Going for Gold: Units

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?


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Then, if land ranged promotions are fine, that's because having extra range and earlier medic and indirect fire makes it up for not having logistics.
What do we have in naval ranged, +50% to city damage? If bombardment is being equipped with big large and slow cannons, then range and more raw power vs static targets makes sense. But I wonder if the extra range is wasted in an unit with already high mobility. Ranged naval are like sea skirmishers...

Is it possible to buff the extra range promotion with indirect fire? Just for naval?
 
Naval doesn't get an extra range promotion. It doesn't get an indirect fire promotion either.
 
It would also be trivial to introduce a promotion attribute that checked for unit level for availability. @civplayer33 might kill me, though, as that would break the conditional logic in his promo viewer.

G
Yeah that would mean a lot of rewriting...

I don't have the time to play right now, but how are people finding the change to the submarine promotions? We had the same problem there, with Logistics being too strong, and attempted a fix by significantly strengthening the other side of the tree, such that it should now be worth taking, with significantly more damage than the Logistics line before Logistics is reached and easier autonomy (which is important for loner subs), which makes up for lower damage once the subs of the other line have reached Logistics. The key here was to think about the roles that a submarine can fill, with the loner sub needing more maneuverability and (fore)sight, because it needs to evade groups of enemy ships as much as possible.

So, since we're talking about a single unit class here (naval ranged surface ships), it would be worth thinking about that unit class and its roles specifically, instead of about Logistics in general. Personally I do build Bombardment ships, though in relatively small numbers, because they'll give me access to higher city damage right away, instead of needing to be promoted to level 5 first. Also keep in mind that Military Academies come fairly late in the game and thus there is a good chunk of game time where one won't have a fleet with level 5 ships, so I wouldn't say that giving no ship Bombardment is a good strategy; however, since it might not happen often that I besiege 2 or more cities from the sea at the same time, 2 - 4 Bombardment line ships will usually be enough to have that extra punch for besieging a city.
Maybe this is the problem: the Bombardment line's niche is simply too narrow. So how about this:

Proposal (TL;DR):

Make the lines conform to anti-land and anti-sea, respectively; i.e. take anti-land unit damage bonus away from Targeting and give it to Bombardment; that way we widen the niche of Bombardment to be a general purpose anti-land ship and weaken Targeting at the same time.

Potential issues:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only other unit class that uses Targeting is subs and they can't attack land units anyway with their main attack, so it won't have any side effects in that sense and Bombardment, I think, is only taken by naval ranged surface ships, so no problem there, either.
That leaves possible implementation troubles; I don't know if direct boost to damage against certain domains is possible, so it would likely have to be implemented with a malus against domain, which means increasing overall strength first for the Bombardment line (and then giving it the anti-sea malus), while for Targeting it should suffice to give it an anti-land and anti-city malus, if that's possible. Here the subs would see their anti-city damage lowered a bit, but they aren't exactly the unit of choice for besieging cities anyway and since they already get an anti-city malus natively, that could simply be lowered a bit to compensate.
This change would synergize with the Shrapnel Rounds promo, which increases anti-land damage in the Bombardment line, as well.

Edit: If needed, since the Targeting line gets an extra promo over the Bombardment line anyway, we could add Bombardment III to the prereq's for Splash Damage (make Splash Damage appear on both sides of the tree).
Spoiler current tree for reference :
Promo_Tree_Naval_Ranged_Units.jpg
If this change is implemented we should probably test the actual effect this has in the game with respect to relative damage because the damage formula can be a bit unintuitive to think about as I noticed when testing submarines a while ago.
 
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Remember that too much specialization is not AI friendly.
The proposed change arguably decreases specialization, though, since it widens the currently very narrow niche of Bombardment ships, making them less specialized.
 
I don't understand your comment.
The change I proposed (moving the land damage bonus from Targeting to Bombardment) will make the lines more different, which you expressed preference for, in the sense that instead of having one very general line that will make up the bulk of the fleet and one highly specialized line that is rarely picked and doesn't add much value over the other, you'd now have two lines that are both less general than Targeting is currently but much more general than Bombardment is currently, so it will greatly decrease the specialization of the Bombardment line, which is currently only filling the niche of sea siege unit in relatively low level armies; with the change the Bombardment ships would have a general land bombardment purpose, not just against city tiles but also against land units on the shores, and the Targeting ships would be more useful against other ships. A damage assessment should be done, however, to see if the Bombardment line really has a significant edge over the Targeting line when it comes to land unit bombardment, especially once the Targeting ships reach Logistics.

@Gazebo: does the Land unit damage currently given with Targeting count against embarked land units as well? Just curious as that would have implications as well, of course.
 
I was curious how cruise missiles are doing nowadays. Are people finding them useful?
 
I was curious how cruise missiles are doing nowadays. Are people finding them useful?

They come way too late for most people to test them. Usually, the game is decided so you won't even see their contribution in combat. My game usually crashes by then, I raged due to how long each turns are or I build them just for the fun.
 
I've been thinking that the Rifleman could use some love. It doesn't really do anything well. It still gets its butt kicked by Gatling Guns and Landships, and it no longer has the 50% bonus vs mounted, meaning that its actually about the same as the Fusilier at dealing with lancers and Calvary, which I find is still a decent battlefield present at this time in the game.

I think it should get the 50% mounted bonus back, and might even do with a few more CS bump.

Thoughts?
 
To me, I would say that the Infantry line should be your preferred means of dealing with the Tank line, not Bazookas or Ricket Artillery. Helicopter Gunships bonus vs Tanks is fine to me. I don't know what others think about changing the bonus Units have vs Tanks. Of course, Bazookas and Rocket Artillery bonus are only on the offense and can be run over by Tanks still.

Rifleman and Infantry don't seem particularly note worthy to me. Mechanized Infantry are actually pretty good with their 3 Movement. Mobility is a great Promotion for Melee and Gunpowder Units to take to make for their 2 Movement.
 
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