GOTM 145 spoiler

starlifter · Sep 19, 2013

haleewud
I am not sure what you mean by 'crippling to yourself'. The delivery completely filled the research box. All research done by the city would be added to the box and therefore wasted. The single Einstein was to 'finish' the research while all other city resources were going to tax generation.

Normally in a high-trade village, taking a worker off the land's trade tile (esp. a river-colossus tile) will result in loss of more resources than the benefit of a specialist, such as a Scientist. However, I see from your comment that you must have had a circumstance where you tried it both ways, and the Scientist turned out to be better. I imagine there were not roads and/or 3 trade routes in your villa yet.

I tried it (making a scientist) on my own b1000 save and while science was zero net change, celebration and food were lost (Size 16 city had 1 route, colossus, and no roads). With more routes and roads, hiring a scientist from a trade tile can often net a civ less science in that situation, depending on TLS and TR values

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starlifter
Monarchy can do almost as well, very early on, esp. if Colossus is built, due to the Celebration benefit of Monarchy in OCC.

Click to expand...

haleewud
What do you mean by this? Is it really possible to get celebration growth under Monarchy in OCC?

In Monarchy, celebrating will cause the city to enjoy all the 'city' benefits of Republic (less corruption, less waste, addition of 1 trade arrow for each tile producing a trade arrow)... but not the addition of 1 pop when an extra food is available. If Communism or Fundy celebrates, it will add the trade arrow but still not 'grow'. This is part of the concept behind 'P' ('Power') in PF or PC (or if one were to try it, PM). Creating max trade, and using this to catapult (amplify) science and gold to have great and Powerful game advantage which is not intuitive based on 'conventional' late 1990's and early 2000's Civ II gameplay.

It IS possible to force the growth of Republic in M/C/F (Mon/Com/Fun), but one needs food caravans (not celebrations). Its not as efficient at Republic/Democracy either in terms of micromanagement, nor in terms of resources expended, however.

So my comment context meant that if you celebrate a Monarchy capitol, you can add the trade benefit of Republic, and thus get the same Bonus and Route benefits as Republic would have. But the Happiness computation would be on the basis of Monarchy (Mil units), and no Celebration growth.

starlifter · Sep 19, 2013

I have typed up my log for this OCC.

Mine is not a game that is recommended for proper OCC play

...

Spoiler :

Key Dates

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Log

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Screenies

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Ali Ardavan · Sep 28, 2013

Amazing result Starlifter, despite making a mess of the early game. Of course, hut luck was on your side big time. This is what you got by -3000 out of 15 huts
weeds, code of Laws, horse, horse, Currency, 50g, Archer, Trade, 100g, weeds, barbs,100g, 50g, Literacy, Monarchy
Not a single tech off the path of Monarchy/Republic/Trade. That is amazing.

Interestingly I also tipped 15 huts by -3000 despite getting no units till my 7th hut. By contrast I got no money, plenty of off-path techs, and plenty of weeds:
Horseback riding, weeds, weeds, Warrior Code, Wheel, Pottery, chariot, archer, Trade, archer, seafaring, weeds, barbs, weeds, Ceremonial Burial.

The lack of money hurt me most. My 24th hut was the first one that yielded any gold. At the beginning it is impossible to get money out of rivals because they just do not have any. I only managed to get 2x25g in gifts/tributes.

Ali Ardavan · Sep 28, 2013

+1510 Freight Aqueduct sold
+1520 Freight Rocketry
+1530 Freight
+1540 Freight Amphibious Warfare
+1550 Freight
+1560 Freight Space Flight Spanish demand AdFlight and cancel alliance
Diplomat disbanded. Spent 1140 on Apollo
+1580 Plastics Wool to Seville for 484.
+1600 Superconductor
+1610 Apollo Babylonians build Bach. T1L0S9
Computer -> Babylonian -> Theology, 100g
+1620 SS Module
+1630 SS Module Fusion Power T3L0S7
+1640 SS Module
+1650 SS Component Power dropped back to moderate
+1660 SS Component Future Tech 1
+1670 SS Component Power dropped to Inadequate
+1680 SS Component Genetic Engineering
+1690 SS Component Spanish build Adam Smith
+1700 SS Component Future Tech 2
+1710 SS Structural
+1720 SS Structural Future Tech 3 Americans build SETI
+1730 SS Structural
+1740 SS Structural Guerrilla Warfare
+1750 SS Structural
+1752 SS Structural Future Tech 4
+1754 SS Structural
+1756 SS Structural Future Tech 5
+1758 SS Structural Spanish build UN
+1760 SS Structural Labor Union
+1762 Carthaginians land on my city radius
but withdraw upon my request
+1764 SS Structural Future Tech 6 Carthaginians deliver to Paris
+1766 SS Structural Spanish develop flight
+1768 SS Structural Future Tech 7
+1770 SS Structural Spanish build Hoover dam;
Babylonians build Statue of Liberty
+1772 SS Structural Combined Arms 15s3c1m space ship launched
+1773 Freight
+1774 Freight Future Tech 8 Indians build Eiffel
+1776 Future Tech 9 Wool , Gold to Carthaginians for 424, 654
+1777 Environmentalism
+1779 Future Tech 10
+1781 Cure for Cancer Future Tech 11 T2L0S8
+1783 Great Wall
+1784 Fundamentalism
+1786 Future Tech 12 Superconductor -> Babylonian. T0L10S0
Manhattan is the only wonder not built
I am too poor to rush it.

starlifter · Sep 30, 2013

Ali Ardavan said:
Amazing result Starlifter, despite making a mess of the early game. Of course, hut luck was on your side big time. This is what you got by -3000 out of 15 huts
weeds, code of Laws, horse, horse, Currency, 50g, Archer, Trade, 100g, weeds, barbs,100g, 50g, Literacy, Monarchy
Not a single tech off the path of Monarchy/Republic/Trade. That is amazing.

0. Learn to count basic integers (will be important to learning what Off Path techs are).
1. Hut outcomes had an effect on the path of the game. Of course. Amazing.
2. 'This is what you got' - Learn to read. That is not what I had. Try again. :rolleyes:

3. 'Not a single tech off the path' - Learn what that actually means, and then reread the (whole) log and the comments. Amazing.
4. 'hut luck was on your side big time' - It has been in some games, but not strongly 'on my side' or strongly 'against it' in this one. Amazing. Hut steering was used (left that as an exercise lol), but final outcomes were not as hoped and early game trajectories changed several times based on results (see prior posts).
5. '....by -3000 out of 15 huts' - Amazing that you evidently did not read everything, or if you did, then selectively decided to look at some things and omit others. Try again. :rolleyes:

Amazing.

Ali Ardavan said:
...despite getting no units till my 7th hut...
...My 24th hut was the first one that yielded any gold...

1. >sob<

2. 'no units till my 7th hut' - lol. ROTFL. The game setup said to get a 'fast unit' in the first hut. Hard to believe that you would not have at least two units by #7. Amazing.
3. 'My 24th hut' - That is truly Amazing. Pretty much near-impossible, actually.
4. And the point of systematically arguing with players (e.g., mine, Inkerman's Philosophy outcome, 3250 Rep, and others) about Hut outcomes and gameplay?

Opinion

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Sidebar

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Off Path

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Ali Ardavan said:
...only managed to get 2x25g in gifts/tributes.

1. You seem to have a crude and incomplete grasp of this part of the MGE game.
2. No sidebar here, but you can rarely force diplomacy in MGE with MP alone (e.g, no other actions by the human), lol. :lol:

PS

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GOTM 145 spoiler

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