GOTM 13 - Final Spoiler

[KingdomBrunel]

Diplomatic victory for Spain, 1932.

My first official Monarch level victory, so I was very pleased with this (I have a couple of games which I should get a late game win in but my PC grinds to a halt).

I initially set out for a cultural win, but missed out on a third religion, and some early wonders. Lost my direction for a while but had good relations with the builder continent while most people hated the aggressive continent, so decided to go for diplomacy.

I got hemmed in early game, and found myself without iron, copper or horses, and with Peter only a few squares away having taken a barb city just before I could. So I beelined for construction, and swept up the east coast, taking iron, copper and horses before suing for peace and starting some serious cottage building.

Once the economy was back on track I abandoned culture, built a few more troops and persauded the Russian people to be Spanish. After that there were numerous wars with France, the Aztecs and Romans, usually with at least two of the fighting me. As a result I could repel them fairly easily, but couldn't get more than a foothold on their continent.

Always a tech or two behind the leaders (but closing), the spacerace would have been a close thing. However, Caesar was second in population, and despised by the nice civs, so I built the United Nations (my first wonder) in about 1907, and went straight for the victory. However, I failed to win Hattie's vote, leaving me about 80 votes short. Hattie was still a muslim at this point, and I had no Islamic influence in any of my cities, so couldn't convert for the "Caring for the brothers and sisters of the faith". A bit stuck for what to do, I passed a free religion resolution and somewhat to my surprise Hattie now voted for me. The Spanish people took political control of the world in 1932 for about 14,000 points.

Excellent game, I really enjoyed this one - it was right at my level. Looking forward to next month - I guess I'm going to have to try emperor now.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender. Goal fast military victory.
Domination, 1496AD, 75330points (2748 basic), 32 hours, 12 sessions.


In my first spoiler I had worker stolen Peter so much that he had only 3 cities. I took them in 35AD with swords. Took the Pyramids from him and used representation the whole game. My first 4 cities used cottages, the rest food and specialists. Optics researched in 395AD. First civ met in 575AD, all met in 650AD. Circumnavigation achieved in 785AD. Astronomy researched in 740AD, quite late because I founded too many cities.

The idiot continent was all confucionist, Hat was of a different religion than the other two in the wise continent. At this point the most important decision was taken. Should I invade the wise continent, to stop them researching? Or should I invade the idiot continent, who were all friends? Should I win by conquest, my initial plan? Or by diplomacy, given the fact that 1 continent was divided and that I had a couple of GE available? Or by domination, that I have only done once in my live, taking into account the fact that my continent is already more than 30% of the world?
I decided to bribe the wise guys into war and to conquer the idiot continent, that was the closest one. I decided to try and win a domination. I achieved domination before I could have achieved conquest or diplo, so I suppose I was right.

Cesar was the most advanced and powerful, so I left him the last. I teched like crazy to Guilds (995AD), and then to Cannons(1256AD), very slow because of maintaining so many units and cities. First took half of Gengis, then Monte (1268AD), then the rest of Gengis (1334AD) then Napo (1370AD) and one city from Hat in the FP island, then Cesar in 1436.


Mistakes:
- Don’t know how to finish a domination game. In a couple of turns I would have reached 70% of land, so I should have gone 100% culture and settler spamming a whole century before.
- GP mismanagement. I played a conservative game, so I kept my GE unused for a future UN construction and my GS unused for lightbulbing Physics. I should have started one or two GAs with them.
- Sloppy play. Since speed is Epic, you can afford some mistakes, so I didn’t pay attention and I committed plenty of little mistakes, like losing a just conquered city.
- Slow preparation period, while I had galleons but no Conquistadores. The more Elephants I built, the slower the tech pace.
- I don’t know how to count tiles (should I have used my fingers?). So at the end I was fearing that the two continents wouldn’t be enough to reach the domination limit. As a result I started and unnecessary invasion of Egypt.
- Cannons only took the last Cesar’s cities, they weren’t needed at all.
- Theaters and artist were used only at the very end.

***********************
South city discussion:

Plenty of people farmed the South floodplains. I cottaged them. Which solution is better?
I mined all the hills and worked them the whole game, and I used a couple scientists with the remaining food. Since I cottaged very soon, they became towns in the BCs/early ADs. Since my civ was too hammer rich, I think I should have cottaged the hills too.

Since I used slavery the whole game and since I did not use my GPs at all, I am quite satisfied with my South city management. What’s your view on this point?

***********************

Thanks to the staff for the GOTM. And thanks to the map creator for the high waters setting, this map had less land than some of the last GOTMs even though it was Large.

 

[Mutineer]

WEll, continue from my previous post.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4858014&postcount=4

Great war for mettals start
620 AD
with me taking cooper and Iron site and gerring out of Peter some gold and archery, the only tech I ever got from him in 755AD.

I contimue to build army in order to take his capital, he spawn cities all around the rest of continent.
905AD second peter war started, me taking 3 peter cities, including target of this war, Moscow with it's Piramids/Panteon.
I build Wat, not sure why, probably wanted shrine.

Was researching to liberalism with idea to take astronomy from it.
So, Optics first and load caravels with explorert and send them to different direction.

Using tech for map trade got around the globe in 1358 AD.
Map reveal hat on island, rased caravel there and got Astronomy from it befor I finish liberalism (I think 3 turns were left).

Had choise of economics with free GM or nationalism, choise Nationalism for some drafting to finish the game.

So, draft some maces then Muskets and set to finish peter why normally building Galeons.
1400AD liberalism, quete late but will do.
1412AD declare on Peter and Finish him
in 1478AD.

DEcided to attack more developed peacefull continent.
In principle did not research chemistry, go after Riffling and then democracy.

1523 declare on Mansa.
1574 finish him, did not bring enogth forces on start, was a bit slow.
1569 declare on Gandy and finish him 1628, Declare on Hatty same turn.
1649 Hatty was dead and domination limit was achieved in
1652 AD.

 

[Bart_civ]

I went ahead with my preferred strategy as I discussed in the pre-game discussion and settled in place.
Build order: WB, worker, warrior/barracks, settler at size 3 and then Oracle (chopped both), next was a temple and library.
Early techs: poly (hindu), hunting, mining, BW, priesthood, wheel, AH, writing, alpa and CoL from Oracle.
Result: Contender, Dom in 1937, 6044 base, 20000 final, played 14 hours 44 min.

Somehow I lost my autolog file, so I'll have to tell the story from the replay file and my memory.
Founded Hinduism in 3460BC, Barcelona in 2080BC near the gold, pigs. This was a really nice spot. Got the Oracle in 1030BC in order to get Confu.
Meanwhile, my wandering warrior meets Peter in the north after being stalked by that $@*&! bear in the jungle. I didn't want to take a change and fortify on a jungle hill, like some of you guys did, and ended up doing a lot of circle movements.
In 800BC, Peter and Isabella convert to Hinduism. I thought this would improve relations, so I could start trading asap. Well, he wouldn't have any of that, no matter how hard I tried. I even gave him alpabet!
Settled my 3rd city on the FP down south. In 445BC my GP was born and I was ready to click on bulb-button until I saw it would get me Meditation instead of CS. WTH?! Of course, if I can't trade, I'll have to research it myself. So, it took me until 175BC to switch to Bureaucracy.
In 245AD I got a bit lucky and was able to settle my 4th city near the iron along the coast. I was beeling towards construction at that time anyway, but it was nice to have a backup plan in case there were too many spears in Peter's cities. I figured the peace wouldn't last forever and the best defence is the offence...
Built the GLibrary in 260AD and got my second GP in 560AD for my first shrine.
In 680AD my SoD (elephants, cats, swords) was ready and I marched north along the east coast. The plan was to mop up Peter's land in a big counterclock-wise circular movement while my fresh troops would start the attack from the south along the west coast. St.Petersburg fell in 740, Moscow in 860, razed Vladivostok in 905, captured Novgorod in 995 and Khazak in 1010. At this moment I sued for peace to get some techs. In 1148 I started a second war to capture the remaing cities except for 1 on the northern tip of the continent, so I could get his remaining techs. After a brief pause, Peter was eliminated in 1304AD.

So far so good. Now was the time for getting the economy working again and just in time because some time later the first caravels started to appear.
Thanks to some map trading, I circumnavigated the globe first! This extra sea movement proved crucial in the late game for chasing down enemy transports.
I did learn one lesson the hard way: don't trade techs when you arrive at another continent. First check if there are more than one civ on the continent.
In my case I traded CS with Rome and then found out the rest of the continent also had it the next turn.
It took me almost 3 centuries to get my tech rate at an even pace with peacemonger island with 7 techs trailing them. I was even slightly behind the warmongers: they all changed religion to Taoism (JC founded it) and were pleased with each other. So I knew I had to lay low during the middle game and use my production advantage in the late game.

In 1685 Monty DoW on me. Always Monty! He lands a stack of 4 knights, 2 cats and 1 longbow near my largest west-coast city.
Luckily, I just produced my first Cavalry and still had my elephants from the Russian wars: 2 turns later the invasion was defeated. In order to prevent another amphibious assault I protected my continent with a ring of frigats: not a single enemy vessel ever got to my coast lines again. In the late game, I used these frigats as an early warning system and used my destroyers and battleships as a mobile mop-up crew. For some reason the AI never bothered taking these frigats out before moving on.
During the 1700's and 1800's, my diplomacy skills were used to get the AI fight each other and in the end I managed to get every one fight at least once, except for Mansa. It became clear he would be my main competitor for the SS.
Plan A: beat him to it, plain and simple.
Plan B: use my production surplus to get a decent military and take him out before he beats me to the SS.

Well, I thought Plan B would have the most promise. I noticed Ghandi built Versailles, so I DoW on him in 1851 (he was already at war with Khan at the time) and used that city as a beachhead on peacemonger island. This way I could start a land war with Mansa, which I still prefer over naval warfare. The war with Ghandi went so good (artillery vs riflemen), I eliminated him in 1865.
I built Apollo in 1860, Mansa did it in 1865 and Hatty in 1875.
In 1907 I had gathered a sizeable army at Mansa's border (20 MA, 10 Mech Inf, a couple of tanks, cav and inf.) with further reinforcements under way and decided to take his capital without bombarding the 80% defences, 'cos I didn't research Flight. I lost half of my MA and most of my Mech Inf during his counter attack, but in the end all that matters is having superiour units in larger numbers. I wiped him out in 1916.
Around 1920 I start construction on my last component and a SS victory should be mine in 1938. But what to do with all those units I built for more than 5 decades? And what to do about Hatty who is already building thrusters?
So I DoW on her in 1921 and kick her off the island in 1927. She has 2 cities remaining on the northern island and give her peace. I just sit back and start hitting the Enter-button to rush through the years.

And then it happens: in 1937 Thebes comes out of revolt, expands its borders and I reach the Domination limit. Totally forgot about that! What I wouldn't give for some tool to tell me visually how much land I need to hit the limit...
I guess I'm just too lazy to count tiles on screen...

Reading the other posts, I should have taken out Peter a lot earlier. Making some stupid mistakes also didn't help.
On the bright side, my military operations went really well. Maybe I should go for Conquest/Dom next GOTM instead of a SS.
Last but not least, kudos to the GOTM staff for setting up this map: nice touch with peacemonger/warmonger continent and a neighbour you couldn't trade with until it's too late.

 

[Erkon]

South city discussion:

Plenty of people farmed the South floodplains. I cottaged them. Which solution is better?
I mined all the hills and worked them the whole game, and I used a couple scientists with the remaining food. Since I cottaged very soon, they became towns in the BCs/early ADs. Since my civ was too hammer rich, I think I should have cottaged the hills too.

Since I used slavery the whole game and since I did not use my GPs at all, I am quite satisfied with my South city management. What’s your view on this point?

My experience from this game that building farms on the flood plains was not as good as I had hoped for. The main reason was that the Great People I got was not very useful to me. However, I don't think that cottages are better in general than specialists, or vice versa. It's very much depending on the situation, and in certain circumstances it's generally better to run cottages, and in other it's better to run specialists. I will make a feeble attempt to list the various factors that needs to be taken into consideration when deciding on what kind of economy should be adopted. Hopefully we can get a better understanding regarding the South City.

I will start with a simple (and very simplified) example:
Consider a city of size 5 that have two flood plains. In this example, the two FP will either be farmed or cottaged. Further, lets assume that both tiled are improved at T = 0 (both at the same time). There will then be two alternative timelines and I aim to compare the two. Two farmed FP can support two specialists, and two cottaged FP can support one specialist (there is a small discrepancy in production/food depending on the other tiles, but I will neglect that). The difference is thus one specialist vs the extra commerce generated by the cottages (which will change over time) although all specialists must be included in the comparision.

Assume normal speed/noble/standard map as the baseline settings for a vanilla Civ game. Lets ignore the leader traits as well at this moment and lets ignore any civics, wonders and reserach effects (such like printing press). Lets assume that no other specialists are active. As I wrote above, this is very simplified ;-)

Farms (specialist) timeline
T=0: Start of farming timeline
T=1: 2x3=6 Research Points + 2x3=6 Great People Points
T=17: 17x6=102 RP + 1 GS + 2 GPP
T=50: 300 RP + 2 GS
T=100: 600 RP + 3 GS
T=167: 1002 RP + 4 GS + 4 GPP

Cottage timeline
T=0: Start of cottage timeline
T=10: 10x2x1 commerce (=>RP) + 10x3 RP + 10x3 GPP = 50 RP + 30 GPP
T=30: 2x(10 + 20x2) RP + 30x3 RP + 30x3 GPP = 190 RP + 90 GPP
T=34: 2x(10 + 20x2 + 4x3) RP + 34x3 RP + 1 GS + 2 GPP = 226 RP + 1 GS + 2 GPP
T=70: 2x(10 + 20x2 + 40x3) RP + 70x3 RP + 1 GS + 110 GPP = 550 RP + 1 GS + 110 GPP
T=100: 2x(10 + 20x2 + 40x3 + 30x4) RP + 100x3 RP + 2 GS = 880 RP + 2 GS
T=167: 2x(10 + 20x2 + 40x3 + 97x4) RP + 167x3 RP + 2 GS + 201 GPP = 1617 RP + 2 GS
T=200: 2x(10 + 20x2 + 40x3 + 130x4) RP + 200x3 RP + 3 GS = 1980 RP + 3 GS

Difference after 100 turns is thus 1 GS compared to 280 research points. More precicely, the difference is two GS (T=17 & T=50) compared to one (T=34). It is ofcourse hard to state the difference in research value for a GS, but I think it is reasonable to set the value to 800 (Philosophy for example).

My imediate conclusion from this isolated and simplified example is that farms/specialists are superior compared to cottaging. However, there is a point in time when the cottage strategy is becoming more efficient than the farms/specialist strategy. There are many aspects that needs to be taken into consideration so lets take a look what happens if we include leader traits, civics, wonders and research effects.

Leader traits
Charismatic provides an advantage for farms strategy due to the extra happiness
Creative (patched warlords) provides an advantage for farms strategy due to the cheaper libraries
Philosophical obviously provides a clear advantage for farms strategy

Civics
Representation - good for specialists strategy
Universal Suffrage - good for cottage strategy
Free Speach - good for cottage strategy
Caste System - good for specialist strategy
Emancipation - good for cottage strategy
Pacifism - good for specialist strategy

Wonders
National Epic - good for specialist strategy (for one city)
The Parthenon - good for specialist strategy

Research effects
Printing Press - huge advantage for cottage strategy

Other aspects

Time - general
There are three advantages with getting techs as early as possible. First, the advantage with the tech comes to effect earlier. Second, there may be a one-time reward (religion, great person, etc). Third, you can trade the tech for another tech. Using specialists enables lightbulbing early on and that aspect is one of the most important IMO.

Another aspect of time is that the cottage strategy will eventually become more favourable. So, when do I predict that the game will end? If I aim for space ship/diplomatic, then the cottage strategy is preferred. Fast conquest/domination games will not last long enough for taking advantage of mid/late game cottage advances. War games will not run cottage friendly civics either.

Finally, cottages may be available before library (due to building the library and due to research path) - advantage to cottage strategy.

Conquest/domination vs culture/space ship strategy.
War weariness will have more impact of large cities - advantage to cottage strategy

Difficulty
Happiness/health cap have more impact on farms - advantage to cottage strategy

Culture
GP farms are of course very usable for cultural victories, although the research comparison is no longer valid.

I am very eager to get comments on my reasoning, so please add your thoughts. Perhaps these matters have been discussed to death in other threads

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Spainiard Izzy took an axe;
And gave Ol' Peter four big whacks.
When she saw what she had done;
She said, "This continent is won."

It took four wars to give Pete the beatdown. And, since I seem to be learning well from some of you, when he took the barb city with the copper, I declared on him and made it my own. By Continental War IV, I knew it was domination or nothing... the other AI's were tech trading like mad, and I could backfill a little, but not much. So, what was the plan?

JC would be easiest, and since he'd declared war on me earlier, I had no qualms about it. Took a couple cities and sued for peace. He'd be easy later.

Monty next, since he had so deviously sent over a couple ships full of troops to attack me first (who were wiped out by conquistadors). Once I had a heavy tech lead on him, I thrashed him soundly. During this time, France declared on me, too! So... peace with Monty, then beat on France for a bit, finally peace comes back to the lands, but only shortly.

JC then goes with a whimper, Monty is so far behind the times my tanks run over him, and it's just Napoleon who stands in my way, since the second continent will obviously give me the land I need.

One problem. Mansa is building his space ship at an alarming rate, and to win this I need to "keep him on this planet." (Catch the quote?) So, while my bevy of spies were continually thrashing mines, farms, towns, and the occasional production... I finally managed to get flight.

Once I had plenty of fighters, tanks, and gunships, France was toasted quicker than New Years in Times Square at 12:01. Giving me a late... 1977... win by domination. Yeah, I'm proud!

M

 

[ewokimpi]

When I left off my previous post,
I was at in the middle of the First Russian War, having captured three cities including Moscow.

The Russian Wars, to Caravels:

Spoiler :

One feature of this war was that the SoD was not overwhelming, but sufficient only. I started with 3 els and 3 cats, and attacked with cats first to knock down the defenders to winnable percentages. And since Peter seemed not to believe in building an army ("Rasputin! Produce another Settler!" "Da, Tsar Peter!"), the war was easy. I did it in two wars to avoid going broke, finishing in 1184 AD. This was an eventful turn, as Optics was discovered as well.

I wonder why Russia's city positioning was so poor? And why was Moscow sited off fresh water? Is there perhaps a late game resource we can't see? Anyway, the Russian cities took a while to develop, and in any event did little for the Spanish economy because I was putting farms in them, not cottages. Influenced by Blake-AI from WOTM3, I guess.

I was another player (like DynamicSpirit, I think it was) who delayed getting great people from the southern FP city because I was sloooooowly accumulating Great Prophet points for a shrine. Given the phobia I had to cottages, I really did need the cash from the shrine, though.

Other events in this era included the demise of Rome in 935 AD. It was clear they were having fun out there. And Islam was founded in 1130 AD. Someone else was out-teching Spain by a lot.


Turn 255 (1190 AD)
Vladivostok begins: Caravel
EwokVille begins: Caravel
Madrid begins: Caravel
Barcelona begins: Caravel
Research begun: Literature
Research begun: Civil Service
Research begun: Monarchy
Research begun: Feudalism
Research begun: Guilds

Spain starts spamming Caravels, and sets a research path to Conquistadors. Could be awhile before Isabella sends Francisco Pizarro anywhere, as Galleons are still far, far away.

The Middle Ages: There's people over there! And they're smarter than us!

Spoiler :

Well, Spain was in the middle ages anyway... Some other powers were farther along!

France was discovered by Hernan Cortes in Spain's swiftest caravel in 1256 AD. France did know more than Spain, but not by much. I knew that at some point I would need to command the seas to the west, as Nappy is not known for being peaceful.

Between 1278 AD and 1298 AD, all the other civs are discovered. Like all the rest of you, I noted the delightful combination of all the studious civs on one continent, and all the rabid dogs on the other. One of the Dogs had already had its throat torn out. And Mali looked to be one that would graduate Magna Cum Laude. Mali was an unknowable number of techs ahead of Spain.

What to do, what to do?

1) Get the sailing bonus if at all possible, to have an advantage on the seas.
2) Given the choice of attacking the Students or the Rabid Dogs, I chose to plan to assault the Students. Those folks don't build much military, so even if they are several techs ahead I should be able to take them.
3) Guard against the Dogs by putting a picket line out to sea, and keeping a small defensive force in the south near the Capital and other important cities of Spain.
4) Go straight to Astronomy, then straight to Military Tradition. Tech farther if possible, but not likely to get far. No Biology this game.
5) Assault force on the Students will be Conquistadors and Cats, with a few Pikes thrown in. When I tech to Military Tradition, Cavs will be added.
6) Trade carefully: I don't want to give military techs to the Students, or Astronomy to the Dogs.


The Renaissance:

Spoiler :

Turn 277 (1322 AD)
User comment: I get the sailing movement bonus. Not seen a foreign ship.
Tech learned: Civil Service

I'm not at all sure why I haven't yet seen a foreign Caravel. And you can see where Spain is tech-wise!

Turn 301 (1466 AD)
St. Paul (Great Prophet) born in EwokVille

My darn silly desire to get a Shrine finally pays off, centuries too late.

Turn 319 (1547 AD)
Tech learned: Astronomy

Finally!

Turn 323 (1559 AD)
User comment: Napoleon far ahead of anyone else in power.

I absolutely can't let this Dog onto my continent.

Occasionally I trade for some techs, usually to Napoleon. We are close to each other tech, so make good partners. I post spies (Caravel, Explorer) in Napoleon's port cities.

Finally, the war against the students is prepared: AD 1619 to AD 1766.

Spoiler :

The assault order is Egypt, Mali, India. I think Egypt offered the best foothold, with the sea front of Mali being narrow to the west, and India being primarily to the east.

Not much to relate here, the initial assault group was 21 units, Conquistadors, Cats, and Pikes. More later, of course. Losses were significant, but sustainable. And the cultural power of Mali and India threatened to flip/did flip some conquered cities. In the end, it was a matter of grinding thru city after city. I would end one war when I ran out of nearby cities for that Student, and then declare war on the next Student.

Turn 347 (1631 AD)
Tech learned: Military Tradition

Spain had Cavalry late in the campaign, but so did India; they sent a galleon of three Cavs to the most useless spot they possibly could have. Had they sent it toward Spain's home continent, I might have had some problems, as there was no picket line to the east.

Turn 375 (1715 AD)
Circassian begins: West Point
Circassian finishes: West Point

Here I made a boneheaded play. I had a GE, but was so far behind in tech I was never going to use it on a real number. I was able to build West Point, so I built it using the GE in my GP city, NOT my military city (where the Heroic Epic was).

Late in the game, I conquered the northern island for extra tiles, in case the Students' continent was not enough. That assault was carried out by Grenadiers and Cannons.

Meanwhile, the Dogs attacked and took some of the very small islands near their continent. Nappy apparently attacked from the sea and took a small mountainous island, followed by Monty landing 3 Cavs a turn later. Monty's Cavs never left the island.

Techwise I did make it as far as Scientific Method. Did not get to Bio.

Victory, Domination, Final score, 55696, Base 4199, finish AD 1766.

 

[jesusin]

---South city discussion---

@Erkon: Thank you for your detailed explanation. I wouldn’t like to repeat here a CE-SE discussion, that is not the objective of this thread. I would prefer to talk only about this particular game and this particular city.

Let me just say that I don’t share the conclusions of your example. Of course, it is all true if that’s the only city in your civ. But, if you have other cities, everything changes. Imagine you have another city, which is your GPfarm and is running 8 specialists. In that case, your example city will pop zero GP, no matter if you farm it or cottage it.

Back to our game, I assume that those who farmed the FPs used the city as their GPfarm. I used another city as my GPfarm, my capital, settled near the iron with pigs and fish. I got 6 GPs from the capital (would have been 7 if I had played till 1500AD). I worked 6 fully developed towns in the Southern city and run a couple of scientists too, as well as some dozen hammers. How many GPs had you got from the Southern city by 1500AD? How many beakers were you getting from the cottages and scientist in your capital? IMO this is the data we should compare.

 

[Erkon]

---South city discussion---

@Erkon: Thank you for your detailed explanation. I wouldn’t like to repeat here a CE-SE discussion, that is not the objective of this thread. I would prefer to talk only about this particular game and this particular city.

Let me just say that I don’t share the conclusions of your example. Of course, it is all true if that’s the only city in your civ. But, if you have other cities, everything changes. Imagine you have another city, which is your GPfarm and is running 8 specialists. In that case, your example city will pop zero GP, no matter if you farm it or cottage it.

Back to our game, I assume that those who farmed the FPs used the city as their GPfarm. I used another city as my GPfarm, my capital, settled near the iron with pigs and fish. I got 6 GPs from the capital (would have been 7 if I had played till 1500AD). I worked 6 fully developed towns in the Southern city and run a couple of scientists too, as well as some dozen hammers. How many GPs had you got from the Southern city by 1500AD? How many beakers were you getting from the cottages and scientist in your capital? IMO this is the data we should compare.

Sorry if I deviated from the objective. My intention was to illustrate the different outcome from that specific city, not a Cottage Economy vs Specialist Economy analysis in general, like the one at Strategy and Tips. And I am interested to know what part of the conclusions you disagree with?

If I understand you correct, we're instead looking at the choice weather to use the SS as GP-farm or the iron/pigs/fish city as GP-farm? Since I built my capital on the ivory, and built the GL there as well, I'm afraid that I can't provide any relevant figures. I'll check my log for the great people though.

The advantage with using the SS as GP-farm is that you can run one specialist for each flood plain, and swap to the mines when a new building becomes available. I don't see that advantage with the pigs/iron/fish city. Could you please post some screenshots of the city view of your two cities? Did you ever run bureaucracy?

And I want to clarify that I'm not trying to argument for my choice. I want to understand the reasoning behind selecting where to build the GP farm.

 

[jesusin]

And I want to clarify that I'm not trying to argument for my choice. I want to understand the reasoning behind selecting where to build the GP farm.

Of course. I really appreciate your helping me to determine if my cottaging was a mistake. I wish more people would share their opinion here.

I disagree with the conclusion you got from your timelines in that, if there is a dominant GPfarm somewhere else, no GP will be born in this city. If you take the lightbulbing of that GPs out of the final results, you will find that cottages provide more beakers than farms. By the way, I would say that a GS will lightbulb a maximum of 1500+ beakers in normal speed. The "+" depends on your population.

I never run buraeucracy, revolted to vasaillage around 900AD and stayed there.

Maybe we should compare 3 cities then, initial spot city, iron city and Southern City. I will load the game this night and post my screenshots tomorrow.

 

[Erkon]

I disagree with the conclusion you got from your timelines in that, if there is a dominant GPfarm somewhere else, no GP will be born in this city. If you take the lightbulbing of that GPs out of the final results, you will find that cottages provide more beakers than farms. By the way, I would say that a GS will lightbulb a maximum of 1500+ beakers in normal speed. The "+" depends on your population.

Maybe we should compare 3 cities then, initial spot city, iron city and Southern City. I will load the game this night and post my screenshots tomorrow.

My GP farm generated 6 GP and my capital 2 GP (due to the Great Library). When looking at my saves, I realise that I didn't run my GP farm very focused e.g. built barracks and some units). My unit production city generated GP-points but no GP.

Since lightbulbing is one major advantage with specialists, it's hard to compare if you remove that out of the equation. Actually, I think that the lightbulbing/academy aspect is the central part of the discussion. However, I promised to stay out of the Cottage Economy vs Farming Economy comparison so I'll stop here

I used the iron city for military production, the extra food enabled me to work the mines. Did you use a good unit city?

I have attached five screenshots (GP Farm + Unit Farm in 65 AD, GP Farm + Unit Farm + Capital 1085 AD). I notice that I can't utilise my GP Farm due to unhappiness. This leads me to the conclusion that your choice was better. The difference between these two cities is that Barcelona had two high yield food resources (5 each). That's enough to run three specialists (at a population of five). Cordoba needs six population to run three specialists.

Is that then a general guide? A GP farm shall be located where there is at least two high yield food sources? And Flood Plains shall be cottaged? The reason for this is then the cap in happiness/health...

 

[jeffd210]

I got CivIV over T-giving but didn't finish GOTM 12 in time so this is my first official result. I have played CivIII many times but had trouble getting saved games in, so I hoped that I could finish this one in time. And I did! The following is my Isabella's history. Perhaps some experts can offer some advice? I found that I had many holes in my strategies starting from around 1400 BC.

Before the Beginning

Spoiler :

I played the preview map that was provided in the pre-game forum. In that, I was surrounded by AIs, so an early land grab seemed mandatory. I only played through until I had a good piece of land staked out, missing out on the experience of what to do next which would affect the real game, I found out later. However, at the time with some confidence, I began the journey into GOTM 13.

The Beginning

Spoiler :

I founded Madrid in place, went for Hinduism while work boat, warrior, worker. Part of the land grab strategy I had was religious borders expanding. I wanted to get Judaism too for my 2nd city.

My exploring warrior got promoted, and since it was all jungles, I tried woodsman I. Later, after winning more fights with ever more vicious cats and bears, I decided woodsman II would be good. I had no idea about the jungles would become roads . This WoodsMan mapped out the entire island and survived peacefully until the end of the game.

I founded Barcelona on the gold / pigs / gems and the next turn it founded Judaism. I'm not sure if that always happens (2nd city gets 2nd religion) but it worked in my tests games and it worked here. A quick conversion, and the borders of Barcelonia were going to expand rapidly. So far, all according to plan.

My 3rd city, Seville, went way up north of Barcelona along the river, getting the floodplains and more gems in 1420 BC. I thought to place it to prevent the only AI I had found from coming my way. I had heard about the distance management penalty, but it didn't seem too bad.

The Barbarians

Spoiler :

This game was quite different than the preview in that there was so much empty space. Empty space for barbarians to found cities. Cities nicely placed right where I wanted to have my own cities!

Cordoba was founded on the remains of the first barbarian city in 985. I didn't want to raze the barb's city, it just happened, but the area seemed to be a good place for a city (I don't think I had seen the iron yet, I was thinking fish, pigs, and rice).

I had better luck when my veteran troops encountered Ainu to the west and was able to preserve the town.

The Bewilderment

Spoiler :

At this point, I thought I had a good start. The only problem is that I had no idea what to do next. I had only met Peter, and he traded me nothing. Alphabet was a long ways off, so I decided to start a war and get some techs from him. I didn't realize for a long time that I needed Alphabet to extort techs in peace settlements.

Peter put some workers near my borders that were going to finish building their mines and roads before my cats were ready for the war. I decided to liberate his workers and see how my army of elephants would do without cats.

I got the workers, but my army got obliterated. Archers in cities on hills were too much for elephants and swords. After defending against me, Peter marched elephants down to Cordoba and took out my iron mine. My sole warrior in Cordoba convinced me to abort the foolishness, and I sued for peace, getting nothing beyond a broken iron mine and 2 workers.

The Bitterness

Spoiler :

Centuries later I had built cats, replaced the elephants, and even added some axes, spears, and swords. This time I launched from Seville, with a pincer coming later from the south up the coast.

The war the second time went much smoother. City after Russian city fell to me. I preserved them all, thinking of expanding my empire without needing to bother with settlers.

With Russia down to a few cities, I was ready to sue for tech and peace. What, no tech offered ? I decided to stomp Peter for his short sightedness. Didn't he know that he'd have 10 more turns before I'd attack him again? Only then did it dawn on me that I should have researched Alphabet....

The Biding

Spoiler :

With a continent to myself, it was time to turn up the research-o-meter and get some navigation tech. Only, all those previously Russian cities had a big hit on my economy. As in, I was losing gpt even with 0% research. It was a good thing I had gotten a lot of gold from Peter as the cities fell. Even so, I still I had to dismantle my cats to stem the bleeding.

I began the painful process to getting CoL and courhouses. 10% research, 20%. And then some boats showed up to show off their culture's tech lead and offer me nothing. 30%, 40%. Fortunately, all were friendly, as if on holiday to go see the primitives at the Spanish Zoo. 50%.

With peace, cities grew, buildings were built, and war was a distant memory. My warriors and war elephants snoozed in their comfortable homes. 60%. Finally, I had a caravel go see the world. It was a big world.

At this point I started considering about how to win this game. I made the decision that with all the infrastructure put in place to catch up on science, I might as well go for space. I'm not sure how that made sense, but at 2AM it doesn't have to be too logical.

Years and centuries went by. Peace. 70%. I finally caught up on science and was able to make my first trades! Rapidly I took the scientific lead. 80%. Now I was handing out research papers to keep the others up to speed with glorius Spain. Ghandi, Hat, and Mansa all were pleased with me. But Monty, Julius, and Ghengis (who appears took out France sometime before my time) were always demanding this that or the other.

Monty even settled on my continent up by some crabs and beaver -- imagine! My culture quickly subsumed his settlement, and his people joined me. Having learned my economics lesson, I razed his city! That may be why he never liked me after that, I don't know for sure, but some centuries later he declared war on me and landed an invasion army of 3 units!

Monty becomes the Full Monty

Spoiler :

At this point, I was a bit bored with all that peace. I put together some modern troops -- upgrading archers to machine guns where Monty landed, warriors to infantry to actually attack. I made transports, filled them with artillery and by this time mech inf and tanks, and off I motored to the west.

I landed next to Arretium in the NE corner of the middle continent. I took my time bombarding Monty's defenses to 0 with a destroyer and then attacked. Arretium had only 1 guy left, and I had one artillery unused, so I pushed the attack and Arretium was mine! For one turn. A single wounded artillery and 2 wounded ME were not much on defense. And a destroyer wasn't any help at all! The next turn, Arretium had 12 more Aztec troops. I built up a bigger, better, and more powerful army, shuttling 3, 4, 5, and finally 6 transports back and forth.

Finally, Arretium was mine, well defended, and once things calmed down I rushed an airport. All that time of shuttling, Spain had put airports everywhere. As soon as Arretium International was finished, the troops arrived in droves. They set out west, south, and southwest. Battleships and destroyers weakened the coastal defences, while artillery made the long march to the 2 inner cities.

G'bye Monty, nice knowing ya.

The Backstab

Spoiler :

During the Aztec campaign, Julius and Genghis both asked for help in taking out the other, but I told them that I was busy. Once Monty had nothing left, I looked south. Were those gaps in their borders? Some front line settlers rushed to plant new cities. I was planning on jumping in to help Julius finish off Genghis, with me getting all the rewards.

Just as all was in place, J and G made peace. Well, I was tired of G anyhow, and so I proceeded on my own. Research was at 90% and Hinduism was everywhere. I had missionaries spreading the globe, enhancing my wealth. 100%. But Genghis wouldn't partake. I decided to correct that. My 2 settler cities in between Rome and Mongolia were to be launch pads. I declared on Genghis, rushed an airport, and took out 3 of his cities. Only to find Julius decided he wanted those cities himself, and he declared on me! 8 cavalries were too much for my 1 Mech Inf in the South Airport, and city and all improvements were razed!

Of course I finished off Genghis and held off Julius after that. But Julius would not hear of any proposals for peace. So I had to finished him off too.

The Surprise Ending

Spoiler :

During the wars, I had made all spaceship parts except 2. I was 7 turns from the final stasis chamber and a launch when, at 3 AM, I saw that I had 59.8% of the land. What to do? I was too tired to think, so I just pressed enter. Domination victory in 1904, completely unplanned for. While nice to win, I don't think 1904 domination is going to be too competitive.

Need Advice

Spoiler :

I didn't know how to work with some fundamental game principals. Any advice would be welcome:
1. maintenance and wars: when to raze, when to keep
2. great people: no clue at all, never had a golden age, only got 1 great prophet even with 2 religions
3. when to choose a victory condition, and how to avoid others when war cannot be stopped

 

[jesusin]

Since lightbulbing is one major advantage with specialists, it's hard to compare if you remove that out of the equation. Actually, I think that the lightbulbing/academy aspect is the central part of the discussion. However, I promised to stay out of the Cottage Economy vs Farming Economy comparison so I'll stop here

Oh, my, please excuse my poor English, I don't get my ideas through. I agree with your quoted paragraph, lightbulbing is the key. What I am trying to say is that, if you compare a cottaged city with a farmed city, and none of them ever pops a GP, then, in that case, lightbulbing is not a factor, since there will be no lightbulbing at all. I hope I have expressed it better now. Anyway, I also prefer to stop here.


Your conclusions about a GPfarm and a minimum of 2 food resources are very interesting. I wandered with my settler in the first place because there wasn't enough food in the initial spot.

My units city was Moscu.

I finished the National Epic around 300AD. At that time, the city that had the most spare food was the iron city. In addition, I had finished the GLIB there, so it was clearly my best city for a GPfarm, even if it was the capital.

I think that the best possible GPfarm was the Southern city. But it is not wise to have the GLIB and the GPfarm in different cities. And, as a minor factor, what can you do with the city that is not chosen as a GPfarm. Since I didn't choose the Southern city, I was able to put 6 cottages in it and get a decent production.

I attach my screenshots. I will study yours now.

 

[pilferman]

Well, this was a most interesting game. I haven't played Civ4 since about a month after it was released. This was basically a refresher game, started yesterday and finished about 10 minutes ago.

I founded Madrid on the starting tile, Barcelona on the south tip, Seville straight west of Madrid on the coast, blah blah blah. Things were progressing smoothly until I found the Barbarian cities. I assembled a squad of 5 archers and attacked Minoan on the west coast north of Seville...and lost badly. Not wanting to take any chances, I assembled about 10 archers to take this city (l o l barbarians?). I took it easily and headed north to take the other Barb city. Still churning out archers and a few elephants, I moved about 15 units to take the city. I capped it and set my sights on a Russian city north of Madrid sitting on what I thought was the only iron.

My plan at this point was to get some iron and steamroll the Russians with this mass of anti-barb units. Right when I was about to attack Russia, I discovered the other iron in the NW part of the island...held by a pesky band of Barbarians. I called off the Russian attack for the moment and headed up to take the Barbarian iron city. Right after I took it, my coffers were depleted and units started disbanding. This is what ultimately ended my game. I switched to a 100% peaceful, 2 units in every city style economy. I had plenty of turf, but I just needed science and gold to catch up. I was way too far behind Peter to attempt an invasion, and way too poor to try buying techs.

Fast forward to about 1750. I was still behind in techs, but I was making serious ground. I was a production powerhouse and I figured I could probably pull off a space race victory, even though Peter had already started his construction. I started trading my techs to the idiot civs for gold/misc techs and was well on my way to starting my space race bid.

Then it happened. Ol' Monty randomly invaded with some tanks/cavalry. My cities were still defended by archers/longbowmen...I can't remember which. I immediately upgraded to infantry, but it was too late. He took my iron city (not that iron was of any use) and started moving south, razing 1 more. I basically conceded the game at this point. Peter built the UN and I had the option to vote for myself or him. I figured I wouldn't get enough votes, so I voted for him and that ended it. Good ol' India actually voted for me

In retrospect, going all out for the iron was an aweful move. I crippled my economy at a very important time, not allowing myself to recover fully. I forgot how much an empire can burden you. GOTM 14 will be much different, I promise you. Final: Diplo loss to Peter, 1940AD, ~3200 score.

 

[jesusin]

I attach my screenshots. I will study yours now.

Hi have compared our cities. I have assumed a number of hypothesis to make both games more easily comparable, like taking out the Pyramids in my game, changing some tiles, imaging your game gets to trade 5 happiness and 5 health resources the following turn and then the GPfarm pop grows instantly, eliminating pop in my capital, etc...

My conclusion is that our results are equally good. With a similar number of hammers and population, my game has 40 bpt more, but 10GPPpt less. Popping the next GP will cost 600 beakers and it will probably be used to lightbulb Astronomy, providing 2300 beakers aprox. So each GPP has a value of 4 beakers, resulting in a tie. As game progresses my cottages will become stronger and your GPs weaker.

My interpretation of the data is that, since there was not a clear GPfarm somewhere else, the decision where to place the GPfarm was not easy and led to similar results.

 

[Alraun]

I didn't do a first spoiler and I didn't take notes, so what little I can remember looking at my saves is going in here.

I started by moving onto the ivory. I was able to see that I would have two hills there, so I went ahead and settled Madrid. My second city went down to the flood plains and my third to the gold & gems. I chose to go to the flood plains first because I had not researched Agriculture yet, instead going straight to Pottery, so I wouldn't be able to get the city big enough to use the gold anytime soon, while I could easily make cottages all over those flood plains.

My fourth city was a city I captured from barbarians on the west coast that got the rice, ivory and sugar. I did this with like 7-8 warriors when it was defended by just 2 archers. Due to the flood plains and the gold city, I was able to maintain a pretty steady rate of expansion, and I built 3 more cities, 2 in the jungle and 1 on the north east coast that grabbed the iron. One of my jungle cities ended up being a production powerhouse with 8 hills, a pig and a rice, while the rest of my cities focused on science. I also captured an 8th city from barbarians in the center of the continent that had a couple flood plains, 2 ivory and gems. All in all, a great start for not getting into a war.

I made a couple research mistakes this game, but it worked out ok. I went straight to Pottery, then Writing, then Alphabet. I went to Alphabet thinking I could trade, despite knowing that only Peter was on the continent, I just forgot he wouldn't trade with me without knowing more people. Then, after getting Alphabet and realizing my mistake, I picked up the random square improvement techs I needed (Agriculture, etc., as well as Iron Working to clear jungle), and then I went for Optics so I could go find people. I would have been better off skipping Alphabet, but I think since I did research Alphabet I maybe should have gotten Literacy as well before continuing on. That's a tough call though.

Since I didn't end up building the Great Library, I kept two of the flood plains city's workers (once it was big enough to use all/most of the flood plains) as scientists to get a few Great Scientists. From the start I was planning to go for a space ship victory, so getting out those scientists was important!

After I got Optics, I rushed two caravels and got them out wandering. The first person I found was Caesar, then my other caravel found the continent with Mansa Musa, Ghandi & Hatshepsut. I quickly discovered that with the support of those three, I was going to be able to win a Diplomatic victory pretty easily and changed towards that victory condition. As such, my first Great Scientist ended up going to an Academy for the flood plains city, but all the rest were lightbulbed straight to science.

Throughout the rest of the game, I mostly just traded with those three civs and Caesar. Caesar never got angry at anyone or had anyone angry at him, which was nice. The peaceful civs all hated one of the other three on the third continent and loved each other and me. The others on the third continent all hated the peaceful civs. So Ghengis, Napolean and Montezuma didn't get much love from me.

While I was going to get Optics I was massing up some swordsmen to attack Peter, and attack Peter I did. I took Peter out pretty easily, having a couple macemen wandering around by the end of our war. I ended up keeping 5 of his cities and razing the rest as my science had dropped to 50% or so, but it wasn't long before my cities caught up to the point that I could fill in 3 or 4 more cities. Sometime in here I was definitely attacking Peter with Catapults as well. I think I attacked him shortly before I contacted others and traded for Math/Contruction so I had them shortly into the war, but I'm not 100% sure.

After Optics was pretty much a beeline to Liberalism, then straight to Radio with no stops in between! I built the UN in my production city and won the vote with no problem in 1640 AD.

Note: All 7 religions were founded on the same continent, and Gandhi also built most of the wonders.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I launched in 1909 AD for my first official (no-reloads) Monarch win.

Looks like I might have the same problem I had in Civ3: good starts, poor mid- and endgames While I'm a decent enough warmonger when I get the units handed to me (which the s3otms should show), I'm terrible at the crucial planning and setting-up stage.

So, lessons learnt: I'm still too impatient, hitting the enter button without considering all options. I need to learn some war mongering. The next gotm doesn't seem to be suited, but apart from that I may need to mentally switch on only military wins in the gotms.
Also: I don't generate enough income. Cottage spamming seems the way to overcome that, and better specialisation of cities (which I'm just getting into).

What I did good in the mid-and endgame: I discovered Sugar Island early, got a city there and started putting good naval units in place to block off enemies from Headcase Island. I slipped in my setup and Ceasar captured the city and hung on for around 10 turns. After that, my ships did enough to keep Khan, Monty and Napoleon off the island (they declared on me one by one instead of ganging up on me, which I found strange cause none were very happy with me and they all shared the same religion (Christianity, founded by Khan)).

 

[ngraner42]

Continuing from first spoiler:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4885946&postcount=74

Declared war on Peter in 725 AD and continued the war until he was eliminated in 1220 AD.

I circumnavigated the world in 830 AD and I think I had met everyone at that point. Had good relations with the peaceful continent and poor relations with the other, principally from trading with Gandhi.

In the mid game, the Romans had the second largest population and it looked like I had a good shot at a fairly early diplomatic victory, so I pushed for the UN. I tend to gravitate toward Diplomatic victories as they allow you to freely expand your empire while still requiring progress through the tech tree. I find this more satisfying than going for early conquest or domination. But, as usual with my attempts for an early diplomatic victory, things did not work out. The Egyptians passed up the Romans in population. Mansa and Gandhi still liked me better, but that would not be enough votes. Once Hatty took over the population lead, I should have switched focus to military techs, but instead doggedly continued on to Mass Media, finishing the UN in 1687. The vote was taken and I came up short, so it was on to war. I took out Monty in 1760s and should have had enough votes to win, but inexplicably Mansa voted for Hatty. No defensive pact and a lower diplomatic rating. So I continued warring, taking out the Mongolians and moving on to the French. With the capture of Paris in 1816, I was able to vote myself in without Mansa's vote, but this time he does vote for me . Diplomatic victory 1816 for 52395.

 

[Ronnie1]

As 500 AD eased into the rearview mirror, the Spanish empire consisted of 5 cities. The goal was to get the 9 - 10 total cities needed for a Cultural Victory! War Elephants and Catapults became the order of the day. The plan was to take the core of the Russian cities and leave Peter stuck in the tundra. Two stacks were to be assembled, one for each coast. The eastern stack was the main force and the western stack was the "thorn in the side" force. Both stacks were to make their way northwards and pinch Moscow in between them. Research continued towards Guilds and Nationalism as the stacks began to take shape. By 1220 AD the eastern was stack was ready to begin the march north. It started with 6 Cats, 6 Elephants, an Archer and a Longbow. That assault went basically as planned. The eastern stack took the 1st Russian city that was located S of the Iron on the coast. After briefly healing, it headed inland towards the upper floodplains/elephant city of Yayoi. The western stack consisted of 2 Elephants, 2 Cats and 1 Longbow to start and moved on the lightly held city of Visigoth, it was razed and then the stack healed and moved inland towards Yayoi also. Peter countered lightly in the jungles with some Horse Archers and Swords but they were not much of a threat. To make a long story short, the main stack zig zagged its way form the eastern coast up to the center of the continent and back out to the coast taking 4 cities in all. The western stack auto razed another city on the coast that Peter founded with a single defender in the face of a 5 party stack. Eventually the 2 stacks met at Moscow as planned and then pushed up to the horses in St. Petersberg. I didn't really want to keep as many cities as I ended up with, but I also didn't want to leave Peter with very many assets. I ended with a very uninspiring Cultural Victory in 1899. And why the Lonely Conquistador? 1, uno, singular, the total number of Conquistadors built by the Spanish in this outing!!

 

[EEO]

(No first spoiler). I settled on Ivory for the starting boost, as there were enough hills in the fat cross to ensure production in the long run. I went for Polytheism first and founded Hinduism. The tech path after was: Mining, Bronze working, Masonry (to use Marble seen in the South), Priesthood, The Wheel, Writing (1120 BC). Initial production was workboat, 2 warriors, worker, 2 warriors, settler, 2 warriors, settler, warrior, Oracle (1000 BC).

The research is going slowly at start, but the good production allows the quick foundations of the second and third city that are both a research dream …

Barcelona (second city) was founded near the golds/gem/pig/rice/silk.
Seville (third city) was founded in the flood plain near marble.

So many warriors were necessary to both explore exhaustively and eventually fogbust efficiently (without copper and Archery, security is a concern).

I met Peter in 2380 BC and was happy to have at least a trading partner … So, I skipped most worker techs and decided to build Oracle in order to get Alphabet faster ( never before I have chosen such a cheap tech with Oracle …). Then, I realized that Peter did not want to trade. I was angry with myself , because I should have foreseen it … AI is much more reluctant to trade when knowing only one other civilization. Nevertheless Alphabet was not so bad, because the road towards Literacy was open, with Polytheism already known. With the help of marble and a few forests, Great Library was then the necessary boost for research.

Another bad news: as I researched Iron Working late, I missed the Iron site on the North to Peter.
Without Iron and Horses, conquest of Peter will have to be made first and with Elephants and Catapults …

And yes, Optics and Astronomy are needed. It will difficult to obtain a very high score!

The key events after the beginning:

Turn 145 (325 BC) Mathematics

Turn 153 (205 BC) Barcelona finishes: The Great Library

Turn 156 (160 BC) Construction

Turn 204 (560 AD) Russian War begins

Turn 215 (725 AD) Optics

Three Caravels will be built and sent to explore the world.

Turn 216 (740 AD) French civilization has been eliminated

First time I see an AI civ eliminated by another AI in a GOTM . Later, I will discover it has been done by the Romans.

Turn 228 (920 AD) Contact made: Egyptian Empire

Turn 229 (935 AD) Contact made: Indian Empire

Turn 231 (965 AD) Contact made: Roman Empire

Turn 233 (995 AD) Contact made: Aztec Empire

Turn 234 (1010 AD) Contact made: Mongolian Empire

Turn 237 (1055 AD) Contact made: Malinese Empire

So there are two other continents. One is occupied by the best three builders in vanilla. The other one is occupied by top warmongers only … It is not likely such a situation happens naturally. I’ll bet it’s an Ainwood ‘s experiment …

Turn 255 (1190 AD) Guilds

Turn 273 (1298 AD) Russian Empire eliminated ; Astronomy

Late, late, late: as well for the elimination of Russian Empire as for Astronomy. On the other hand, many Conquistadors, Elephants and Catapults have been built, Galleys and money to upgrade them to Galleons are ready, and many units have won several levels in the Russian war.

The difficult question was, of course, who is next ? I have hesitated many turns. Warmongers were closer (especially Montezuma) , but they had more units with higher levels. Moreover, builders were technologically far ahead and, if I let them quiet too much time, I suspected they will become really dangerous. Finally, when I saw Gandhi getting Education, my decision was made: Indians will be next in order to prevent them obtaining Liberalism (it’s a key tech on the road to Biology).

In fact Indians managed to get Liberalism, but I was nevertheless happy with my decision, because Indian war was very easy and the Great Lighthouse in Delhi helped much my economy.

Turn 299 (1454 AD) Indian War begins

Turn 314 (1532 AD) Indian Empire eliminated

Turn 321 (1553 AD) Malinese War begins

Mansa was at the moment tech leader. Therefore, he is the next one.


Turn 324 (1562 AD) Chemistry

More for Biology than Grenadiers.


Turn 331 (1583 AD) Malinese Empire eliminated


Turn 334 (1592 AD) EgyptianWar begins

Now, it is faster and easier to conquer the whole continent. Moreover, Egyptians have just built Versailles which will prove valuable for Spanish economy …


Turn 346 (1628 AD) Egyptian Empire eliminated

The land domination is already near 50 % (due to high sea level setting) . I must slow down my expansion by conquering just below the domination limit, milk with Biology and finish the game.

Turn 350 (1640 AD) Military Tradition

Not very necessary. But I got 4 Great Artists (very, very unlikely: only National Epic in Barcelona and Heroic Epic in Madrid contributed to them) and the best way to use them was a sequence of lightbulbing with Divine Right, Nationalism, Liberalism and Military Tradition.

Turn 351 (1643 AD) MongolianWar begins

Turn 365 (1685 AD) Mongolian Empire eliminated

I kept only 3 Mongolian cities in order to stay below the domination limit for the remaining turns.

Turn 373 (1709 AD) Biology

Very late. With 4 Great Scientists instead of 4 Great Artists, things would have been different …

Turn 397 (1764 AD) Spain wins a domination victory

[FONT=&quot]3 Aztecs cities were conquered in turn 396, in order to maximize the score.[/FONT]