GOTM 41: First Spoiler

Thanks for all the replies.

Note: I didn't mean a Despotic GA, but rather a fairly early GA after Monarchy/Rep. As I was gunning for 20k, I more or less shot down the Monarchy path for the cultural items, and thought I could trade for Lit if necessary. So, I had Monarchy relative early. I was wondering if it would be wise to trigger it around then to go for a cultural wonder (and start on a second), so that the wonders would be around early enough to try to build the 1000 year doubling. (Then again, it's unlikely another wonder would be completed before 500 BC or later, and thus the 1000 year won't kick in till late-ish in the game).

Anyone know whether the 1000 year is prorated, so that a building around for 500 years will get some bonus culture?
 
re: missing resource. Actually, the lack of the resource was very helpful. Imagine if everyone on the continent but us had it.

So far, this is most fun game I've had in a long time.
 
this shouldn't be too much of a spoiler since everyone should see that pretty well.. and you need to have the map of the starting continent anyway to view this thread. the lack of resource doesn't bother me at all since we have immortal. :)

Iver-P said:
I hope this post is not too revealing. If so would staff remove it or what ever needs to be done? Thanks

I'm just wondering if everyone experienced an conspicious resource missing from the home continent?

How is it that the GOTM "gods" always seem to graciously provide some things, yet force us to cooperate (trade) with others in order to get others?
 
@King Of America

I would have to agree this map has proven to be a blast, the lack of horses has forced a shift in my normal warmongering tactics. The use of Immortals has proven to be an effective alternative.

I haven't even tried to find the other civs(though from them completing Great Wonders I know who the other civs are) since I figure that once I conquer the starting continent and the nearby islands I will be in good position for a nonmilitary win.

Thank you ainwood for an excellent map. Admittedly this is my first GOTM (I've also played a couple of COTM maps) but I'm having a hell of a time once again Thanks!
 
Iver-P said:
I hope this post is not too revealing. If so would staff remove it or what ever needs to be done? Thanks
No problem! To view this spoiler you have to be able to research a MA tech, so you have to have the Wheel. And players have to have a full map of the start continent, so they must either know that there are no horses around, or not care!
 
I was unconcerned about the lack of Horses. I figured that by the time I needed/wanted them, I would be in a position to take/trade for them.
 
i wasn't aware of the lack of horse until i had too many immortals and wanted to build something that requires more shields so that i can have fewer pop-up messages asking me what to build next. :)
 
I thought it was interesting to not have horses, but knowing I had immortals made it much more palatable :). Also, when I go for a 20k win, I tend to not think about military as much (which could be a bad thing, since GL is so important...).
 
well, this is my first GOTM, second if you count COTM. Didn't do write in any spoiler threads last time just because it was my first and I wasn't sure. I don't really have any saves from the past, but I remember pretty well what happened. Started scouting, met up with Rome almost right away, and right away felt like destroying them. I had two warriors in the vicinity of a brand new town, so I smashed it. I never like playing so close to another country, and soon after found that japan was expanding to my north fast. Didn't like that either. Grabbed iron and used my immortals to their best. Rome was gone, and Japan was next. I read that many didn't want a despotic GA, but I hope the fact that I destroyed Rome made up for it... Anyways by the middle ages, I now have all of my southern continent, with a strong second core an FP in Rome (never actually realized leaders could do that, I always just made tons of armies :crazyeye: ), and half of Japan.

Now, I think what I really need is direction. I'll have the entire continent in a few turns, so I'll be able to start focusing on whatever I want for victory. I was thinking 100k, seeing as I've never won that way before. Any advice for it? Also, if I destroy both Japan before we meet with the other civs, will those other civs know what I did to them? Will I have diplomatic problems because of my wars or will it be as if Japan and Rome never existed? thanks all, it's a lot of fun =)
 
For 100k you'll need lots and lots of cities. Pack them in as tight as you can in the areas outside your productive zones. Be very aggressive in rushing culture buildings. Build a few more towns. Get as much cash as possible while keeping up in tech. Trading well helps. You sure you can't squeeze any more towns in?

I had a Despotic Golden Age and I did pretty well with it. It really depends on how large your civ is and what you have to gain with an early war. Usually I like to get it in the early Middle Ages after getting into Republic so I can get Universities and Cathedrals built quicker and boost a tough tech pace, but this game I really wanted Rome ASAP and felt the reward was worth the Despotic penalty. Of course, I didn't end up taking Rome as fast as I wanted (stupid Legions on a hill!) but I stand behind my choice in theory. ;)

As for your rep, if the others never meet Japan, then it's all good. :)
 
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1.27 Predator

Goal: High score - a milk run if time permits, otherwise an unhurried domination.

Opening

I settled at the popular SE location on furs. And built the popular sequence warrior, granary, settler. My worker irrigated two flood plains, chopped and irrigated furs, irrigated another flood plain, then chopped and irrigated another furs. I got my granary in 2950BC and first settler in 2750BC.

Shortly after producing my first settler I was hit by disease. That was the only time disease struck in ancient times. Not the best of luck but not nearly as bad as some people had.

Exploration and Expansion

I decided to build at ring 3 and 7.

Like Smirk I built my second and third towns on plains+furs giving them a nice production boost.

By the time I built my fifth settler in 1990BC I could see iron. He went to claim the eastern iron before Rome took it.

I sent a warrior along the narrow land bridge and even used a second warrior to block the west end while the first warrior explored. Dead end. Oh well, I think it was a good shot, there might have been another Civ over there.

My QSC Status:
16 towns, population 37
10 workers
13 warriors
1 granary, 3 barracks

At 1000BC my area looked like this:

sirpleb41-1a.jpg


Research

Pottery first of course, for the granary build.

After that I turned off research for a few turns waiting to make some contacts. At 3000BC I'd met Japan and Rome. I traded for Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial, The Wheel, and Warrior Code. I was happy to share my knowledge of Masonry in these trades so that my neighbors could work on Pyramids.

I then started research again heading directly for Republic. I figured I'd be able to trade for Iron Working soon enough, it is a high priority for Rome. And I didn't branch off for Literature before Republic - that would be best for a maximum research pace I think, but I was more after maximum growth along with a good research pace.

I learned Writing in 2110, Code Of Laws in 1675, Philosophy in 1525, and Republic in 1075. I revolted immediately drawing a five turn anarchy. I didn't gamble on a second throw for a shorter anarchy.

Along the way I'd traded for Iron Working. In 1050BC I did a bit more trading to get up to date. Rome and Japan weren't researching very quickly. I got Map Making, Mysticism, Horseback Riding, and their maps. And at this date could see the entire homeland and that there were no horses.

Next I researched Literature and then turned off research for eight turns while I rushed a few things and built some libraries to make subsequent research cheaper.

In 710BC I was able to trade for Mathematics and I also started research again. I learned Currency, Polytheism, and then Construction in 410BC to enter the Middle Ages at that date.

War

In 1600BC Japan extorted Writing and in 1225BC Rome extorted Philosophy. I gave in both times, preferring to delay war until a time that suited me better.

I did want war of course, and if possible I wanted it before Rome connected iron. But I didn't want it until I could fight with Immortals. And I didn't want to use them too early - wanted my Golden Age after being in Republic and having a bit larger an empire.

In 730BC I had 13 Immortals and decided it was time. I gifted Republic to Rome to stop her from pop rushing, annoyed her with demands, then told her to leave my territory. She declared. I attacked immediately and began my Golden Age.

Progress was slow but steady. I recaptured one city which flipped back to Rome and pressed on. I took her capital with the coveted Pyramids in 550BC.

When I entered the Middle Ages at 410BC I was still fighting Rome. She was down to three small towns - one in her home region, one on the peninsula to the north, and one on an island.

Preparations for a Palace Jump

In 570BC I completed the Forbidden Palace in one of my original ring 3 cities. In 470BC I settled a new town in the heart of the captured Roman region to become my new Palace.

At the start of the Middle Ages in 410BC I was up to 26 Immortals and only a small number were needed to mop up the remnants of Rome. The rest were on their way to celebrate the imminent relocation of my Palace. I also had a number of workers there, ready to increase its population. I'd be moving the Palace very soon :)
 
What a rash of bad luck in this GOTM! A few people nailed badly by disease, a few nailed by an aggressive Rome (perhaps that's avoidable bad luck but it is bad luck nonetheless - other people took the same risks and got away with it), and Iver-P even got nailed by early iron depletion.

I have a thought about the disease and iron depletion luck elements. I was going to start a new thread about it but then thought better not - it would be hard to avoid spoiler information getting mixed in.

How about modding the GOTMs/COTMs so that there's no floodplain disease and no resource depletion? I don't think either of those things adds anything to the game except frustration, especially in the context of GOTM.

The effect of disease in GOTM41 can I think produce a larger difference between games than a goody hut settler. Usually when disease strikes two citizens are lost. If it happens in the early game and in the capital that translates over time fairly directly to one lost settler. Getting hit three times in the QSC period is a huge impact.

The effect of losing iron due to depletion in GOTM41 is even greater I think. It changes the map to an entirely different game than the rest of us are playing, no longer a comparable game at all.

Turning off resource depletion is straightforward in the game editor. Turning off floodplain disease is trickier I think. But can be done by checking the "disables disease ..." flag for all first tier Ancient techs. Doing that should also ensure that the AIs don't get hit by disease.
 
Smirk said:
The other oddity was Japan settled right next to me, with lots of room inbetween. The first made a bit of sense since he wanted some furs, the other I thought for sure he was going for the spices but instead he settled in the middle of nowhere, by a river.
Sabre said:
Early on Japan settled a town in the middle of the jungle for no apparent reason. Do they know something I don't? Hmmmm. Japan is hopelessly behind in tech (yay! no samurai!), so the town will be mine sooner or later. It'll be interesting to see what drew them there.
For those who don't know about this:

When choosing settle locations the AIs do take into account the locations of resources they don't yet have knowledge of. So it is good odds that later in the game we'll find something of interest there, e.g. coal or rubber.
 
Offa said:
Why is a forest allocated the first time and a useless flood plain the next, when both times the town is getting +3fpt before growth?
Very puzzling. I hope someone finds the answer to this. I'll poke at it too after finishing this game.
 
Open, goal is space (building & some warring;-) ).
The aim is to build an empire early on strong enough to sustain 4 turn R&D later on in I.A. and Modern.

Settled on the same spot as anyone else, following the discussion on the forum decided on early worker. Used tthree chops for granary which completes right before Persepolis grows fom 34. From then Persepolis would produce settlers.
I was rather lucky in my AA compared to others I think. Firstly, no disease struck the settler factory and secondly Rome wasno problem. She was not aggressive early on and although she was on heaps of iron and had IW early she did not connect it.
No horses meant I could simply concentrate on research towards republic, not tempted to do conquest with horsemen.

I gave long thought on the build and settled for 1st ring 4 (nice sites on rivers) and a rather far away 9 second ring. That way, my first ring cities would eventually be able to grow to the really powerfull cities needed to build space ship parts etc.

I discovered republic in 1100, revolted , 5 turns later was republic, suspended research a bit to save money for warrior – immortal upgrade ( Susa and Pasargardae had been pumping out vet warriors, writing this spoieler I noticed the rather large amount of warriors which might have prevented rome from being agressive in my game) and declared on Rome in 750 (gave 'm republic for all their gold+math, ask them to remove and they declared actually;-)

The roman war was smooth, if prolonged a bit, I obviously entered my GA in 730 with the first immortal kill, captured Rome in 670 with the pyramids, but somehow they sneaked a settler out and I gave them peace in 450 BC. I never met a single Legion. That year I also entered the M.A. (since republic I have been able to research anything in 4 turns) Unfortunately I have already built my FP near my capitol (thought was playing C3C) so will not really develop the roman core. Actually, I will ICS anythinhg beyond Rome.
Plans for the immediate future are to cleanse our continent of japanese and romans, meet other civs and ICS the roman and jap lands, meanwhile building our core cities up with universities and other nice stuff.

Cities
3950 Persepolis
2390 Pasargardae
2230 Susa
2030 Arbela
1750 Tarsus (northern iron)
1750 Antioch
1625 Gordium
1500 Bactra
1425 Sidon
1275 Tyre
1175 Sardis
1050 Samaria


Research
Started out pottery on max, wanted to bypass IW as figured I might trade it eventually, at least I did not need it soon as I definitely did not want GA in despotism. Started IW anyway after pottery though as I didn’t meet anyone by that stage, but met rome few turns after that. As soon as I spotted the red border I set research at 0% and first traded for Alfabet in 3200. I then researched full steam towards republic.

3400 Pottery
3200 Alfabet (from Rome)
2310 Writing
2270 Iron Working & Warrior Code (from Rome for wheel, CB and contact with Japan)
1750 Mysticism from Japan
1725 Code of Laws
1550 Philosophy
1250 HBR from Japan
1100 Republic
750 Math (from rome)
690 Writing
610 Polytheism
530 Currency
450 Construction, enter MA

QSC stats12 cities
34 pops
10 workers
19 warriors
1 granary
2 barracks
 

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SirPleb said:
How about modding the GOTMs/COTMs so that there's no floodplain disease and no resource depletion? I don't think either of those things adds anything to the game except frustration, especially in the context of GOTM.

Having had a good week or so to calm down from my fight with the disease-ravaged floodplains of Persepolis, I think I've got a better perspective on it. What upset me so much about the whole incident wasn't that disease was hitting Persepolis, it was that it was the only location I could find for a 4-turn factory (at least until I conquered Rome. :lol: ) Had I just decided to use FP's+Plains for a 4-turn factory when other options were available, it would have been a different story. As it was, I felt I was more or less forced to roll the dice and I came up snake-eyes quite a few times.

I'm in agreement with your suggestions though. The resource depletion especially sounds like a pretty big change in the difficulty level.
 
SirPleb said:
....... a few nailed by an aggressive Rome (perhaps that's avoidable bad luck but it is bad luck nonetheless - other people took the same risks and got away with it).......

Not so sure about this one, looking at my game and reading this spoilers I first had the same thought, but then I realised I had two cities pumping out warriors from round 2000BC onwards, that might have deterred Rome a bit. I paid a price in somewhat less QSC stats, both in number of towns and improvements, but it allowed me to conquer rome (and later japan) swiftly at the moment I choose....

I am not sure whether all players that did not ran into trouble with Rome had a respectable military force, if others had no military and still were not bothered Sir Pleb's point holds true obviously.
 
voe said:
I am not sure whether all players that did not ran into trouble with Rome had a respectable military force, if others had no military and still were not bothered Sir Pleb's point holds true obviously.
I ran into no trouble at all with rome, and I hardly had any military but a few disposable reg warriors before republic came in. For some odd reason, Rome did not go for any of its farther-stretched iron sources (the 2 ones near east and south coast) and did not connect its close-by iron (WTH ! :crazyeye: ).
Therefore, I was able to conquer roman lands with some republican immortals way, way faster than I would have expected.

On a side spoiler note, this gave me 2 armies, which I used to grab all of japan before samu's kicked in. I rushed FP in the japanese silk/iron city in the middle of the land, before finishing off the research to MA in 90AD (pretty late, but future is pretty golden for Xerxes alone on his continent. Suicide galley galore coming methinks).
 
voe said:
Not so sure about this one, looking at my game and reading this spoilers I first had the same thought, but then I realised I had two cities pumping out warriors from round 2000BC onwards, ...
Well, if you pumped them out from somewhere around that time you probably didn't have a very deterring army in 1990 BC, when I was attacked. :) But of course the Romans could still have been more superior to me than to you because I play predator where the AI get extra starting military units.

It doesn't matter to me. There should always be a risk of failure. Helps us keep the sweet taste of success.
 
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