GOTM 09: Pre-Game discussion

[Thrallia]

Gold isn't that common in a starting location and this is the 2nd GOTM in a row that gold has been there. I wouldn't want to actually accuse anyone of anything , but you might consider the possibility that that Gold isn't a natural occurance. If not then it's less likely there's more of it around.

But that is a good point, it's well worth checking North with the quecha before settling in place.

last GOTM we started out with one, but I had the other two hills next to it 'discover' gold before 1000BC. That and the adventurer bonus may have slightly skewed my dominance over the AI

Polytheism is usually safer since fewer AI's seem to go for it. Neither one is guaranteed though. If you are going for it, make sure you are working a gold-generating tile during those turns.

I never go for buddhism because it seems like it is preferred by every spiritual AI except for Saladin and Huayna.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Holy Barbarians, Batman!

Wow... that was a massive onslaught!

 

[Tech Step]

well I am going to use the oracle to get monarchy to offset the unhappiness, that makes the wine worthwhile.

think about why it is there. Monarchy is begging to be gotten.

 

[DaviddesJ]

well I am going to use the oracle to getmonarchy to offset the inhappiness, that makes the wine worthwhile.

If you build your capital with the wine outside your fat cross, you'll still get it within your cultural borders by 1720 BC. Are you planning to get Monarchy before then??

As a tile to work, the wine is no better than a floodplain/cottage.

 

[bshumbera]

I've been playing that simulated start file for the last few hours and am managing to hang around... just barely though. I quickly rushed three UU to Louis' land and captured a settler. I razed all of the city improvements in his fat cross and then fortified in a forrest adjacent to his capital. He spent the next several turns sending archers out and giving XP to my UUs. I eventually had to peace treaty to bring my units back to the capital to help deal with the barb onslaught. It's 875AD now, but I still only have my capital. I once founded a second city, but the barbs quickly razed it. I was then able to capture a barb city with a stack of swords, but Louis quickly took it because I moved my stack away to take another barb city. Guess I shouldn't have ticked off Louis early on It's looking more and more like I'll have to take the Adventurer's bonus on this difficulty.

 

[Thrallia]

DaviddesJ, I think Tech Step meant that he wanted to be able to make a winery on it to increase his happiness limit, not to get it for commerce or anything.

 

[Jastrow]

Otherwise I will probably settle in place and hope for the best, making the sheep a high priority for health reasons.

Isn't Sheep a hapiness resource (not health)? At least, that is what the manual says. I have not had a chance to fire up the game to check.

 

[Thrallia]

I think sheep is health, since it is a food resource.

 

[Jastrow]

Is sheep representing food? Or wool? Which, like silk, would be a happiness resource.

 

[Thrallia]

according to the Civilopedia, Sheep gives +1 food, adding a pasture gives +2 food, +1 commerce, and effects are +1 health.

 

[Thrallia]

ok...I just played up to 2300BC on that start...I wasn't trying to do anything except check out the barbs and worker stealing...

Elizabeth was protecting her worker with an archer, but I went ahead and declared war...lost my first quechua on her archer, and they both retreated into her city, where I camped my second quechua outside on a forested hill.

That didn't help, as my quechua only took down one of her archers before dying.

I didn't get to declare war on Louis, because the 3 quechuas I sent toward him all got bogged down in the jungle/forest on the way up to him thanks to a glut of barb animals. By 2600BC, I had already seen 2 barb warriors, but killed them both. Then a bar archer appeared near Cuzco(luckily I saw it 4 spaces away because of my culture) He ignored my city, but happily went after my quechuas and the scout I popped from a hut.

By 2300BC, I'd lost 3 units to barbs, 2 to vicky, had one city, no workers, and had only managed to research Poly, Mining, Wheel, AH. Oh yeah, and I still saw 6 bar units around my remaining troops.

 

[DaveMcW]

Good point. I'd feel pretty stupid settling in place, or 1W or 2W, if it turns out there's another gold just north of what we can see.

I'm not a big fan of working multiple gold tiles in the capital. They give a nice boost in the short term, but in the long term cottages are better. The only thing that could convince me to move W,NW (or W or W,W) is more food resources.

 

[jesusin]

Floodplains, gold and quechuas on Emperor!!!! What is left for the Inmotal and Deity games, then? I expected to have this start at Deity.

I won't be pillaging with my quechuas. I want the AI to set up well developped cities for me.

I'm not sure about producing a settler. It would be nice to not produce a single one in the whole game, taking AI cities instead. But I fear that lack of production in the capital will slow down my quechua birth rate. Poprushing quechuas is not very effective, either.

For me, August+Epic is a bad combination. I hope I will have the time to complete the game when I am back to my computer. What can be the quickest real-time plan? Culture again? Conquering the continent and pressing enter till the ship is completed?

 

[CliftonBazaar]

EPIC???

This turns the game from an enjoyable experiance into a boring slug-a-thon (man V AI, man also V boredom).

James

 

[Don Vito]

EPIC???

This turns the game from an enjoyable experiance into a boring slug-a-thon (man V AI, man also V boredom).

Stop whining, some of us LOVE the slow speeds. I usually play MARATHON speed at home.

Epic =

 

[DaviddesJ]

I'm not a big fan of working multiple gold tiles in the capital. They give a nice boost in the short term, but in the long term cottages are better. The only thing that could convince me to move W,NW (or W or W,W) is more food resources.

Isn't the short term a lot more important than the long term? 3h+8c seems awfully good, compared to 3f+(4-5)c, for the phase of the game when we're able to work only a half-dozen tiles, or less.

Food is always good, but I would argue we're already looking at +6 food, with no farms; perhaps another food resource is not so important.

 

[Jove]

Food is always good, but I would argue we're already looking at +6 food, with no farms; perhaps another food resource is not so important.

But then you're arguing for settling in place, which makes getting the second gold impossible.

I've tried some test starts, it looks like -2 health might not be enough by itself to force a move.

 

[DaviddesJ]

But then you're arguing for settling in place, which makes getting the second gold impossible.

Good point, if you move N to get a 2nd gold then you're going from +7 food to +5 food. That doesn't seem worth it.

If you could get a 2nd gold by moving W, then you would still be at +7 food. But that's not so likely.

 

[mboza]

Good point, if you move N to get a 2nd gold then you're going from +7 food to +5 food. That doesn't seem worth it.

If you could get a 2nd gold by moving W, then you would still be at +7 food. But that's not so likely.

If there are hills to the west of the visible area, would the quecha not be able to see them? So there is no gold in the north half of the fat cross if you move 1W. Could be anything on the other side of the sheep, but I do not think there can be a resorce adjacent to it, so I doubt there is anything in the south half of your new fat cross either.

Of course, you could move the settler NW,SW onto the hill. Gold, sheep, 3FP, and who knows what else. So I think I will start with the quecha moving SW, just to see.

Mining, AH, pottery and BW as my first 4 techs, just need to decide what order.

 

[Big Pig]

Well, I tried out a Quechua rush using the test start (thanks Blub ). Pumped out 5 quechuas initially and headed north to take out Paris (Bud Holy City) and Orleans, wiping out Louis in ~2000BC. Great start
BUT
I was then left with 2 cities both about 20 tiles away from and not connected to my relatively underdeveloped capital resulting in crippling maintenance and a research rate of 10-20%. Lots of frantic cottage building didn't really help this as the currency gains were offset against the cost of having to station Fogbusters outside my empire to reduce the waves of barbs and my research is limping along.

I'd be interested to hear the views of the good players on here on the benefits of the quechua rush, particularly if the enemies cities aren't close by. Sure, I've knocked out a rival already, but only at the expense of crippling my own research. Perhaps I'd have been better razing the cities, or instead using a few quechuas to pillage and harry a couple of opponents to slow their development while I consolidated mine? Or ignoring quechua altogether (although that does seem a waste of a UU)?