GOTM 146 Spoiler

[Inkerman]

Maybe the tech story is interesting. Maybe I have played a bit differently (see other recent GotM threads!)

I have not finished the game yet, and although there may be a few decisions to come, the course has been determined. I have quite enjoyed managing about a dozen cities - it has been at the far end of the scale in terms of city improvements. Often, like many players here, I can get a long way in before anywhere but the SSC gets much in the way of buildings, but this time the construction folk have had plenty to do. But as above maybe the tech story will provide for interesting comparison.

An earlier post suggested games might not diverge significantly until after MPE, despite differing choices over city sites - including that for an SSC.

A more recent post suggested I expected to slip further behind in the space race through not giving enough tech to the Mongols to keep research costs down. This was to try and avoid any fighting until the late game.

In fact I allowed quite a tech gap until 1000, and then closed it with a gift of 10 techs to exploit my new large well equipped SSC, before allowing the gap to increase again, and closing it again just before 1500.

AD1 recap: 9 city 39 population Republic, 23 techs, SSC at Melbourne, size 8, Aqueduct just built.

40- 10th city
80- Melbourne reaches size 12. Trade to get Monotheism.
140- Discover Navigation.
280- Discover Physics.
360- SSC builds Copernicus Observatory.
380- Build Michaelangelo Chapel.
420- Trade for University.
480- SSC adds University. Discover ToG.
500- SSC builds Isaac Newton College.

Stats: 10 cities population 69, 28 techs.

540- Discover Wheel.
600- Discover Engineering.
660- Discover Sanitation.
680- SSC adds sewers.
700- Discover Economics. Barb attack kills 2 vans in SSC and takes population down 2.
800- Discover Invention.
820- Complete Magellan Expedition.
860- Discover Democracy. Become Democracy. SSC size 20. Trade for Chemistry.
880- Found 11th city.
940- SSC reaches size 24, max for now.
960- Discover Steam Engine. Trade for Iron Working.
1000- Found 12th city.

Stats: 12 cities population 113, 37 techs.

1020- Discover Atomic Theory.
1040- Discover Gunpowder.
1080- Discover Magnetism.
1100- Discover Explosives.
1120- Discover Bridge Building. Trade for Warrior Code.
1140- Build Leonardo's Workshop.
1160- Discover Metallurgy.
1200- Discover Electricity.
1220- Discover Feudalism.
1260- Discover Theology.
1300- Discover Refrigeration.
1340- Build JSBach Cathedral. Discover Conscription.
1360- SSC size 26.
1380- Discover Chivalry. Trade for Railroad. Found 13th city.
1400- Darwin's Voyage discovers Leadership and Industrialization.
1440- Discover Corporation.
1460- Discover Refining.
1500- Discover Steel.

Stats: 13 cities population 161, 56 techs.

 

[Major Advantage]

Inkerman, did you trade much during 1-500 AD? I did a lot with the Mongols and with Melbourne, some poor payouts achieved unblocking commodities. I think a Major Disadvantage of your game is that you had to discover the wheel by yourself in 540 AD! I got it via Marco in 1150 BC! Maybe it would have been better to discover it yourself earlier as you need it for San., Inv., Demo, RR, Ind, Corp.....

My next 520 years (didn' keep a save from 500) went on like this:

Stats at 1AD
pop.: 1.81M; cities: 9; techs: 24; gov: Rep, gold: 59, cost per turn: 9, Trade Routes: 5D/5F
units: 5 settler, 8 army, 3 boat, 5 vans, 2 dip
Wonders: MPE, HG, Colossus, Shakespeare
SSC: Market, Lib, Aqua, Sewer, HG, Coloss., Shakes, size 15 and growing

+20 Astro->Chem.
80 Melbourne builds Copernicus
120 Chem.->Gravity
160 gems(d)>Melbourne 204
180 Grav.->Banking(600); salt(d) 144; silk(u) 92, get Banking from Aztecs, now 624 beakers requiered, trying to pull the trigger and...
200 Research economics, failed to trigger ; get IW from Mongols, Darwin founded
220 Econ.->Bridge; Melbourne maxed out for now at size 25
240 coal (d) 370; beads(u) 216; get Navigation from Mongols
260 Bridge->Phys.;
280 Phys.->Invent.(744); coal(d)>Melbourne only 135
320 Inv.->Magn.
360 Mag->Gunpowd.
400 Gunp.->Steam(816); Newton college; silk(d) 544, copper(d) 92; decide not to deliver freights but put them into Darwin for faster Corporation
420 Steam->Demo;
460 Democracy(est.)->Railroad(936); want to get feudalism from Mongols, they use Sun Tzu-excuse, max beaker 806@ 100%
480 Mongols still refuse, couldn't get anything else to go straight for Corp.
500 Railroad->Metallurgy; 150g for barb leader in Papua
520 Darwin built in Botany Bay (was more convenient here than in Darwin itself), Metall->Industr.->Corp.

Stats at 520 AD
pop.: 4.39M; cities: 10; techs: 41; gov: Demo, gold: 176, cost per turn: 39, Trade Routes: 6D/11F
units: 2 settler, 9 army, 3 boat, 0 vans, 4 dip
Wonders: MPE, HG, Colossus, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin
SSC: Market, lib, city walls, aqua, bank, univers., sewer; HG, Coloss., Copernicus, Shakes, Newton; size 25 (maxed out for now)

 

[Inkerman]

Inkerman... I think a Major Disadvantage of your game is that you had to discover the wheel by yourself in 540 AD!

Delightfully observed.

And so we re-learn that it is not just the number of techs,

you need it for San., Inv., Demo, RR, Ind, Corp.....

but that some are more important than others.

 

[Inkerman]

Inkerman, did you trade much during 1-500 AD? I did a lot with the Mongols and with Melbourne, some poor payouts achieved unblocking commodities.

5 domestic (1 same continent) and 2 foreign deliveries in this period.

Van, Wellington-Melbourne(SSC), Wool (und), for 62g.
Van, Adelaide-Dunedin, Copper, for 84g.
Van, Dunedin-Samarkand(Mongol), Beads(und), for 136g.
Van, Brisbane-Auckland, Dye, for 68g.
Van, Melbourne(SSC)-Karakorum(Mongol), Beads, for 429g.
Van, Papua-Melbourne(SSC), Gems, for 171g.
Van, Melbourne(SSC)-Darwin, Salt, for 42g.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

-0475 Makasar founded.
-0450 Pottery, Wheel -> American -> Republic, Construction. Revolution started. Construction, Wheel -> Mongol -> Polytheism.
-0425 Colossus built. Republic established. T1L8S1
-0400 All but one of the eligible cities celebrate. Melville founded.
-0375 5 citizens added via celebrations. Cannot maintain this for long.
-0350 5 citizens added via celebrations. T2L6S2. Perth founded.
-0325 Polytheism -> American -> Engineering
-0300 3 citizens added via celebrations.
-0275 1 citizens added via celebrations. Gems from Wellington to Bokhara for 346 establishes the first trade route. T0L4S6
-0250 Math -> Monotheism. Salt to Samarkand for 192. T3L4S3
-0100 Darwin founded. Silver to Caledonia for 80 establishes the first domestic trade route.
-0075 Monotheism -> Seafaring. Domestic wool for 100. Jayapura founded.
-0050 Monotheism -> American -> Invention. Jakarta founded.
-0025 Michelangelo built. A wave of celebrations follow. Domestic delivery for 62.

Status at +1
Population: 1.3M; Cities: 18; Techs: 25; Government: Republic
Gold: 33; Cost: 3; Trade routes: 6D2F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo
Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 13 Warriors, 1 chariot, 3 Trireme, 5 vans
Goals: Seafaring, expansion in Oceania, Copernicus
Footprint: 2 cities in southern NZ, 1 in northern NZ, 8 in Australia, 1 in Tasmania, 1 in New Caledonia, 2 in New Guinea, 1 in East Timor, 1 in 19, 1 in Indonesia.
Russians: 4 cities, 16 techs; war with Mongols
Zulu: destroyed by barbarians
Aztec: 3 cities, 18 techs
American: 5 cities, 22 techs; Pyramids
English: 1 cities, 10 techs
Mongol: 6 cities, 19 techs; war with Russians

+0020 First Library built in science city.
+0060 Spice to Mongols for 102. 6 barbarian horsemen from first African hut kill my warrior the next turn.
+0080 Seafaring -> Sanitation. Domestic Silver for 70.
+0100 Beads to Mongols for 156. Domestic Dye for 42.
+0160 Sanitation -> Astronomy.
+0220 Gems to Mongols for 204.
+0240 Brunei founded.
+0280 Astronomy -> University. None Crusader from NE Asian hut.
+0320 Beads from my capital to Mongol capital for 276.
+0360 University -> Chemistry. 4 barbarian horsemen from hut. None crusader kills one and turns vet but is killed by the other ones next turn.
+0380 Deliveries to Mongols for 90, 150
+0400 Mongols build Sun Tzu.
+0420 Domestic deliveries for 88, 48. Sanitation -> American -> Democracy. Tech bombed Mongols and Russians to get their maps.
+0440 Chemistry -> Navigation. Revolution started.
+0460 Democracy established. T6L3S1

Status at +0500
Population: 5.4M; Cities: 19; Techs: 31; Government: Democracy
Gold: 58; Cost: 35; Trade routes: 14D8F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo
Units: 5 Settlers (1 None), 12 Warriors, 1 chariot, 4 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 10 vans
Goals: Expansion in Oceania (2 more cities planned), a city in Sri Lanka, colonizing Madagascar, Leo (in two turns) to beat Americans to it, Copernicus, Magellan
Footprint: 2 cities in southern NZ, 1 in northern NZ, 8 in Australia, 1 in Tasmania, 1 in New Caledonia, 2 in New Guinea, 1 in East Timor, 1 in 19, 1 in Indonesia, 1 in Brunei
Russians: 5 cities, 30 techs; war with Americans and Mongols
Zulu: destroyed by barbarians
Aztec: 4 cities, 19 techs
American: 5 cities, 24 techs; Pyramids; war with Russians
English: 1 cities, 10 techs
Mongol: 5 cities, 30 techs; Sun Tzu; war with Russians

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Stats at 520 AD
pop.: 4.39M; cities: 10; techs: 41; gov: Demo, gold: 176, cost per turn: 39, Trade Routes: 6D/11F
units: 2 settler, 9 army, 3 boat, 0 vans, 4 dip
Wonders: MPE, HG, Colossus, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin

You built Newton and Darwin but not Michelangelo?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

The period from +1 to +500 was almost exclusively dedicated to vertical growth (increasing population of existing cities). Only 1 city was added in that period and no wonders were built. The settlers were busy improving terrain and production was dedicated to commodity vans for new trade routes and growth infrastructure (Harbor, Marketplace, Temple, and Aqueduct).

In the period from +500 to +1000, vertical growth remained the primary focus particularly since we switched to Democracy in +460. But it was not to the exclusion of all else; we had some catching up to do. 3 new cities were founded and 3 important wonders built. Foreign trade which was limited to Mongols before this period was expanded to include Russians and Aztecs.

+0540 Leo built. Padang founded.
+0560 Cloth to Mongols for 120. T4L3S3
+0580 Aztecs build Great Library.
+0600 Barbarian Legion lands next to Padang. Navigation -> Physics. Philippines founded. Empty Caravel lost in attack on barbarians after evacuating settler and explorer.
+0620 Aztecs build King Richards. Barbarians capture Padang.
+0640 Science city of Caledonia reaches size 20 and cannot celebrate anymore despite having temple, colosseum, and Hanging Gardens.
+0680 Physics -> Magnetism.
+0720 Padang bribed back for 52g. Got 2 legions!
+0740 Magnetism -> Banking. University -> Aztec -> Banking, maps. Coal, Silk to Bokhara for 320, 276. T3L3S4
+0760 -> Economics -> Gunpowder. Spice to Tabriz for 174.
+0780 Beads to Russians for 152. Navigation -> American -> Gunpowder. Gunpowder -> Mongol -> Chivalry.
+0800 -> Explosives -> Metallurgy. Silk to Tenochtitlan for 540. Invention -> Aztec -> Bridge Building.
+0820 SriLanka founded. Beads to Kiev for 304.
+0840 Metallurgy -> Theory of Gravity. Salt, Copper to Aztecs for 284, 612.
+0860 Theory of Gravity -> Electricity. Copernicus built.
+0880 Domestic Copper for 174.
+0900 Electricity -> Atomic Theory.
+0920 Magellan built. None musketeer from African hut. Gems to Tabriz for 282.
+0940 Atomic Theory -> Conscription.
+0960 Spice to Mongols for 462.
+0980 Barbarians kill my explorer. Conscription -> Steam Engine. Salt, Silk to Aztecs for 244, 360. Domestic Beads for 92.
+1000 Steam Engine -> Refrigeration. Navigation -> Mongol, Russian, English -> maps. Astronomy -> Aztec, American -> maps. Silver to Mongols for 75.

Status at +1000
Population: 13.9M; Cities: 22; Techs: 46; Government: Democracy
Gold: 925; Cost: 104; Trade routes: 17D21F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan, Leo
Units: 5 Engineers (1 None), 15 Riflemen, 1 crusader, 4 Galleon, 2 Diplomats, 16 vans
Goals: 2 cities in Madagascar, 1 in Hawaii, Newton, more Engineers for terrain improvement
Footprint: 2 cities in southern NZ, 1 in northern NZ, 8 in Australia, 1 in Tasmania, 1 in New Caledonia, 2 in New Guinea, 1 in East Timor, 1 in 19, 2 in Indonesia, 1 in Brunei, 1 in Philippines, 1 in Sri Lanka.
Russians: 6 cities, 33 techs;
Zulu: destroyed by barbarians
Aztec: 4 cities, 32 techs; Great Library, King Richards
American: 5 cities, 32 techs; Pyramids;
English: 1 cities, 12 techs
Mongol: 5 cities, 34 techs; Sun Tzu; war with Russians

 

[Major Advantage]

You built Newton and Darwin but not Michelangelo?

Right. As mentioned earlier, I was playing for early landing. With limited number of city sites, I was basically following solo's ELG and concluded that there would be better things to do with a vans than put them into Michelangelo. Furthermore, nobody on the planet had discovered polytheism until the very end! (Except for the barbarians obviously, I bribed a crusader from them) So would not only have been 8 vans, but 2 off-path techs as well.
Newton was important for the SSC and Darwin seemed to be a worthwhile shortcut towards corporation.

 

[Major Advantage]

Here are my next 500 (or to be precisely: 480) years:
My initial plan for EL was working well, and I did not feel the need for more cities that are "just cities". Hawaii and Madagascar seemed to be too far away to be connected to our rail/ship-network, Sri Lanka and Caledonia also, plus there were djungles to irrigate. I thought about settling on the phillipines, but mogol units were already patroling there. Captain Hindsight says that a city in southern Sumatra would have been useful that could have been connected to Darwin with just one boat. Well, too late for that.
Trade came along nicely in this period (at least until flight), all freight was sent either to the mongols or to Melbourne (for payout, trade routes and unblocking commodities).
At some point (that later turned out to be a very right moment) I went through the Suez Canal for one very distant island to gain a foothold in the northern atlantic ocean and later allowing airfreight to England, America and Aztecs.

540 Corp.->Electr.(1080);
580 Electr.->Expl.
600 deliveries for 216, 102, 292
620 Expl.->Steel
640 Steel->Ref.; Mongol ship blocking passage...
680 Refining->Electron.; 292, 88, 132, 270
700 Electron.->Combust.(1215); 88,89 (2 comodities unblocked in Melbourne)
720 Comb.->Automob.; 184, 858, 228
740 Auto.->Mass Prod.; Melbourne builds SH, 276
760 Mass Prod.->Conscr.; 282 Not many more commodities to build...
780 Conscr.->Atomic Th.; set sails for Iceland with settler and explorer
820 A.T.->Nucl. Fiss(1500); 345, 136
840 Fiss.->N.Power; 9,1020
(Mongols develop chivalry, just in time)
860 Power->Flight(1590); get chivalry from Mongols; 228, 248, 522
880 Flight->Refriger.(1620); 102, ???
900 Refr.->Radio
920 ???
940 Radio->Leadership; Reykjavik founded, start with airport there
960 50g from Greenland hut; silk(d) for lousy 176
980 Leadership->Laser;
1000 barbs in Greenland; deliveries 180, 97

Stats at 1000 AD
pop.: 4.42M; cities: 11; techs: 59; gov: Demo, gold: 4008, cost per turn: 54, Trade Routes: 11D/18F
units: 1 settler, 3 engineers, 9 army, 7 boat, 14 vans, 5 dip, 1 explorer
Wonders: MPE, HG, Colossus, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin
SSC: Market, lib, city walls, aqua, bank, univers., sewer, SH, harbor, airport; HG, Colossus, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Right. As mentioned earlier, I was playing for early landing. With limited number of city sites, I was basically following solo's ELG and concluded that there would be better things to do with a vans than put them into Michelangelo. Furthermore, nobody on the planet had discovered polytheism until the very end! (Except for the barbarians obviously, I bribed a crusader from them) So would not only have been 8 vans, but 2 off-path techs as well.

How did you keep happiness in your cities for growth? Colosseums?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

My initial plan for EL was working well, and I did not feel the need for more cities that are "just cities". Hawaii and Madagascar seemed to be too far away to be connected to our rail/ship-network, Sri Lanka and Caledonia also, plus there were jungles to irrigate. I thought about settling on the phillipines, but mogol units were already patroling there. Captain Hindsight says that a city in southern Sumatra would have been useful that could have been connected to Darwin with just one boat. Well, too late for that.

Both Hawaii and Madagascar are reachable in one turn with a ship chain consisting of two ships if you had Magellan which I did. If not it would take three. I settled Hawaii in the 1100s and Madagascar in late 1200s. Sri Lanka and Caledonia are reachable by one ship in one turn. Both plus many other sites (East Timor), good spots on New Guinea, and others were jungles of course as you pointed out. If you have skipped all these locations, were did you build your cities? Just Australia and New Zealand?

540 Corp.->Electr.(1080);
580 Electr.->Expl.
600 deliveries for 216, 102, 292
620 Expl.->Steel
640 Steel->Ref.; Mongol ship blocking passage...
680 Refining->Electron.; 292, 88, 132, 270
700 Electron.->Combust.(1215); 88,89 (2 comodities unblocked in Melbourne)
720 Comb.->Automob.; 184, 858, 228
740 Auto.->Mass Prod.; Melbourne builds SH, 276
760 Mass Prod.->Conscr.; 282 Not many more commodities to build...
780 Conscr.->Atomic Th.; set sails for Iceland with settler and explorer
820 A.T.->Nucl. Fiss(1500); 345, 136
840 Fiss.->N.Power; 9,1020
(Mongols develop chivalry, just in time)
860 Power->Flight(1590); get chivalry from Mongols; 228, 248, 522

What is the point of achieving Flight so early? You have skipped Mini, Computers, and many other techs which are useful in favor of Flight. This is puzzling because Flight reduces delivery bonuses and expires Colossus both of which are siginificant disadvantages in a peaceful landing game. (In a war game, the fighter is a big advantage for both offense and reconnaissance.) You need computers for space flight so this is not going to allow you to start the space race any earlier either.

 

[Major Advantage]

How did you keep happiness in your cities for growth? Colosseums?

My cities were never intended to grow by celebration because of unhappiness. At least not further than size 6. By 1000, I had 9 tempels, 4 collossei and 1 courthouse. The point was to always allow 100% science without running into disorder. I don't think I spent any income on luxuries during this era. Even Melbourne stayed at size 25 until lunch.

Both Hawaii and Madagascar are reachable in one turn with a ship chain consisting of two ships if you had Magellan which I did. If not it would take three. I settled Hawaii in the 1100s and Madagascar in late 1200s. Sri Lanka and Caledonia are reachable by one ship in one turn. Both plus many other sites (East Timor), good spots on New Guinea, and others were jungles of course as you pointed out. If you have skipped all these locations, were did you build your cities? Just Australia and New Zealand?

Mostly. By 1000 I had 2 cities in NZL, 6 in Australia, Papua, Borneo and Reykjavik. As said before, I was following the ELG-path, so the cities basical purpose is to build vans for SSC-wonders, ships for ship-chains and some freights to be worth cashed in.

What is the point of achieving Flight so early? You have skipped Mini, Computers, and many other techs which are useful in favor of Flight. This is puzzling because Flight reduces delivery bonuses and expires Colossus both of which are siginificant disadvantages in a peaceful landing game. (In a war game, the fighter is a big advantage for both offense and reconnaissance.) You need computers for space flight so this is not going to allow you to start the space race any earlier either.

Yes, the flight penalty was hard. But I was running out of good trade opportunities. So flight and radio (with airports) opens a new window to trade with England, America and Aztecs. After Reykjavik, I founded Nantucket and Cuba for that purpose. And deliveries from those cities to Melbourne were great and probably better than undemanded deliveries from Melbourne to the Mongols.

 

[haleewud]

Development seemed a bit slow during this period. 5 new cities were established in the second half (Hawaii, Sumatra (Medan), Sri Lanka, Madagascar (Tulear) and New Caledonia). I still haven't attempted sailling into the Atlantic.
Trade was pretty ordinary with no really big payouts. Most deliveries were made to the Aztecs (10) and Zulus (7). I also had to pay tribute to the agressive Russians, Mongols and Zulus.
I disbanded my last Musketeer in 880AD. I can't remember ever having no military units.

+20 ToG -> Economics (528), Give Mongols Astronomy (GL) and Pottery, Trade ToG (GL) to Mongols for Wheel (GL) (522), Auckland Dye to Karakorum 256, Dunedin Beads to Karakorum 344
+40 Economics -> Engineering (576)
+100 Pay Russians 100 Tribute
+120 Cairns Beads to Bokhara 208
+140 Engineering -> Invention (600), Manila Spice to Minsk 132
+160 Russianns capture Bokhara (get ToG), Pay 50 tribute to Zulus
+180 Moscow builds Colossus, Madang Salt to Ulundi 240, T/L/S = 0/3/7
+200 Invention -> Navigation (624), Adelaide Hides to Moscow 176, Brunei Beads to Ulundi 96
+280 Melbourne builds Leo's, Navigation -> Physics (702)
+320 Pay 50 tribute to Mongols, Peace (?), Trade Nav(GL) for IW (GL), Give Engineering (GL) to Mongols, (672), exchange maps
+440 Barbs capture Isandhlwana, Physics -> Magentism (754), Adelaide Hides to Zimbabwe 140
+460 Cairns Gems to Tenochtitlan 180, Rockhampton Silk to Tenochtitlan 180
+480 Zulus capture Minsk (Philo), Zulus get Astronomy from Russians for Polytheism, Peace
+500 Moscow builds Copernicus, Magnetism -> Gunpowder (780), Madang Silk to NY 288

stats at +500:
pop.: 1.66M; cities: 11; techs: 32, gov: Republic, gold: 525; trade routes: 0D15F; cost/turn:14
units: 2 Settler, 2 Warriors, 4 Galleon, 11 Caravan
wonders: HG, MPE, Leo's
Footprint: 2 cities in New Zealand, 5 cities in Australia, 1 city in New Guinea, 1 city in Phillipines, 1 city in Borneo, 1 City in Timor


Russians 23 Tech, 6 Cities, 541g, Republic, Colossus, Copernicus
Zulus: 18 Tech, 4 cities, 641g, Republic
Aztecs: 19 Tech, 3 cities, 456g, Republic
Americans: 31 Tech, 3 cities, 540g, Republic, GL
English: 9 Tech, 1 city, 161g, Monarchy
Mongols: 29 Tech, 4 cities, 592g, Republic


+520 New Caledonia founded
+540 Melbourne Salt to Kashgar 216
+560 Gunpowder -> Democracy (806), Rockhampton builds Magellan
+600 Brunei Salt to Teotihuacan 188, T/L/S = 0/7/3 (slowing science to delay Democracy to next OEDO, also used the time to celebrate)
+620 WLTCD in 9 cities
+660 Dunedin builds Pyramids, WLTCD ends in 2 cities, 3 million
+680 Manila WLTCD, WLTCD ends in 4 cities, Hawaii founded
+700 Washington builds KRC, Democracy -> Explosives (832), Democracy established, Trade Democracy to Americans for Bridge Building (891), Adelaide Cloth to Tlatelolco 225, Melbourne Silk to Boston 520, Dunedin Coal to Brunei 147
+720 New York builds Shakespeare, Explosives -> St. Engine (918), Perth Silk to Teotihuacan 450
+740 Dunedin Salt to Manila 158
+760 St.Engine -> Railroad (945)
+780 Teotihuacan builds GW, Tulear founded, Pay 100 Tribute to Mongols, Give Mongols INV (GL), Gunpowder (GL), Trade St.Engine for HBR (972), Manila Silk to Washington 408, Brunei Silk to Minsk 126
+800 Mongols/Russians cancel Peace, Railroad -> Metallurgy (999), Adelaide Hides to Zimbabwe 118, Give Americans RR, Trade RR to Aztecs for Monotheism (GL) (1026), Give RR and Physics (GL) to Mongols (still 1026)
+820 Timor Silk to Auckland 108
+860 Nishapur builds Newtons, Medan Founded
+880 Russians develop Feudalsim, Metallurgy -> Industrialization (1053), New Caledonia Spice to Samarkand 152, Melbourne Gems to Tenochtitlan 264
+900 Rockhampton Coal to Tenochtitlan 190
+920 Industrialization -> Electricity (1080)
+940 Pay 50 Tribute to Zulus, Give Zulus RR+Gun+Nav, exchange maps
+960 Mongols capture Sevastopol (Feudalism), Brunei Spice to Ulundi 184
+980 Sri Lanka founded
+1000 Electricity -> Corporation (1107), Hawaii Gems to Zimbabwe 180, Cairns Silk to Tenochtitlan 232, Dunedan Wool to Tenochtitlan 176

stats at +1000:
pop.: 3.46M; cities: 16; techs: 43, gov: Democracy, gold: 621; trade routes: 7D22F; cost/turn:27
units: 3 Engineers, 6 Transport, 13 Caravan
wonders: Pyramids, HG, MPE, Magellan's, Leo's
Footprint: 2 cities in New Zealand, 5 in Australia, 1 in New Guinea, 1 in Phillipines, 1 in Borneo, 1 in Timor, 1 in Hawaii, 1 in Sumatra, 1 in Sri Lanka, 1 in New Caledonia, 1 in Madagascar


Russians 25 Tech, 6 Cities, 624g, Republic, Colossus, Copernicus
Zulus: 23 Tech, 5 cities, 840g, Republic
Aztecs: 23 Tech, 3 cities, 676g, Republic, GW
Americans: 41 Tech, 3 cities, 852g, Republic, GL, KRC, Shakespeare
English: 9 Tech, 1 city, 183g, Monarchy
Mongols: 36 Tech, 7 cities, 954g, Republic, Newton's

 

[Major Advantage]

+180 Moscow builds Colossus
...
+500 Moscow builds Copernicus

So you chose to play this game without SSC? I thought an SSC to be pretty essential in this game with no opportunity for a big empire.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+180 Moscow builds Colossus, Madang Salt to Ulundi 240, T/L/S = 0/3/7
+280 Melbourne builds Leo's, Navigation -> Physics (702)
+500 Moscow builds Copernicus, Magnetism -> Gunpowder (780), Madang Silk to NY 288
+560 Gunpowder -> Democracy (806), Rockhampton builds Magellan
+660 Dunedin builds Pyramids, WLTCD ends in 2 cities, 3 million

I can surmise that you missed out on Colossus. But what about Copernicus? You could have certainly built that instead of Leo. I myself built Leo centuries before Copernicus and at a time that it was not useful yet. But in my case it was the Americans who discovered Invention first and I was lucky they traded it to me. They soon started working on Leo and I wanted to beat them to it (No one had discovered Astronomy yet). Maybe after losing out on Colossus you just gave up the idea of building an SSC.

 

[haleewud]

I probably could have gotten Colossus, but I was more concerned with getting Leo's. Part of the reason was I couldn't decide if Melbourne was really a good SSC site (with pheasant, hills and forest and no trade specials). Once I passed on Colossus, skipping Copernicus and Newton made sense to me. BTW, I only built the Pyramids to take it away from the Aztecs (and for the points).

 

[haleewud]

Sometimes, I get really tired of the AI's blatant disregard for the rules.

It is late in the game. I have launched a 33-8-8-2-2-2 spaceship (7.6 years) and am just playing out the end. During one of my turns, I notice there are a stack of Zulu bombers inside of the Havana City limits. These bombers are 17 squares away from the nearest Zulu city. When I hit 'end of turn', the Bombers move further away (one square) and sneak attack Havana, destroying a transport. These bombers should have died either one or two before they could attack Havana.

 

[haleewud]

I had been fearing a sneak attack for a long time prior to starting my SpaceShip, so I had built a fairly large number of spies (15 to 20) and a couple of Tanks. So on the turn after the sneak attack, I moved some spies and tanks to Madagascar. I also built a Stealth Fighter and a Cruise Missile in Madagascar and another CM in Sri Lanka. On the next turn, I used the Air power to kill the defenders in Zimbabwe and Ulundi (the defender order in Zimbabwe was transport, phalanx and rifleman). After the defenders were removed, the spies were turned loose, Zimbabwe was poisoned 3 times and Ulundi 5 times. Then the size one cities were sacked by one of my units (Ulundi was sacked by a bribed catapult).

It was probably a bit of a waste of time, but you just can't let those things go unpunished.

There were 2 other sneak attacks in the game.

The first actually came the same turn as the strange Zulu attack. The Americans attacked and killed a Cloth Freight that was waiting next to New York. On that turn there was another Silk Freight stacked with a spy on a different square near New York. I am not sure why they didn't kill that one.

The other came from the Mongols as the landing was about to take place. They only attacked with one unit (a bomber, I believe) and my Veteran Mech Inf supported by a SAM base was able to survive the attack.

 

[Major Advantage]

The endgame was very peaceful here. I kept some distance to th mongols by not settling the philipines and built UN soon after launch. England was wiped out by barbs and I bribed a Zulu city on the antilles.
But something way more astonishing happened here: The Barbarians have developed Bronze-Working! Well, they kept New York for as long as I can tell, Zimbabwe until after 1000 AD and finally London.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+1020 Barbarian Frigate near eastern New Guinea. Domestic Silk for 165.
+1040 Barbarian Frigate has not place to unload. Russians build Shakespeare. Refrigeration -> Railroad. Silk to Mongols for 366.
+1060 Mongols build Statue of Liberty. Silk to Aztecs for 366.
+1080 Railroad -> Warrior Code. Silk to Aztecs for 300. Railroad -> Russian -> Warrior Code. T2L2S6.
+1100 Russians start Darwin. -> Industrialization -> Corporation. Foreign deliveries for 291, 200. T0L2S8
+1120 Corporation -> Refining. Hawaii founded. T4L2S4
+1140 Spice to St. Pete for 450, salt to Boston for 388.
+1160 Refining -> Steel. Newton built. Spice to Mongols for 396. Railroad -> Mongol -> Leadership. Silk to Moscow for 564.
+1180 Steel -> Combustion. Spice to Moscow for 270. Deliveries to Americans for 220, 435.
+1200 Combustion -> Automobile. Silk to Washington for 486. Domestic deliveries for 231, 126. T2L2S6
+1220 Automobile -> Feudalism. Beads to Philadelphia for 256. Metallurgy, Conscription -> Mongol -> Feudalism, maps.
+1240 -> Genetic Engineering -> Theology. 3 Superhighways built. T0L2S8
+1260 Theology -> Fundamentalism. T4L2S4
+1280 Cure built. Copper to NY for 400. MadagascarN founded. Copper to Barbarian Zimbabwe for 280.
+1300 Fundamentalism -> Electronics. Silk to Boston for 522. T3L2S5
+1320 Electronics -> Tactics. Foreign deliveries for 186, 510. Domestic Oil for 304. Tech bombed Mongols reducing research cost by about 300.
+1340 Tactics -> Machine Tools. Science city maxes out at size 23. Silk to Mongols for 354. MadagascarS founded.
+1360 Machine Tools -> Mass Production.
+1400 Mass Production -> Mini. Dye to Mongols for 200.
+1420 Americans build Adam Smith. Bach built. Mini -> Computers. Beads to Aztecs for 252.
+1440 4 offshore platforms built. Beads to Aztecs for 528.
+1460 Mongols build Suffrage. Computers -> Recycling. Destroyer sinks barbarian frigate which had been parked at eastern New Guinea since 1040.
+1480 Russians build Darwin. Recycling -> Flight. T6L2S2
+1500 Silver to Boston for 805. Domestic Gold for 576.

Status at +1500
Population: 26.7M; Cities: 25; Techs: 67; Government: Democracy
Gold: 1982; Cost: 250; Trade routes: 23D39F;
Ancient Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach, Newton
Modern Wonders: Cure
Units: 9 Engineers (1 None), 22 soldiers, 1 Destroyer, 5 Transports, 2 Diplomats, 16 vans
Goals: Hoover (in 3 turns), Space race
Footprint: 2 cities in southern NZ, 1 in northern NZ, 8 in Australia, 1 in Tasmania, 1 in New Caledonia, 2 in New Guinea, 1 in East Timor, 1 in 19, 2 in Indonesia, 1 in Brunei, 1 in Philippines, 1 in Sri Lanka, 1 in Hawaii, 2 in Madagascar
Russians: 6 cities, 41 techs; Shakespeare, Darwin; War with Mongols
Zulu: destroyed by barbarians
Aztec: 4 cities, 35 techs; Great Library, King Richards
American: 6 cities, 36 techs; Pyramids, Adam Smith;
English: 1 cities, 16 techs
Mongol: 8 cities, 59 techs; Sun Tzu, Liberty, Suffrage; war with Russians