GOTM 31 Final Spoiler
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Conquest Loss
Game date: 1932AD
Turns played: 342
Base score: 918
Final score: 1651
Time played: 3:47:22
As I said... I was suprised that I was able to kiss butt to survive this long. At the peak (say 500AD), I had about 5 cities. Some good, some bad, some ugly. Way behind everyone on tech, so I couldn't even offer anything for trade.
Mao went on a rampage that eliminated my neighbor to the east (forget who, India?), and my biggest mistake (besides the one where a mere mortal trys to play immortal level) was to move a dormant settler into the open land and build a city. Mao did not like that. He went from pleased to DOW in one heartbeat. Needless to say, my handfull of muskets did not last long against stacks of tanks. Game over. I can't remember any other game where I hit enter so many times consecutively.
Game status: Conquest Loss
Game date: 1932AD
Turns played: 342
Base score: 918
Final score: 1651
Time played: 3:47:22
As I said... I was suprised that I was able to kiss butt to survive this long. At the peak (say 500AD), I had about 5 cities. Some good, some bad, some ugly. Way behind everyone on tech, so I couldn't even offer anything for trade.
Mao went on a rampage that eliminated my neighbor to the east (forget who, India?), and my biggest mistake (besides the one where a mere mortal trys to play immortal level) was to move a dormant settler into the open land and build a city. Mao did not like that. He went from pleased to DOW in one heartbeat. Needless to say, my handfull of muskets did not last long against stacks of tanks. Game over. I can't remember any other game where I hit enter so many times consecutively.
By 500AD things were ok : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6904861&postcount=2
Things were pretty peaceful and quiet while I finished up reasearch. Got to Liberalism very late, at 1020AD, but was first to get there. But I allready regretted my 1 cottage/2 GP city plan. (Slow research, less efficient GA on standard speed, oh well). Finished up research by 1140AD and got ready to build some culture.
Signed a DP with Kublai around 1000AD, and had fairly good diplo relations all around by this time. Around 1140AD everyone seemed to take part in the "let's wipe the floor with Mao movement". Mao was pretty much at war from this point, and I made the mistake of getting in on the war later when asked to join in. A turn later I was alone at war, but it didn't really matter. Got out of it 10 turns later. Lost the DP with Kublai and nothing more.
After Asoka eliminated Mao, I had to take extra care on the diplo front to make sure there were more, well, annoying targets to take out before word got out I was defending with yesterday's military fad. Near the end I switched state religion to match Nappy and hopefully keep him off my back as his cities got crammed by my culture.
The endgame got pretty bad for me due to the flawed 1 cottage/2gp city plan, and I had to abandon that and convert my southern city to cottages. It worked out in the end, but Moscow went legendary turn 256 while the last two cities only got there by turn 308.
That meant a cultural victory by 1876 AD.
It's the latest cultural victory I've ever gotten, it's also my first win on Immortal, so at least there's that, right?
Looking forward to next month.
Bugg123
Things were pretty peaceful and quiet while I finished up reasearch. Got to Liberalism very late, at 1020AD, but was first to get there. But I allready regretted my 1 cottage/2 GP city plan. (Slow research, less efficient GA on standard speed, oh well). Finished up research by 1140AD and got ready to build some culture.
Signed a DP with Kublai around 1000AD, and had fairly good diplo relations all around by this time. Around 1140AD everyone seemed to take part in the "let's wipe the floor with Mao movement". Mao was pretty much at war from this point, and I made the mistake of getting in on the war later when asked to join in. A turn later I was alone at war, but it didn't really matter. Got out of it 10 turns later. Lost the DP with Kublai and nothing more.
After Asoka eliminated Mao, I had to take extra care on the diplo front to make sure there were more, well, annoying targets to take out before word got out I was defending with yesterday's military fad. Near the end I switched state religion to match Nappy and hopefully keep him off my back as his cities got crammed by my culture.
The endgame got pretty bad for me due to the flawed 1 cottage/2gp city plan, and I had to abandon that and convert my southern city to cottages. It worked out in the end, but Moscow went legendary turn 256 while the last two cities only got there by turn 308.
That meant a cultural victory by 1876 AD.
It's the latest cultural victory I've ever gotten, it's also my first win on Immortal, so at least there's that, right?
Looking forward to next month.
Bugg123
This was my second Civ IV GOTM. I played adventurer class and started of okish I thought, had a small war with france and came out of it with an extra city, unfortunately I neglected improving my empire a bit too much, and although I got to alphabet first and managed to trade around to catch up in tech, it took me many many turns to get my next technology as my economy had collapsed. I did take part in the destruction of the Indian empire and took two cities, which was fun. The most I had was 8 which is more than I was expecting. Eventually though France declared war again and I did not last long. Got finished off in 1550 AD. Final Score: 379.
Condolences on your loss.
What level do you normally play? For me, Immortal is only for laughs... I know I will lose one way or another. I actually started believing I might not get conquered, up until Mao DOW'd me, though. I mostly play GOTM's for the learning exp, but its hard to believe anything I learned from this game will be useful. I am hoping more ppl post how they won so I can learn a bit. I already know how to lose. 
for sticking it out to the bitter end. I admire that. Retirers and non-submitters I have nothing but disdain for.
You folks who won this game, even if you won ugly or slow, I bow to your greatness.
Plz share the wisdom. Thx Bugg, btw.What level do I normally play? Well when I said this was my second GOTM I also meant this was the second game of Civ I've played in about a year. And before then I'd only been playing fall from heaven. So I don't really have a normal level.
I kinda threw myself in the deep end with the deity and immortal games that have been going on.
I do like to play through to the end no matter what, especially since when it starts going downhill it's usually over pretty quickly, but I suppose it can become tedious.
I kinda threw myself in the deep end with the deity and immortal games that have been going on.
I do like to play through to the end no matter what, especially since when it starts going downhill it's usually over pretty quickly, but I suppose it can become tedious.
PutCashIn
Prince
I have only won at Monarch max, so pretty soon, even with adventurer start, Nappy attacks and takes one of my 3 citys.
Somehow, I think by getting alphabet first, I made peace, with 2 citys remaining, but access to my fav res, Horsies, plus a 3rd or 4th city (and a settler already built) site within reach.
I totally think I would have been able to build enough dudes to have another classic war-with-Nappy (tm), eventually I would have lost but the toughest fights are sometimes the best ( like a 3v3 Kasyr DOW map when one of your team drops and its 3v2 for 1.5 hours and the kills are like 600-600-600 (L) / 800 -700 - 12 (W) )
...but a bad timed windoze reinstall (gf gained +10 levels in 'spywarez' by playing online 'gemwar' or summin...gotta watch those online checkers style games players) halted my doomed efforts.
Psst.....Do we do deity vanilla next month?
Somehow, I think by getting alphabet first, I made peace, with 2 citys remaining, but access to my fav res, Horsies, plus a 3rd or 4th city (and a settler already built) site within reach.
I totally think I would have been able to build enough dudes to have another classic war-with-Nappy (tm), eventually I would have lost but the toughest fights are sometimes the best ( like a 3v3 Kasyr DOW map when one of your team drops and its 3v2 for 1.5 hours and the kills are like 600-600-600 (L) / 800 -700 - 12 (W) )
...but a bad timed windoze reinstall (gf gained +10 levels in 'spywarez' by playing online 'gemwar' or summin...gotta watch those online checkers style games players) halted my doomed efforts.
Psst.....Do we do deity vanilla next month?
Ronnie1
Deity
This won't be much of a spoiler because I didn't take any notes. I have some saves, 1640bc, 1000bc, 1ad, 500ad, 840ad, 900ad, 1565ad, and the later more tedious saves to try and recreate from, so here goes! I won, but it was ugly and late, 2000AD by Domination. I settled Moscow 1N of the starting spot on turn 2 after moving the scout NE*2 and seeing the forests (although I never really chopped that many of them). St Petes (2520bc) went NW to get cows, rice, and bananas. Novgorod (1800bc) went NE to get gems, cows, and rice.
Teching> AH>Writing>Myst>Alpha. At this point I started trading, in 1280bc I garnered BW, Poly, Fish, Wheel, Masonry, and Archery. In 1200bc I got Pottery and AG and I still had a monopoly on Alphabet as late as 1000bc while researching Priesthood!!! Also, Rostov (1360bc) was founded south on the plainshill to work the sheep and horses, but mostly to create a southern barrier. By 1000bc I had met all of the rivals except Toku. Asoka had founded Buddhism, and Mao founded Judaism, let the friction begin!
1AD! I have captured a barb city by the Iron in the N with Chariots. I have gotten 2 GS's, built Academy in Moscow and settled the other in Moscow also. Toku had been found, and he had founded Hinduism, Nappy founded Confucianism, Kahn founded Christianity, and as of now, no religions had spread to Russian lands. I have discovered Priesthood, Literature, and Sailing, and am working on Metalcasting. I have built exactly 0 wonders, but am working on the Great Library! I have a monopoly on Lit. with 5 turns to go so I think I got it!
You'll notice I have made no mention of VC at this point. This level is above my normal level of play, so I'm kind of winging it at this point! Last but not least, I'm dead last in score, power, and all other charts with the exception of MFG goods where I'm tied for 4th!
500ad! Mao has founded Taoism (350ad) and I'm 2 turns from Philo. I have learned MC, Currency + Calendar(trade I believe), CoL, Const, and Monarchy. I have at least 1 tech up on all of the AI's except Mao, but no one is willing to trade, so sad. I still have only 5 cities, and I just got my 3rd GS, wonder what I did with him? I think I was heading for Liberalism, not sure if I have an intermediate save. Nappy is annoyed with me for refusing his demands, what else is new, Diplomacy is definitely not my strong suit! He will be my first adversary, because he attacks me IIRC! There have been NO WARS as of 500ad, and only Fred and Asoka have + relations from sharing a religion.
840ad! I'm at WAR with Nappy! He DoW in 640ad. I missed the Hanging Gardens by a few turns. I have 3 GS's settled in Moscow. I have discovered Philo, Civil Service (1st) (but no revolt yet), Compass + HBR (Elephants) by trade I believe. I'm researching Paper.
900ad! Troubled times! I'm researching at 10% sustainable, not good, have been fighting Nappy for ~260 years with mixed results, but still have the Great Library to hang my hat in! I'm NEXT TO LAST in Score and Culture (Toku is getting hammered by Mao), last in all other categories EXCEPT MFG Goods, where I'm now 3rd behind Kahn and Mao!
1565ad! I must have played a really long session because the world looks very different now! I own Paris (Pyramids and Chichen Itza) built Hermitage and Forbidden Palace there, and 3 other French cities in between there and Moscow. I built Ankor Wat and Taj Majal in St. Petes and am now teching at about 70% sustainable.
From here it gets kind of tedious. I finally finish off Nappy after he DoW's me again. I then realize I need the oil SE of Paris. Mao put a city there long ago, so I DoW Mao to take his city there. I was going to try for a space win, but Asoka, Mao, and Kahn were all ahead of me. Mao had taken out Toku while I was fighting Nappy and was very strong. IIRC, I used the strong friendship of Asoka and Fred to keep Kahn and Mao occupied. At some point I DoW on Kahn and take him out. While I am hammering Kahn, Mao is taking the last of Freds cities, poor Fred got caught in the middle and Asoka bailed on him! Mao has many tanks and planes, so I have to wait until I get the same, by then he has Mech Inf but I get Asoka to wear him down a little so I can stick the knife in his back!
NUKES! Mao nuked Asoka 4-5 times, he also nuked Moscow and Paris, I couldn't even clean up the mess (no Ecology). In the end there were only Asoka and me left. Asoka still needed 3 spaceship parts in the end. Like I said in the beginning, it was ugly, and it was late, but it was a win for Russia in the end!
Teching> AH>Writing>Myst>Alpha. At this point I started trading, in 1280bc I garnered BW, Poly, Fish, Wheel, Masonry, and Archery. In 1200bc I got Pottery and AG and I still had a monopoly on Alphabet as late as 1000bc while researching Priesthood!!! Also, Rostov (1360bc) was founded south on the plainshill to work the sheep and horses, but mostly to create a southern barrier. By 1000bc I had met all of the rivals except Toku. Asoka had founded Buddhism, and Mao founded Judaism, let the friction begin!
1AD! I have captured a barb city by the Iron in the N with Chariots. I have gotten 2 GS's, built Academy in Moscow and settled the other in Moscow also. Toku had been found, and he had founded Hinduism, Nappy founded Confucianism, Kahn founded Christianity, and as of now, no religions had spread to Russian lands. I have discovered Priesthood, Literature, and Sailing, and am working on Metalcasting. I have built exactly 0 wonders, but am working on the Great Library! I have a monopoly on Lit. with 5 turns to go so I think I got it!
You'll notice I have made no mention of VC at this point. This level is above my normal level of play, so I'm kind of winging it at this point! Last but not least, I'm dead last in score, power, and all other charts with the exception of MFG goods where I'm tied for 4th!
500ad! Mao has founded Taoism (350ad) and I'm 2 turns from Philo. I have learned MC, Currency + Calendar(trade I believe), CoL, Const, and Monarchy. I have at least 1 tech up on all of the AI's except Mao, but no one is willing to trade, so sad. I still have only 5 cities, and I just got my 3rd GS, wonder what I did with him? I think I was heading for Liberalism, not sure if I have an intermediate save. Nappy is annoyed with me for refusing his demands, what else is new, Diplomacy is definitely not my strong suit! He will be my first adversary, because he attacks me IIRC! There have been NO WARS as of 500ad, and only Fred and Asoka have + relations from sharing a religion.
840ad! I'm at WAR with Nappy! He DoW in 640ad. I missed the Hanging Gardens by a few turns. I have 3 GS's settled in Moscow. I have discovered Philo, Civil Service (1st) (but no revolt yet), Compass + HBR (Elephants) by trade I believe. I'm researching Paper.
900ad! Troubled times! I'm researching at 10% sustainable, not good, have been fighting Nappy for ~260 years with mixed results, but still have the Great Library to hang my hat in! I'm NEXT TO LAST in Score and Culture (Toku is getting hammered by Mao), last in all other categories EXCEPT MFG Goods, where I'm now 3rd behind Kahn and Mao!
1565ad! I must have played a really long session because the world looks very different now! I own Paris (Pyramids and Chichen Itza) built Hermitage and Forbidden Palace there, and 3 other French cities in between there and Moscow. I built Ankor Wat and Taj Majal in St. Petes and am now teching at about 70% sustainable.
From here it gets kind of tedious. I finally finish off Nappy after he DoW's me again. I then realize I need the oil SE of Paris. Mao put a city there long ago, so I DoW Mao to take his city there. I was going to try for a space win, but Asoka, Mao, and Kahn were all ahead of me. Mao had taken out Toku while I was fighting Nappy and was very strong. IIRC, I used the strong friendship of Asoka and Fred to keep Kahn and Mao occupied. At some point I DoW on Kahn and take him out. While I am hammering Kahn, Mao is taking the last of Freds cities, poor Fred got caught in the middle and Asoka bailed on him! Mao has many tanks and planes, so I have to wait until I get the same, by then he has Mech Inf but I get Asoka to wear him down a little so I can stick the knife in his back!
NUKES! Mao nuked Asoka 4-5 times, he also nuked Moscow and Paris, I couldn't even clean up the mess (no Ecology). In the end there were only Asoka and me left. Asoka still needed 3 spaceship parts in the end. Like I said in the beginning, it was ugly, and it was late, but it was a win for Russia in the end!
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
You folks who won this game, even if you won ugly or slow, I bow to your greatness.
Okay, I don't qualify for the "greatness" or "
", but I did win both ugly and slow (domination, 1936), so...Immortal is a reach for me. I've won twice before in GOTM going culture (one was the easy setup from about a year ago). This was my first domination victory on immortal. Here is the best advice I can give -- feel free to consume it or reject it as you will. (Also, I can't take credit for any of these ideas, as I've stolen them from many different sources here in these forums -- too many to remember or I'd give the real originators their proper credit. I will endorse them all as things that have seemed to work reasonably well for me in my own games as I've learned to survive a little better at immortal level.)
The most important key to staying in the game at Immortal, at least for me, seems to be keeping up in the technology race. The only way I've found to do that is to stay focused on a game plan that emphasizes: (1) getting to Alphabet first, (2) meeting as many AIs as possible as early as possible -- preferably before getting alphabet, (3) trading technology widely, actively, and effectively, (4) getting a very early Library, Great Scientist, & Academy in the capital to power your research past Alphabet, (5) researching technologies past Alphabet that the AI normally does not prioritize so you will have something to trade with them and (6) making wise diplomatic choices by keeping the civilized AI leaders friendly through tech trading (among other things) and preempting the ones who are likely to stab you in the back if you don't take them out -- or at least clip their wings -- first.
(1) Getting to Alphabet First
Beeline alphabet. Okay, you can have one extra worker tech that is not on the path, but that's all -- unless you want to risk having far fewer early trading options. Ideally, you want to get to Alphabet before most of your opponents even have Writing. That way, on the first turn after Alpha, you might be able to trade Writing to AI-1 for, say, Masonry, and to AI-2 for, say Sailing. On the second turn after alpha, you may then be able to get Bronze Working (which will not normally trade for just writing) from AI-3 for something like Writing and Sailing. In this way, you achieve an early tech parity with the Immortal AIs, and you're still ahead of them (for a little while) by Alphabet. If you get this far, save Alphabet to trade in combination with other lower techs for things like Iron Working and/or Mathematics.
(2) Meeting As Many AIs as Possible
In order to make the trading work right it is imperative that you meet the other civs in the game as quickly as possible. Sending a warrior or explorer as far away as possible (and keeping him alive) is critically important. Never mind the value of the units, you NEED to meet the other leaders so you can trade with them -- fast. And don't hang around next to your city either. Nearby civs will find you quickly enough. You need to find the distant ones who will be cut-off by the borders of other civs if you wait too long. On water maps, build an early work boat for exploring far and wide before the coastal sea lanes get cut off. Then, once you've got writing, get open borders and keep going!
(3) Trading Technology Widely, Actively, & Effectively
Hoarding technology at Immortal level just doesn't work -- at least, not for long with techs that come before about Liberalism. You can hang on to Alphabet for a little while, but not much else. You must trade what you get pretty quickly and pretty widely just to keep up. Trade as smart as you can though. First get techs that other AIs need too so you can flip those trades to them and make your first tech go even farther. Focus your own research on techs that the AI tends not to prioritize -- even (sometimes) if you don't need them. You can get what you really need by trading that tech and flipping the first techs you get for it to others. Besides Alphabet, some of the techs that seem to trade well are Literature, Philosophy, and Paper. On the other hand, the AI leaders will almost always research techs like Iron Working, Mathematics, Currency, and Monarchy themselves. Unless you have some special reason to get one of those techs very fast, why waste your research efforts on them when you can trade for them instead and at the same time stay at the leading edge of the technology race?
(4) Early Library, Great Scientist, & Academy
I've found that building a Library as soon as I get writing and immediately employing two scientists gives a huge and lasting boost in the technology race. It is not so much the extra 25% science from the library (although that helps). It is getting the earliest possible Great Scientist and extra 50% science boost his Academy will bring that makes the real difference. Also, it is a "difference" that keeps on paying if you've built the academy in your capital, because there will be another 50% science increase once you can switch to bureaucracy. The hard part is forcing yourself to build that library right away as soon as you get writing, because there are a hundred other things you *think* you need right away too (...like wonders? forget 'em -- except for very special cases where you KNOW you need one in particular and you know EXACTLY why you need it).
(5) Technologies Past Alphabet
Oops, I already covered this under #3. Basically, don't research techs you know the AI will prioritize anyway. Research the ones you know the AI tends not to research first. Also, getting to Liberalism first is not only possible, but I'd say even probable in most decent set-ups even for a putz like me. Prioritize the Civil Service-Paper-Education route to Liberalism. You are allowed both to research Civil Service yourself and to hoard it for a while too. It is an exception to the basic rule-of-thumb outlined above. Paper and Philosophy can be used as trade fodder once you've got a decent head start. Go ahead and burn a Great Scientist on lightbulbing education if you feel one of the other AI is keeping up too closely. After Liberalism you CAN sometimes get away with hoarding a tech. This is advisable if, for example, you'd like to overrun one of your neighbors with Cossacks while they are stuck with only longbows or muskets on defense. Don't help them upgrade by trading the tech they need to anyone else (except maybe your war ally against them).
(6) Making Wise Diplomatic Choices
This is a tough one to explain, but I've learned the hard way that there are some AI leaders who will never issue a surprise DOW against you if you can keep them at "Friendly" or even "Pleased" in the diplomacy screen, while there are others who would be happy to puff on the peace pipe with you even after they've already got it stuffed halfway up your nether regions. Trying to keep this kind of AI leader happy is always a gamble because you can never be certain they won't attack you. Since even cultural games often necessitate taking out one neighbor, I've found that it is often best to target one of these unreliable, aggressive leaders first and either take them out or hobble them enough so they will not be a serious military threat moving forward. If I'm not going cultural or diplomatic, then I like to target the best researchers (who are often militarily fairly weak) in the middle game and move last against the remaining strong targets (who can often be kept happy with you in the meantime by bribing them into the wars you've got going against those research fiends). If I am going cultural or diplomatic, then a good defense pact (or three) can be even better than having a standing army.
=================
Okay, now my GOTM 31:
Contender Save.
Founded Moscow 1N of start on the plains hill.
Early Build Order: Worker, Warrior, partial Warrior, Settler, finish Warrior, Library...
Teched Animal Husbandry, Writing, The Wheel, Masonry, Alphabet (on turn 58 - 1680BC) and then traded for Bronze Working (from Asoka for writing and wheel), Archery, and Mysticism (both from Napoleon for writing). The next turn I got Polytheism for writing from Kublai Khan. Then on turn 61 I got Fishing & Agriculture for writing (from Mao). Napoleon gave me Pottery for Polytheism on turn 64 (1440 BC). I held onto Alphabet until turn 83 (800 BC) when I also finished researching Code of Laws, and then traded Alphabet to Frederick for Iron Working and Meditation, and then got Mathematics and Sailing from Fred again for Polytheism and Code of Laws (turn 86, 725 BC). Somewhere in there I also decided to get horseback riding fairly early because of promotion & upgrade possibilities to Russia's unique unit. Civil Service finished on turn 113 (50 BC). First to Liberalism on turn 177 (1170 AD). On turn 201 (1410 AD) I was informed that Peter was "the most advanced" civ.
In the meantime, I declared war on Napoleon (one of those unpredictable, crazy AI) sometime in the late BC or early AD and managed to take Orleans (encroaching near the SW gold & ivory) and Paris, getting peace on turn 124 (225 AD) for Calendar.
My first plan had been to go cultural using the old Godonut stone/pyramids strategy, but despite actually getting the Pyramids that plan was always kind of half-hearted. When Asoka attacked (Asoka??!) and actually took one of my core cities, I decided not to risk losing another immortal game like WOTM 17, where I got beaten under similar circumstances while trying to go cultural. I bribed Asoka for peace, waited some turns to build an advanced army of Cossacks, and then trounced him. Next down was Frederick, who suffered from not having Cossacks or cannons. By the time I got to Tokugawa it was 1865 and my cossacks were no longer effective, so after a poor start I bribed Mao into the fight -- both to distract Toku and to break Mao's Defensive Pact with Kublai (who was a bit backward, like Toku). I also bribed Napoleon to attack Kublai, mostly to keep that French madman busy but it also ended up weakening Kublai tremendously (I gave Napi Assembly Line/Infantry with which to beat Kublai over the head). When I got tanks Toku went down easily and Kublai turned into a cakewalk. (Never got to use tanks in a GOTM before... Man, they are effective -- Once I realized there are no no anti-tank infantry units in Vanilla I didn't even have to be very careful with them.) By the time Kublai went down Mao was ahead of me on tech and would have been a hard target, so I got to be the one to stick the knife in Napoleon's back for a change, and took the territory I needed for a domination victory from him. 1936 isn't a pretty date, but I'll take it.
Jimmy Thunder
King
Thanks Balthalion, those immortal tips provide some good advice!
I got a cultural victory around 1755AD. I suspect it won't be close to the fastest date, since I remember making heaps of mistakes... although I can't actually remember the specifics of the game too clearly.
One major achievement was that I didn't get into any wars the entire game! Oh, and I think I ended up flipping at least 5 cities.
I got a cultural victory around 1755AD. I suspect it won't be close to the fastest date, since I remember making heaps of mistakes... although I can't actually remember the specifics of the game too clearly.
One major achievement was that I didn't get into any wars the entire game! Oh, and I think I ended up flipping at least 5 cities.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Ha! Cultural in 1755 sounds VERY impressive to me. How did you keep Napoleon off your back? I remember chickening out on the culture approach primarily because of Napoleon being so close. Even after I took Paris and Orleans away from him I was afraid as soon as I would let my military guard down to pursue culture he'd be all over me. I also remember Napoleon being a big problem for some back in GOTM 28. What did you do to keep him happy?
1755AD sounds a lot better than 1876AD, that's for sure
Balathalion: Kinda funny with Nappy, Kublai and Toku right next door, you get attacked by Asoka
Also.. nice strategy writeup. That kind of effort is gonna make a lot of ppl happy
Kcd_Swede: I don't really deserve the or the "greatness" part, but I'm happy I actually managed to sneak out a win, so thanks
What *I* did, I think, was to never let him have open borders for starters. I also tried hard to have him have other more annoying targets to take care of. (As stated above I also switched to his religion near the end, hoping it would keep him off me for that much longer). Also, as you noted above, get DP(s) and ride it out.... hopefully. But then again, I don't have that much experience playing with next-door Nappy on a cultural win. He just didn't cause any problems for me this game at all.
Balathalion: Kinda funny with Nappy, Kublai and Toku right next door, you get attacked by Asoka
Also.. nice strategy writeup. That kind of effort is gonna make a lot of ppl happy Kcd_Swede: I don't really deserve the
or the "greatness" part, but I'm happy I actually managed to sneak out a win, so thanks
Yes, thanks Bathalion for the excellent strategy write-up. You might think it strange, but most of those tips I have heard before in various different places, but this is the first time I've seen it all put together so you can see how it all flows in gameplay, with enough detail to make it useful for inexperienced players to follow. (It gets frustrating having someone tell you to go for the techs with good trade value that the AI don't prioritize and not give you any examples of what techs those might be). And having your own GOTM game write-up for illustration is worth
or even 
Thx!
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
No kidding!Kinda funny with Nappy, Kublai and Toku right next door, you get attacked by Asoka
Obviously I need to do a better job of following my own advice about keeping the civilized AIs happy.Hey, 1876 cultural is nothing to sneeze at either. Congrats on your victory Bugg, and thanks for the explanation about Napoleon. Closed borders, eh? I've advocated that before too... Maybe I'm just paranoid about that guy...
I'll take the...having your own GOTM game write-up for illustration is worth
. Let me know the next time you pass through Tucson. damnrunner
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 2,004
France settled a city by the gold, elephants, floodplains to the west and promptly build stonehenge. I figured with my nearby horese I might as well take it and hobble the blood crazy Napoleon early on. My 1st attack on the city with 5 chariots (vs 2 archers+1 chariot) failed. I was able to take it a few turns later after upgrading to horse archers. France however refused to make peace which diverted a lot of resources from science and infrastructure.
Japan beat me to alpha but since Toko doesn't trade anyway it didn't matter. Tech trading was very effective as most civs also did not have Horse back riding. A few turns later I bulbed Theology with a GP which also netted lots of good trades. I traded one of these to France for peace.
Germany and India were tech leaders and were buddies. The other main alliance was between Mongolia and China who were not as advanced but had a larger military. Mongolia had the largest population. Frederic had the largest territory.
Japan was a standoffish from everyone and had the largest military. They were advanced but in my experience Japan always falls behind in mid game due to lack of open borders.
France and I were at the bottom for Tech though France had a much larger military.
I decided UN was my best path and sought to make good relations with Mongolia and China. Monarchy would guarantee good relations with the Mongols and later on Communism could do the same with China. In oder to ensure that Germany was my voting rival, I had to make sure that they grew to a larger population than Mongolia. My plan was to take out India and let Germany expand into a lot of their land. I also hoped to start a war between Japan and Germany so that Germany could take Japaneses cities as well.
I began researching to Cossacks as I prepared to attack India. In the mean time I managed great relations with France - who being at tech parity - was very useful to tech trading. The good relations really paid off later as he was useful as an attack dog. My initial attack on India went well but then things got fowled up. I don't exactly remember how it happened but I helped get Germany involved in a war with Japan which I assumed superior German military, production, and technology would dominate. Not so. The hordes of less advanced Japaneses troops too several German cities. Well this was not all bad as I could still run against Japan. Eventually the Mongols and China ganged up on Germany and killed her off. Since the Mongols also grabbed several German cities they were still the pop leader when I built the UN. I tried to get Japan over the top by gifting them some cities and starting a war between Japan and China - figuring that once again the much more powerful Japanese would overrun the Chinese. Of course the exact opposite happened and Japan was crushed.
By this time the Mongols had voted to do away with the civics that gave me bonus ratings. I lost to a spaceship as I tried to engineer conflict between China and Mongolia to to avail.
Japan beat me to alpha but since Toko doesn't trade anyway it didn't matter. Tech trading was very effective as most civs also did not have Horse back riding. A few turns later I bulbed Theology with a GP which also netted lots of good trades. I traded one of these to France for peace.
Germany and India were tech leaders and were buddies. The other main alliance was between Mongolia and China who were not as advanced but had a larger military. Mongolia had the largest population. Frederic had the largest territory.
Japan was a standoffish from everyone and had the largest military. They were advanced but in my experience Japan always falls behind in mid game due to lack of open borders.
France and I were at the bottom for Tech though France had a much larger military.
I decided UN was my best path and sought to make good relations with Mongolia and China. Monarchy would guarantee good relations with the Mongols and later on Communism could do the same with China. In oder to ensure that Germany was my voting rival, I had to make sure that they grew to a larger population than Mongolia. My plan was to take out India and let Germany expand into a lot of their land. I also hoped to start a war between Japan and Germany so that Germany could take Japaneses cities as well.
I began researching to Cossacks as I prepared to attack India. In the mean time I managed great relations with France - who being at tech parity - was very useful to tech trading. The good relations really paid off later as he was useful as an attack dog. My initial attack on India went well but then things got fowled up. I don't exactly remember how it happened but I helped get Germany involved in a war with Japan which I assumed superior German military, production, and technology would dominate. Not so. The hordes of less advanced Japaneses troops too several German cities. Well this was not all bad as I could still run against Japan. Eventually the Mongols and China ganged up on Germany and killed her off. Since the Mongols also grabbed several German cities they were still the pop leader when I built the UN. I tried to get Japan over the top by gifting them some cities and starting a war between Japan and China - figuring that once again the much more powerful Japanese would overrun the Chinese. Of course the exact opposite happened and Japan was crushed.
By this time the Mongols had voted to do away with the civics that gave me bonus ratings. I lost to a spaceship as I tried to engineer conflict between China and Mongolia to to avail.
This was my first ever GOTM entry, my first complete CIV4 game in quite a while, and more importantly, my first Immortal victory!
The game started very slowly, founded Moscow 1S of the starting spot (looks like I was the only one to start there), and founded 2 other decent cities, but then run out of room for a decent 4th one, being surrounded by the French, Mongls and Indians.
Went straight for Alpha, which let me keep up with the other civs through tech trading, and after that I managed to be the first to Taoism, and also Confusism (the latter through a great scientist, which, looking back, may have been better spent on an early academy). Importantly, both of these had holy cities in the same city, which, a market, grocer, bank and wall street improvement later, let me run 100% science for the majority of the game.
Also managed to build Angkor Wat, Chicken Itza and Notre Dame early, not because I particularly like those wonders, but because I was the first to those techs and didn't have much else to build, but shortly after 500AD I had Kublai attack me with a hoard of horse archers and later knights!
As my army was older and smaller, I check with every other if they would help me. Asoka and Frederick agreed, although it cost me all of the techs I was holding back. As it turned out I never saw Frederick's help, and Asoka's was minimal. Kublai's first few turns were spent pillaging my landscape, which allowed me to pump out a heap of longbowmen and war elephants (as I had no access to iron OR copper!), and after quite a few turns of defending grimly, and having most of my northern landscape pillaged, I saw that he was ready for peace, and made my move, attacking his closest city (with only 2 longbowmen) with everything I had, just managed to take it, and then declared peace before he could get it back.
Just after that, as I started re-improving my landscape, Napoleon then declares war on me with Knights and musketmen! Again I ask around for help, Asoka is again ready to help me (this time with a decent amount of Knights), but that was it.
This time Asoka did help out, softening up Chartes, which I captured. The Indians also lost a couple of cities (mine were never really under threat), and, for the first time ever, when I re-captured an Indian city from the french, I saw the option 'give this back to the Indians'. Given it was a junk city, I did give it back, hoping for a big boost in relations, but nothing! Anyway, again, as soon as the French were ready for peace, I made one last move and managed to capture Orleans, the Christian holy city and home of great lighthouse. I now had 3 holy cities!
After that I focused more on improving civ relations, and stayed pleased or better with the rest for most of it.
Pretty much the rest of the game was spent in war, but I managed to stay out of it. The French and German attacked the Indians (they did ask for my help but I just couldn't afford to help... I did feel bad!), and the French eventually destroyed the Indians. Around that time The Chinese savaged the Japanese, taking a lot of their land, then declared war on the leading German. They traded cities for a while, but when the Mongols also declared was on the Germans they were eventually wiped out. Later, the Mongols and Chinese decalred was on the French (yay!), and also wiped them out. In the meantime I managed to culture flip 3 of the captured cities, and brought my total up to 9 cities.
With me minding my own business I was the first to complete the Apollo project, and had a 3 part spaceship lead on China, however by the mid 1970's the Chinese had caught up and were only 1 part behind me. I managed to complete the space elevator, but still not safe, I gambled and used a spy in one of their cities when one of their parts was near completion, and got away with it!
As it worked out, I got the spaceship victory in 1987, with China 10 turns away from their last part, and 5 turns away from the UN (and with their alliance with Kublai, they were a good chance to take out the diplomatic victory).
As many have said, my main key was getting alpha well before everyone else, and also keeping good relations (and maybe provoking a bit of war between other civs...).
Bring on Deity!
The game started very slowly, founded Moscow 1S of the starting spot (looks like I was the only one to start there), and founded 2 other decent cities, but then run out of room for a decent 4th one, being surrounded by the French, Mongls and Indians.
Went straight for Alpha, which let me keep up with the other civs through tech trading, and after that I managed to be the first to Taoism, and also Confusism (the latter through a great scientist, which, looking back, may have been better spent on an early academy). Importantly, both of these had holy cities in the same city, which, a market, grocer, bank and wall street improvement later, let me run 100% science for the majority of the game.
Also managed to build Angkor Wat, Chicken Itza and Notre Dame early, not because I particularly like those wonders, but because I was the first to those techs and didn't have much else to build, but shortly after 500AD I had Kublai attack me with a hoard of horse archers and later knights!
As my army was older and smaller, I check with every other if they would help me. Asoka and Frederick agreed, although it cost me all of the techs I was holding back. As it turned out I never saw Frederick's help, and Asoka's was minimal. Kublai's first few turns were spent pillaging my landscape, which allowed me to pump out a heap of longbowmen and war elephants (as I had no access to iron OR copper!), and after quite a few turns of defending grimly, and having most of my northern landscape pillaged, I saw that he was ready for peace, and made my move, attacking his closest city (with only 2 longbowmen) with everything I had, just managed to take it, and then declared peace before he could get it back.
Just after that, as I started re-improving my landscape, Napoleon then declares war on me with Knights and musketmen! Again I ask around for help, Asoka is again ready to help me (this time with a decent amount of Knights), but that was it.
This time Asoka did help out, softening up Chartes, which I captured. The Indians also lost a couple of cities (mine were never really under threat), and, for the first time ever, when I re-captured an Indian city from the french, I saw the option 'give this back to the Indians'. Given it was a junk city, I did give it back, hoping for a big boost in relations, but nothing! Anyway, again, as soon as the French were ready for peace, I made one last move and managed to capture Orleans, the Christian holy city and home of great lighthouse. I now had 3 holy cities!
After that I focused more on improving civ relations, and stayed pleased or better with the rest for most of it.
Pretty much the rest of the game was spent in war, but I managed to stay out of it. The French and German attacked the Indians (they did ask for my help but I just couldn't afford to help... I did feel bad!), and the French eventually destroyed the Indians. Around that time The Chinese savaged the Japanese, taking a lot of their land, then declared war on the leading German. They traded cities for a while, but when the Mongols also declared was on the Germans they were eventually wiped out. Later, the Mongols and Chinese decalred was on the French (yay!), and also wiped them out. In the meantime I managed to culture flip 3 of the captured cities, and brought my total up to 9 cities.
With me minding my own business I was the first to complete the Apollo project, and had a 3 part spaceship lead on China, however by the mid 1970's the Chinese had caught up and were only 1 part behind me. I managed to complete the space elevator, but still not safe, I gambled and used a spy in one of their cities when one of their parts was near completion, and got away with it!
As it worked out, I got the spaceship victory in 1987, with China 10 turns away from their last part, and 5 turns away from the UN (and with their alliance with Kublai, they were a good chance to take out the diplomatic victory).
As many have said, my main key was getting alpha well before everyone else, and also keeping good relations (and maybe provoking a bit of war between other civs...).
Bring on Deity!
Too bad i haven't time for this one. I just start it - i took Nappy city with charriots. Meanwhile i REX agressivly . I settled Moscow in a desert tilenex to the gold(a very good spot), i settled my second city near the gems in the east, third city near the start location with the sheep, floodplains and stone in the FK(a very good production city) and i was building next settler for a city in the north jungle. Well the game looks very promising but...
Congrats to all the winners
Congrats to all the winners
Jimmy Thunder
King
hellwitch, it's a shame you didn't finish since I know you would have put together an impressive game judging by your recent gotm scores and successes!
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