GOTM #3: Ideas

[Håkan Eriksson]

Wouldn't it be cool if the GOTM #3 would start at modern age! Every civ would have 15-20 cities and equal armies.

[This message has been edited by Håkan Eriksson (edited March 09, 2001).]

 

[MadMelkor]

or one with no wonders, or no spaceship

 

[Thunderfall]

For April, we probably will have a Deity level game... This month's GOTM is far too easy; maybe it would have been much harder if I didn't play the first few turns for you, I am too good at this game....

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by shadowdale:
No no no!!! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/supersaiyan.gif" border=0>
We aren't playing the GotM so that that best of the best can play against each others - the GotM was made so that a lot of Fanatics could play against each others and measure their skills!!! To ever make a GotM on Deity level would be to exclude 9/10 of the people in this forum!!!
Keep it on Prince/King/Emperor to make it fun and "challenging" for most of us!!

And I think he's absolutely right!

I msut admit, I'm quite conservative at this point. It's fine the way it is now. Ofcourse there will be a 'bloodlust' game. And we have an accellerated startup now. And ofcourse we'll have different types of land. But the bigger the alteration, the less people who will like that.

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<FONT size="1">Chemistry is: having fun, drinking beer, having more fun, drinking more beer, hang above the toilet and have a good night sleep!</FONT s>

 

[shadowdale]

I think that it could be fun to get a game where you Civ isn't much better then the AI and then you are going to have to play either "peace, peace, peace" or you will have to go to war with AI's that are either your equal are better!!!!
That way we can't expand as much or as easily!!!

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Veni Vidi Vici.

Coolbook:
Håkan Eriksson, Stormerne, vladmir_illych_lenin, Cunobelin Of Hippo, PaleHorse76.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by shadowdale:
I think that it could be fun to get a game where you Civ isn't much better then the AI and then you are going to have to play either "peace, peace, peace" or you will have to go to war with AI's that are either your equal are better!!!!
That way we can't expand as much or as easily!!!

Well, <u>some</u> of us already experienced that in the first GOTM, shadowdale. The fact that you did it so a-socially well...is your problem.

But seriously: How did you want to accomplish that for <u>everyone</u>? The only thing I can come up with, is another accelerated startup, but this time played at first by me, instead of Thunderfall...

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<FONT size="1">Chemistry is: having fun, drinking beer, having more fun, drinking more beer, hang above the toilet and have a good night sleep!</FONT s>

 

[Johan511]

Whats the big deal about deity, The AI is still pretty dumb in diety, you all can do IT.
Deity medium map 7 civs, (the hardest settings I know) Go for it, I'll be more fun than you've had with civ in awhile.

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“It’s the critic’s job to interpret the artist, even to the artist himself. They merely state the hidden significance that was subconsciously in the artist’s own mind”
-Ayn Rand

 

[stormerne]

While I sympathise with some of the others, I agree with Shadowdale and Matrix. I think GOTM should continue to focus on the medium levels to include as many people as possible.

When I first thought of the GOTM idea, it was in response to calls to find the best Civ players via multi-player. I argued that players with a busy professional and married life - especially when one is good at many other things as well as Civ - would be excluded from these contests because they would not be able to find the large amounts of contiguous time needed for multi-player. That's why I suggested GOTM because it would allow people like me to squeeze games played in many small parts into their busy schedules.

Now, having established GOTM as a cool idea that lots of people can get enthusiastic about, I believe it would be a terribly misguided step backwards to suddenly exclude people again - this time for a different reason - by hoicking the playing level always to be Deity.

So I suggest two things. Either...
(1) Leave GOTM as it is for now with the emphasis on the medium levels, or
(2) As a compromise, have multiple GOTMs, with one game per playing level per month.

Suggestion (2) has disadvantages, especially for Matrix administering it! It also has the more subtle disadvantage of meaning that strategies cannot be shared and discussed after the game between players of different experience levels - which is fine for the elite cliques, but not so good if we have the alternative goal (as I have) of trying to boost the overall skill level of Civ, rather than that of just a few individuals. On the other hand, it might appease the minority who consistently want harder games.

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"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" - Anais Nin

 

[Leowind]

I vote for continuing to move the level around from game to game. Even an occasional one at Deity would be acceptable, as long as an occasional one at King is included, as well. Let's not make this too rigid. We need to challenge the really good players occasionally, and draw in new players (joining the forum everyday) too. If someone feels a particular GOTM is too difficult, they can skip it (as I did the first one). If the idea is to share strategies, well, several have mentioned in other topics that different strategies are needed for different levels, so lets explore them all!

 

[Smash]

If GoM creators save the game as a scenario then you can play on whatever level you like.

con-that opens up the tech tree so there is no "randomness" of choices.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Smash:
If GoM creators save the game as a scenario then you can play on whatever level you like.

con-that opens up the tech tree so there is no "randomness" of choices.

But then the people will still play on different levels and in essence a different game, because I still can't mix those games together in a ranking. And after all, it's all about the ranking, otherwise you could just play a normal game yourself, as usual...

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<FONT size="1">Chemistry is: having fun, drinking beer, having more fun, drinking more beer, hang above the toilet and have a good night sleep!</FONT s>

 

[Johan511]

I say we settle this at a Compromise, Play King, Emporor, Deity, one month for each.
That would be 4 games for each level of play per Year. It doesn't get much more fair than that.
PS we've had the king, and emperor games, now it's time for some deity!
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Small minds discuss about people; Middle minds talk about facts; Great minds dialog about Ideas.

[This message has been edited by Johan511 (edited March 06, 2001).]

 

[Smash]

I was just thinkin that might cause a mini nightmare for our beloved statistician

 

[Johan511]

Well if the formulas for king, deity and emperor are different all he has to do is make three formula's, then he's got it.

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Small minds discuss about people; Middle minds talk about facts; Great minds dialog about Ideas.

 

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Smash:
I was just thinkin that might cause a mini nightmare for our beloved statistician <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif" border=0>

Skip "beloved" and you'd be absolutely right!

It will still be comparing three different type of games together. Statistically

that doesn't make any sense. When everyone plays at the same level, you can also simply compare how far people have reached or how well they did. That's not possible when there are different levels.

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<FONT size="1">Chemistry is: having fun, drinking beer, having more fun, drinking more beer, hang above the toilet and have a good night sleep!</FONT s>

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

People can still measure how well they did in a particular game even if they don't finish, right? So in order to give the greateest number of people a challenge and something to aim for, we should make the game harder not easier. I'll grant that Deity is probably too much, but something like GOTM 1 every month would give everyone a challenge. I don't care if I can't finish sometimes: some of the best CIV stories are the grand defeats!

More important, if the game is always at a particular level (and perhaps settings too, but let's leave that for later), it would be easy to compare everyone's score not only that one month, but also month-to-month, in order to measure relative improvement. So the weaker players may die out consistently at the beginning, and get scores in the X% for a while, but they'll improve their game much more quickly in the long run.

Soooo, I vote for something like GOTM 1 every month... Anyone with me?

A man's reach should exceed his grasp--else what's a heaven for?Text

[This message has been edited by goodbye_mr_bond (edited March 06, 2001).]

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

One more thing:

Originally posted by Leowind:
We need to challenge the really good players occasionally, and draw in new players (joining the forum everyday) too.

Do you mean new players or new members? I joined Civfanatics less than a month ago, but I've been playing CIV for almost 9 years now.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

An occasional Deity game will be a good experience for most of us. Before GOTM #1 I had never played above King, and despite what most agree was not the best starting situation I managed to win. I am looking forward to the challenge of a Deity game soon once I get some free time and wouldn't mind doing it in a GOTM game so if it does go horribly wrong, I can see what worked for others.

I think the idea of keeping about an even distribution of King/Emperor/Deity games (but only one in any given month) will be good for all of us. It doesn't have to be a strict rotation, just keep it balanced between them over the long haul. Maybe you can make it more of a bell curve with more Emperor, and fewer of both Deity and King.

Just some thoughts.

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There are some who call me...Tim

 

[Kev]

I'm all for rotating levels - as well as map sizes, amount of rival civs and start times.

As far as which one each month, perhaps you can give 3 or 4 choices in a poll about a week before the month begins. You can leave out any choice dealing with the month prior.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock

[This message has been edited by Kev (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

[Leowind]

Originally posted by goodbye_mr_bond:
One more thing:

Originally posted by Leowind:
We need to challenge the really good players occasionally, and draw in new players (joining the forum everyday) too.

Do you mean new players or new members? I joined Civfanatics less than a month ago, but I've been playing CIV for almost 9 years now.

I was thinking of both, actually. I've seen new members talk about having played for years, but are still mucking around in Chieftain or Prince and are amazed that people even win at Deity, let alone get high scores. If the purpose of GOTM is to compare strategies and help us all get better, than we need to make it accessible to players with lower skill levels. I include myself in this group. I skipped the first GOTM because I was just working my way up through Prince level. I put that game on hold for GOTM#2, and once I finish it, will be ready for an Emperor game I'm sure.