GOTM 148 Spoiler

[Inkerman]

I'm going to start the spoiler, as the conditions that we normally use before looking at the spoiler are satisfied early in this game.

And yes I know I set this - but I don't know what is best, and how this is going to work out.

I do think the barbarian factor is less important than the terrain considerations at this stage. I am not going to think about barbarians just yet. Later it may mean I build more phalanxes and fewer warriors.

Regardless of whether this is going to be conquest or spaceship we have to get going. And although the site we are at has a lot of potential, this is not a great area for food.

If we do found Moscow in the starting square - as seems likely - how much early hut popping should we plan to do? Should we do little, with the aim of making sure we can become a monarchy before too long - because that will make a big difference with cities on irrigated grassland and workers mainly on specials.

Are there alternatives? The most obvious is to go hut popping before settling. This can be a powerful way to start a game. We can expect to get some NON units, some techs, and some money. Once we have money and/or several units we could settle, and use the money/units to speed a size 1 settler.

Another option is to simply move somewhere: the Chinese don't need all that space to the east! If we prefer it would be early enough in the game to re-locate to the more confined lands of India, Spain or Germany, or there's even an area of grassland by the ocean to the north-west.

I don't find it so easy to evaluate all these, but decide I will found Moscow immediately, because I like the central position, and I will pop a few huts to see what develops. I think if the starting square was swamp rather than grassland I would just go and pop huts, because I prefer that to settling in a less good place or spending the first ten turns just moving. It'll be a nice bonus if an AT or nomad appears, and not so great when barbarians appear. How's my luck?

We note the top 5 cities.

4000- Found Moscow. Start on Alphabet. Priority warriors. Food and shields.
3950-
3900-
3850- Switch worker to grapes as only 1 shield needed to complete warrior.
3800- Completes warrior - goes west.
3750-
3700- Discover Alp -> CoL. Hut: Archers. Barb cities have reduced to size 1?
3650-
3600- Hut: Horse. That is two shields being used for units now!
3550- Hut: 50g. Allows PRB.
3500- Hut: Nomads - lucky - how do we best take advantage - should they settle or use the free assistance to drain swamp?

I am pleased with the way this has worked out so far. Making 4 pops and avoiding barbs and techs with them has been fortunate. Using shields for the units is a drawback, and this inclines me to found the second city now so I can rehome the warriors that popped the hut.
Found StPetersburg (19,31). It has access to spice. Rehome warriors.

 

[Inkerman]

3450- Hut: nomads!
Again. Our luck is in it seems, and this time usefully close to Moscow too.
I will move them North-West of Moscow to drain site for SSC.
3400-
3350-
3300- Discover CoL -> BW.
3250-
3200- PRB.
3150- Kyoto and Berlin are in top city list, at size 2. Kabul has gone back to size 2.
Unexpected hut on plains in NW: barb horse.
Barb horse kills our horse.
3100- Moscow builds settler - it sets off for new city site. Start on a building.
Archer meets Chinese(4) - they offer HBR - we decline swap but agree peace. We are Supreme.
3050-
3000- Hut (Germany): barb horse.
Barb horse kills our warrior.
I would have done better to ignore the hut and contact the Germans.

Cities: 2. Pop: 2. Gold: 80. Techs: 3. Settlers: 2. Army: 1 (after the warrior dies.)

 

[Inkerman]

2950-
2900- Discover BW -> Monarchy. Hut (China): NON Chariot (we are near Beijing.)
Spend most of money RB settlers in StPetersburg.
2850- Hut(China): NON Chariot. We are Mighty. Give Alp to Chinese(1).
2800- Archer finds Beijing - they have 2 settlers working. Barb Kabul now size 3.
We are now Weak.
2750- We are now Pathetic.
2700- Moscow settler founds Kiev(26,26), intending SSC. Has jewels, spice and rivers.
2650- We have huts in South China we could pop, but it would be good to become Monarchy asap so we will hold off..
2600-
2550- We are Moderate. Beijing and Kyoto are size 3.
2500-

Cities: 3. Pop: 3. Gold: 45. Techs: 4. Settlers: 2. Army: 3 (2 x NON.)

Monarchy is imminent. We seem to be building the Russian civilization in this big swamp, almost by accident.

 

[Inkerman]

2450- Discover Monarchy -> Currency. Become Monarchy. We are inadequate.
Hut (S.China): Mysticism. Hut: Chariot (from Moscow).
We send to China(5), they now have WC.
Chinese say we are near Shanghai.
2400-
2350-
2300- Hut(S.China): Barb horse - killed by our chariot which becomes vet.
Archer moves next to Kabul.
Archer survives barb attacks.
2250-
2200- Moscow builds barracks.
2150- We are Supreme. RB phalanx Kiev.
2100- Discover Currency -> Trade.
2050-
2000- Get 50g from Chinese(4).

Cities: 3. Pop: 6. Gold: 126. Techs: 7. Monarchy. Settlers: 2. Army: 6 (2 x NON.)

 

[Inkerman]

My game might have been stronger at this point had I founded the potential SSC, Kiev, with the nomad, rather than with the Moscow settler.

The reason is that huts in South China are still to be popped. The continued presence of the nomad in the Russian roster means a hut will not produce a nomad or AT (the chance of a technology is increased to compensate.) And a city in South China, where there is available more food and growth than in the swamp, would be very good.

At the time I was more concerned with the immediate needs of the SSC, and felt that having a worker to irrigate marsh to grassland was more important. Particularly as it was just a chance of being able to start settling in South China that would be gained with the other way. But looking back it might have been better to use the other settler.

 

[Peaster]

I thought this might be a good map for mad early hut-popping, with the size-one trick as an option later on. This did not go as well as hoped, but it was OK.

-3500 Moscow on (21,33). I'd hoped for a swarm of horsemen + nomads by now. But the first 3 huts gave 100g, 50g and an archer. Not bad, but I decided to just settle, and use the gold for RBs.

-3400 hut = nomads (nice result, but bad timing). They wander NW, since settling quickly would ruin the size one plan in Moscow.

-3300 alpha -> c.laws. I RBd a Settler at Moscow in approx -3350 and used +50g from a hut to help RB again in approx -3150 (size one trick twice). I think this turned out fairly well, but not much better than a normal ICS start would have, with similar hut luck.

-3100 St.Pete (2) founded just in time to prevent starvation in Moscow, and then Kiev (3). Moscow is still not well-placed for food/settlers, so it makes a barracks.
This is partly with Barb Wrath in mind (though I do not have any special ideas on how to play that) and also with the idea that a small map will lead to earlier conflicts. Normally I'd postpone investing in defense until much later.

-3000 hut = BW. Other huts give horse, 50g,

-2850 hut = 100g, c.laws --> monarchy, Minsk(4) on west coast.

-2450 Monarchy. --> maps, Peace with China for +50g, recent hut = 100g.

-2350 Smolensk (5)

-2200 Got hbr, maps, mas from Chinese. Why? Moscow has made a vet phalanx, and is near another, but I'd much prefer vet horses. Also this brings Russia closer to Poly.

-2150 more nomads

-2100 Odessa (6) and next turn Sevast (7).

-2000 Poly --> Pots. I noticed a few barbs to the north, but did not realize for 1-2 more turns that this was the edge of a large horde of chariots and horsemen. I was barely able to defend the river at St.Pete (at the top of the "G" IIRC) by RBing several units asap, including a vet ellie from Moscow.

The Barb War raged for over 1000 years, but the worst of it was the first 5 or 10 turns when many many barbs headed for St.Pete, which had no solid defense. I lost several units and had to abandon all my other plans such as ICS / conquest. But eventually, the barbs started to drift about rather randomly and I could pick off the most dangerous intruders with ellies and horses on rivers.

I forget what the triggers barbs (and I couldn't find notes on this) but I vaguely recall the 7th city might do it. If so, maybe building my 7th city so early was a mistake.

-2000 Stats 7 cities, 77 gold, pop 110K,
2S, 2w, 2ph, 1A, 1ho, 9techs,
contact with China(peace,maps) + India, with occasional tribute.

-1950 hut = NON-ellie (but not near the barbs IIRC)

-1800 lost a settler near China to a barb from a hut, lost a few units to the horde near St.Pete, but am moving more in.

-1650 (approx) two more cities, 50g tribute, hut = horse.

-1500 Stats 9 cities, 4el,1tri,2ho,2ph,1A,1w,0S, 6 units lost

-1200 curr -> trade. Most of the horde is still alive, and they still dominate the map, but they have spread out to the East and West, and are not massed near weak Russian cities anymore. And winter is coming! I don't have a very clear plan, but am returning to ICS (I have a moderate-sized scattered army, but for movement, I need some decent coastal cities, and boats). I am prepping a tiny flotilla from Minsk to England to start some EC. No plans for any WoWs at least until I get Trade, and without Marco, I don't even know how many civs exist [Edit on 10/22: For some reason, I imagined that restarts were on, and that some defeated civs had probably respawned. A mistake, but it didn't affect my game much].

-1000 Stats 10 cities (with 1st 2 riots), 99 gold, pop 190K, 11techs
6S,2w,2ph,1A,1ho,9el,1tri 7 units lost. Govt = monarchy since -2450. Contact with 3 AI (incl English).

 

[haleewud]

I am almost finished with my game and will be posting logs soon.

I noticed Inkerman's 3500BC note about the Barbs being size 1. I hadn't really paid attention at that time in my game, but I did reload and noticed that my barb cities also went down to size 1. Interested to see what happened, I went back and did a little 'cheating' to check it out.

It looks like there was a small flaw in the setup of the barbarian cities. I reloaded and revealed the entire map.

When you select either of the barb cities, the only visble square is the actual city square.
Since that square only produces 3 food (under Democracy), the city cannot support more than one citizen, so the 2nd citizen starves to death during the first could of turns. In my game the northern city (Kabul) was producing warriors, so it didn't build its first until in 3500BC. Once that unit was built, the 8 squares around the city were revealed and the city could start to grow. The southern city built phalanxes, so its first unit wasn't built until 3000BC and then it could finally start growing.

By the way, this type of effect was noticed during GOTM108 (Grand Canyon). In that game a couple of AI cities were 'created' at the start of the game on Mountain/River squares. With only 1 food available, the cities actually starved to death. This effect can be partially offset by providing the Barb/AI city with a unit at the beginning.


One other thing I noticed is that it seemed like Kabul only ever built warriors. It kept 3 on garrison duty and then sent the others out as they were completed.
Carpathia, on the other hand, only produced phalanxes. It seemed like it kept all of them for garrison duty. There were 8 stationed in the city when I finally attacked it.

 

[Peaster]

@haleewud: I didn't notice anything strange about the barb cities in my game. Kabul was size 6 when I discovered it (around 1000BC I guess). Continuing my log:

1000 to 825 BC Just collecting tribute, adding approx 4 new cities, and 2 weak-ish flotillas take out London. I lost approx 5 units in random ways (not to the diminished barb horde).

675 BC Captured Berlin. The Germans declared war in 750BC. I plan to conquer counterclockwise around the main land mass; England is crumbling, Germany should fall soon and Spain is next on the list. I am having trouble with China, losing a few advanced troops to barbs, with no fast transportation or outposts to the East. Have 17 cities now, and 14 ellies.

650 BC Russians take Kabul and England falls to bribery.

600 BC Germany falls. Have contacted Spain and got 150g for peace. Nabbed a barb leader in 525BC for 200g.

Stats in 500 BC 27 cities. 18 techs, 76g, contact with 3 civs (not the Japs yet). 4ellies, 5boats, 23w, 4vans for HG, 4S.

to 300 BC Toledo falls, and Spain starts to crumble. HG built.

250 BC 3 Dips remove walls at Beijing and 5 Russian ellies invade the city.

200 BC Spain falls. Lone Japanese horseman invades Russian swamps and declares war, then is bribed. I still don't know where the Japs call home, but suspect the SE island and have a flot approaching that.

125 BC The flot razes a small coastal Jap village. Dips bribe Canton, China is slowly crumbling, but not easily ... large cities on rivers, with phalanxes (probably) made vets defending vs the barb hordes. I have sent several settlers to make outposts in central India, which refuses all my coaxing to declare war.

75 BC. Reluctantly sneak attack vs India, take Madras [Pyr's] plus another city. India looks weak. Russian settlers are getting to the south coast to build ports, to assist with a Japan plan. Minor losses in China further delay victory in the East.

25 BC Last known Chinese city falls to ellies, but the civ remains. I discover the approx location of the last city using Beijing's city worker map. Russians build Marco in approx 1AD, too late to help much.

1 AD and Stats India falls. Marco built (the only benefit is learning that Japan has 2 cities). 3 WoWs, 53 cities, pop 1.8M, 440g, still monarchy, at war with China (1 city) and Japan (2), no other civs. 20 ellies and approx 40 other units.

I finished by conquest a bit later. I got the phil + repu techs near the end, but rejected the idea of playing on in republic for the points.

Thanks to Inkerman for this GOTM. Defending against the barb horde was kind of fun, though it threw my plans all out of whack. It probably delayed conquest by 10 turns or so. Somehow it did not stop Russian growth ... I was slightly baffled to count 53 cities in 1AD, which is not bad even on a normal map without the Wrath.

 

[Inkerman]

So I am building the Russian civilization in the big swamp. I am not going for EC (and am mightily impressed by Peaster's.)

1950- Found Minsk(24,36) on newly drained grassland. I expect it to build many caravans.
1900-
1850- Discover Trade -> Mapmaking.
Swap Trade to Chinese(3) for Writing (they also have HBR, WC and Masonry.)
1800- Hut: Barb horse. Barbs kill chariot.
1750- Settlers in StPetersburg.
1700- Meet Indians(2), give Trade, get 100g.
Germans start Pyramids.
1650- There are several barb warriors wandering around - have been for a while.
A couple of barb warriors attack our stronger units and lose.
1600- Kiev builds Dye caravan, for which there is plenty of demand..
1550- 50g from Chinese(3).
1500-

Stats.
Cities: 4. Pop: 19. Gold: 171. Techs: 9. Monarchy. Settlers: 2. Army: 8 (2 x NON.) 2 Vans.

 

[Inkerman]

1450- Discover Mapmaking -> HBR.
Swap mapmaking to Chinese for HBR.
Give mapmaking and writing to Indians to get map swap.
We learn where Carpathia is.
1400- Start on Literacy.
1350-
1300- Build 2 more settlers, and another van in Kiev.
Meet Germans - give Trade, Mysticism and Currency, swap maps.
1250- Get 50g from Indians, Germans ignore our threats.
Give BW to Chinese get map swap. They are battling the Kabul barbs.
1200-
1150- Chinese(4) have WC and ignore our feeble threats.
Germans(5) have Pottery. Indians(3) have WC.
1100-
1050-
1000- We are Strong.

Stats.
Cities: 4. Pop: 19. Gold: 116. Techs: 11. Monarchy.
Settlers: 4. Army: 9 (2 x NON.) 4 Vans.

Russians: (4) Us - Strong/Spotless
Japanese: ()
Germans: (6) Enthusiastic/Peace
Spanish: ()
Chinese: (3) Enthusiastic/Peace
English: ()
Indians: (2) Enthusiastic/Peace

 

[Inkerman]

The last day of the month prompts another post. This was a perhaps uninspired way to 1AD...

975- We are Mighty.
950- We are Supreme.
925- We are Supreme.
Meet Spanish(3), give Mapmaking, CoL, HBR, get maps. They have a catapult. They ignore us.
900- Van, Moscow-Bangalore(Indian), Hides(und), for 38g.
875- Discover Literacy -> Republic. Pile vans into Kiev.
850- Kiev builds Colossus.
Van, Kiev-Beijing(Chinese), Dye, for 116g.
Get 50g from Germans(5), 50g from Chinese(2),
Swap Literacy to Spanish(3) to get Maths. Give Literacy to Indians(1).
Chinese start Pyramids.

Power summary (you would think I should know what this is by now):
1.? (probably Japanese)
2.Spanish
3.Indians
4.Russians
5.Germans
6.Chinese
7.? (probably English)

825-
800- Kiev builds market. Discover Republic(just) -> Philosophy.
775-
Germans nearly done Pyramids.
750-
Berlin completes Pyramids. Chinese change to GL.
725-
Indians(5) brag about Polytheism.
700-
675- Van, Kiev-Delhi(Indian), Spice, for 207g.
650- Discover Philosophy -> Astronomy -> Medicine.
Hut: Masonry.
Swap Philosophy to Germans for Pottery. Get 100g.
Swap Republic to Indians for Polytheism. Get 50g.
Give Republic to Chinese, update maps.
Revolution!
625- Become Republic.
600-
575-
550- Kiev builds Hanging Gardens.
525- Kiev and Moscow will be able to grow.
500- Kiev = size 6.
Indians start GL.

475- We are only Mighty.
450- Kiev = size 8.
425- Found Smolensk(33,25).
400-
375-
Germans start MPE.
350-
325- Kiev builds Library.
Give Philosophy to Indians(4), update maps. Give Philosophy to Chinese(3), update maps.
300- Moscow builds market.
275- Found Odessa(37,35).
250- Discover Medicine -> Monotheism.

225-
200- Minsk builds temple. Moscow grows to 7. We are Mighty.
Swap Pottery to Indians to get Iron Working. Give Pottery to Chinese.
Give Republic to Spanish - they are hostile to Germans, and not so warm to us.
Swap Republic to Germans to get Construction.
175- Kiev builds Aqueduct and becomes size 9.
150- We are Supreme. Kiev grows to 10, that's it for now.
Van, Minsk-Beijing(Chinese), Spice, for 186g.
125-
100- Van, Kiev-Bangalore(Indian), Beads, for 268g.

75- Discover Monotheism -> University.
50-
Chinese nearly done GL.
25- Give Construction and Monarchy to Indians.
Germans nearly done MPE.
Beijing builds GL. Indians change to MPE. Delhi completes MPE. Germans abandon.

AD1

6 cities (pop 27); 587g, 23 techs, Republic. 5 foreign routes.
4 settlers, 4 phalanx, 1 archer, 2 chariots, 8 vans.
HG and Colossus. Others have Pyramids, GL and MPE.

Russians: (6) Us - Supreme/Spotless
Japanese: ()
Germans: (5) Enthusiastic/Peace
Spanish: (2) Uncooperative/Peace
Chinese: (3) Enthusiastic/Peace
English: ()
Indians: (4) Enthusiastic/Peace

Comments:
As earlier posts remark, we almost accidentally came to build the Russian civilization in the swamp. We have a reasonable SSC and are trading with the AI, having got tribute whilst a monarchy. But there's little opportunity for significant growth - we would be much better off if we had got a foothold outside the swamp and reached the sea. Perhaps I have fallen into a trap? Perhaps HG was not needed as much as MPE?

But we haven't seen a barbarian horde yet.

 

[Peaster]

@inkerman: I didn't build HG until approx 15 cities. It looks like you don't plan to grow much so you probably don't need it.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I started playing last night. Just reached -2000. Will post a log soon. I built Moscow at the starting location and went for size 1 trick. Nomad luck has been phenomenal: I got 3 so far! First two built cities mainly because they were too far away. I have had no encounters with barbarians yet though I see them moving around (just single warriors). My 6 city Russia is entirely in swamp land. Like others I built a barracks because my 2nd city has a tough time growing and there was not any thing else worth building. I am producing vet elephants and plan to go after barbarians and possibly a rival or two before heading for the stars.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Date Notes

-4000 Moscow founded. Working Silk (for size 1 settler) building warrior. There are already two barbarian cities of size 2. Other rivals built capitals before us.
-3950 -> Alphabet
-3750 Alphabet -> Code of Laws. 50g from hut.
-3600 Horseback riding from hut.
-3450 25g from hut.
-3250 size 1 settler produced. Archer from hut.
-3150 St. Petersburg founded on swampy river near Peat.
-3000 Code of Laws -> Monarchy. Nomad from hut builds Kiev.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.05M; Cities: 3; Techs: 4; Government: Despotism
Gold: 54; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 Warrior, 1 Archer
Goals: Monarchy, Trade
Japanese: no contact
German: no contact
Spanish: no contact
Chinese: no contact
English: no contact
Indian: no contact
Barbarian: no contact

-2900 First horse produced.
-2850 Chinese horse near St. Pete. Horse moves back in.
-2800 Turned down Chinese (2) offer of Polytheism. Agreed to their peace offer. They turned down alliance. Gifted them alphabet. Alliance achieved. My power is already Supreme.
-2750 Minsk founded on grass with access to spice and gems. It will be a SSC in future.
-2700 25g from hut.
-2600 Archer from hut.
-2550 Monarchy -> Bronze. Power dropped to Strong and Monarchy was discovered ahead of time. Mapmaking from hut. Mapmaking -> Chinese -> Poly, maps.
-2500 Revolution started.
-2450 Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Nomad from hut.
-2400 Nomad founds Smolensk on Swampy river.
-2350 Warrior meets German horse. Monarchy -> German (1) -> Bronze.
-2300 -> Currency. St. Pete builds Barracks.
-2250 Nomad from hut.
-2050 Odessa founded. Warrior runs into barbarian Carpathia which is now size 3.
-2000 Updated Chinese maps. Gifted Code of Laws to supreme Germans which took them to Cordial but still did not agree to map exchange. I am Mighty.

Status at -2000
Population: 0.06M; Cities: 6; Techs: 8; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 17; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 2 Warriors, 2 Archers, 1 Horseman, 1 vet Elephant.
Goals: Trade, exploration, expansion
Japanese: no contact
German: no embassy
Spanish: no contact
Chinese: no embassy; allied with me
English: no contact
Indian: no contact
Barbarian: located Carpathia

-1950 Currency -> Masonry. Monarchy -> Chinese (2) -> Masonry, 100g.
-1900 Archer survives barbarian warrior and turns vet. -> Trade. I am supreme and Germans are Enthusiastic yet still unwilling to trade maps. Archer from hut.
-1800 Archer survives barbarian warrior. Sevastopol founded.
-1750 Vet Archer survives another barbarian warrior. Tblisi founded.
-1650 Warrior on mountain survives barbarian warrior.
-1550 Trade -> Writing. T7L0S3. Currency -> German -> Writing, maps. Currency -> Chinese (3) -> Math, 50g.
-1500 -> Mysticism.
-1450 Vet Archer survives another barbarian warrior. Sverdlovsk founded near the west coast at (14,14) with access to wheat and gold.
-1400 Indian horse shows up by undefended Kiev. Trade, Monarchy, Currency, Writing -> Indian (4) -> peace, enthusiastic, but no maps!? Size 5 barbarian Kabul discovered.
-1350 Warrior on mountain survives another barbarian warrior and turns vet.
-1300 Archer survives barbarian attack and turns vet. Bangalore discovered.
-1200 Both my vet archers are now fortified next to Kabul. One survives an attack. Vet elephant kills 2 defenders of Kabul.
-1150 None legion from hut in northern China.
-1050 Settler survives barbarian warrior.
-1000 Indians finally agree to map exchange. German -> 75g. Trade, Code of Laws -> Chinese -> 0g.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.21M; Cities: 9; Techs: 13; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 108; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 7 Settlers (1 None), 2 Warriors, 1 Phalanx, 3 Archers, 1 None Legion, 1 Horseman, 2 vet Elephants, 1 vet Catapult, 1 diplomat, 3 vans.
Goals: Expansion, Marco
Japanese: no contact
German: no embassy
Spanish: no contact
Chinese: no embassy; allied with me
English: no contact
Indian: no embassy
Barbarian: located Carpathia and Kabul. Kabul is under siege.

 

[Inkerman]

I agree Peaster's comment about HG not being needed with only 6 cities. But it did add a couple to the SSC population.

We continue from 1AD, with only 20% science with most effort into vans.
Germans start Copernicus.

120- Kiev builds Copernicus Lab.
140- Van, Odessa-Kiev, Gems, for 114g.
Van, Moscow-Kiev, Silk, for 108g.
180- Kiev builds Michaelangelo Chapel. Can set lux to 0%.

200- Discover University -> Chemistry. Back to Supreme so it cost less.
220- Kiev builds University.
280- Establish Embassy with Germans. 5 cities, 22 techs, working on seafaring. We've 24 techs.
Van, Kiev-Hamburg, Salt(und), for 78g.
Tiny burst of pop growth as we increase lux. Pop now 1.04m = 29.

320- Found Sevastopol (20,24), another van builder.
340- Pop = 38. Kiev builds Shakespeare's Theatre. Sell Temple.
Kiev =12, but 2 other cities can grow one more.
360- Discover Chemistry -> Wheel. Pop now 40, lux reduced to 0 again.
Swap University to Indians(4) for WC.
Swap Monotheism to Chinese(5) for Banking.
They own Frankfurt(6), on the north-west coast.
Germans develop Seafaring.
380- Kiev builds Bank.

420- Kiev builds Courthouse.
460- Discover Wheel -> Seafaring. Oops there we go, discovering it ourselves again.
Swap Banking to Germans(4) for Seafaring.
Germans and Chinese sign peace treaty.
480- Start on Engineering.
500-

Stats.
376g. Supreme (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 15.
6 settlers, 4 phalanx, 1 archer, 2 chariot, 1 crusader, 2 dips, 8 vans.
Pop: 38 in 7 cities (Kiev, SSC = 12). 29 techs. 5F2D routes.
Colossus, HG
Michaelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare.

Russians: (6) Us - Supreme/Spotless
Japanese: ()
Germans: (3) Enthusiastic/Peace, 5 cities, 24 techs. Work on Navigation.
Spanish: (2) Uncooperative/Peace, 4 cities?
Chinese: (5) Enthusiastic/Peace, 8 cities?
English: ()
Indians: (4) Enthusiastic/Peace, 6 cities?

 

[Inkerman]

So we're a fair way into the next month now and I suppose anyone looking for a game will play the next one now. But let's post the log to 1000AD - for a civilization in the swamp approach.

520- Moscow builds Library.
Chinese start Adam Smith.
540- Swap Medicine to Chinese(5) for Economics.
Give University to Germans(4), swap maps.
560- Berlin builds Great Wall.
580- Discover Engineering -> Sanitation. Kiev builds Stock Exchange.
600- Give Wheel to Indians.

620- Establish Embassy with Indians.
640- Discover Sanitation -> Bridge Building.
Van, Moscow-Canton(Chinese), Hides, for 148g.
660- Lux to 10% - Kiev will celeb (just).
Give Sanitation to Chinese.
680- Kiev builds sewers.
Give Sanitation, Economics and Wheel to Germans.
700- Discover Bridge Building -> Theory of Gravity. Kiev = 13.
Establish Embassy to Chinese.
Navigation must be imminent with either Germans or Indians or Chinese.
Van, Minsk-Hamburg, Dye, for 88g.

720- Kiev = 14
Chinese capture Barbarian Kabul.
740- Moscow builds harbour. Kiev = 15.
Indians develop Navigation.
760- Van, Odessa-Nanking(Chinese), Spice, for 96g. Kiev = 16.
English capture Chinese city of Frankfurt.
780- Discover ToG -> Invention. Kiev = 17.
Indians start LH.
800- Meet English(0) - they want 150g - war. Kiev = 18, Moscow = 8, Sevastopol = 4. Lux to 0%.
Germans discover Navigation, Chinese get from GL.

820- Found Tblisi (25,13) on north coast. At last, a city to escape the swamp.
840- Kiev builds Isaac Newton's College. Discover Invention -> Democracy (940 next realistic OEDO.)
Crusaders destroy English settler by Kiev.
860- Van, Smolensk-Shanghai, Beads, for 34g.
880-
900-

920-
940- Discover Democracy -> Gunpowder. Revolution. Become Democracy.
Swap Invention to Indians for Navigation. Chinese get from GL.
960- Kiev completes Leonardo's Workshop.
Give Invention to Germans(3), update maps.
Japanese and Indians go to war.
Chinese develop Physics. They change from Adam Smith to KRC.
980- Swap Democracy to Chinese for Physics.
1000- Discover Gunpowder -> Explosives.
Kiev = size 20.
Van, Kiev-Madras, Gold, for 297g.

Stats
1342g. Supreme (and spotless.) Democracy. Total cost 22.
6 settlers, 11 musketeers, 4 crusader, 1 catapult, 1 dip, 10 vans.
Pop: 53 in 8 cities (Kiev, SSC = 20). 39 techs. 9F2D routes.
Colossus, HG
Michaelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare.
Leonardo, Newton.

I have tried to find a little humour in all the building in the swamp. Now, at last, with the port on the north coast, we will be getting out and about, but really escaping should have been an early aim. I think if a hut didn't do it, walking a settler out (probably east) would have been worth it. Although the SSC is now in good shape, and it will allow the game to be steered to a comfortable spaceship, it's all been a bit too slow I think. The barbarians have made little difference, with no band so far - and now the Chinese have taken the barb city that does send out units (I don't know why Carpathia doesn't too.)

 

[Peaster]

Too bad about the missing hordes. They are not good for your civ, of course, but I thought they were a nice variation on the usual game.

 

[Inkerman]

Too bad about the missing hordes. They are not good for your civ, of course, but I thought they were a nice variation on the usual game.

I have now finished and sent off files (and am now looking at another Emperor/Russian/difficult start combination in GotM 149) but this game did not pass entirely without hordes.

The first:

1200- Discover Steam Engine -> Refrigeration.
Barbarian band eruption on Chinese coast at (57,33) - a long way from us.

The burden of this was borne mostly by the Chinese, but later....

1710- Another rebel band south of Kabul, merging with some remains of the previous one.

and finally, once the spaceship was in flight, there were two more, partisans and cavalry, at the rate of 17/turn. That was very colourful, and the first provoked quite a scramble for the limited defence forces we had available.

 

[Peaster]

Ah, good. It sounds like they were more entertaining than truly damaging.

 

[Inkerman]

Entertaining: well, there was the "71 units destroyed" message that I got when dealing with one of the later hordes!

The main concern was the rebels were very close to the last AI "pet" city and I didn't want to find out what happens if barbs take over the last non-player city before the points for the spaceship are earned. It was close (perhaps.) I was maybe within one unit of finding out - but I found a semi-retired partisan languishing in a distant seaside town, ... so I didn't find out.

P.S. I admit there had been some wars, which is why the AI had only 1 city - but honest, it was forced on me - I managed to finish as "spotless".