GOTM 41: Spoiler 2

[Nata]

PTW Open,
Going for Space victory.

AA spoiler.

Most of the Middle Ages were spent in wars: because of the slow AA start Immortals had a lot of enemy cities to conquer, and they did a good job.

210AD Dow on Romans. Enter GA from Immortals.
310AD Peace with Romans for 2 of their cities.
Galley goes out after GLH, meets Ottomans the next turns, gets Mono and WM for Eng, Lit and Republic. Soon we get all the contacts, but we don't share ours as we are going to be very nasty to our continental neighbours.

380AD. War with Japan.
400AD. GL Darius!
480AD - Peace with Japan for 2 of their cities. It is left with 4 cont. towns. FP build in Osaka with GL. Osaka has 5RPC cities all around her - thanks Japs!
Same year: war with Romans.
550AD - Peace with Romans for 1 city.
600AD - War with Japan.
640AD - War with Romans.
700Ad - Japan gone.
900 AD - Romans are gone before meeting anybody. I got Pyramids and GL from them. They didn't even have a chance to use their GL - Japan was the furthest behind in science.
980AD - Enter IA with Medicine.

AI didn't help much with the research after that initial exchange with the new continent, my being caring and sharing with them didn't help. I was destined to self-research to the end.

My progress: 400AD, 700AD and 910AD.

 

[tao]

Oh, it seems my humber quest for 20k award is again just a dream. i feel i had a better start but didn't get as many GL as you did. i got 4 in total and 3 of them hurried wonders. i don't remember my exact finish date, it's before 1850AD but after 1800AD.

I got 6 Leaders in total, and 1800AD is my (still ambitious) target date, not yet a reality. Let's keep on striving.

 

[Balton]

I am also going for 20K in this game.

As I am playing this one on my PowerBook (12.1" Rev.C 1.33Ghz 1.25GB RAM) with AlanH's modpack, I am just curious if we are able to calculate the finish date like the utilities (Civ Assist) for windows?

 

[tao]

I am also going for 20K in this game.

As I am playing this one on my PowerBook (12.1" Rev.C 1.33Ghz 1.25GB RAM) with AlanH's modpack, I am just curious if we are able to calculate the finish date like the utilities (Civ Assist) for windows?

I run CivAssist under VirtualPC - slow but useful.

Much better for 20k is AlanH's Excel spreadsheet (see his signature).

 

[Grogs]

I got 6 Leaders in total, and 1800AD is my (still ambitious) target date, not yet a reality. Let's keep on striving.

In 20K, I think *when* you get your GL's is the most important thing. A GL in the AA is probably worth 4 GL's in
the IA. For this reason, early leader farming seems to be critical for a really fast finish date. In Conquests, it
seems to be much more a matter of good city planning and research.

 

[ionimplant]

Much better for 20k is AlanH's Excel spreadsheet (see his signature).

I agree! AlanH's excel is great! the only thing i'm wondering is whether he has got a similar one for conquest. i guess we can also somehow modify the PTW version to do it... but too lazy to do that.

 

[ionimplant]

In 20K, I think *when* you get your GL's is the most important thing. A GL in the AA is probably worth 4 GL's in
the IA. For this reason, early leader farming seems to be critical for a really fast finish date. In Conquests, it
seems to be much more a matter of good city planning and research.

for PTW, early GL is rare since you don't have that many cannon to redline enemy units. and elite immortal don't retreat for this game.
it seems up to now everyone who did fight to get GLs did get about 1 GL and that's fair enough.

 

[Megalou]

Predator

Left the ancient age in 110 BC. In 190 AD I met the Ottomans by the long route. Before that I had twice got close enough to see borders but sinking.

After a disastrous start with the Romans I eventually wiped them out and started building many galleys. Unfortunately I first didn’t notice the spot to the west where you could travel safely to the other continent aided by the Great Lighthouse. So I sent galleys all the way past the large uninhabited island where I had first met the Ottomans, and then north to harass the weak Iroquois. I was also further delayed because Ottomans looked too strong and the march to the Celts, whom I ROP raped, took a while.

Taking the capitals at the right moments and not wasting units on their doorsteps was an important factor I think I handled pretty well. Because the continental AIs had so little area to expand to, they all had lots of spearmen or pikemen (England) in their capitals, originally built to protect settlers. I reached a library sponsored domination victory in 620 AD.

Looking at the results, I think I did OK in the middle ages. Didn’t anyone else try domination without researching all the way to navigation? The only logical reasons I can see to do that seems to be not having the Great Lighthouse or wanting to connect the luxuries. RedBad’s excellent score seems to indicate that those luxuries were worthwhile thumbsup: but a goalless draw in the awards quest) but doesn’t navigation mean a slower date? Without it, you could both build libraries for the excess cash and face weaker opponents.

Then again, the ship chaining was so boring I doubt I will do it again.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I agree! AlanH's excel is great! the only thing i'm wondering is whether he has got a similar one for conquest. i guess we can also somehow modify the PTW version to do it... but too lazy to do that.

Alan is jealous of us PC owners cause he's only got a Mac and he can't get C3C
Awaiting Alan's per usual Mac-rant...

For all I know, he may still have made a C3C version though. How he manages it all is beyond me

Well, I've finally (sort of) finished my house and I spent my easter holiday wisely, playing civ
Finished in 790, domination with my first 5-figure Jason score.

I attacked Japan early and brought their worker with me down south. After the early war, Toku kinda froze and never posed any threat to me. Japan's 2-city limbo existence was only ended a few turns before Rome was out though; around 3K years later and just before the ADs.

I made two huge mistakes in this game
1) Althought I hadn't put out many galleys yet, I had a feeling that the GLight would be beneficial in this game. So I can't really explain why I rushed Sun instead of Glight with my first and only GL from attacking Rome's last city. I was ing when I found the 4-tile crossing. That would have improved my finish by centuries.

2) I misjugded the military power of the AI on the other continent so I researched all the way to MT, while knights would have been plenty. It didn't matter much w/r to when I finished (the GLight-mistake was far worse), but still a lesson learnt for the next game.

 

[tao]

Alan is jealous of us PC owners cause he's only got a Mac and he can't get C3C
Awaiting Alan's per usual Mac-rant...

Are you asking for a buttkick, or a , or ?

 

[denyd]

The Roman Ambassador entered Xerxes’ office with a much different attitude than his last appearance when his fateful demand for gold had touched off a war between Persia and Rome. The price of two cities and a small amount of gold was the offer from Xerxes and with orders to sign peace at all costs, the treaty was agreed to. Now that Xerxes had Rome relegated to a single city at the end of a peninsula, though with iron, it was time to square things with the other bully on the island and soon a large force of Immortals began the trek from Rome towards the Japanese border. Xerxes knew that without horses on the island he would be at a disadvantage against the powerful Samurai, if Tokugawa was allowed to bring them to bear in a battle.

The Japanese Ambassador was a little surprised to be invited to visit the Persian leader. On past occasions he had been the one making demands on Xerxes and was even more surprised when he was presented with a declaration of war from the man he had been used to pushing around. The Japanese border cities had little defensive strength and the swarms of Immortals left them no time for reinforcements to arrive. Three cities fell on the initial assault as the Persian campaign moved north. With the fall of another three cities, Japan had been stripped of access to iron and from then on the Japanese archers and spearmen were unable to defeat a single Immortal. After the fall of the final five Japanese cities on the home island, Xerxes summoned the Japanese Ambassador and demanded the remaining cities as tribute and was delighted when the offered was accepted. Now only a single Roman city was on the home island and a pair of cities; one each for Rome and Japan remained that were known to Persia.

The celebration of the new Summer Palace in Dariush Kabir was a time of great joy in Persia. Her enemies had been caged and would soon be eliminated, scientific research was providing new knowledge on a regular basis and the infrastructure of Persian cities was nearly complete. Best of all, the infernal jungle north of the capital was finally being removed to reveal lush grasslands. Soon the workshop of Leonardo would be complete and then the time would come for the Immortals to be retired to peaceful ways.

As the peace treaties expired, both Rome and Japan were removed from the map and Xerxes stood alone on the world stage. His meager navy had been sending caravels on missions of exploration but had yet to find other nations. At the dedication of Copernicus’ Observatory, Xerxes addressed the crowd with a new goal for his people, “We are rulers of all the lands that we survey. I have ordered our new fleet of galleons to set at dawn in search of new lands for our expansion. We are here at this dedication to celebrate the stars above and that will be our final goal. To the stars and I want to be there within with in the next 800 years. To Alpha Centauri before 1800 AD is our new goal.”

Thirty years later at the dedication of Newton’s University in Antioch, news of an empire ruled by Osman of the Ottomans had just been received. Soon Spain, England, the Iroquois and the Celtic people would be known to Xerxes. While Persia was ahead of these foreigners in science, they each had technology, luxuries or gold to contribute to Persia in exchange for now common knowledge in the Persian cities. The year was now 1060 AD and Persia had met all of the nations of this world and new that the weakest of them, the Iroquois would soon be targeted for conquest. Until then, Persia would continue to research and trade with other continent.

 

[MOTH]

Open class going for Diplomatic Award.

The middle ages saw me reducing Rome to a single 4 tile jungle city that I gifted to them before wiping them out. It also saw me eliminating Japan before anyone could contact them. I left Rome arround until almost the end of the game so that I could profit from War Happiness.

I was holding off on a second core until I got a Great Leader to rush the Palace. I didn't get this leader until I had finished wiping out the Iroquois and had nearly eliminated England. This was in the mid IA so this isn't really part of this spoiler.

As I wanted to get to the Modern Age as quickly as possible I was concentrating on research. I avoided all optional techs (eventually I researched Mil Trad) and I gifted the Ottomans foward to both the middle ages and the industrial age. The only useful techs I got from him were (I think): Monotheism, Chivalry, and Banking. I managed 4 turn research on nearly everything.

I don't remember what date I entered the IA, but I think it was about 500AD. I got Steam as my free Industrial Age tech.

Assuming that I could continue 4 turn research and time my Sci Method and UN pre-builds well I would be looking at a Diplo victory between 1050 and 1150 AD.

 

[CdB]

Middle Ages
v1.29f Open
Ancient Ages

350 BC: I search engineering in 5 turns to fasten my slow moves because of rivers and then towards Astronomy at full speed.
290 BC: My lone settler just lands too late to grab one horse from Spanish Area. This is too bad. I will settle on an empty available spot near by. England is my next target after Japan since there are weak and that this soon to be town is blocked by a single English town with an Incense Luxury.
190 BC : Rome has only one capital in the deep south.
150 BC: End of GA, I have re-positionned my forces towards the North and I am advancing my Elite forces towards last Roman town. I build embassy to countries in other continent. They are still in Despostism
110 BC: Rome is Dead ! No GL ! I only faced 3 reg legions (on top of spear / warriors) and they did not resist against my Vet / Elite Immortals – Rome did not even had a GA.

Japanese War (70 BC – 350 AD)
70 BC : Everybody moved to Middle Ages (except Iroquois) on the New world. I exchanged WM and rushed Temple & Library in my lone city in New continent to resist cultural pressure! I declare War to Japan (still in Despotism). I have 26 towns – 1 Se – 12 Wo – 1 Wa – 1 Ar – 1 Spear (A missed Immortals in the build list) – 2 galleys – 32 Immortals.
10 AD : First disease in the game and in Tyre (not critical at all) ! I have now Astronomy and I will move some forces to attack England – Damn, I can not cross the ocean. I go towards Navigation. I am playing it soft with poor Japan. I am pushing my Elite Immortals first to maximize the chances of GL by Elite Wins. I am also strongly building infrastructure with Universities & MarketPlace.
70 AD : I have a pile a worker roading the jungle.
110 AD : I have now navigation – Just waiting for the Light-house to finish building, in 14 turns. I can now build a decent force to attack England. I need to move another settler to build an harbour town.
210 AD : It is a slow, slow conquest, really slow – I have a pre-built for Leo’s … I have now 35 towns – 3 settlers – 13 Wo – 1 Wa – 1 Ar – 1 Sp – 4 Caravel – 40 Immo. Just finished to research banking. I am now moving strongly towards Theory of Gravity
230 AD : Tokyo just build the Great light-house. I switch my build to the Colossus loosing 56 shields – too deny others also. I should I have gone for the Magellan’s but then Magellan’s is in another pair of turns … so in second though, it is not a so bad decision. I will need a galleon going towards a recently settled town in the SE by Japan to finish them.
250 AD : In fact I may try to directly attack the English in Newcastle. It is a port and linked to Horses. The problem is that it is also close to their capital…
280 AD : From the battle of Nara I have a leader - at last a Leader. It is an Army that joins my 48 Immortals that I have started to move to the new continent (7 only are there). I have 3 caravels to ferry those across; One Caravel will go SE to track last Japanese town and One will go towards Newcastle directly.

English War (350 AD – 590 AD)
350 AD : Japan is dead. I finally have my forces ready to attack England. I will need some more settlers to land on the newly found SE island. Maybe some Horses are there? I have now 38 towns so my army is close to no support cost : 2 Se – 14 wo – 1 Ar – 4 Musket – 6 Caravel – 1 Army – 51 Immortals. I have only 14 Immortals in the newly founded soon to be Harbor on the new continent. Still some major ferrying.
360 AD : Oxford fells easily. I need to push strong towards the W to reach Newcastle with reinforcements. I have negociated a ROP with Spain for this.
370 AD : I am attacking Newcastle with one 3 Elite Immortals hoping they can hold it. I am under pressure of swords with only 3 immortals on a hill. I start building some horses.
410 AD : Hasting fells. I am ready the next turn to give reinforcements to Newcastle who survived bravely the fight.
430 AD : I re-conquer Newcastle and will build more Horses.
470 AD : A new leader is building FP in York, conveniently placed in the new continent. I will build some more town around this area to build a decent core.
490 AD : London is captured.

Industrial Ages
v1.29f Open

540 AD : Leo’s is created next turn. I am searching Steam (in 6 turns) and then will search MT to upgrade horses. My army is 5 Se (for the SE island and some empty spots in the new Continent) – 15 Wo – 1 Ar – 19 Horsemen – 4 Musket – 7 Caravels – 1 Army – 39 Immortals
590 AD : English are dead. I am heavily building horses settling the island in SE and moving more forces to the new continent.
640 AD : I can upgrade my horses to Cav for all my cash (1800 GP) – I have now 59 towns – 5 Se – 16 Wo – 1 Ar – 9 Horses – 4 Muskets – 36 Cavs – 1 Caravel – 7 Galleons – 1 Army – 35 Immortals. My horses are on the new continent and 8 cavs also. I need to ferry more cavs. I am now searching Indus while putting rail across new & old continent to fasten moves.

Iroquois War (670 AD – 720 AD)
670 AD : I have managed to move 17 Cavs on the new continent and ready to attack Iroquois. I have 4 galleons on the way to new continent. I need to have some workers also following to road and rail.
720 AD: I capture all towns from Iroquois. Must have a galley somewhere with a settler because Iroquois are not destroyed. I managed to grab a leader that will a new army for Cavs.

Spanish War (740 AD – 770 AD)
740 AD: I can attack Spain from various areas with my 55 cavs ready for the on-slaught. I capture 6 towns
750 AD: I am searching Replacable Parts (5 turns) to fasten the railing. I capture 2 more towns. I have another leader that build a new army for Cavs.
770 AD : Revolting town from Iroquois gives me one more leader; I make peace with Iroquois. I move my forces towards the south to attack Keltoi.

My army is 17 Wo – 1 Ar – 50 Cavs – 4 Riflemen – 1 Canon – 10 Galleons – 5 Armies – 34 Immortals.
780 AD : Domination Victory – 6978 – Jason over 10000 first time for me

 

[eldar]

Open

Times Ancient

With the Pyramids and Great Library supplied by a badly-beaten Rome (but a Rome with two sources of Iron, nevertheless), I should've been looking at a decent game. However I'd really not taken much care over city placement, etc.; so my plans for a fast UN went out of the window.

The first 6 turns of my Middle Ages were spent in Anarchy, and in 130BC I became a Republic.

I then made the stupidest mistake of the game, which certainly easily cost me the 20+ turns by which I missed both a pre-1000AD win, and my first 10k Jason score.

Instead of researching straight to Navigation, I blithely went all the way along the bottom of the tech tree, just out of habit.

In 110AD, my Peact Treaty with Rome expired, and I re-declared on them. In the inter-turn, a Roman Legionnaire died attacking one of my Immortals, and my Golden Age started.

Rome were easily despetched, the only problem being they'd got a couple of colonies on the large eastern island so I had to send a couple of Immortals over there by boat to finish them. Rome were finished in AD290.

With my core cities now pumping out Immortals every other turn, I was massing by the Japanese border, and declared on them in AD260.

In AD320, a pair of suicide Galleys made it across the gap to the other continent, and I used Engineering to leverage contacts with the rest of the world.

Japan were finished off in AD410 - again, they provided a minor hitch by having a Settler in a Galley. Unfortunately for them, they landed the Settler and its Archer escort on the large eastern island right by one of my Immortals - a nice easy finish.

My screenshot comes from AD410, the whole of the starting continent under Persian control:

If I'd followed the right research plan, I'd have had Navigation by then - or before. Ship my 50+ Immortals across to the other continent, and wham-bam-thankyou-mam. Instead I was stuck for 20-odd turns of research.

Thus my notes post-AD410 (all of today's playing session) are sparse, or rather, non-existent.

I abandoned Persepolis (having lost the Hanging Gardens, and rather stupidly having forgotten that I was using other Wonders as University pre-builds in other cities, switched it to a Colosseum instead... I also failed to sell off all its improvements before abandoning) in AD700 or so, moving my capital to Rome. My FP was in Parsagadae.

I entered the Industrial Age sometime between AD800 and AD900, at which point I was at war with the Celts (the weakest on the other continent) and was running over them with my mixed footsoldiers and artillery pieces. I'd recently bought Horses from Spain and was using them to build Knights.

From that point, I planned on moving north, taking out England and the Iroquois for domination.

Neil.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Question: I got an MGL at some point, and tried to rush a wonder. I didn't see the icon to let me rush a GW, and when I tried to Right-Click -> Hurry, it said that "We cannot rush [wonder]". Anyone know why this is happening? I'm playing the PTW version, and I have the "Civ3 Complete" package. Is it because I loaded the sav through the Civ3 Complete UI that it's using Conquests rules?

Another question:
If I just wanted to start a new PTW game, how do I do this?

Anyway, I would've been able to get Bach's if I could've rushed with MGL (The Ottomans got it, I think)... I resorted to using my MGL for Heroic Epic (I got my first MGL super late, so couldn't build heroic epic for a LONG time....)

Despite that glitch or whatever happened, I paced fairly well. Here's my 20k City:

Parsagarde (Middle Ages)
320AD: Cathedral
560AD: Sistine
570AD: University
640AD: Colosseum
830AD: Copernicus
1030AD: Shakespeare
1040AD: Heroic Epic
1220AD: Newton
1280AD: Forbidden Palace

I think I should've built the Colosseum earlier, and spent $ to rush during my GA instead of letting improvements build (but they were building soooo fast!!! Like 3 or 4 turn Cathedrals and stuff)... Grrrr...

I took a bit of a gamble in going for Shakespeare before Newton, and it's paid off, i guess. At the rate I'm accumulating culture, I'll have about 100 turns to spare, so whatever year that'll be (I guess 3 or 4 of my culture items will get the 1000 year double, so that'll knock a few more turns off).

Anyway, got another question:
Does it matter (score-wise, Jason or the score Civ gives) whether I improve my civ to have lots of citizens or not? I read somewhere that the Jason score sorta deals with all that for you... It's just taking a lot of time managing like 50 workers... (I'm NOT at dom limit, btw.)

 

[Redbad]

Question: I got an MGL at some point, and tried to rush a wonder. I didn't see the icon to let me rush a GW, and when I tried to Right-Click -> Hurry, it said that "We cannot rush [wonder]". Anyone know why this is happening?

No, I don't have any idea.

Another question:
If I just wanted to start a new PTW game, how do I do this?

ctrl-shift-q perhaps?

edit:
After reading Niklas' post (#39) you could be referring to the fact that you don't have a shortcut. In that case you just select the Civilization3X.exe as described by Niklas and make a shortcut for it. The shortcut can be placed on your desktop (or any other place you like) and by double-clicking it you can play PTW.

Anyway, got another question:
Does it matter (score-wise, Jason or the score Civ gives) whether I improve my civ to have lots of citizens or not?

Yes, score is based on size of the empire, both on the size of population and on the size of the land.

 

[eldar]

Question: I got an MGL at some point, and tried to rush a wonder. I didn't see the icon to let me rush a GW, and when I tried to Right-Click -> Hurry, it said that "We cannot rush [wonder]". Anyone know why this is happening? I'm playing the PTW version, and I have the "Civ3 Complete" package. Is it because I loaded the sav through the Civ3 Complete UI that it's using Conquests rules?

Afaik, you can load a PtW save with Conquests - so you might have done this by mistake. No sure about Complete, but you should have a PtW icon somewhere? If not on the desktop, in the Start->etc. menu for Civ3?

 

[Megalou]

@ÆnigmÆffect,
Not sure this means anything to your query, but right-clicking a town and choosing Hurry Production is not the same as hurrying with a leader even if there is a leader there. It's a failed attempt to hurry with cash or pop-rush. Maybe you mean right-clicking the leader itself.

 

[Niklas]

Question: I got an MGL at some point, and tried to rush a wonder. I didn't see the icon to let me rush a GW, and when I tried to Right-Click -> Hurry, it said that "We cannot rush [wonder]". Anyone know why this is happening? I'm playing the PTW version, and I have the "Civ3 Complete" package. Is it because I loaded the sav through the Civ3 Complete UI that it's using Conquests rules?

Another question:
If I just wanted to start a new PTW game, how do I do this?

I too have the Civ III Complete package, and I think I know the cause of your problems. When you install Complete you get two executables, one called Civ3Conquests.exe in the folder {Civ folder}\Conquests and the other Civilization3X.exe in the folder {Civ folder}\Civ3PTW. For some strange reason the installation won't create a shortcut to the latter, only to the former. If you load a PTW save with the Conquests exe, it will in effect be a Conquests game. I'm not sure exactly how big an impact that will have, the tech tree and all that should be the same as in PTW since that depends on the save.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Um... Will I still be able to submit my game...? (I haven't been getting any of the Conquest only stuff either... Seems I mainly lost the ability to rush a GW...) It's my first GOTM, and, dammit, it'd be nice if I could submit it, even though I screwed up with the save. I feel disadvantaged if anything...