SayHayKid
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2022
- Messages
- 230
I came back to Civ3 recently after not having played the game for well over a decade. I bought a new M2 Macbook Air, and since it only has passive cooling, I was looking for older games that I could play. Plus, Mac is not traditionally a gaming platform. The first problem was that all the old Mac games were no longer compatible with either the new OS or Apple Silicon, but I have had success with using WINE in the past to get old Windows games to run. So, after a lot of research and tinkering I managed to get the GoG version of C3C to install.
I stumbled across Suede’s videos on Youtube and I was hooked again. I played several games and was kicking butt consistently at Emperor, but mostly following the same script every game. So, I started trying random everything, but then I realized the balance was off with some Civs and outside of a poor starting position, the game play was still mostly the same from game to game. Then I remembered the Civfanatics forum. I stumbled across Mod Patch Suggestions, Skipper’s Tweaks, and a couple other threads with basic balancing tweaks and started creating my first mod, called "House Rules", incorporating many of these ideas.
After a few games everything was good, but I still noticed I was following the same script regardless of the Civ or start that I played. Rapid expansion, Republic slingshot, build the same buildings, same Wonders, etc. So, I wanted to go bigger and add variety and replayability. Then I stumbled across the large mod packs like Rhye’s, RAR, CCM, and Worldwide and was blown away. Then I started getting really ambitious. I liked various aspects of the different mods so I started creating my own for internal use aggregating these ideas. And that is where I am today. I have planned out all the changes in spreadsheets, collected all (errr most of the graphics), and now I am in the process of putting it all together.
TL;DR
I came back to Civ3 after over a decade. It is one of my all-time favorite games, along with the Baldur’s Gate series, that I always come back to. As much as I loved the epic game I got tired of following the same script every game, so I started researching other mods and stealing (err borrowing) others’ ideas and aggregating into my “House Rules” mod.
I have planned out all the changes, new units, new buildings, new civs, etc. in a spreadsheet and collected most of the graphics and other resources. I wanted to create a preview post for the 10 players who still play Civ3 as a way to keep motivated to finish this huge undertaking. I am not doing anything new that other great mods haven’t previously done, I am just aggregating the ideas I found most interesting.
My main goals are to have gameplay variety from game to game so that I am not always following the same script, to get a different experience with different Civs, and to slow down expansion and extend the ancient era. I also realized that I really like Archipelago or Continents with lots of water and the seafaring aspects of the game (limited as they are). So, I boosted production in coastal cities with new improvements and wonders and did a major overhaul of Naval Units inspired by RAR.
After playing CCM2 over the holidays I was inspired to add unique wonders for each CIV and unique religions. This really enhances the replayability. I also was never enamored with the Space Race. I liked the idea of winning the tech race as a victory condition and I like the movie, but Space Race as an ultimate goal didn’t seem current. Then I came across Worldwide mod and learned I could change the Space Race to something else. I really liked the idea of becoming a Global Hegemony or Superpower.
A few of the original Civs seem to overlap with others or be less interesting or memorable. I wanted to balance the culture groups by bringing in some of the popular CIVs other modders have incorporated.
Removed
Inspired by CCM and hating how once I went Republic early in the game, I never switched governments again, I decided to give every CIV the religious trait. I also reworked the tech tree so each starting tech aligns with a specific trait for each CIV. The first row of the tech tree is not tradeable.
Most of the traditional Great Wonders are still available to ALL CIVs, but some have become CIV specific and several new ones added so each CIV has a unique Great Wonder
Arabia Ishtar Gate
Aztecs Temple of the Sun
Babylon Hammurabi's Code
Carthage The Harbor of Carthage
Celts Stonehenge
China The Forbidden City
Egypt The Sphinx
England Westminster Palace
Ethiopia Obelisk of Axum
France Arc de Triomphe
Germany Brandenburg Gate
Greece The Collosus
Incans Machu Picchu
India Taj Mahal
Iroquois Iriquois Confederation
Japan Himeji Castle
Khmer Angkor Wat
Mali Great Mosque of Djenné
Mayans Temple of Kukulcán
Mongols Storm of the Steppes
Netherlands Dutch East India Company
Ottomans Selimiye Mosque or Topkapi Palace
Persia Palace of Darius
Rome The Limes
Russia St. Basil's Cathedral
Scandinavia Jomsborg
Siam Ayutthaya
Sioux The Great Spirit
Spain Spanish Treasure Fleet
USA Statue of Liberty
Zulu Fortress of Great Zimbabwe
Each CIV gets a starting tech for a religious trait: Blood Cult, Buddishm, Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. Each religion gets their own version of a cathedral after building a temple: Sacrificial Altar, Monastery, Cathedral, Mosque, and Mandir. Each religion also gets two religious Great Wonders (maybe one should be a small wonder). One doubles the effect of the unique religious improvement and builds a religious unit that converts (aka enslave). The other adds the unique religious improvement to each city.
Inspired by the Worldwide mod the idea I added several improvements associated with a resource and added the replaces other flag. This way each city can be a little unique instead of following the same build pattern every game.
The plan is to replace the Space Race by becoming a Superpower or Global Hegemony. The RAND Corp Small Wonder was added to start Civs down this path. From there they have to build: Reserve Currency, Agri-Industry, International Energy Conglomerate, Global Financial Firm, Aerospace Industry, Media Conglomerate, Manufacturing Conglomerate, Particle Accelerator (Advanced Scientific Research), Apollo Mission, and Mars Landing.
Once I started going down the Global Hegemony path and after I decided to give every CIV the religious trait, I started to reconsider how culture works. I am a builder at heart and love a good 20k game with the Babylonians. But within the scope of the game mechanics and the other changes I am thinking about making Culture function as "global power" towards becoming a Global Super Power. Culture outside of a victory condition serves mainly to expand your borders, but historically border expansion seems to be more related to military might, financial might, and scientific might.
So, I am thinking about removing or reducing culture from religious buildings and having them function instead primarily as happiness buildings. Improvements related to the Global Hegemony components like banking, production, military, etc. will have increased culture (aka global influence). The only hiccup is that it essentially removes proper culture victories as an option. Thoughts?
After watching Suede’s videos on Youtube, I pretty much would do the Republic slingshot and stay there every game. It seemed weird to me to change to an Ancient Era government and never progress as Civilization over hundreds or thousands of years. So, after reading through some discussions I am trying to tweak the governments, but it is definitely an area I am less knowledgeable about.
**I have been thinking of maybe going in the opposite direction and reducing government options. If with 2 turn anarch will the AI or even human player take advantage of all these slightly varied governments? Instead maybe I'll looking a war time and peace time government for the first three areas with science rate, tile bonus, etc. improving each area.
Anarchy
Corruption: Catastrophic
Tech / Worker: 100% / 50%
DR / MP: 0 / 0
Cost / Free: -
Size: -
Hurry / War Weariness: Impossible / None
Maintenance: -
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: N / Y
Despotism
Corruption: Rampant
Tech / Worker: 50% / 50%
DR / MP: 2 / 2
Cost / Free: 1 / 0
Size: 2/2/2
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Monarchy
Corruption: Nusissance
Tech / Worker: 80% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 3
Cost / Free: 1 / 4
Size: 2/4/4
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / Low
Maintenance: Y
Tile: -
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Communism
Corruption: Communal
Tech / Worker: 90% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 4
Cost / Free: 2 / 4
Size: 6/6/6
Hurry / War Weariness: Paid / Low
Maintenance: Y
Tile: -
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Republic
Corruption: Problematic
Tech / Worker: 80% / 100%
DR / MP: 1 / 2
Cost / Free: 2 / 4
Size: 2/3/3
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / High
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: Y / N
Democracy
Corruption: Minimal
Tech / Worker: 100% / 150%
DR / MP: 1 / 0
Cost / Free: 3 / 3
Size: 1/2/2
Hurry / War Weariness: Paid / High
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Bonus
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Fascism
Corruption: Problematic
Tech / Worker: 90% / 150%
DR / MP: 2 / 4
Cost / Free: 2 / 6
Size: 5/6/6
Hurry / War Weariness: Paid / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Bonus
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Theocracy
Corruption: Problematic
Tech / Worker: 70% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 4
Cost / Free: 1 / 6
Size: 3/3/3
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Both
Xeno / Resettle: Y / N
City-State
Corruption: Rampant
Tech / Worker: 70% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 2
Cost / Free: 1 / 4
Size: 5/2/2
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Libertarianism
Corruption: Communal
Tech / Worker: 100% / 200%
DR / MP: 0 / 0
Cost / Free: 6 / 3
Size: 0/1/1
Hurry / War Weariness: Impossible / High
Maintenance: N
Tile: Bonus
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
To add more variety each government type has a unique SW and GW. I also hate the way corruption is implemented so I wanted to add a third FP type building.
Small Wonders
These all act as a third FP plus other small benefits. However, I saw another idea that I really liked in MEM where you would capture "royal titles" as you captured the capitals of other Civs. I might instead do something similar and remove the Government Gas or give them different benefits.
I stumbled across Suede’s videos on Youtube and I was hooked again. I played several games and was kicking butt consistently at Emperor, but mostly following the same script every game. So, I started trying random everything, but then I realized the balance was off with some Civs and outside of a poor starting position, the game play was still mostly the same from game to game. Then I remembered the Civfanatics forum. I stumbled across Mod Patch Suggestions, Skipper’s Tweaks, and a couple other threads with basic balancing tweaks and started creating my first mod, called "House Rules", incorporating many of these ideas.
After a few games everything was good, but I still noticed I was following the same script regardless of the Civ or start that I played. Rapid expansion, Republic slingshot, build the same buildings, same Wonders, etc. So, I wanted to go bigger and add variety and replayability. Then I stumbled across the large mod packs like Rhye’s, RAR, CCM, and Worldwide and was blown away. Then I started getting really ambitious. I liked various aspects of the different mods so I started creating my own for internal use aggregating these ideas. And that is where I am today. I have planned out all the changes in spreadsheets, collected all (errr most of the graphics), and now I am in the process of putting it all together.
TL;DR
I came back to Civ3 after over a decade. It is one of my all-time favorite games, along with the Baldur’s Gate series, that I always come back to. As much as I loved the epic game I got tired of following the same script every game, so I started researching other mods and stealing (err borrowing) others’ ideas and aggregating into my “House Rules” mod.
I have planned out all the changes, new units, new buildings, new civs, etc. in a spreadsheet and collected most of the graphics and other resources. I wanted to create a preview post for the 10 players who still play Civ3 as a way to keep motivated to finish this huge undertaking. I am not doing anything new that other great mods haven’t previously done, I am just aggregating the ideas I found most interesting.
Spoiler GENERAL GAMEPLAY AND INSPIRATION :
My main goals are to have gameplay variety from game to game so that I am not always following the same script, to get a different experience with different Civs, and to slow down expansion and extend the ancient era. I also realized that I really like Archipelago or Continents with lots of water and the seafaring aspects of the game (limited as they are). So, I boosted production in coastal cities with new improvements and wonders and did a major overhaul of Naval Units inspired by RAR.
After playing CCM2 over the holidays I was inspired to add unique wonders for each CIV and unique religions. This really enhances the replayability. I also was never enamored with the Space Race. I liked the idea of winning the tech race as a victory condition and I like the movie, but Space Race as an ultimate goal didn’t seem current. Then I came across Worldwide mod and learned I could change the Space Race to something else. I really liked the idea of becoming a Global Hegemony or Superpower.
Spoiler NEW CIVS :
A few of the original Civs seem to overlap with others or be less interesting or memorable. I wanted to balance the culture groups by bringing in some of the popular CIVs other modders have incorporated.
Removed
- Byzantine
- Hittites
- Korea
- Portugal
- Sumeria
- Ethiopia
- Khmer
- Mali
- Siam
- Sioux
Spoiler CIV TRAITS :
Inspired by CCM and hating how once I went Republic early in the game, I never switched governments again, I decided to give every CIV the religious trait. I also reworked the tech tree so each starting tech aligns with a specific trait for each CIV. The first row of the tech tree is not tradeable.
- Agricultural = Pottery
- Commercial = The Wheel
- Expansionist = Masonry
- Industrious = Mining
- Militaristic = Warrior Code
- Scientific = Writing
- Seafaring = The Sail
Spoiler UNIQUE CIV GREAT WONDERS :
Most of the traditional Great Wonders are still available to ALL CIVs, but some have become CIV specific and several new ones added so each CIV has a unique Great Wonder
Arabia Ishtar Gate
Aztecs Temple of the Sun
Babylon Hammurabi's Code
Carthage The Harbor of Carthage
Celts Stonehenge
China The Forbidden City
Egypt The Sphinx
England Westminster Palace
Ethiopia Obelisk of Axum
France Arc de Triomphe
Germany Brandenburg Gate
Greece The Collosus
Incans Machu Picchu
India Taj Mahal
Iroquois Iriquois Confederation
Japan Himeji Castle
Khmer Angkor Wat
Mali Great Mosque of Djenné
Mayans Temple of Kukulcán
Mongols Storm of the Steppes
Netherlands Dutch East India Company
Ottomans Selimiye Mosque or Topkapi Palace
Persia Palace of Darius
Rome The Limes
Russia St. Basil's Cathedral
Scandinavia Jomsborg
Siam Ayutthaya
Sioux The Great Spirit
Spain Spanish Treasure Fleet
USA Statue of Liberty
Zulu Fortress of Great Zimbabwe
Spoiler RELIGIOUS TRAITS :
Each CIV gets a starting tech for a religious trait: Blood Cult, Buddishm, Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. Each religion gets their own version of a cathedral after building a temple: Sacrificial Altar, Monastery, Cathedral, Mosque, and Mandir. Each religion also gets two religious Great Wonders (maybe one should be a small wonder). One doubles the effect of the unique religious improvement and builds a religious unit that converts (aka enslave). The other adds the unique religious improvement to each city.
Spoiler UNIQUE CITY IMPROVEMENTS :
Inspired by the Worldwide mod the idea I added several improvements associated with a resource and added the replaces other flag. This way each city can be a little unique instead of following the same build pattern every game.
Spoiler GLOBAL HEGEMONY :
The plan is to replace the Space Race by becoming a Superpower or Global Hegemony. The RAND Corp Small Wonder was added to start Civs down this path. From there they have to build: Reserve Currency, Agri-Industry, International Energy Conglomerate, Global Financial Firm, Aerospace Industry, Media Conglomerate, Manufacturing Conglomerate, Particle Accelerator (Advanced Scientific Research), Apollo Mission, and Mars Landing.
Spoiler CULTURE AS GLOBAL INFLUENCE :
Once I started going down the Global Hegemony path and after I decided to give every CIV the religious trait, I started to reconsider how culture works. I am a builder at heart and love a good 20k game with the Babylonians. But within the scope of the game mechanics and the other changes I am thinking about making Culture function as "global power" towards becoming a Global Super Power. Culture outside of a victory condition serves mainly to expand your borders, but historically border expansion seems to be more related to military might, financial might, and scientific might.
So, I am thinking about removing or reducing culture from religious buildings and having them function instead primarily as happiness buildings. Improvements related to the Global Hegemony components like banking, production, military, etc. will have increased culture (aka global influence). The only hiccup is that it essentially removes proper culture victories as an option. Thoughts?
Spoiler GOVERNMENTS :
After watching Suede’s videos on Youtube, I pretty much would do the Republic slingshot and stay there every game. It seemed weird to me to change to an Ancient Era government and never progress as Civilization over hundreds or thousands of years. So, after reading through some discussions I am trying to tweak the governments, but it is definitely an area I am less knowledgeable about.
**I have been thinking of maybe going in the opposite direction and reducing government options. If with 2 turn anarch will the AI or even human player take advantage of all these slightly varied governments? Instead maybe I'll looking a war time and peace time government for the first three areas with science rate, tile bonus, etc. improving each area.
Anarchy
Corruption: Catastrophic
Tech / Worker: 100% / 50%
DR / MP: 0 / 0
Cost / Free: -
Size: -
Hurry / War Weariness: Impossible / None
Maintenance: -
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: N / Y
Despotism
Corruption: Rampant
Tech / Worker: 50% / 50%
DR / MP: 2 / 2
Cost / Free: 1 / 0
Size: 2/2/2
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Monarchy
Corruption: Nusissance
Tech / Worker: 80% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 3
Cost / Free: 1 / 4
Size: 2/4/4
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / Low
Maintenance: Y
Tile: -
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Communism
Corruption: Communal
Tech / Worker: 90% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 4
Cost / Free: 2 / 4
Size: 6/6/6
Hurry / War Weariness: Paid / Low
Maintenance: Y
Tile: -
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Republic
Corruption: Problematic
Tech / Worker: 80% / 100%
DR / MP: 1 / 2
Cost / Free: 2 / 4
Size: 2/3/3
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / High
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: Y / N
Democracy
Corruption: Minimal
Tech / Worker: 100% / 150%
DR / MP: 1 / 0
Cost / Free: 3 / 3
Size: 1/2/2
Hurry / War Weariness: Paid / High
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Bonus
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Fascism
Corruption: Problematic
Tech / Worker: 90% / 150%
DR / MP: 2 / 4
Cost / Free: 2 / 6
Size: 5/6/6
Hurry / War Weariness: Paid / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Bonus
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Theocracy
Corruption: Problematic
Tech / Worker: 70% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 4
Cost / Free: 1 / 6
Size: 3/3/3
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Both
Xeno / Resettle: Y / N
City-State
Corruption: Rampant
Tech / Worker: 70% / 100%
DR / MP: 2 / 2
Cost / Free: 1 / 4
Size: 5/2/2
Hurry / War Weariness: Forced / None
Maintenance: Y
Tile: Penalty
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Libertarianism
Corruption: Communal
Tech / Worker: 100% / 200%
DR / MP: 0 / 0
Cost / Free: 6 / 3
Size: 0/1/1
Hurry / War Weariness: Impossible / High
Maintenance: N
Tile: Bonus
Xeno / Resettle: N / N
Spoiler GOVERNMENT SMALL AND GREAT WONDERS :
To add more variety each government type has a unique SW and GW. I also hate the way corruption is implemented so I wanted to add a third FP type building.
Small Wonders
- Acropolis = City-State
- House of Parliament = Constitutional Monarchy
- Custom House = Absolute Monarchy
- Five Year Plan = Communism
- Palace Guard = Feudalism
- Roman Senate = Republic
- Royal Tournament = Monarchy
- Secret Police HQ = Facism
- Universal Suffrage = Democracy
- Universal Healthcare = Social Democracy
These all act as a third FP plus other small benefits. However, I saw another idea that I really liked in MEM where you would capture "royal titles" as you captured the capitals of other Civs. I might instead do something similar and remove the Government Gas or give them different benefits.
- Supreme Court = Democracy
- Triumph of the People = Communism
- Estates General = Absolute Monarchy
- Magna Carta = Constitutional Monarchy
- Magna Carta = Feudalism
- New Deal = Social Democracy
- Ministry of Truth = Fascism
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