[NFP] Good and necessary small tweak, not overhaul, not castration of 1UPT

[Mik1984]

1UPT has so many noisy haters creating one thread after another about how "1UPT sucks" and how to get rid of it. Most proposed changes to 1UPT are about how to castrate 1UPT in some way or get around its primary purpose = to make battles take place over a territory or later, over frontlines and not over a few doomstacked tiles.
Here are the two changes:
1. Open (or unenforceable) borders allows for same stacking of combat and non-combat units as possible between units owned by the same player. Beware that you can't block the setter with your warrior now.There are multiple reasons from that, from city states blocking Himiko with their units to that pesky neutral combat unit loitering around your territory and frustrating your builders.
2. Recon and Naval Raider and Hero units gain the ability of "Ghosting". That is the ability of occupying the same tile as another non-hostile combat unit if that other non-hostile combat unit is inside its own territory. However should the non-hostile unit that you are stacking with be destroyed by an enemy, who is also hostile to you, your unit also gets automatically destroyed. Otherwise, a "ghosting" unit is only vulnerable to area wide effects. Also a unit in "ghosting" mode cannot perform ranged attacks, it just stands on the tile like a ghost.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Number 1: YES, YES, YES, YES, YES. Do you know how useful number one would be? We need it.

 

[Mik1984]

I know, the first is a must have.It doesn't castrate how 1UPT was supposed to be played, just removed useless frustration.
The 2. is something that is supposed to make open borders a little less frustrating for exploration with a scout as well as a nice immersion touch for these unit classes, especially for recon units, that seem not the most useful ones past the first scout. ALSO with change no.1 a builder with 1 build left in mid-early and later game is now a better scout than a scout. This sort of catches up to that and makes it a non-issue.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Most proposed changes to 1UPT are about how to castrate 1UPT in some way or get around its primary purpose = to make battles take place over a territory or later, over frontlines and not over a few doomstacked tiles.

First of all, I want to say how much I appreciate someone wanting to make improvements to 1UPT without just throwing it out the window. Bully for you.

That said, I think the "ghosting" idea is a little complicated and I think something simpler would be in order. Perhaps recon units could occupy whichever layer is available, whether civilian or military, so long as the other unit isn't hostile. I also think they shouldn't be destroyed automatically when another military unit is destroyed, though I can understand how that could be used to make them a fairly annoying obstacle during conquest.

 

[Mik1984]

First of all, I want to say how much I appreciate someone wanting to make improvements to 1UPT without just throwing it out the window. Bully for you.

That said, I think the "ghosting" idea is a little complicated and I think something simpler would be in order. Perhaps recon units could occupy whichever layer is available, whether civilian or military, so long as the other unit isn't hostile. I also think they shouldn't be destroyed automatically when another military unit is destroyed, though I can understand how that could be used to make them a fairly annoying obstacle during conquest.

Thank you for kudos.

Whether you place the recon unit into the "ghosting" layer or any given free layer is not very much of a substantial difference, except what about moving a builder or setter now, if scout already chose that layer? It would cause further issues that need more resolving. If adding an extra "ghosting" layer is not an option, you could consider that. Furthermore, I do not want to overbuff these units by allowing them to stack as they want, because that not only overbuffs them, but it also subverts 1UPT. These units have ranged attacks later.

This is only supposed to be reserved for stacking with non-hostile units in their respective territories. And it is supposed to work one way, only the "ghosting" ability unit can walk into a tile for a stack. That is also why the civ 1 stacking rules also follow, in order to discourage it further(top unit destroyed = all units destroyed). Because it is your choice to do so. The block for attacks is a further necessary protection of 1UPT.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Thank you for kudos.

Because it is your choice to do so. The block for attacks is a further necessary protection of 1UPT.

You're welcome.

I get ya, I get ya. Maybe it would be best to keep recon units on the military layer. It may give builders an odd scouting utility, but I don't know if that would be such a big deal. I think keeping things easy to understand is more important than keeping all cheese out of the game. At the very least, we can all agree on the first point. Letting non-hostile civilizations stack civilian and military units would be a great convenience, even in the early game when you're trying to move builders or settlers through rough terrain and city state units are messing you up.

 

[Mik1984]

You're welcome.

I get ya, I get ya. Maybe it would be best to keep recon units on the military layer. It may give builders an odd scouting utility, but I don't know if that would be such a big deal. I think keeping things easy to understand is more important than keeping all cheese out of the game. At the very least, we can all agree on the first point. Letting non-hostile civilizations stack civilian and military units would be a great convenience, even in the early game when you're trying to move builders or settlers through rough terrain and city state units are messing you up.

I would settle for the first update to go into the base game, and "ghosting" to be an additional optional game mode.

 

[PaperPaulo]

I would like to change the cap by +1UPT for a total of 4UPT, it would require another tier prior to Corps at Mercenaries Civic (Medieval Era).
This tier would allow same as current Corps allows (2UPT), while new Corps would allow same as current Army allows (3UPT), and new Army would allow more than current Army allows (4UPT)
Basic Unit -> Corps/Fleet -> Army/Armada would change into Basic Unit -> Guard/Patrol -> Corps/Fleet -> Army/Armada

Abilities of Both Shaka and Zulu should change to reflect this additional tier of unit stacking
Shaka -> Would gain +5 Strength for Guards, +10 Strength for Corps and +15 Strength for Armies instead of earlier Corps/Armies plus +5 Strength for Corps and Armies
Zulu -> Additionally can upgrade any unit who capture a city into Guard if met the Civics Requirement (other parts of ability remains unchanged)

 

[Mik1984]

I would like to change the cap by +1UPT for a total of 4UPT, it would require another tier prior to Corps at Mercenaries Civic (Medieval Era).
This tier would allow same as current Corps allows (2UPT), while new Corps would allow same as current Army allows (3UPT), and new Army would allow more than current Army allows (4UPT)
Basic Unit -> Corps/Fleet -> Army/Armada would change into Basic Unit -> Guard/Patrol -> Corps/Fleet -> Army/Armada

Abilities of Both Shaka and Zulu should change to reflect this additional tier of unit stacking
Shaka -> Would gain +5 Strength for Guards, +10 Strength for Corps and +15 Strength for Armies instead of earlier Corps/Armies plus +5 Strength for Corps and Armies
Zulu -> Additionally can upgrade any unit who capture a city into Guard if met the Civics Requirement (other parts of ability remains unchanged)

I would rather completely get rid of armies, corpses and fleets as a stacking mechanism and replace it with something like Xcom2 soldier's bonds between units, where a corps or an army is group of units that simply passes supporting bonuses to each other if operating in vicinity. More power to 1UPT, not less.
By special bonuses I don't just mean boring extra flanking bonuses, but interesting special abilities. Like adjacent melee fighting units intercepting melee attacks against a range unit, if they have movement left, ranged units if haven't fired last turn might provide one cover fire, panzer general style, or recon units can add +1 firing range and extra damage by being just adjacent to the target as a forward observer. A cavalry unit and an anti-cavalry unit can perform a hammer and anvil move, when they both simultaneously attack one target they are adjacent to, but while not being adjacent to each other. There is a lot of options, while still sticking to 1UPT.
But as to say, this is not a small idea, it would be a giant expansion pack at least. Though I would admit that this would severely increase the so called "cognitive load" of the game, turning it too much into a geek game, and AI would probably never learn to use these mechanics properly anyway.
But final word, is a big NO to the original idea, that is a castration of 1UPT and current system is better than what is being proposed.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I would rather completely get rid of armies, corpses and fleets as a stacking mechanism and replace it with something like Xcom2 soldier's bonds between units, where a corps or an army is group of units that simply passes supporting bonuses to each other if operating in vicinity. More power to 1UPT, not less.

So I take it you're not a fan of the Zombie Mode as well?

 

[Mik1984]

So I take it you're not a fan of the Zombie Mode as well?

Nope, not really.