GOTM 162 Spoiler

Inkerman

Engineer
Civ2 GOTM Staff
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Jan 14, 2011
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I'll create the spoiler as our new contributor Catalin has started playing.

It will be some days until I join in here, but I guess the first thing we may talk about is how many cities to build on the starting island.
 
Unfortunately,I have saves just AD 1000 and the last turn,and the big problem a reload not OK in the end of the game,hurry to reload for a mouse jump(after clarification in GOTM 161 spoiler,accidents) trireme not in my city to disband,and my diplomat steal other tech,etc.Can't submit this game,but I will write how I played.
I maked 2 cities on the starting island,capital Delhi (11,33) and Bombay(8,34),in swamp,irrigated after.
My first trireme with settler for the middle island lost at the sea,the second lucky..
AI played bad,I maked Lighthouse and Colossus in the middle island,and with 5 cities easy to eliminate,AI no triremes or other ships in my game.The problem is the restart in the one tile/ island,hard to have a troop on every tile.....
 
I have not finished gotm161 yet so it will be a while for me as well. While I may change my mind later, my current inclination is to build only one city in the homeland and go for space. Conquest on this map seems boring.

By the way, this kind of discussion (pre any actual playing) can take place in the game thread and does not have to be in the spoiler.
 
Conquest on this map seems boring.

Just what I thought. However there might be a battle for the green star.
But I also think that OCC would not be much of a challenge, this map will not let the AI be competetive.
So I chose the hard way and went for a big spaceship game, even though there will not be much food (before harbours), shields (before offshore platforms) and space to settle. So it will take a lot longer than in the last game.

-4000 Move onto river
-3950 Delhi founded
-3900 Research Alph
-3650 Alph->Burial
-3300 s1-settler built, need a quick warrior now for crowd control
-3100 Bombay founded
-2950 Burial->Mapmaking
-2400 Mapmaking->Laws;
-1950 1st boat built, will sail southeast with 2 settlers
-1850 Laws->Monarchy
-1800 Madras (island 15) founded
-1700 Bangalore (island 16) founded, 17 of 60 beakers done
-1450 Begin LH in Delhi
-1400 57 beakers done; check out island 13, sign peace with Rome, get Bronze working
-1250 Monarchy (revolt & est.)->Currency;

Stats at 1000 BC:
pop.: 100k; Cities: 4; techs: 6; gold: 150; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 2 settler, 4 warrior, 1 boat
Goals: Expand; Lighthouse?
 
Just what I thought. However there might be a battle for the green star.
But I also think that OCC would not be much of a challenge, this map will not let the AI be competetive.
So I chose the hard way and went for a big spaceship game, even though there will not be much food (before harbours), shields (before offshore platforms) and space to settle. So it will take a lot longer than in the last game.

-4000 Move onto river
-3950 Delhi founded
-3900 Research Alph
-3650 Alph->Burial
-3300 s1-settler built, need a quick warrior now for crowd control
-3100 Bombay founded
-2950 Burial->Mapmaking
-2400 Mapmaking->Laws;
-1950 1st boat built, will sail southeast with 2 settlers
-1850 Laws->Monarchy
-1800 Madras (island 15) founded
-1700 Bangalore (island 16) founded, 17 of 60 beakers done
-1450 Begin LH in Delhi
-1400 57 beakers done; check out island 13, sign peace with Rome, get Bronze working
-1250 Monarchy (revolt & est.)->Currency;

Stats at 1000 BC:
pop.: 100k; Cities: 4; techs: 6; gold: 150; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 2 settler, 4 warrior, 1 boat
Goals: Expand; Lighthouse?

2 settlers in a trireme is a risk:) and 80 shields,are you sure they cross 5 tiles :)?.I sent just one settler and ....puffff,food for fish:).
 
2 settlers in a trireme is a risk:) and 80 shields,are you sure they cross 5 tiles :)?.I sent just one settler and ....puffff,food for fish:).

That was no risk, the trireme started outside our home-island and had 3 steps to end the turn just on the shore of island 15, so it was a safe passage. Same for the next step to island 16. I did not take the risk and headed for the big island.
 
That was no risk, the trireme started outside our home-island and had 3 steps to end the turn just on the shore of island 15, so it was a safe passage. Same for the next step to island 16. I did not take the risk and headed for the big island.

OK:),I don't know more about this game,more tricks,and to read all about these in forum,etc,is too late,2015:)
Good luck !
 
I thought about this one for a few days but didn't reach the conclusions
"Conquest on this map seems boring" or "OCC not much of a challenge".

But I did decide only a single city on the first island, perhaps based on similar thinking that doing two or three would be a waste of playing on this map.

Let's see how we get on, and decide later what to do. Maybe more cities on several little islands and put trade routes in place for a big spaceship, maybe just OCC, often quite a challenge for me, or just maybe we can conquer from one city?

I'm not sure how best to go about the start. It is Deity and we only have one special to work with, so it is not a piece of cake. There are probably different ways of playing the first 100 turns or so. I don't know which is best, and I probably can't think of them all. But given we're not chasing green this time and the AI lacks terrain, perhaps it does not matter so much. Let's just go with one approach and see how we get on. At least we are unlikely to get thrown off our chosen technical path.

Like Major_Advantage I chose to move before founding the city. Unlike the Major, I chose Writing as the extra technology en route to Monarchy. But we became monarchy in the same year.

4000- Move
3950- Found StMary at (9,33) #12. Worker on whales. Start on CB.
3800- RB 1 shield, change to settler. Worker to forest.
3600- Discover CB -> Alp.
3500- Worker back to whales.
3300- Size-1 settler, moves to shielded grass. Worker gets a holiday.
3250- RB warrior. Workers both at sea.
3200- Garrison built. Road completes. Start on temple.
3150- Settler starts mining hill, but then I clear their orders.
3100- Discover Alp -> Writing. Settler to plains.
3050- Settler builds road.
3000- Settler starts irrigation.

2800- Irrigation completes,
2750- Move to unshielded grass.
2700- Temple completes and is sold to save maintenance.
2650- Road completes.
2550- Discover Writing -> CoL.
2500- Partial RB to Library.

2400- Irrigation done.
2350- Start more irrigation.
2100- Three squares now irrigated, start mining hill.
2000- Library completes.

1850- Discover CoL -> Monarchy. 2nd warrior completes, uses shield for support.
1650- Mine finished.
1600- Settler to swamp.

1350- Temple built.
1250- Discover Monarchy -> BW. Become Monarchy.

Stats at 1000BC.
Pop: 3 (60,000). 59g. 5 techs. Cost: 2.
1 settler, 2 warriors, 1 dip.
Goals: Trade. Grow the single city.
 
When I started the game, I wanted to play a quick game. So I decided I would be trying for Conquest. I also decided that I would build 2 cities on the initial island.
My game started similarly to Major's. But I didn't switch my worker to the forest until after Alphabet was discovered.
Our order of settlement was much different. To be perfectly honest, I never realized that islands 15 and 16 were within trireme distance. I never did make that trip.

-4000 Move to river
-3950 build Delhi
-3900 start Alphabet
-3800 RB 1sh (going for size 1)
-3700 Alphabet -> Code of Laws (22), switch worker to forest
-3300 Size 1 Settler, moves to shielded grass
-3250 settler starts road
-3150 Size 2, Warrior, settler moves into Delhi and charges
-3100 settler moves to grass, T/L/S = 5/0/5
-3050 settler builds road
-3000 CoL -> Map Making (33), settler moves to plains

stats at -3000:
pop.: .03; cities: 1; techs: 2, gov: Despotism, gold: 30; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior
wonders: None

Romans: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact

-2950 Bombay founded
-2850 RB Delhi 1sh, Bombay 6sh
-2600 Map Making -> Ceremonial Burial (48)
-2500 RB Bombay 14sh (37)
-2450 Delhi Settlers, Bombay Trireme, Trireme moves off-shore
-2400 Trireme moves next to island 14, settler disembarks
-2350 Madras founded (4,40,14)
-2050 CB -> Monarchy (60)
-2000 RB Madras 1sh

stats at -2000:
pop.: .07; cities: 3; techs: 2, gov: Despotism, gold: 37; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 3 Warriors, 1 Trireme
wonders: None

Romans: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact

-1900 Bombay and Delhi Settlers
-1800 Bangalore founded at (16,40,15)
-1650 Monarchy -> Bronze Working (72), REVOLUTION, Monarchy established
-1600 Calcutta founded at (16,28,10)
-1500 Madras Settler
-1450 RB Bangalore 3sh
-1400 100k
-1350 Delhi Settlers, Lahore founded at (38,40,17)
-1300 BW -> Currency (84), RB Madras 2sh+10sh
-1200 RB Bombay 2sh
-1150 RB Delhi 2sh, Bangalore 5 sh
-1050 Currency -> Trade (104)

stats at -1000:
pop.: .19; cities: 6; techs: 7, gov: Monarchy, gold: 122; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 1 Warriors, 1 Trireme
wonders: None

Romans: No Contact
Egyptians: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact
 
I thought about this one for a few days but didn't reach the conclusions
"Conquest on this map seems boring" or "OCC not much of a challenge".

But I did decide only a single city on the first island, perhaps based on similar thinking that doing two or three would be a waste of playing on this map.

Let's see how we get on, and decide later what to do. Maybe more cities on several little islands and put trade routes in place for a big spaceship, maybe just OCC, often quite a challenge for me, or just maybe we can conquer from one city?

I'm not sure how best to go about the start. It is Deity and we only have one special to work with, so it is not a piece of cake. There are probably different ways of playing the first 100 turns or so. I don't know which is best, and I probably can't think of them all. But given we're not chasing green this time and the AI lacks terrain, perhaps it does not matter so much. Let's just go with one approach and see how we get on. At least we are unlikely to get thrown off our chosen technical path.

Like Major_Advantage I chose to move before founding the city. Unlike the Major, I chose Writing as the extra technology en route to Monarchy. But we became monarchy in the same year.

4000- Move
3950- Found StMary at (9,33) #12. Worker on whales. Start on CB.
3800- RB 1 shield, change to settler. Worker to forest.
3600- Discover CB -> Alp.
3500- Worker back to whales.
3300- Size-1 settler, moves to shielded grass. Worker gets a holiday.
3250- RB warrior. Workers both at sea.
3200- Garrison built. Road completes. Start on temple.
3150- Settler starts mining hill, but then I clear their orders.
3100- Discover Alp -> Writing. Settler to plains.
3050- Settler builds road.
3000- Settler starts irrigation.

2800- Irrigation completes,
2750- Move to unshielded grass.
2700- Temple completes and is sold to save maintenance.
2650- Road completes.
2550- Discover Writing -> CoL.
2500- Partial RB to Library.

2400- Irrigation done.
2350- Start more irrigation.
2100- Three squares now irrigated, start mining hill.
2000- Library completes.

1850- Discover CoL -> Monarchy. 2nd warrior completes, uses shield for support.
1650- Mine finished.
1600- Settler to swamp.

1350- Temple built.
1250- Discover Monarchy -> BW. Become Monarchy.

Stats at 1000BC.
Pop: 3 (60,000). 59g. 5 techs. Cost: 2.
1 settler, 2 warriors, 1 dip.
Goals: Trade. Grow the single city.

'3150- Settler starts mining hill, but then I clear their orders.'

This funny settler wants to make mine in (10,34),river,without bridge building...:)

Can make mine,sorry,confusion...
 
'3150- Settler starts mining hill, but then I clear their orders.'

This funny settler want to make mine in (10,34),river,without bridge building...:)

Of course haleewud's log shows how to write this more impressively
haleewud said:
settler moves into Delhi and charges

Good work getting to Monarchy in -1650.
 
So my log is not so interesting for comparison as I stay with 1 city.

925- Settler completes draining swamp.
875- Build and sell barracks.
800- Discover BW -> Currency. Finish another warrior.
775- Size=4.
675- Build and sell barracks. Start on wonder.
550- Discover Currency -> Trade.

375- Size=5. At last, top of the cities table.
250- Discover Trade -> MM.
1AD - Complete MPE. Settler rejoins city - size now 6.

We are Supreme Monarchy, have 8 techs, and are a long way with MM. Cost is 2.
Romans have 6, incl MM and Pottery.
Egyptians have 5, incl MM.
Greeks have 4 incl HBR.

Swap Trade to Egyptians(4) to get MM, peace, give CB, swap maps. They are opposite corner, and have barb chief on their island.

Give CB and MM to Greeks, get peace, maps. They are north.
Give Trade and Writing to Romans, get peace, maps. They are west.
 
I started playing late last night soon after finishing 161 off. Could not believe myself since 161 late turns took so long. I had quite a long Civ2 marathon this weekend!

My goal from the start was clear: space ship. Unlike others, and as stated previously, I built only one city in homeland. Do not see the rationale for building more. Mapmaking was my second tech and ready in time for venturing out. With 3 (one tile) islands within immediate trireme reach why bother?

The other early decision was whether to move and build on the river like everyone else. I thought about it much and decided that since initially the extra arrow will go to taxes and not science it is not worth it. One thing I did not think about (and should have) is that the river also gives a 50% defense bonus. While I do not expect the rivals venturing out any time soon, the barbarians could have been a problem. I only realized this when in -2350 I got a message that the barbarians wiped out the Greeks. Thankfully I was lucky and have had no encounters with barbarians yet.

The other early decision was choice of government. Given the lack of huts, the geography (everyone on their own island which means little chance of tribute), and the space ship goal, I decided to go for Republic instead of Monarchy. I mapped out my tech sequence right from the start and it worked as planned except that I realized too late I cannot make -1050 oedo year and despite lowering science to the minimum I still got Republic a turn before the next oedo year and had to do a full turn revolution.
 
-4000 Building on river is tempting, but given that initially the extra arrow will go to taxes and not science I decided against it. Delhi founded. Going for size 1 settler. Goal is space ship. Given the lack of huts, will go for Republic instead of Monarchy.
-3950 -> Alphabet.
-3750 Alphabet -> Mapmaking
-3350 Settler produced. T0L4S6 to prevent rioting.
-3300 Settler starts mining the hill.
-3250 T4L0S6
-3200 Warrior produced for crowd control. Trireme is next.
-3050 Mapmaking -> Writing.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.03M; Cities: 1; Techs: 2; Government: Despotism
Gold: 10; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 settler, 1 warrior
Goals: Expansion and Republic
Roman: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
Greek: no contact

-2800 Trireme produced. Heading SE to island 15.
-2700 Bombay founded.
-2450 Writing -> Code of Laws.
-2350 Greek civilization destroyed by barbarians. This is a game changer. With restarts on the respawn will certainly be on the main island.
-2250 Madras founded on island 14 (SW).

Status at -2000
Population: 0.07M; Cities: 3; Techs: 3; Government: Despotism
Gold: 4; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 1 warrior, 1 Trireme
Footprint: Islands 12, 14, and 15.
Goals: Expansion and Republic
Roman: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
Greek: Destroyed by barbarians
orange: ?
Barbarian: no contact

-1900 Code of Laws -> Literacy.
-1850 Bangalore founded on island 10 (NE).
-1500 Calcutta founded on island 16. Riot factor sets in. Banglore's only citizen is now unhappy; turning him into an entertainer causes a food deficit since the city center is desert.
-1450 Literacy -> Republic.
-1300 Lahore founded on island 17.
-1150 Cannot make Republic by -1050 oedo year. T6L0S4
-1050 Karachi founded on island 8.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.09M; Cities: 7; Techs: 5; Government: Despotism
Gold: 9; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 warriors, 2 Triremes
Footprint: Islands 8, 10, 12, 14 to 17.
Goals: Expansion and Republic in -925
Roman: no contact
Egyptian: no contact
Greek: Destroyed by barbarians
English: no contact
Barbarian: no contact
 
As I kept playing past -1000 I kept thinking about wonder choices. I have played close to -500 and have not started any wonders yet nor do I have any vans. But here are some thoughts:

Marco
I decided to do without it. The map is known and very small; I knew where everyone is; and everyone is trireme reachable. Making embassies is cheaper and quicker. In fact, I established the Roman embassy while researching Bronze. But the game is full of surprises and as it turned out, the Greeks were wiped out and the English (expectedly) ended up on the main central island which I cannot reach for a while. But overall I still think I made the right decision skipping Marco.

Lighthouse
I decided to delay the decision on whether to build it or not till I have expanded to all 12 tiny islands which are trireme reachable. The main island is far more resourceful than these tiny ones but at the cost of 200 shields (roughly 4-5 settlers) and with many tiny ones having access to whales, I think I have made the right decision.

Hanging Gardens
With the decision to skip Monarchy in favor of early Republic in my game, Hanging Gardens takes on extra importance. Playing at Deity level, of course, gives it extra urgency as well. I am pretty sure it will be my first wonder.

Pyramids
I typically skip Pyramids in favor of other early game wonders. Given that it is an AI favorite, it is usually built before I even have a chance to seriously consider it. With the decision to go with early Republic in this game, the Pyramids is even less important than it was if I was in Monarchy. But with several tiny islands on desert, and the single city rivals unlikely to be building anything, it is not crossed off my list yet.

Colossus
Always a favorite of mine in any game. Will definitely build it here. The only question is when.
 
The expression "ploughing your own furrow" comes to mind as I stick with OCC and others build many cities. Meanwhile haleewud reports he is after conquest, and is first out of despotism, whilst the Major and Ali head for spaceships. They have taken different approaches so far; Ali having more cities at 1000BC and heading for imminent republic, whilst the Major has become a monarchy. I am looking forward to reading more about these games.

My own game, continued from 1AD:

60- Discover Mysticism -> Literacy.
100- Complete Gems van. None of our goods are demanded, choose the most valuable. Give Monarchy to Egyptians(3).
180- Notice that Athens now wants gems.
240- Land the van next to Athens. Pirate ship is nearby.
Greeks and Romans go to war.
260- Complete hides van.
Athens holds off barb archer attack. It is Greek chariots attacking Rome.
280- Discover Literacy -> Republic.
Swap Mysticism to Greeks to get HBR.
Van, Gems to Athens, for 203g.
300- Discover Republic -> Polytheism. Revolution. Become Republic.
Keep 2 warriors and dip for defence.
360- Complete beads van. Ship captures barb leader on Egyptian island - 50g.
420- Another van.
440- Give Republic to Romans. Greeks are not so easy to get on with.
500- Greeks have founded another city.

Stats.
Size 7. 169g. 13 techs. Republic. Supreme. 1 route. Cost: 2.
MPE.
2 warriors, 1 trireme, 1 dip, 3 vans.
 
520- Discover Polytheism -> Pottery. Swap Literacy to Egyptians to get Pottery.
540- Start on Philosophy. Complete van. Add vans to wonder.
560- Build Colossus.
580- Disband warrior and trireme.
600- Complete ele - for defence. Give Republic to Egyptians, Monarchy to the Romans.
Romans offer 100g to fight Greeks, who have a phalanx sitting outside Rome - we decline.

680- Build marketplace.
700- Discover Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Medicine.

Try various worker setups etc. Might as well grow to size 8 - am halfway, will take 7 turns. Will play safe and build a crusader too.

780- Build crusader, disband warrior.
800- Romans develop Seafaring.

840- Pirates land. Greeks develop Iron.
860- Size=8. Crusader kills pirates.
880- Beads van completes (no demand.)

940- Discover Medicine -> Masonry.
Swap Philosophy to Egyptians(3) to get Masonry.
Swap Philosophy to Romans(4) to get Seafaring, and give Literacy. We have 20 techs.
Greeks(5) are hostile, and don't need our help.
960- Start on Maths.
1000- Complete Salt van (no demand).

Stats.
Size 8. 138g. 20 techs. Republic. 1 route. Cost 3.
MPE, Colossus.
Ele, Crusader, Dip, 2 vans.

Romans - Enthusastic. 14 techs, Rome(6). Researching Maths.
Egyptians - Enthusiastic. 12 techs, Thebes(5). Researching BW.
Greeks - Hostile. 9 techs, 3 cities. Researching Alphabet.

Do we want to attack using our crusaders? So far we have just been concerned for defence against pirates. If we do have an aggressive war we should have built Lighthouse rather than Colossus, as we will need Lighthouse because of the central island. Can we afford that in time, as well as the ships and crusaders? How much should we try to placate the Greeks? Do we give away more techs to keep the world's speed of tech advance going, but does that conflict with a coming war?
 
In this period I established Republic as expected and kept on expanding. Initially the Republic was a big help with the riot factor but soon that advantage went away. Furthermore I had the problem of cities that could not produce anything because their single shield was being used for support.

By -500 I had 11 cities and settlers ready waiting for boats to go build two more. That would leave just one unoccupied island other than the large central one. I realized then that I could not put off the decision about Lighthouse anymore. I quickly reached the conclusion that I need it and need it soon. Two other factors contributed to this. One was knowing that the English are there and wondering if I can get any techs out of them. The second was that I realized the southern tip of the central island is a more suitable site for SSC than my capital (though not by much).

-0950 Republic -> Bronze Working. Revolution started.
-0925 Republic established. T8L0S2. 2 warriors disbanded. Only the one protecting Delhi kept.
-0875 Kolhapur founded on island 11.
-0750 Athens bribed for 156g. Got a diplomat and 4 archers. There is another barbarian archer on the island which is killed by one of my archers. Disbanded two archers due to support cost. T6L2S2
-0725 T4L4S2. Roman embassy established.
Literacy, Republic, Writing -> Roman (5) -> peace, Bronze Working, Currency
I wanted to do more, but they cut me off.
-0700 -> Pottery. Mapmaking, Code of Laws -> Roman -> Pottery, Ceremonial Burial
-0675 -> Trade. T3L4S3
-0625 Literacy -> Egyptian (4) -> peace. I turn down their offer of Masonry for exchange. Egyptian embassy established.
-0575 Trade -> Mysticism. Jaipur founded on island 9.
-0525 Hyderabad founded on island 2.

Status at -500
Population: 0.28M; Cities: 11; Techs: 11; Government: Republic
Gold: 28; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 2 settlers, 1 warrior, 2 archers, 3 triremes, 1 diplomat
Footprint: One city in each of home, Greece, 9 of the 12 one-tile islands.
Goals: Settlement of remaining 3 one-tile islands; Lighthouse and Hanging Gardens; Philosophy
Roman: 1 city, 10 techs
Egyptian: 1 city, 6 techs
Greek: Destroyed by barbarians
English: no contact

-0475 Barbarian Archer lands near Thebes and is killed by Egyptians.
-0400 Bengal and Chittagong founded on islands 1 and 4. T2L5S3
-0350 Mysticism -> Philosophy.
-0325 Punjab founded on the last of one-tile islands.
-0175 T0L6S4
-0150 Philosophy -> Seafaring -> Masonry. Philosophy -> Egyptian -> Masonry. Silver from Delhi to Thebes for 202 establishes the first trade route.
-0125 -> Construction. Barbarian trireme by undefended Madras. T2L6S2
-0100 Barbarians stay put. Construction -> Math. Lighthouse built.
-0075 First infrastructure, a temple in Athens, built. Warrior Code from polar hut.
-0050 Found English on the main island. They demanded Construction and declared war when I refused. London is landlocked next to the mountain. It has to be destroyed.
-0025 Barbarian ship attacks Madras and kill my diplomat who was heading to London. Settler survives English warrior and turns vet. English move in a horse and a Phalanx. Archer kills English horse. Beads from Delhi to London for 104. Dacca founded at the southern tip of the central island. It will be the science city if it survives.
+0001 English build a road for Dacca!

Status at +0001
Population: 0.68M; Cities: 15; Techs: 17; Government: Republic
Gold: 101; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D2F;
Wonders: Lighthouse
Units: 2 settlers, 3 archers, 4 triremes, 2 diplomats, 1 van
Footprint: one city in each of home, Greece, all 12 one-tile islands, central island.
Goals: Conquest of English; razing or relocation of London; Hanging Gardens, Michelangelo
Roman: 1 city, 13 techs
Egyptian: 1 city, 9 techs
Greek: Destroyed by barbarians
English: no embassy; war with me
 
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