I think what is probably confusing him is when you first build a cottage and do not have a citizen working that tile, if you hover the mouse over the tile it says "city must work to become a hamlet" or something to that effect. If you then work that tile for one turn and then take the citizen off again the tooltip will say "will become a hamlet in 14 turns". So it appears that the cottage is growing when it really isn't. If you were to end-turn it would stil say "will become a hamlet in 14 turns" until you start working that tile again.
GOTM 10 Second Spoiler
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
andybrown65
Chieftain
Thanks Shillen and the other dude who's names on page 2, that's what it is - probably lost me the game, I just assumed that if it didn't say xxxx must work to become yyyy it was growing.
Shillen said:
Shillen-sorry I'm a little lame on the tech of posting and can't figure out how to get the right screenshot. I have probably about what you would expect--nearly all of Asoka and most of Hattie losing a city near the junction to Genghis.
Wars--Hattie 395-740 swords and cats mostly very little resistance. Hattie was pretty weak and also at war with Genghis.
Asoka 1154-1370 or so.
Again not too much resistance. A cat stack with a few CR3 grenadiers and some mace and sword which I upgraded when they got to CR3 and pike and elephant for defense.
BTW although I was happy with my game I think we will see some very fast finishes.
As for the start, the gold became visible when I moved the warrior on turn 2 and that is what really caught my eye. The cow was visible on the second settler move, although the rest of the terrain was a little weak. I think the plains hill is really pretty useful, and losing a few turns moving around is overrated. I mean, if you lose 2 turns moving you are still way ahead production wise before your first build. And long term, if you run slavery its probably a wash--you run a 4h tile for net 3h and lose 2 f. Anyway as I really thought the rest of my game was reasonable but nothing special my guess is that the starting city did help me.
godotnut
Inverted Unicycle
I just wanted to thank everyone for all the kind words about my guide! You really make me feel like it was worthwhile.
Ronald
Emperor
GOTM 10 - spoiler
Game plan:
Since I went for culture last month, I wanted to go for a military victory. I only played one immortal game (RB-epic7) and that was a duel size map with just one opponent, but there I was able to get a domination victory quite easily, so I wanted to try a conquest on a larger map.
I settled 1SE of starting. Although the starting place was very good as well, I had several reasons moving 1 SE:
1) It's on a river gives health bonus.
2) gain excess to one more hill. I thought that more hammers would be more important than more food (we had enough with 1 fish, cow and corn)
3) It leaves the second fish to a town in the West (what later turned out to be treasure island)
First build: worker
With all the goodies near by I wanted to work them asap
First research: AH
The cow is the strongest field around, so I wanted to improve that right away
In 3760 BC I made contact with Hatty. That's good and bad news:
Good news because Hatty is a nice neighbour. She trades willingly and can be easily conquered since her cities are usually light on defense.
Bad news because it means she is very close and with her being creative she is very effective in the early land grab.
I also saw a great spot for my next city (red dot). It has cows and ivory, on a hill on a river what do you want more? Well, it turned out later that there were horses too!
Second research: fishing
Production: start warrior, switch to work boat as soon as fishing is researched, then finish warrior
In 3130 BC contact with Asoka. Again good and bad news:
Good news because he is another nice neighbour who trades freely and is usually rather weak on military
Bad news because his research rate is extremely high, so if not taken care early enough he will become a powerhouse due to his tech lead
3rd research: BW (chop and whip)
Production: build another warrior
4th research: writing
Production: settler
Some strategic thoughts about the near future:
I would like to build the oracle and take metall casting as a free tech. Combined with collossus that is a good boost in research and since MC is on the low priority list of the AIs it is more feasible than the usual CS slingshot.
To get to CS quickly, I am planning to use my great prophet to lightbulb it.
After settler, I built a few more warriors to fog gaze and keep barbs away, than I built a library
Settler found Shangai on former mentioned red dot
Research path went: mysticism, medidation, priesthood, wheel, pottery
Around 2500 BC I met Ghengis: This is again good and bad news
Bad news because he is such a bully with lots of military. If I let him grow too big he will be very difficult to handle.
Good news because he can be used very effectively. He is easily convinced to declare war on anybody. So I plan to use him as an ally to keep him busy and let him loose some of his troops on somebody else, weakening him and the others.
In 1390 BC I made contact with Huayna: That's just bad news. He is tough on military, a decent researcher and can't be easily manipulated
In the meantime I started to build stonehenge (before being able to start Oracle) in my capital. I did not expect to finish it, but I was convinced that the oracle will be quite a race to research all the necessary techs for MC, I wanted to use the money to keep research at 100%
This worked out nicely. I got more than 100g for the unfinished stonehenge and was able to finish Oracle and pottery in time to get metal casting for free (985 BC).
Next production: Forge, settler, worker then collossus
next research: alphabeth
This was a mistake: I should have researched hunting before to connect ivory and get the much needed happiness increase.
With alphabeth I traded all the other techs: hunting, archery, mathematics, polytheism and Iron working.
It was a nice surprise that Beijing not only had bronze but iron as well.
In 520 BC I finished the collossus. That gave a substantial increase in commerce. Unfortunately I could not build the great lighthouse, somebody built it before I even could start it.
After alphabeth research was set on CoL (for the courthouses and as a necessary tech for Civil Service)
My empire in 5 AD looks like this:
Hatty beat me to the nice spot east of Shanghai, but since there is a lot of jungle to remove, I let her do the work for me.
After building the Great library in 335 AD, I switched my production to units for the upcoming war with Hatty.
Machinery is due in 4. So it will be maces, war elephants, catapults and Ghengis against Hatty. I expect Ghengis to take out Pi Ramses, I want everything else, especially Memphis, the holy city of Judaism.
In 415 AD I declared war on Hatty with Ghengis as ally. The resistance was not much.
The war went smoothly. The only exception was that Hatty had a settler on a boat and they went to tresaure island, settled there and the galley destroyed some of my fishing vessels before I could stop it.
By 860 AD the war was over. Ghengis was less of a help than expected. He is still busy with Pi Ramses.
In the meantime I met all the other civs: Russia and Persia
Russia is a powerhouse. Good research, lots of land
Persia is very backwards, will be an easy target later on
Research is towards liberalism. I hope to get there first take nationalism as free tech and go for military tradition and cavalry for my next war.
My next opponent will be Ghengis.
I was unsure about who to take on next, Asoka or Ghengis. Asoka would be easier, but I was afraid if I keep Ghengis around too long, he will get more and more difficult to beat, so the tough one first to fall.
In 1000 AD, I was first in score and had my economy built up to prepare for the next war.
I was 3rd in GNP (close to number 1, 2nd in manufactured goods, 1st in crop yield, but still 6th in soldiers. Ghengis was the most powerful civ around.
In 1202 I have established a nice SOD to invade Ghengis
but before the actual invasion I started a diversion. I asked Ghengis to declare on Asoka. He happily agrees and sends his troops to the north.
Now it is time to attack.
In Old Sarai, Ghengis had stationed most of his navy. That's nice to destroy them on land and shows one of the stupidities of the AI. No human would leave their navy in a city doomed to fall next turn.
All his cities were very well defended, it took quite some time to conquer them one by one.
Her is one example of his cities:
After more than 200 years, Ghengis finally was history:
That's a good point to end this spoiler
Game plan:
Since I went for culture last month, I wanted to go for a military victory. I only played one immortal game (RB-epic7) and that was a duel size map with just one opponent, but there I was able to get a domination victory quite easily, so I wanted to try a conquest on a larger map.
I settled 1SE of starting. Although the starting place was very good as well, I had several reasons moving 1 SE:
1) It's on a river gives health bonus.
2) gain excess to one more hill. I thought that more hammers would be more important than more food (we had enough with 1 fish, cow and corn)
3) It leaves the second fish to a town in the West (what later turned out to be treasure island)
First build: worker
With all the goodies near by I wanted to work them asap
First research: AH
The cow is the strongest field around, so I wanted to improve that right away
In 3760 BC I made contact with Hatty. That's good and bad news:
Good news because Hatty is a nice neighbour. She trades willingly and can be easily conquered since her cities are usually light on defense.
Bad news because it means she is very close and with her being creative she is very effective in the early land grab.
I also saw a great spot for my next city (red dot). It has cows and ivory, on a hill on a river what do you want more? Well, it turned out later that there were horses too!
Second research: fishing
Production: start warrior, switch to work boat as soon as fishing is researched, then finish warrior
In 3130 BC contact with Asoka. Again good and bad news:
Good news because he is another nice neighbour who trades freely and is usually rather weak on military
Bad news because his research rate is extremely high, so if not taken care early enough he will become a powerhouse due to his tech lead
3rd research: BW (chop and whip)
Production: build another warrior
4th research: writing
Production: settler
Some strategic thoughts about the near future:
I would like to build the oracle and take metall casting as a free tech. Combined with collossus that is a good boost in research and since MC is on the low priority list of the AIs it is more feasible than the usual CS slingshot.
To get to CS quickly, I am planning to use my great prophet to lightbulb it.
After settler, I built a few more warriors to fog gaze and keep barbs away, than I built a library
Settler found Shangai on former mentioned red dot
Research path went: mysticism, medidation, priesthood, wheel, pottery
Around 2500 BC I met Ghengis: This is again good and bad news
Bad news because he is such a bully with lots of military. If I let him grow too big he will be very difficult to handle.
Good news because he can be used very effectively. He is easily convinced to declare war on anybody. So I plan to use him as an ally to keep him busy and let him loose some of his troops on somebody else, weakening him and the others.
In 1390 BC I made contact with Huayna: That's just bad news. He is tough on military, a decent researcher and can't be easily manipulated
In the meantime I started to build stonehenge (before being able to start Oracle) in my capital. I did not expect to finish it, but I was convinced that the oracle will be quite a race to research all the necessary techs for MC, I wanted to use the money to keep research at 100%
This worked out nicely. I got more than 100g for the unfinished stonehenge and was able to finish Oracle and pottery in time to get metal casting for free (985 BC).
Next production: Forge, settler, worker then collossus
next research: alphabeth
This was a mistake: I should have researched hunting before to connect ivory and get the much needed happiness increase.
With alphabeth I traded all the other techs: hunting, archery, mathematics, polytheism and Iron working.
It was a nice surprise that Beijing not only had bronze but iron as well.
In 520 BC I finished the collossus. That gave a substantial increase in commerce. Unfortunately I could not build the great lighthouse, somebody built it before I even could start it.
After alphabeth research was set on CoL (for the courthouses and as a necessary tech for Civil Service)
My empire in 5 AD looks like this:
Hatty beat me to the nice spot east of Shanghai, but since there is a lot of jungle to remove, I let her do the work for me.
After building the Great library in 335 AD, I switched my production to units for the upcoming war with Hatty.
Machinery is due in 4. So it will be maces, war elephants, catapults and Ghengis against Hatty. I expect Ghengis to take out Pi Ramses, I want everything else, especially Memphis, the holy city of Judaism.
In 415 AD I declared war on Hatty with Ghengis as ally. The resistance was not much.
The war went smoothly. The only exception was that Hatty had a settler on a boat and they went to tresaure island, settled there and the galley destroyed some of my fishing vessels before I could stop it.
By 860 AD the war was over. Ghengis was less of a help than expected. He is still busy with Pi Ramses.
In the meantime I met all the other civs: Russia and Persia
Russia is a powerhouse. Good research, lots of land
Persia is very backwards, will be an easy target later on
Research is towards liberalism. I hope to get there first take nationalism as free tech and go for military tradition and cavalry for my next war.
My next opponent will be Ghengis.
I was unsure about who to take on next, Asoka or Ghengis. Asoka would be easier, but I was afraid if I keep Ghengis around too long, he will get more and more difficult to beat, so the tough one first to fall.
In 1000 AD, I was first in score and had my economy built up to prepare for the next war.
I was 3rd in GNP (close to number 1, 2nd in manufactured goods, 1st in crop yield, but still 6th in soldiers. Ghengis was the most powerful civ around.
In 1202 I have established a nice SOD to invade Ghengis
but before the actual invasion I started a diversion. I asked Ghengis to declare on Asoka. He happily agrees and sends his troops to the north.
Now it is time to attack.
In Old Sarai, Ghengis had stationed most of his navy. That's nice to destroy them on land and shows one of the stupidities of the AI. No human would leave their navy in a city doomed to fall next turn.
All his cities were very well defended, it took quite some time to conquer them one by one.
Her is one example of his cities:
After more than 200 years, Ghengis finally was history:
That's a good point to end this spoiler
Khalid
Warlord
First of all some general remarks on the game. As I was expected to be behind in tech I concentrated on commerce and colosus helped quite a lot. The map was quite favourable to us, because we had some nice grassland to cottage, while the AI had not such a good countryside around their starting locations. They had mostly plains around and thats probably slowed their expansion also. But the problem was production. Not early on, but in the mid game. I solved it with some extended whipping. However I did not micromanage to get the highest yield from whipping, I just whipped a lot, when I needed and was willing to pay the pop loss.
Continuing from my first spoiler.
As I promised, I attacked Hatty when my first Cho-ko-nus came online. She defended only with archers and was a good experience gainer for m military. However, I didnt have enough units, thanks to production shortage, so I attacked very carefully. That was the problem. When I finally attacked Thebes, there were 4 longbows there. The war ended around 700 AD leaving Hatty with only 1 city on a lonely island. She still lives there.
By the time I finished Hatty, happend exactly, what i didnt want. Genghis finished Asoka, raxed most of his lands and returned his units to my border. Damn it. I guarded my borders at the two narrow spaces in the middle of the continent. Then Cathy declared on me without reason. (i just was below her in power.) The worsest thing she did was kiling my elephant. She didnt want to sign peace, but finally she conquered a bard city and I immediately raxed it. She agreed for peace.
In the meantime I was doing good in the tech race. I was the first to education and liberalism, used it for nationalism and beelined for cavalry. I had it in around 1200 AD. After liberalism i switched to free religion, what improved my relations with HC and Cathy. They feared i was too advance, but when I actually started to be advanced, they stoped fearing. I got some very good tech trades. But i did not give away nationalism, nor education. Since then I was a clear tech leader, only HC keeping up with me.
Once I had cavalry, I started to think about atacking Genghis again. About 2 turns before I wanted to declare on him, he declared war. What a luck. He marched his 3 stacks of pikes, axs and swords towards my borders, when they were masacred by my stacks of cho-ko-nus. I continued into his lands and in 1350 AD, he was left in peace on a lonely northern icy island.
I pursued my tech lead further. After discovering astronomy, my army was healed and I declared on HC, who was starting to tech fast. Im now just in 1500 AD, Huyana is down to couple junle cities and no threat anymore.
At the begining i was thinking about not loosing, now im thinking about fastest domination. I have some 45% of pop and 40% of land. Theres still some land on my continent and im waiting for incan cities to come out of revolts. But i fear it will be not enough. I will probably set land to persian territory, who is behind in tech and power. I hope i can get the land mass fast enough.
As I promised, attacked Hatty when cho-ko-nus came online.
Continuing from my first spoiler.
As I promised, I attacked Hatty when my first Cho-ko-nus came online. She defended only with archers and was a good experience gainer for m military. However, I didnt have enough units, thanks to production shortage, so I attacked very carefully. That was the problem. When I finally attacked Thebes, there were 4 longbows there. The war ended around 700 AD leaving Hatty with only 1 city on a lonely island. She still lives there.
By the time I finished Hatty, happend exactly, what i didnt want. Genghis finished Asoka, raxed most of his lands and returned his units to my border. Damn it. I guarded my borders at the two narrow spaces in the middle of the continent. Then Cathy declared on me without reason. (i just was below her in power.) The worsest thing she did was kiling my elephant. She didnt want to sign peace, but finally she conquered a bard city and I immediately raxed it. She agreed for peace.
In the meantime I was doing good in the tech race. I was the first to education and liberalism, used it for nationalism and beelined for cavalry. I had it in around 1200 AD. After liberalism i switched to free religion, what improved my relations with HC and Cathy. They feared i was too advance, but when I actually started to be advanced, they stoped fearing. I got some very good tech trades. But i did not give away nationalism, nor education. Since then I was a clear tech leader, only HC keeping up with me.
Once I had cavalry, I started to think about atacking Genghis again. About 2 turns before I wanted to declare on him, he declared war. What a luck. He marched his 3 stacks of pikes, axs and swords towards my borders, when they were masacred by my stacks of cho-ko-nus. I continued into his lands and in 1350 AD, he was left in peace on a lonely northern icy island.
I pursued my tech lead further. After discovering astronomy, my army was healed and I declared on HC, who was starting to tech fast. Im now just in 1500 AD, Huyana is down to couple junle cities and no threat anymore.
At the begining i was thinking about not loosing, now im thinking about fastest domination. I have some 45% of pop and 40% of land. Theres still some land on my continent and im waiting for incan cities to come out of revolts. But i fear it will be not enough. I will probably set land to persian territory, who is behind in tech and power. I hope i can get the land mass fast enough.
As I promised, attacked Hatty when cho-ko-nus came online.
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
Challenger, HOF Mod, going for conquest.
Highlights
620 AD:
Ghengis Khan sneak attacks me. I am forced to make peace with Egypt and to concentrate on the Mongols. Fortunately the map gods didn't give him horses or metals, so the Mongol hordes consist of longbowmen and catapults.
770 AD:
I discover Military Tradition and cash in a couple great merchants to upgrade 10 chariots. Suddenly the Mongols are on the defensive.
1055 AD:
My first Galleons are ready, and I give the Mongols temporary peace while I go after Persia.
1124 AD: Capture the Pyramids in Persepolis and revolt to Police State.
1142 AD: Catherine sneak attacks me. I respond by capturing Russia's southern island, then sue for peace.
1190 AD: Persia defeated
1208 AD: Egypt defeated
1316 AD: Mongols defeated
1388 AD: Russia defeated
1418 AD: India defeated
1448 AD: Inca defeated?
1472 AD: Capture the last Inca city hiding on a barbarian island.
1478 AD: Conquest victory.
Assesment
In many ways, I played the second half of this game sub-optimally. I used slavery to whip cavalry and nationalism to draft musketmen. But I only used them every 5 turns or so, ignoring optimal grow patterns and not caring if I lost hammers to the HOF Mod whipping bug. I didn't use ship chaining until the last couple turns, and I lost several turns by not exploring the barbarian islands fully.
I kept most enemy cities to prevent other civs from taking the land. I didn't want to go bankrupt, so every city got a courthouse as its first build. At the end of the game I had 5000 gold in my treasury. I could have used all that courthouse production on cavalry and galleons to make conquest faster.
But I am very happy that I finished in only 13 hours.
Highlights
620 AD:
Ghengis Khan sneak attacks me. I am forced to make peace with Egypt and to concentrate on the Mongols. Fortunately the map gods didn't give him horses or metals, so the Mongol hordes consist of longbowmen and catapults.
770 AD:
I discover Military Tradition and cash in a couple great merchants to upgrade 10 chariots. Suddenly the Mongols are on the defensive.
1055 AD:
My first Galleons are ready, and I give the Mongols temporary peace while I go after Persia.
1124 AD: Capture the Pyramids in Persepolis and revolt to Police State.
1142 AD: Catherine sneak attacks me. I respond by capturing Russia's southern island, then sue for peace.
1190 AD: Persia defeated
1208 AD: Egypt defeated
1316 AD: Mongols defeated
1388 AD: Russia defeated
1418 AD: India defeated
1448 AD: Inca defeated?
1472 AD: Capture the last Inca city hiding on a barbarian island.
1478 AD: Conquest victory.
Assesment
In many ways, I played the second half of this game sub-optimally. I used slavery to whip cavalry and nationalism to draft musketmen. But I only used them every 5 turns or so, ignoring optimal grow patterns and not caring if I lost hammers to the HOF Mod whipping bug. I didn't use ship chaining until the last couple turns, and I lost several turns by not exploring the barbarian islands fully.
I kept most enemy cities to prevent other civs from taking the land. I didn't want to go bankrupt, so every city got a courthouse as its first build. At the end of the game I had 5000 gold in my treasury. I could have used all that courthouse production on cavalry and galleons to make conquest faster.
But I am very happy that I finished in only 13 hours.
I didn't finish this one, ran out of time 
I settled in place, there is no such thing as too much food for me. Built 6 cities quickly by about 700BC, used tight placement to share the food tiles between the cities. I didn't build anything, except axes and took out Egypt by about 1 AD. I researched Alphabet and MC by then, but had to stop research after that since I was close to going on strike. After killing Egypt I stopped for a while to recover my economy. I whipped the colossus in the floodplain grass city in 150AD or so. I had conquered enough luxuries to grow quickly, so I built granaries and lighthouses. I researched Compass and took Machinery for free with a scientist. Then I attacked mongols with chokonus and leftover axes (that was about 500AD). I built the FP in Mongolia and launched my GA with the next 2 GPs in 800AD. Now my economy was blooming and I researched guilds quickly after trading for feudalism. I had about 250 gpt at that point which I used to upgrade chariots. I took out Inca and southern Russia (prioritising the city that could create a culture bridge with Persia) with knights, cats and chokonus. Now I am at ~1250AD and I am strong enough to start wars against Persia, Russia and India simultaneously. Nobody has anything tougher then longbows, so knights & cats should do the job. My economy is still in great shape, I have quite a bit of money in my treasury and I have just popped a merchant, so I should be able to get Astronomy to attack Persia from both sides.
Good game, but I think I could have won faster then that using a very different approach.DaveMcW said:
I settled in place, there is no such thing as too much food for me.
Built 6 cities quickly by about 700BC, used tight placement to share the food tiles between the cities. I didn't build anything, except axes and took out Egypt by about 1 AD. I researched Alphabet and MC by then, but had to stop research after that since I was close to going on strike. After killing Egypt I stopped for a while to recover my economy. I whipped the colossus in the floodplain grass city in 150AD or so. I had conquered enough luxuries to grow quickly, so I built granaries and lighthouses. I researched Compass and took Machinery for free with a scientist. Then I attacked mongols with chokonus and leftover axes (that was about 500AD). I built the FP in Mongolia and launched my GA with the next 2 GPs in 800AD. Now my economy was blooming and I researched guilds quickly after trading for feudalism. I had about 250 gpt at that point which I used to upgrade chariots. I took out Inca and southern Russia (prioritising the city that could create a culture bridge with Persia) with knights, cats and chokonus. Now I am at ~1250AD and I am strong enough to start wars against Persia, Russia and India simultaneously. Nobody has anything tougher then longbows, so knights & cats should do the job. My economy is still in great shape, I have quite a bit of money in my treasury and I have just popped a merchant, so I should be able to get Astronomy to attack Persia from both sides.
godotnut
Inverted Unicycle
DaveMcW said:
Ship chaining? Can someone explain what this is? Thanks.
Harok
Vagabond
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2005
- Messages
- 271
godotnut said:
I believe ship chaining is where you load up units in a boat and then move them however many spaces to another boat. You can then unload the units and then put them in the other boat. Then you move that boat to another and unload again and put them in another. Rinse and repeat until you have moved them to where ever you want. You can even unload them into a city for defensive purposes having moved them across the entire map but they won't be able to move that turn. You also can't drop them off onto a square that isn't a city the same turn as when they originally moved into a boat.
It can be very useful to move units a long way in a single turn.
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