GOTM 15 - final spoiler

[da_Vinci]

Previously on GOTM 15 … (from first spoiler)

Built a bunch of Q’s, took ‘em north, stole a couple of Hatty’s workers, but a barb onslaught pillaged gem mine, killed a worker and kept settlers behind the walls for several turns. Second city not founded until 1390 BC. Q rushed a few barb cities, ended up with about six cities with the goal of survival.

End result ...

Spaceship Loss to America, 1697 AD, 1203 base, 2406 Firaxis.

Not too much exciting to tell ...

Charity case: AIs gave me Alphabet, Theology, Construction, Philosophy, Feudalism, Gunpowder, Liberalism, Guilds, Economics, Replaceable parts.

Needed them all to fend of Toku who declared in 1472 and landed about 30 units over 3 turns within 3 tiles of my capital.

I had just completed chemisty and had a few grenadiers, so started whipping them like mad. Also, I had defensive pacts with Roosevelt and Cyrus. Fortunately, Toku first went after a smaller, less defended city, and eventually took it (which lost my 6th university and so no more building of Oxford). Then he fanned out his units to pillage the land, instead of concentrating on my capital. Sounds like the same thing he did against jesusin. That allowed me to pick off individual units that were wounded, and then retreat my wounded units into my capital to heal. By judicious use of catapults to damage whole stacks, and counterattacks, I was able to hold the capital and clear my land of Toku's army.

There was no second Japanese attack wave ... my friend Roosevelt was crushing Toku. Once he was dead, re-established the DP with Roosevelt and Cyrus, and settled back to watch the space race, and to see how much score I could build up until the end with pop and tech.

So, I was not killed off, I was not even the last place finisher (Toku had that honor). So, maybe not so bad for my first deity game. If I had not been so obsessed with going after Hatty, and kept my Q's in my own area, I could have Q rushed the barb cities and had a nice 8 city empire or so early, and perhaps at least not been a charity case. Live and learn.

dV

 

[VitalSol]

I played test games (up to ~200AD) posted by Gnejs and Erkon (thanks, guys!) since I never tried deity level before.
From those I learned that:
1) Q rush doesn't work against Monty, 'cause he can build Jaguars without iron;
2) Q rush works great if someone settles the territory near your capital, like English in Erkon's game. Otherwise, it's a huge drain on the economy.

From the onset I wanted to go cultural no matter what, because of my failed cultural attemt as Napoleon in GOTM 14.
Q rush may or may not be the case depending on circumstances.

The game.

I settled 1N on the hill, to get those Gems in the capital.
Worker went south, Q north and bonus archer NW.

Early builds: Q, WB, Q, Settler, Q, Worker, Q, Granary, Settler, Obelisk, Lighthouse (1030 BC), Axeman
Early techs: Fishing, Mining, Bronze Working, The Wheel, Pottery, AH, Writing, Hunting, Sailing, Masonry (1210 BC.)

I met Egyptian scout in 3400 BC, coming from north.
Then, in 3250 BC my archer finds the goody hat, and a wounded barb archer next to it.
I took the chances and went into goody hat, got strong hostiles (4 warriors,) and that resolved my dilemma of Q rush -
from now on I'm playing godotnut's Totally Peaceful Deity Cultural game, except I don't have any chance with Piramids, so I will have to tech all the way to Democracy.

BTW, my archer got killed by wounded barb archer, and I hope Hatty had trouble with those 4 warriors...

2560 BC - Tiwanaku founded 2N from gold, to get gold, sheep and flood plains.
I was trying to settle as N as possible.
1450 BC - Machu Picchu founded near second copper.
805 BC - Confu founded in a distant land.
685 BC - Christianity founded in a distant land.
This same year Cuzco begins WB to explore West coast, this WB gets killed by barb galley.
670 BC - Ollantaytambo founded 2N from wine.
505 BC - Corihuayrachina founded, I think this one is west from Cuzco on the peninsula.

So, basically I peacefully expanded until I had 8 cities around my starting location.
In 505 BC Hindu spread to one of my cities. Hatty was hindu, but I didn't converted waiting her to ask. Besides, I didn't had tech for OR yet.
Then, Judaism spread into one of my cities, also founded by Hatty, so now I don't convert into Hindu for culture.
Finaly, I made contact with Tokugava and Gandhi, so I never adopted any religion.
Hatty was pleased with me for open borders, trades and Hereditary Rule.
I also never build any wonders.
I learned COL in 145 BC and started working on Courthouses, meanwile Hatty spreded Hindu with her missionaries.
I also spreaded Judaism in most of my cities.
I grabbed stone with 2nd border expansion of my Wine city. Hatty had city 2 SW from the stone taken from barbs, but it never cought on on culture.
Now, I had copper myself, but what about marble? I managed to trade marble from Toku at first, and build my first Hindu Mandir with it, but then Toku lost this marble to Gandhi due to the border expansion. it was on the Islands.
I didn't traded it from Gandhi, thinking I will do it later when I have next 3 temples ready, but then Gandhi sold it off to Hatty,
so I ended up buying all marble buildings without marble, including Hermitage.

Now, when I met Toku and Gandhi, and later all other guys I was behind in techs, but I managed to trade some techs and ended up researching few things before Peter and Toku.
Gandhi was leader in score, and in culture. I don't remember when, but I think around 1300AD I bribed Peter to attack Gandhi with tech.
Now, looking back at the game, that was probably the best shot at Victory - to abandon the cultural game and attack Gandhi from 2 sides.
I almost had a tech parity back then, also very few units, mostly Q's as MP.
But no, I haven't done this - I wanted to see how close I can get with cultural playing.
Peter and Gandhi warred for may be 500 years, Peter took Calcutta, and that was it - they signed peace.

Meanwhile I got size 1 Russian city flipped to me, down south near 2 silver.
I took it, because it didn't had any religion and I hoped for a new one, and because it made me with 9 cities ness. for the cultural Deluxe game.
Cyrus sread Confu to Cuzco in 1210AD, and Buddism spreaded on it's own around the same time, so I got 4 religions.
Now, I'm thinking why is it I wasn't afraid to bribe Peter into war wit Gandhi? I think by that time I had a Defensive Pact with Cyrus already.
Later on I signed DP with Roosevelt too.
Hatty was a bit upset about it (-2), but I figured she has greater enemy then me - Peter.

1496 AD - Tokugawa commits Seppuku (declares war on me.)
Toku land his SOD (5 cats, mess of Rifles, and 3 or 4 Knights) near my size 1 silver colony flipped from Russians.
I have a tech to build Grenadiers, but do not have any at ready.
I cranked up taxes to 100%, upgrade my Q's to pikemen and my Pikemen to Gren, an fend off the attack.
Toku razes silver colony, gets to my Deer city, pillages Deer, Whale and East fish (yes, he came from the East,) and that's pretty much all he done.
I killed his land units, while Cyrus' and Roo's destroyers took care of Toku's Galleons and Fregates.
I upgraded my caravell to Fregate and went to look as Allied forces took all Toku's cities one by one.
By the time they finished on the continent and went to Islands, Roo was using Navy seals.
Around the time I fend off Toku, I turned off the research and went all money to buy Cathedrals.
Roosvelt gave me Steel during the war. Hatty and Gandhi also gave me some techs at some point.
After the war I reinstated Defensive Pact with Roo and Cyrus, to keep Hatty at bay.
Cyrus had Apollo before the war, and lanched 2 parts when he was fiting Toku.
Cyrus also resettled silver spot, but 2 S from prev location, so I can't flip it.

Then I settled a new city on east side of Gandhi continent, in tundra (or ice?), to grab a Crab.
Nearby tundra become populated very fast by Roo, Cyrus and Gandhi.
I also settled a city on the Island NE from marble, to may be get a marble in the future, wich never happened.
The tundra city eventualy got Cristianity (from Gandhi,) and flipped two nearby cities - one Roo and one Cyrus.
I spread Cristi into all my other cities, ending up with 5 religions, 3 cathedrals for each, + Hermitage.

When I went 90% culture, I generated 850, 810, 790 per turn in my 3 cities.
I estimated that to win, I need 1000 culture per turn in all 3 cities, wich never happened.
Gandhi was ahead of me with culture, 'cause he had Eifel, Broadway, R'n'Roll and Hollywood, and Bombei become Legendary in 1600 smth AD.
(with all that outsourcing boom, what did you expected?)
Nevertheless, his 3rd cultural city had less culture then my 1st, and I can culturebomb my 2nd and 3rd with GAs.
So it's not him I'm worried about, it's the spacerace.
Cyrus had the lead in spacerace, then Gandhi took over, then Hatty built Space elevator and I knew she's going to win.

I don't have the game on this computer, but I think when Hatty lanched in 1750, I had 39K, 38K, 37K in my 3 cities.
One GA was ready, and another one in the making, so it made me 40 turns from the victory - way too far.

Edit - exect numbers are 41600, 40500, 38500 of culture.

Lessons learned.

My most obvious shortcoming is luck of great people - 1GS for Academy in Cuzco, and 1 GA ready - that's all.
I made my 3rd city cultural - better way perhaps was to make it a GP farm, and then cultural city up north in the jungle - it won't have any resources,
but plenty of cottage space.
Anyway, even if I had 6 extra Great Artists to fall out of havens, I whould be short from victory.
So it seams that conclusion is that Cultural victory is not possible on deity without Piramids, and Piramids are not possible unless you have stone in your capital.
For this game I think the best short was to tear Gandhi apart along with Peter, then try diplo.
But then again, how would I fend off Toku in that case, without alliance with bigger powers?

 

[da_Vinci]

1496 AD - Tokugawa commits Seppuku (declares war on me.)
Toku land his SOD (5 cats, mess of Rifles, and 3 or 4 Knights) near my size 1 silver colony flipped from Russians.
I have a tech to build Grenadiers, but do not have any at ready.
I cranked up taxes to 100%, upgrade my Q's to pikemen and my Pikemen to Gren, an fend off the attack.
Toku razes silver colony, gets to my Deer city, pillages Deer, Whale and East fish (yes, he came from the East,) and that's pretty much all he done.
I killed his land units, while Cyrus' and Roo's destroyers took care of Toku's Galleons and Fregates.

Toku declares late 1400s, DP with Cyrus and Roosevelt, one wave of attackers held off, and Toku gets killed by Roosevelt ... I am having deja vu! Seems that several games had common themes in this regard.

dV

 

[Armus79]

Cuzco at its peak

Spoiler :

Strategic view

Spoiler :

The peaceful empire of the Incas

Spoiler :

 

[jesusin]

Thank you for your encouraging words, Mad Professor.

Thank you for the info, Vynd. Good to know. I will lose legendary cities more often now that I know that culture remains in them.

At that point I reduced my (finally respectable) Science rate back down to about 10% and convinced Roosevelt to make peace for 50 gpt a turn in 1268 AD. It was either that or my Gem/Gold city.

Hey! I could have tried that in my game too! Specially since money is not a problem in a Deity (cultural) game. I knew I was going to learn new things in the spoilers.

I spread Cristi into all my other cities, ending up with 5 religions, 3 cathedrals for each, + Hermitage.
When I went 90% culture, I generated 850, 810, 790 per turn in my 3 cities.

Thank you for your detailed post, it is very interesting reading.

May I do a suggestion? I don’t have all the necessary data, so I could easily be wrong, but my guts impression when I read this is you went 100% culture too late. What date was that, by the way? In my game it was 1172AD, almost a millennia later than in my usual Deity games.

Would you consider replaying part of the game? If so, I would suggest not settling those two last cities, not spreading that 5th religion, not researching Democracy but relying on one or two short periods of slavery to build the Cathedrals, not saving money at 100% taxes. Does it sound like a feasible alternative?

So it seams that conclusion is that Cultural victory is not possible on deity without Piramids…

I am sorry but I can’t share your conclusion. In fact, I believe that Pyramids damage your chances of a cultural victory.

Both my plenty-of-mistakes game and your game prove that a cultural victory was possible. I still believe that culture was the best path to victory in this game. Diplomacy seems too luck dependant for my taste, but that could be due to my lack of diplomatic skills.

Anyway, even if I had 6 extra Great Artists to fall out of havens, I whould be short from victory.

6 extra GA is too little to hope for. I had popped 7 GP by 1300AD, an unusual low number. I was expecting to have popped 10 more by 1730AD.

Usually my non legendary cities are farmed all around an their only task after 1AD is to run artists. You had more cities than me, so you could have had some 18-19GP at the end of the game.

There was no second Japanese attack wave ... my friend Roosevelt was crushing Toku. Once he was dead, re-established the DP with Roosevelt and Cyrus,

Oh, how much I envy you! Had I accepted that DP, I wouldn’t be defending the Culture way with arguments, but with facts…sigh

 

[Lawrence]

Interesting that the AI went for diplomatic. Whenever I've had an AI SG of the UN in games I've played (not often) they have put through all sorts of other resultions only proposing a diplo victory as a last resort after other resultions ahve gone through. This happened also in my GOTM15 where Gandhi built the UN and never actually proposed diplo, putitng through a heap of other resolutions first.

Does anyone know what criteria the AI uses for decided what resolution to propose when SG of the UN?

Gandhi did propose a lot of other resolutions. 3 global civics, nuclear and 2 trade routes resolutions. But he built the UN as early as 1538, and he was friendly with Cyrus and Washington. However there were still 2 global civics that he didn't propose, including Universal Suffrage, his favorite. So I guess he really knew that he could win a diplo at the time.

 

[VitalSol]

May I do a suggestion? I don’t have all the necessary data, so I could easily be wrong, but my guts impression when I read this is you went 100% culture too late. What date was that, by the way? In my game it was 1172AD, almost a millennia later than in my usual Deity games.

Would you consider replaying part of the game? If so, I would suggest not settling those two last cities, not spreading that 5th religion, not researching Democracy but relying on one or two short periods of slavery to build the Cathedrals, not saving money at 100% taxes. Does it sound like a feasible alternative?

I think you have a good point here, Jesusin. May be culture victory was possible after all?

I learned Democracy in 1328 AD - means I had some Universities and even few Observatories.
1352 AD - I'm running 100% tax to get money.
I started to run 20% culture just before the war with Japan, then turned back to 100% tax.
Finally I went 100% culture in 1529 - very late!

I might give it a try and see if I can win by turning 100% culture earlier.

Thanks for your detailed post, Jesusin!

 

[slowrider]

This is turning into an interesting discussion regarding the possibility of winning with culture. I will be very interested to see if anyone can do it and how.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I played 4 times trying to win culturally but couldn't pull it off. I used Godotnut's approach and was able to build 3 strong cottage cities and a good GP factory running 7 specialists. In subsequent games after the original I tried to execute better (by maxing the cites faster) and made some incremental improvements but was always 400+ turns with the AI launching between 350-400.

The problem could be that (besides not having the Pyramids) I only received 3 religions in time to build cathedrals. Twice I got extras but way too late. There are a couple of things I didn’t try such as: building early religions or building a far away city to catch others sooner but I finally burned out (or maybe it’s because there’s a new game available). Of coarse there’s the distinct possibility that my execution wasn’t up to par but I have to think it was pretty good. I don’t think my 4 cities could have been placed any better or maxed out very much faster.

Maybe it’s possible by nabbing some early religions along with a far off city to pick up mid to late religions sooner. A really remote possibility would be to engineer a world war to delay the space race.

Anywho, then there’s this other cultural approach I haven’t heard of posted by jesusin. Maybe that would work. Is there a thread discussing this approach?

So then after seeing Thorrez posting a diplomatic win I was again challenged and was finally able win. I have never tried diplomatic so it didn’t even occur to me at the start. Actually the strategic decision-making at the beginning of the game should gone like this: early exploration shows we’re isolated so conquest/domination is out, this is deity so space race and time limit is definitely out, no Pyramids so cultural is out (at the time I didn’t know there was another approach). The only thing left is diplomatic and there’s no way to have enough population to be in the vote without building the UN so that becomes the overarching goal. The key mid-game strategy turns out to be avoiding all trades with Japan and Russia and late game determining who will end up with the most population and really sucking up to the other 3. Well that does work and it was satisfying to be able to pull it off.

 

[Lawrence]

This is turning into an interesting discussion regarding the possibility of winning with culture. I will be very interested to see if anyone can do it and how.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I played 4 times trying to win culturally but couldn't pull it off. I used Godotnut's approach and was able to build 3 strong cottage cities and a good GP factory running 7 specialists. In subsequent games after the original I tried to execute better (by maxing the cites faster) and made some incremental improvements but was always 400+ turns with the AI launching between 350-400.

The problem could be that (besides not having the Pyramids) I only received 3 religions in time to build cathedrals. Twice I got extras but way too late. There are a couple of things I didn’t try such as: building early religions or building a far away city to catch others sooner but I finally burned out (or maybe it’s because there’s a new game available). Of coarse there’s the distinct possibility that my execution wasn’t up to par but I have to think it was pretty good. I don’t think my 4 cities could have been placed any better or maxed out very much faster.

Maybe it’s possible by nabbing some early religions along with a far off city to pick up mid to late religions sooner. A really remote possibility would be to engineer a world war to delay the space race.

Anywho, then there’s this other cultural approach I haven’t heard of posted by jesusin. Maybe that would work. Is there a thread discussing this approach?

So then after seeing Thorrez posting a diplomatic win I was again challenged and was finally able win. I have never tried diplomatic so it didn’t even occur to me at the start. Actually the strategic decision-making at the beginning of the game should gone like this: early exploration shows we’re isolated so conquest/domination is out, this is deity so space race and time limit is definitely out, no Pyramids so cultural is out (at the time I didn’t know there was another approach). The only thing left is diplomatic and there’s no way to have enough population to be in the vote without building the UN so that becomes the overarching goal. The key mid-game strategy turns out to be avoiding all trades with Japan and Russia and late game determining who will end up with the most population and really sucking up to the other 3. Well that does work and it was satisfying to be able to pull it off.

I think for cultural victories in this game, you may grab at least two religions from Peter. A few grenades are enough to teach him a lesson with someone, Cyrus or Gandhi, as your war partner. In my replayed game I actually had a chance to take Moscow, but my Galleon only escorted 1 grenade there, had I escorted 3 I could beat my friend Cyrus in taking Moscow, which was guarded by only two longbows. With those two more religions cultural might be a possibility.

And I still don't think space race is out. I am replaying from my 335AD save (when I made the wrong decision and was starting to pop troops), now I have reached 1553AD, with radio got in 1544AD and computers due in 7 turns. We will see the result of the race.

 

[slowrider]

Lawrence, hope springs eternal and you got to love that.

 

[Lawrence]

Lawrence, hope springs eternal and you got to love that.

Failed through... Forgotten ONLY one thing, you cannot HURRY THE INTERNET...

 

[slowrider]

Lawrence, you're killen me ... I love you man.

 

[Lawrence]

Well, that strategy might work in some other games, not this one.

Beeline to Computers. Then Beeline to Fiber Optics by Rocketry -> Satellites, you should be able to get Artillery and Industrialism from trade before that.

Shut down all research, switch to organized religion, buy factories and rush the Internet as fast as you can. Then go all production and hopefully you will win the manuever race with AI.

I haven't built an internet in civ4 before, so I never knew that it is a world project and not a wonder. I stockpiled a GE in Cuzco hoping to hurry it, but found out that it is not possible. By the time I finally put the World Wide Web around, Hatty had already launched. Nevertheless, the strategy should work if you are 30 turns faster in tech than what I did in this game, which should be possible in some deity games.

 

[jesusin]

Anywho, then there’s this other cultural approach I haven’t heard of posted by jesusin. Maybe that would work. Is there a thread discussing this approach?

Another approach? Which approach are you referring to? I have tried dozens of approaches for a cultural victory! The more successful ones at Deity level I know are:

- Food: (credit goes to bostich). Build farms all around and get 20+ GA.
- Food without research: If you are going to culture bomb all the way, why should you research Music or Liberalism?
- Prioritize Alphabet: Get trades as soon as possible, don’t keep Alphabet for yourself.
- Prioritize CoL (credit goes to WastinTime): Beeline to CoL, then Alphabet. Enjoy Caste System as soon as possible. Early GPs are awesome.
- Stop research at Liberalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism and Printing Press.
- Stop research at Democracy.
- Use Mercantilism.
- Use Free Market.
- Your Cathedrals should be rushbuyed.
- Your Cathedrals should be whipped.
- Your Cathedrals should be built and chopped.
- You need 3 cottage cities.
- You need 2 cottage cities, your third legendary city is your GPfarm.
- You have to build the Pyramids.
- You have to build the Parthenon.
- You shouldn’t be building any Wonders.
- Build an Academy with a GS.
- Lighbulb techs with 1-3 GS (Philosophy and/or Education)
- Don’t never pop a GS. All your GP should be GA.
- Be the first to Music
- Ignore Music, trade for it
- Be the first to Liberalism
- Ignore Liberalism, trade for it

As you see, approaches are not mutually exclusive, you can pick and mix. For example, godotnut’s original strategy (he has sharpened his strategy since he wrote his memorable guide) would be ‘Pyramids or Democracy’+3 cottaged cities+rushbuy+1st to Liberalism.


You can find a lot of cultural threads in the HOF forum, there are some by jesusin, some by bostich… Lexad and Xin Yu have very good ideas too. There are also threads in the strategy forum, ‘The Beginners Crash Guide To Cultural Victory’ or godotnut’s guide. In a Prince GOTM there was a very interesting discussion about culture. That’s all I can remember right now.

 

[Mad Professor]

I haven't built an internet in civ4 before, so I never knew that it is a world project and not a wonder. I stockpiled a GE in Cuzco hoping to hurry it, but found out that it is not possible. By the time I finally put the World Wide Web around, Hatty had already launched. Nevertheless, the strategy should work if you are 30 turns faster in tech than what I did in this game, which should be possible in some deity games.

I won a space race in an emperor game where I'd messed up a couple of things and got behind in tech - I seem to remember being attacked and having my economy ravaged at one stage. Anyhow, beeling to computers for laboratories, and then aiming fast for fibre optics and building the internet as fast as possible, even resorting to chopping forest in the modern era, got me the internet, and after that it was a matter of making sure I built the right parts in the right cities to keep the flow really going, and to have spies in my main competition's area blowing up his aluminium - which I had plenty of money for because I wasn't researching...

I wouldn't recommend it as a "perfect" strategy and I don't think the internet will ever get you a "fastest" space race, but it will pull a mess back into shape and give you a shot at getting to the line first with a space race win if you've lost the tech race, which is always going to happen to me when I try diety (At least for a long while yet)

I was never in a position to do that in this game though - I just didn't have it together enough to tech to fibre optics before Roosevelt launched never mind build the internet and a space ship!

 

[ungy]

I think a cultural should have been possible here--I'm not too experienced at cultural and I was about 20 turns short. Staying out of war seemed a challenge--I got attacked 3 times and would have lost early had I not teched to rifles. I only had 2 religions and got the second kind of late--another was lost as the city was razed before I could spread it.

As for getting all the GP, I didn't have a great GP site--used the fish/sheep. So I was definately short GP--but I think that secondary.

I'm hoping some more the strong cultural players will post spoilers so I can learn--this was one of the best GOTM's anyway.

 

[slowrider]

Thanks for the detailed info jesusin ... you really know your culture. Below I indicated which tactics from your list that I used. I guess what I meant by "another approach" would be one that's fundimentially different that godotnut's. I think the ultra-high food and/or quitting tech ultra-early qualify as fundimentially different. Thanks for the insight.

Another approach? Which approach are you referring to? I have tried dozens of approaches for a cultural victory! The more successful ones at Deity level I know are:

- Food: (credit goes to bostich). Build farms all around and get 20+ GA.
- Food without research: If you are going to culture bomb all the way, why should you research Music or Liberalism?

- Prioritize Alphabet: Get trades as soon as possible, don’t keep Alphabet for yourself.
Yes -> Prioritize CoL (credit goes to WastinTime): Beeline to CoL, then Alphabet. Enjoy Caste System as soon as possible. Early GPs are awesome.

- Stop research at Liberalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism.
- Stop research at Liberalism and Nationalism and Printing Press.
Yes -> Stop research at Democracy.

- Use Mercantilism.
Yes -> Use Free Market.

Yes -> Your Cathedrals should be rushbuyed.
- Your Cathedrals should be whipped.
- Your Cathedrals should be built and chopped.

Yes -> You need 3 cottage cities.
- You need 2 cottage cities, your third legendary city is your GPfarm.

- You have to build the Pyramids.
- You have to build the Parthenon.
Yes -> You shouldn’t be building any Wonders.

Yes -> Build an Academy with a GS.
- Lighbulb techs with 1-3 GS (Philosophy and/or Education)
- Don’t never pop a GS. All your GP should be GA.

Tried but couldn't -> Be the first to Music
- Ignore Music, trade for it

Tried but couldn't -> Be the first to Liberalism
- Ignore Liberalism, trade for it

As you see, approaches are not mutually exclusive, you can pick and mix. For example, godotnut’s original strategy (he has sharpened his strategy since he wrote his memorable guide) would be ‘Pyramids or Democracy’+3 cottaged cities+rushbuy+1st to Liberalism.


You can find a lot of cultural threads in the HOF forum, there are some by jesusin, some by bostich… Lexad and Xin Yu have very good ideas too. There are also threads in the strategy forum, ‘The Beginners Crash Guide To Cultural Victory’ or godotnut’s guide. In a Prince GOTM there was a very interesting discussion about culture. That’s all I can remember right
now.

Thanks for the detailed info jesusin ... you really know your culture.

 

[Pideocle]

Very interesting game - Thank you to the staff

I learned more with this game than any other ...

I think I did not use correctly what was given to us : Quechua's and Hatty :
- I always was in peace so my Quechua did not serve : the key point was in 2840 BC where I could have attack Hatty fourth's settler and after capture a worker and his third city ... (I tried it)
- Hatty has no memory : share her religion and she forget the past ...

So I tried a cultural victory but was out in tech race too early.

Someone knows if GP counts in the final score (I had 3 Great artist to make a cultural bomb when AI won) ?

 

[toller pretzl]

The second wave came from the W, 3 galleons. The plan was to make them impossible to disembark. So I placed a unit in every tile of my W coast and hoped he wouldn’t continue E. The first turn he couldn’t get out of the ships. Well done! No amphibious units in his stack. But the second turn all his units were on my shores. Is Toku cheating?
No. They had killed a worker. So I have learnt that workers can’t be used for a coastal blockade.

Coastal blockade doesn't exist in civ4. Any unit can attack amphibiously, but without the amphibious promotion they get a 50 percent attack-penalty.

 

[toller pretzl]

Contender, spaceship loss to Ghandi in 1817 AD.

I love the Quecha rush, it is about the first thing I did after I took civ4 out of the box. I didn't really pull it off in this game though, it wasn't till axemen that I started conquering the Egyptians. Twice I rushed Thebes with Quecha's and lost them all. Especially the first one was stupid: the odds were against me and what pushed me to do it anyway was the high maintenance cost of the Quecha's in foreign territory. With a bit more patience, I do think the Quecha rush could work in this GOTM.

Anyway, the Quecha's did slow down Egypt, and I finally conquered them with axemen, then swordmen and finally macemen and catapults. So that is some satisfaction; hey, if it was duel I would have won!

After that India settled really fast on my continent. I decided to feign the motions for a cultural victory that I would never win. I have never tried a cultural victory, so this was a good chance to try, while waiting for the end.
Then Tokugawa got eliminated by Roosevelt, so that's another AI who did worse than me. Roosevelt was very aggressive in my game, he was finishing off Peter when Ghandi launched. For some reason the big boys never layed a finger on me, and kept being pleased with me even when I refused to join wars.