GOTM 40: First Spoiler

[PoorAxl]

I have started from predator save this time, because with regent difficulty I should be able to win somehow. I do not decide for the win type, but as usual, I concentrate on building as many cities as possible as soon as possible.

Main events during QSC period:

Techs:
3300BC Pottery
1625BC Writing
1275BC MapMaking
1050BC Literature

Cities:
3950BC Athens
2670BC Sparta
2430BC Thermopylae
1990BC Corinth
1700BC Delphi
1625BC Pharsalos
1375BC Knossos
1175BC Argos

QSC statistics:
8 towns
19 citizens
2 Granary
1 Library
4 workers
7 warriors (1 elite)
2 galleys
2 hoplites
no contacts
no wonders (9 turns to finish The Great Lighthouse)

QSC score: 2468 from Mapstat

After 1000BC I have started to found towns on nearby islands, build more galleys for suicide missions and build Libraries for faster research.
After building the Great Lighthouse in Athens I sent few Galleys in different directions. Only 1 out of 5 made it and contacted Roman empire in 550BC. There was no sense in trading anything with them that time, so this galley started the route around the world and finally in 30BC I have had the contacts with all civs and the last trade was made to finish AA - currency from Persians.

At the end I decided to go for 100K victory (may be I will not change it ;-)). As I did not start a lot of cultural buildings in the beginning, it will probably not be early finish. Cultural rating at 30BC is ~800.

Here is my 1000BC map:

 

[Smirk]

Nothing very exciting, playing predator again. Thought about doing 20k, decided against it. Will either dominate or conquer.


My basic idea was to get Map Making, and get the Lighthouse ASAP, then skip my typical approach with Literature and just go right for Republic. My reasoning was since I will be cranking out the galleys and settlers for those galleys, and of course the units to support them I wouldn't have time to spend building libraries. Also of course I planned to abandon what immediately looked like too small a island for a respectable civilization.

All of that was true. All my early resources were galleys, and settlers. I took a beating with those barbarians, my numbers must be off because their attacks were far more successful that I expected. I was expecting perhaps 10% chance of them winning, but I lost quite a few galleys in the QSC period and a more later (I estimate 50% loss, with conscript barbs versus my regulars), and in most other battles I redlined. One galley, starting regular and becoming elite, got redlined 3 times in one interturn.

Also there is one thing more painful than reaching sight of land and then sinking with your suicide galley, that is reaching land and then getting wasted by a conscript barbarian galley. :/

Once I got contact I worked to get maps and caught up on techs, most important among them being Iron and Horses. I expected the resources would be hard to reach and or otherwise problematic. (Not sure what else I can say there.) Since I spent much of my early producion on galleys and such I didn't build up a force of warriors so will not likely use any swordsman. Plus thats generally pretty difficult on a map like this. So knights it is, more on that in the next thread.



My QSC stats:
1 city, 7 towns with 19 citizens
1 settler, 1 worker, 4 warriors (regular), 3 galleys (1 regular, 1 veteran, 1 elite)
2 granaries, and the Great Lighthouse
missing required techs Poly, Currency and Construction, and all 3 optionals


The city was where I was building the Lighthouse (I joined workers to get the lighthouse ASAP, I needed slider to keep it happy, but this worked out okay since I then didn't need to waste time building a lot of MP warriors) and will continue with some wonders, note I left my capital empty so I won't lose anything when I abandon it.

I built pretty tightly, of course no full rings, but my distances were 2-4-6 initially. Beyond that it was just a question of territory coverage.

I'm pretty happy with it so far, but was quite annoyed with Xerxes who seemed to have my number thru out the AA on research choices.


Map of the starting land at 1000BC is attached.

 

[CKS]

Open PTW 20K

Well, sloppy play during the AA set me up for a long game. I went ahead and built Athens NW of the start to use as my 20K city. I built warrior, temple, settler, and then started the colossus. Foolishly, though, I didn't start on mysticism but writing/mapmaking/literature. This meant that Athens had nothing to build after the colossus. I built a granary (possibly useful), a worker, a settler, and a hoplite. A barracks prebuild then got me to the great light house. I didn't switch to the GLibrary when I could have, but instead finished the GLH. Then I built a library, and disbanded my hoplite to hurry it. Unfortunately, I didn't realize I needed him as an MP. I missed out on the GL by about the number of turns it took me to build the library, and I had nothing to switch to, so I ended up with a really expensive harbor. If I'd paid attention to researching I probably would have had both the GL and either the Oracle or the Hanging Gardens. If I'd just merged in a couple of extra workers I wouldn't have lost the GL. In any case, it was my own fault, and I knew better. "Plan ahead" should be my watchword.

I finally met other civs in 270 AD. I spent too much time wandering around looking for a safe route and not enough exploring boldly. This could have prevented the catastrophe that my horrible research plan brought me to. I learn monarchy shortly after meeting several AI, and I manage to trade myself into the MA in 360. Overall, the AA was a disaster. Luckily the regent AI didn't leave me totally in the dust, as they probably should have.

 

[Megalou]

Tough luck CKS. I recognize all the mistakes, if it's any consolation.

 

[Abegweit]

Also of course I planned to abandon what immediately looked like too small a island for a respectable civilization.

It occurs to me that this looks like a good map for a Palace Jump, followed by an FP followed immediately by a second Palace Jump. I don't see why this would be exploitive. It would be an excellent tactic for any of the late builder goals: Spaceship, Histograph or 100K.

 

[Denniz]

It occurs to me that this looks like a good map for a Palace Jump, followed by an FP followed immediately by a second Palace Jump. I don't see why this would be exploitive. It would be an excellent tactic for any of the late builder goals: Spaceship, Histograph or 100K.

The jump itself is not explotive. It is how you do it with regards to the corruption bug. Jumping the palace to a place without any nearby cities belonging to your civ is the exploit. Read this link for details.

 

[Smirk]

It occurs to me that this looks like a good map for a Palace Jump, followed by an FP followed immediately by a second Palace Jump. I don't see why this would be exploitive. It would be an excellent tactic for any of the late builder goals: Spaceship, Histograph or 100K.

Its only an expliot, when it is in fact an exploit I surmise. If you have only a single city alone with your palace, then you are exploiting reduced corruption at your old core with the FP. However, while I agree with your first assesment that is beyond this scope of this thread. Also I had no intention of leaving behind a FP on the starting island, thus there is no reduced corruption and thus no exploit. That is, as I said, I abandoned that lil island. Its a theme park now. heh

 

[Paul#42]

Open game.
QSC Summary
Cities
3950 BC Athens
2590 BC Sparta
2230 BC Thermopylae
1830 BC Corinth

Research
3300 BC Pottery
2070 BC Writing
1450 BC Map Making
1150 BC Literature
1025 BC Philosophie

Wonder
1300 BC Colossus

Greeks at 1000 BC:
4cities 5,4,3,2. 1 Settler, 4 Workers, 5 Warriors, 1 Galley.
Colossus, 1 granary, 2 harbors, 1 library.
No contacts. 8 gold. 103 Points. Culture 198.


Detailed
4000 BC Settler NW. Worker1 mine BG.
3950 BC Found Athens. Research Pottery at 100%. mm tile grass near river.
3900 BC mm bg. zzz
3850 BC zzz
3800 BC zzz
3750 BC zzz
3700 BC Warrior1 built, N. Athens builds barracks (granary prebuild). Worker1 road.
3650 BC Warrior1 N.
3600 BC Warrior1 N.
3550 BC Warrior1 N. Worker1 NE.
3500 BC Warrior1 W. Worker1 road BG.
3450 BC Warrior1 N.
3400 BC Warrior1 SE.
3350 BC Warrior1 E. worker1 mine.
3300 BC Warrior1 SE. Researched Pottery. Now Writing (100%).
3250 BC Warrior1 S.
3200 BC Warrior1 S.
3150 BC Warrior1 S.
3100 BC Warrior1 S. mm forrest 2 turns - wait for granary.

Feel prisoned. Mapmaking will be crucial. Think about ICS (Infinite City Sprawl)... At least placing cities close as never before.

3050 BC Warrior1 W-fortify. worker1 W-N

3000 BC worker1 W.

2950 BC Athens builds Granary. Now Settler. Warrior1 W, fortify in Athens. Worker1 mine BG.

2900 BC Research at 90%. Athens size 3.

2850 BC zzz

2800 BC zzz

2750 BC zzz

2700 BC zzz

2670 BC Settler built, N. Now Warrior2. worker1 road. Research 80%.

2630 BC Settler NW.

2590 BC Found Sparta on plain near river. Built Warrior2, N. Sparta starts Colussus.
Athens starts Warrior3.

2550 BC worker1 E. Warrior2 NW.

2510 BC Built warrior3, now settler. Warrior2 fortify in Sparta. Warrior3 fortify in Athens. Worker1 road.

2470 BC Research 90%. 11 turns to writing.

2430 BC zzz

2390 BC worker1 irrigate.

2350 BC zzz

2310 BC zzz

2270 BC Settler built. Now Warrior4. Settler W-NW.

2230 BC Found Thermopylae. Start Granary. Worker1 S.

2190 BC Warrior4 built, E-NE-fortify. Now Warrior5. Worker1 S.

2150 BC Worker1 road grass. Research 70%, Writing in 2.

2110 BC Warrior5 built, N. Now Settler.

2070 BC researched Writing. Now Mapmaking (90%, 23 turns). Warrior5 NW-N.

2030 BC Warrior5 N. Worker1 W.

1990 BC Warrior5 N. Worker1 mine BG.

1950 BC Warrior5 fortify.

1910 BC zzz

1870 BC Settler built, S-SW.
Athens starts settler. (What else?!?)

1830 BC Found Corinth. Start Worker2. mm fish.

1790 BC Sparta size 3. 5 spt, 26 turns to finish Colossus.

1750 BC Worker1 road BG.

1725 BC Warrior4 S. (Forgot to gaze to far away islands)

1700 BC Warrior4 NE. (One more tile explored...)

1675 BC Athens built settler, N. worker1 E-NE-N. warrior4 NW. Warrior3 N (MP for Sparta).
Athens now starts barracks (prebuild harbor).

1650 BC worker1 mine grass. Settler NW, pushes Sparta top size 5.
Warrior3 NW-fortify. Warrior4 fortify.
Luxury 10%. Science90%

1625 BC zzz

1600 BC zzz

1575 BC zzz

1550 BC Corinth built worker2, NE-N-NW. Now Granary (prebuild harbor).

1525 BC worker2 mine. Researching at 70%, 3 turns left. 10 turns to Colossus.

1500 BC worker1 road.

1475 BC Science 50%.

1450 BC Researched Map Making. science 1-8-1. Literature in 15.
Switched to harbors in Athens, Thermopylae. Switch to galey in Corinth.

1425 BC Worker1 S-SW-mine.

1400 BC Worker2 road. Warrior5 S. Time to add MP to Athens.

1375 BC Warrior5 S.

1350 BC Warrior5 S to Sparta. Warrior3 SE-S to Athens.

1325 BC Thermopylae built harbor. Now Worker3.
Warrior5, Warrior3 fortify.

1300 BC Sparta built Colossus! Now Harbor (library prebuild).
Worker2 N-NE.

1275 BC Worker1 NE-N-N. Worker2 irrigate.

1250 BC Athens built harbor. Now Settler.
Corinth built galley1, S-E-SE. Now harbor (library prebuild). Let's make contact!
Thermopylae built worker3, W-N. Worker1 chop forrest.

1225 BC Worker3 help chop forrest.
galley1 S-S-S.

1200 BC galley1 S-W-NW. All small islands Oh brothers, where art thou?

1175 BC worker2 road. Galley1 W-N-NW.

1150 BC Researched Literature. Now Philosophie (1.8.1 in 5 turns)
Switched to Sparta via big picture, changed to library, built imediatly. Now harbor.
Thermopylae builds worker4, SE. Starts library.
galley1 E-E-E.

We hope we finally meet somebody to trade with... (remember Cotm09...)

1125 BC worker4 chop forest. Galley1 N-N-NW. Want to ship a worker to the wine.

1100 BC galley1 N-E-E. 2 turns too early to pick up a worker...
worker1, worker3 road. Worker2 NW.

1075 BC One shield short of a settler, Athens[6] revolts
turned one citizen a scientist.
Worker2 road. Galley1 W-W-NE.

1050 BC Athens builds Settler, NE-N-NW. Starts library.
worker1 S-S-SE load on galley1. Worker3 irrigate. Galley1 E-S.

1025 BC Researched Philosophie. Now Code of Laws (1.8.1 in 8 turns).
Civil disorder in Corinth[3].
Galley1 unload Worker1 to West on wine, SE-E-NE.
Setler N.

1000 BC Worker1 mine wine ;o). Worker2 irrigate. Settler N.
Galley N-N-NE. Anybody out there?!?

QSC submitted, let's lower precision

950 BC Deplhi founded.

850 BC Pharsalos founded on wine island.

825 BC Researched Code of Laws. Now Republic in 23 turns (2.7.1)

630 BC Knossos founded. Argos founded on 2-tile-isle to east.

510 BC Mycenae founded on 2-tile-isle to West.

430 BC researched Republic. 3 turns anarchy.
Plebos Nexia founded on 2-tile-isle to south.

370 BC Republic installed. Research Masonry in 4 turns (5.3.2)

290 BC researched Masonry. Now Mathematics in 4 (3.5.2)

270 BC Herakleia founded on 2-tile-isle.

230 BC Qitaiodea founded on 2-tile-isle.

210 BC researched Mathmatics. Now Iron Working in 4 (6.3.1)

130 BC researched Iron Working. Now Construction in 5 (1.8.1)

30 BC researched Construction. Now Currency in 4 (2.7.1).
Galley #12 finally made it to an inhabited isle to the west...

10 AD Brempalonica founded on iron hill.

50 AD researched Currency. Now Ceremonial Burial in 4 (8.1.1)
Met Persians and Arabs. Both have no Literature, but I won't trade, because Sparta builds Great Library.

110 AD Traded Republic to Cartaghe for Ceremonial Burial, The Wheel, 60g, wm, rop, contact to rome.
Traded Republic to rome for HR, Myst, wm, rop, 81g.
Now researching widely known Polytheism in 4 (4.4.2). I Don't want to give Literature for it...

130 AD founded Ephesus on big island to east. Popped hut and got Polytheism

Reached Middel Ages, got free tech Feudalism.

 

[civ_steve]

1.27f

Finishing this game is still in doubt, but it's late Saturday night and I'm too tired to get many turns in, so I'll post a quick Spoiler1 entry instead.

Moved Settler to mouth of river, and founded Athens in 3950 BC. Worker started developing BG's. Research Pottery, quickly.

Built 2 Warriors, and became quite aware how small my island was. Started Settler as pre-build for Granary. Learned Pottery, and switched over to granary. Settlers after that, in general.

Sparta and Thermopylae built Granaries right away, although each one got the advantage of a Chopped Forest to aid them. So my first 3 cities each got a Granary, and I prepared to populate the world, or as much of it as I could reach.

Space is really at a premium. I set up an inner Ring at distance 2.x. I don't think I could fit any more cities at distance 3.x, and the 2.x distance cities don't experience Waste until the 4th shield; this means that my other 2 cities with Granaries get 3 shields/turn for all 10 turns needed to build a Settler. A second ring at distance 4.x was also set up; this included a few nearby islands and one site on my main landmass.

Knew Map-Making was crucial. After Pottery came Writing and Map-Making at Maximum research rate, learned in 1375 BC. Galleys started exploring and dropping Settlers off on islands. Literature was also researched, and Code-of-Laws started before the end of the QSC period.

At 1000 BC I had 11 Towns, 18 citizens, 3 Granaries, 1 Settler, 4 Workers, the 2 Warriors from earlier (MP duty as needed), 3 Galleys and no contacts. Here is my map:



From here, researched at Maximum towards Republic, researched in 410 BC, went to F1 via SMTBP and drew 6 turns (yuck), did the 2nd attempt and got 7 turns (double yuck!!!!) (How often does that happen?) Finally a Republic in 270 BC.

Prior to that, suicide Galleys made contact with foreign lands. One Galley contacted the Zulu in 730 BC; from them I could trade for one set of contacts. A 2nd Galley contacted the Persians in 610 BC, and I could trade for all the contacts I could reach through Persia.

I'd decided this would be a warmongering game. I kind of blew it by waiting as long as I did, but I started wars within both sets of contacts in the late BC's (90 and 30 BC IIRC). I was trying to slow down the research, let the AI get rid of their extra units, and soften up my potential targets.

Two of the AI beat me into the Middle Ages. I finally decided to trade for Currency and entered the AI in 90 AD. By that point I'd pretty much colonized all the islands available to me. That's all for now; hopefully more details of a successfully completed game will follow.

 

[SirPleb]

1.27 Predator

Goal: High score, probably via conquest or domination.

I began by moving my settler two steps north then settled Athens there. Athens built a granary first (2950BC) and then a settler (2630BC.)

I settled three towns after Athens, then switched to infrastructure. One town at ring 3 and two at ring 4 - RCP didn't seem a high priority vs. taking the best location I could for each town.

I learned Pottery in 3300BC and Writing in 1870BC. Next I decided to research Literature. Although Map Making was clearly important I went for Literature first for a couple of reasons: 1) I with libraries the cost of researching Map Making and the three techs for Republic would be much lower, 2) I'd run out of useful things to build. With no neighbors there was no point building a military. With little tech there were no useful improvements I could build. Literature would enable building something useful - libraries.

I also decided fairly early to build the Great Lighthouse. I seldom build this wonder but on this map it looked likely to be useful, and again it was something worthwhile to invest my shields in while there was little else to do with them.

I learned Literature in 1375BC and Map Making in 1025BC. I immediately started producing galleys at that point as well as some settlers to go to the nearby islands.

My status at 1000BC:
4 towns, population 18
1 settler
3 workers
1 granary, 3 libraries
8 warriors, 2 galleys
4 techs learned
8 turns until Great Lighthouse completes at current rate

I'm too late this month to submit my QSC so click here if you wish to download my timeline.

When my first galleys saw some barbarians they returned home to safety because I was near completing the Great Lighthouse. After building it my galleys were able to explore without worrying about barbarians by ending each turn on a sea tile.

I lost a few suicide galleys but eventually made my first contact in 630BC. After that additional contacts followed quickly. I was able to trade for a lot of tech as well as maps and some gold.

I learned Code Of Laws in 825BC, Philosophy in 710BC, and Republic in 350BC.

In 350BC I was also able to trade for the last Ancient tech I needed and entered the Middle Ages at that date.

My home region at 350BC:

 

[Skydance]

I know this thread is nearly a month dead, but I just wanted to post and say how amazing I think this scenario is. I've been playing the Ancient & Middle ages over and over for two weeks now, and I'm still gaining insights into the game. Thank you so much, Ainwood!

One of the latest "tricks" this game has taught me is using a worker pump to feed my high-production cities. In this case, I had two cities up north (where the hills are) and one down south (with the two fishes). I built a granary in the south (low shields, but high food with 2 fishes and 1 irrigated BG), and aqueducts in each of the northern cities (with 2 mines each, aqueducts are pretty quick to build). Each of the cities has a harbor.

The south can now spit out 1 worker every 2 turns, dedicating 5 production per turn to that task. In the north, each of the two cities produces 6 shields from the mines (but suffer from 0 extra food). However, the northern cities grow at a rate of 1 population per 4 turns by adding workers to them from the south. Huge production (8-9 shields each in sea-based communities) without sacrificing speed of growth ... and I even save 120 shields (the cost of 12 workers) and 2 gpt by not building granaries in the north.

So far, the best start I've found for this map runs along the lines of:

- settler N, NW, NW (plants centrally, along the riverside)
- research Writing at min (builds cash), then research at 100% (using the cash built during Writing): Lit, Pottery, Maps, Philo, CoL, Republic
- plant cities south (between fish), east (in corner), north (NE of fish), and NE (corner of land)
- the instant your 4th settler is in the queue, start working on libraries for all your cities. You should end up with 2 warriors and 1 library in each city.
- granary in the south
- many suicide galleys
- harbors in the E, NE, and N. You don't really need one in Athens until much later.

Edit: I originally remembered the south as not needing a harbor, but I realize now that was only during my Golden Age. In regular times, I don't have enough production at that site to be a 2-turn pump (unless I build a harbor, and mine the BG). The lesson I learned still applies, though.