GOTM 41: Spoiler 2

[AlanH]

Can we plant forest and then chop them to get the 10 shields in gotm/cotm?
i remember reading some good player's article talking about doing this in newly conquered enemy metropolitan to decrease population quickly. but it didn't work in my recent games.

I saw that post as well, not long ago, but I can't recall where. Yes, you can set a resisting town to build a settler, and chop three forests down within the city 21 tile limits to produce the settler in one turn. You then have two fewer foreign citizens to worry about, plus the one you starved during the inter-turn if you had two or more Starving Taxmen (I do so love that expression ).

If you don't have three forests you can plant them first, but as Bluebox said, you can't get shields from chopping them if the tile has ever been chopped before. Since you can't be sure that the AI didn't do it before you arrived, there's a risk.

 

[k-a-bob]

War begins again, since the Japanese cultured my sole Iron city away - right around 10 AD. I enlist Rome to help, and by 540 AD, Japan is a 1CC.

I finally send a galley across the water (picked up GLH from Japanese) and met everyone else, gaining tech parity in 640 AD.

Rome was too strong - so they are not long for the Earth. DoW in 730, quickly taking their Japanese conquests. I then head down the west coast, then my iron city back and circle around Rome (after a failed seige of Rome) and leave them only on the SE island in 1170.

By 1300, Rome was history, and Japan, who had filled in with some settlers during the 2nd Roman war, was gone by 1360 - when I hit the IA, gaining Nationalism. I revolt to Republic, since I am not going to start any more wars, aiming for Diplo or Space victory.

I am glad that I didn't go to Democracy, seeing the events that the future would hold. Immediately after becoming the Grand Republic of Persia, Spain lands 2 cavs on the SE island (with no defense to speak of and takes a city.)
Iroquois join after I take the city back the next turn.

So much for "Give Peace a Chance!"


Still playing - going for space win, should have it soon.

 

[AlanH]

Forestry can be a little bit irritating in Civ3. IIRC, the main rule is: you can only chop each tile once and get the 10s, wether there was forest from the beginning or the forest has been made by workers. MM freaks seem to use a code in the city names to remember the forested tiles.

If you want to learn more, there is at least an article from cracker about "forestry operations". You'll have to search for that by yourself, sorry.

Here's Cracker's seminal article on forestry, including some more recent updates on the management of tiles that have been chopped and which city gets the shields when there are two in contention

 

[tR1cKy]

Vanilla, open class. Going for domination.

When i enter the medieval age, i'm in the middle of a fierce fight with Rome.

50BC - Captured Pisae

10BC - Captured Antium and generated a leader!

50AD - Destroyed Viriconium

70AD - Suicide galley spots other continent, but is sunk before making contact with other races. There's a path for a galley to reach the other continent safely, providing we have the great lighthouse. So the leader will be used to build it, next turn.

90AD - Destroyed Byzantium. Rome is erased. Hurried the great lighthouse in Pisae.

130AD - Galley crosses the ocean and reaches the other landmass, but no contact yet!

150AD - Spotted an ottoman city. Trade madness begins. I do not intend to sell contact with the Japanese to any of them.

Contact with Suleyman. Traded world map + 80 golds in return from his territory map and contact with the Keltoi. Suleyman is still in the ancient age. He lacks polytheism.

The Keltoi are quite backwards. They lack code of laws, polytheism, currency and construction. Acquired contact with the Spanish and the English for my world map and 20 golds.

Spain and England both lack polytheism.

I trade with spain to grab the contact with the only civ left. Contact with the Iroquois, territory map and 30 golds for my world map.

The Iroquois lack polytheism. I offer them my world map for their territory map + 40 gold.

I repeat the game with the English. My world map for their territory map + 30 gold.

Now back to the Keltoi. I offer construction for their world map + 40 gold. Iroquois again. My world map + 30 gold for their world map. Finally a world map exchange with the Ottomans. The 2nd continent is quite big! Almost double of mine. Domination will be hard.

Amazingly, no one has researched literature. No libraries anywhere. An espionage on Tokyo reveals that the city is only 6 turns short for the completing the Hanging Gardens. Not knowing anyone on the New World, he may be ROP-raped without any pratical consequences to my reputation.

250AD - Japan completes the Hanging Gardens. Placement of the ROP Rape squadron is almost complete.

260AD - Iroquai, Keltonia and England know literature. Spain and the Ottomans still ignore it.

270AD - Bought literature from England for my world map and 60 bucks.

310AD - Declared war on Japan. Captured 7 cities

360AD - Captured Tokyo. Owned the Hanging Gardens and some ivory. Veii completes the Forbidden Palace.

380AD - 2 failed attacks on the 2 remaining japanese cities on the north. Light forces and bad luck with the RNG do the work. I expected something better from veteran and elite immortals vs. regular spearmen.

390AD - Captured Nara and Nagasaki. An immortal lost (against a spearman). A leader is created. Destroyed Sapporo. Matsuyama still resists. An immortal killed against a spearman. City size 2, on plains, no walls...

400AD - Captured Matsuyama, the last japanese city. Japan is obliterated. Troops north move back to the southern part of the continent. Next target: the Ottomans.
Started colonization of the eastern island. First settlement founded (Hamadan)

410AD - Troops start retreating to the south. New ones are built. In the former japanese territory holes are filled with some libraries and a pair of settlers.

470AD - The 1st contingent of Immortals sails off for Ottomans land. 18 units in 9 galleys.

480AD - Researched feudalism. Research set to engineering (8 turns)

490AD - Spearman mass upgrade.

500AD - Leader used to rush Sun Tzu in Cumae.

540AD - Researched engineering. Started invention (8 turns)

560AD - Alliance with the English against the Iroquois. England declares, and this should weaken both of them. Research lowered: invention in 10 turns, but with a surplus of 110 gpt.

580AD - Declared war on Ottomans and ROP-raped them. 11 cities captured and no attack failed, this time i was a little more prudent. Those morons have placed their cities quite badly, some of them are overlapping, while huge spots of land are left open. After the initial attack, the dogpile. I have Spain, Keltonia and England to sign an alliance against Ottomans.

In the interturn, one of the ottoman cities is recaptured. The source of incense is cut off and several cities go into civil disorder. I turn on the governor everywhere and put all the troops out of the cities.

650AD - Discovered Invention. Research set to Gunpowder (11 turns)

680AD - Assimilated the Keltoi. Bad luck against the last ottoman city, a stinking village on plains. 2 veteran immortals fail against 2 spears.

720AD - Finally the english capture the last ottoman settlement, after 3 (yes, three) failed attempt by mine.

From this point, i've no more kept a detailed log. Things were pretty straightforward, the only unknown was the year of the victory. In brief, i've colonized the islands east of the home continent and the peninsula. I've placed the settlements strategically and rushed libraries where necessary, in order to claim as much land as possible. A lot of immortals were built, and in the final 10 turns i built several happiness buildings (military was already enough). In 850 or 860 i waged my final war against England. In 900AD domination is achieved.

Civ score: 6311.
Jason score: 10106.

Mistakes: many, many, many. Probably after my "ugly start" attempt on deity i felt the need of playing a less mindwarping game. This is also the 1st time i played with Persia, and probably i was a little overconfident with immortals. BTW, i had 8 (yes, eight) failed attacks. And i made a blunder in research. The better thing to research was surely engineering, and i went for feudalism instead.

It has been also a mistake to assimilate Rome in a single campaign. I should have signed peace, then quickly amass forces, then sign a ROP with Rome and Japan, then ROP-rape the remnants of Rome before going for Japan.

With the Ottomans i've just been unlucky. One city recaptured and 2 flipped surely slowed me down. And that damn last settlement resisted for 3 times against my immortals before being captured by England at their first attempt.

Probably, if i played a game in a "chess match style" (i.e. studying carefully every move and every possible variant) like i did with my "ugly start", i would have finished 30 turns earlier and with a Jason score of 12000 points or more. BTW, it's my 1st GOTM attempt and i'm pretty satisfied with it.

 

[Lawrence]

I got 20spt in despotism, 67 spt later. But the early shields count, IMHO.
IMHO there is a great (unfair?) advantage for PtW over 1.29. In most of my games the free tech nationalism is "useless" compared to steam. OTOH in this game monotheism was good to get cathedrals. But rocketry will be bad in the MT compared to computers.

That was why I switched to PTW.

But recently I found that Nationalism IS useful. Because in climbing the tech ladder AI will surely try to research Nationalism first in the Industrial Ages, will take a long time... So if you are trying a faster space victory, you may actually get more than 1 tech from the AI in industrial when one of them get Nationalism for free. Not when you are scientific yourself, though.

 

[DBear]

DBear's GotM41o Medieval Age highlights:

Towns founded:
10BC Ghulaman
30AD Zohak
50 Istakhr
260 Jinjan
320 Borazjan
340 Herat
460 Dakyanus
490 Bampur
500 Tureng Tepe
530 Merv, Behistun
550 Kandahar
580 Altin Tepe
670 Bunyan
920 Charsadda
1130 Ura Tyube


Technologies:
10AD Lit(learn)
310 Feud (learn)
480 Engineer (learn)
650 Invent (learn)
780 Guns (learn)
900 Chem (learn), Theo (trade)
920 Repub (trade)
960 Ed (learn)
1030 Astro (learn)
1060 Chiv (trade)
1090 Bank + Metal (trade)
1100 Nav (learn), PP + Music (trade)
1170 Econ (learn), Physics + Mil Trad
1240 Magnets (learn)
1275 Grav (learn),

Wars:
370BC-90AD Japan. Rome had been hittin' them bad and I decided to pile on. Japan destroyed.
1180- Iroquois. Weakest civ on 2nd continent, wanted to hit them to get a toehold.
1270- Romans. This is the war I've been building up for.

Wonders:
10AD Colossus built in Tarsus.
250 Hanging Gardens in Persepolis.
760 Sun Tzu in Pasagardae.
1030 FP in Bactra.

540 Warwick beat us to the GLib by 5 turns.

contacts:
770 After several galleys sinking, we finally have a couple survive and they contact the Celts. Embassy in 780.
780 Celts must've sold contact with us around, because the rest of the 2nd continent now knows about us. We end up getting gold and maps of the world. They are up Theo and Chiv. Open embassies to all others except Iroquois--the weakest. London is getting Leonardo in 10. England and the Iroquois are at war and England appears to be winning.
Just noticed--we have access to gunpowder and the Romans don't.
800 Military advisor sez we are weak compared to Romans, average to Turks and strong to everyone else. We are far ahead in score, with the Romans and Turks tied for 2nd. Still behind in tech, though. That's why I'm going for chem and going to try to trade my way to parity.
1050 We trade two exotics to Ottomans for horses. They already have nav, but we are trying to get it. We are building more universities so we can catch up in tech.
1200 Entremont beats us to Copernicus by 3. Persepolis switched to Adam Smith.
1230 Rome tries moving some pikes through. We make ultimatum, they back down.

Scores:
QSC: 208 Firaxis, 2109 QSC.
Ancient: Persia 436, Rome 407, Japan 294
Medieval:

After the Japan War ends, it's a land-grab phase. An uninhabited island is found to the south.

50AD Golden Age ends.
350 Hispalis flips to us.
380 Rome demands Lit, we refuse, they back down. They get the Lighthouse.
850 Syracuse flips to us with all that lovely ivory and because we just got saltpeter hooked up, we get a musket to defend.
860 Brundisium flips to us. Salamanca builds Sistine.

 

[Tubby Rower]

AA summary

Well the Roman war went well. The legions put up a fight but not enough. I drove Caesar onto the small SE island. I managed to get a leader & rushed the GL after trading for Literature. I turned off research. Japan bailed on the MA with 6 turns left. So the next turn after peace with Rome I went after Japan. The jungle slowed me down a bit but I took him out in 18 turns.

After getting a couple of immortals over to the Roman island I declared again on Caesar and wiped him out.

Meanwhile the Spainish Ugly Lady demanded some sort of tech tribute. I declined, she declared. I signed up the English, Iroquois & Celts against her. No one ever had a clue where my continent was (looking at CrpViewer). Hiawatha had a good time with Elizabeth. He ended up taking her out.

I planted a city on the NE corner of the other continent to get horses. I started building cavs. I decided to try Otto first. I took the northern most city as a base.

The English tried to sneak attack me so I asked her to politely leave (she declared) and then gifted that city to the Iroquois. So I forked my attention on two fronts. I started taking some English cities and secured Ottos Horse tile.

I researched almost all of the MA techs. I had the GL so for a while I had no research. Then I decided to make a run for MT. I 4 turn reaserached up to it & the turn before I got it 2 civs finally got Chivalry and Education. I finished out the 4 turn research to reach the IA in 770AD with the free tech being Medicine.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Ancient Age Conquest (AAC, see rules here )
Since I played in a rush I decided to make everything primitive and went for ACC.

Congrats, Solenoozerec. Looks like you pulled another high-scoring AAC out of your hat! I hate I didn't have time to play this GoTM, as I probably would have joined you in the challenge.

 

[solenoozerec]

I hate I didn't have time to play this GoTM, as I probably would have joined you in the challenge.

You should. AAC is the least time consuming manner of playing after OCC. I also did not have time to play GOTM41 and this is why I played AAC (I officialy spend aboutr 15 hours, but actualy it was just about 10 hours).
Besides, you are the master of AAC .

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Besides, you are the master of AAC .

Pah!

Thank you kindly, but one game does not a master make. AFAIK, you are the only person to complete two of them! Although I may indeed be the master of the SPAOEUMC variant--Slow Playing Agonize Over Every Unit Move Challenge.

You are right about AAC games being fast. No need to MM shield loss on building Markets, Courts, Libraries or any of that other garbage. Just set everything on military (mostly) and ! Mmmm, makes my mouth water. I think I'm going to have to play AAC again real soon.

 

[ControlFreak]

Open - Domination Victory in 790AD

Most of this was over in the ancient age. The most advanced civ was Spain who learned Invention a few turns before the end of the game.

My First Spoiler saw the elimination of Rome, triggering my GA, then elimination of Japan using ROP Rape.

Contacting the Second Continent
My first galley built saw what I thought to be sea tiles just out of reach. I made a gamble and his second turn on the waters ended on an ocean square. He survived and contacted the Ottomans ~170BC. They weren't ahead by much so I waited a bit to see if I could find some others. I found the Celts and traded TM's to get a feel for the land. I ended up buying English, Spanish and Iroquois contacts with gold or maps.

Technology
I held my literature monopoly and gained all other techs from the GLib. I kept research off (after Maxing to Republic) until I was in the middle ages, where I got Feudalism for free. I researched Engineering with a single scientist but ended up getting that from the GL also. I learned Invention with my single scientist. Spain only beat me by a few turns.

Wonders
Owning all but Oracle and Great Wall going into the Middle Ages, I started a prebuild for Sun's. However, I felt my conquest on the second continent would go faster if each captured city had a barracks, plus I had built a barracks already in my unit building cities and maintenance costs weren't bad. I planned to let the AI build Sun's or rush it with a leader myself. My Sun's prebuild ended up being Leo's but I never upgraded anything after it was completed (3 turns from the end).

Getting to the Second Continent
My suicide galley explored enough to know there were several safe passages with the Great Lighthouse. I had settled some spare land tightly spaced with some Celtic cities and culture bombed with a rushed library and temple. (I ended up flipping a Celtic city near the end. I had put four immortals and a pike in this first city but it wasn't a good launching point since it was so far from the crossing area.

Instead I rushed a few galleys and sent a strike force to Bursa to capture the Great Wall, and give me a friendly port near to the crossing area. I declared in 330AD from offshore, out of Ottoman territory. The 11 immortals and 1 pike overwhelmed the Ottomans defense, then hung tight on defense while I rushed a barracks. The round trip was 4 turns for the galleys and I had a lot of immortals left from the Roman/Japanese wars. The boats were constantly going back and fourth with full loads.

I had started a fake war with Spain and pulled in England and the Iroquois. I pulled the Celts in against the Ottomans just to keep everyone's units occupied.

I penetrated to the core of the Ottoman empire taking their second city, then their capital with the Oracle. They were pretty much done in 10 turns having their capital in the southern coast and two size one cities up north. I raise one of the northern cities before I realized I'd be better off getting for peace when my Celtic alliance expired in 540AD.

I had gotten a ROP with the Celts that was still active after the alliance ended so I settled for peace with the Ottomans for their remaining town and used the ROP to get troops to England faster. England broke our alliance early which was fine with me. In 570AD, I declared and pulled Spain in because at the time, England hadn't hooked up their Iron and was getting it from Spain (probably as part of their peace deal). I also got a ROP with Spain.

Re-enforcements coming from the South took out the Celts when our ROP expired. They were a real pushover without any iron, they didn't have any Unique Units. I left them one city in the jungle to keep the war happiness.

Double Leader Turn
630AD was a particularly lucky year. I hadn't gotten a leader all game to that point, but I got two this turn. After I got the first, I captured a Celtic town that was between my original city on this continent and where the leader was generated. He then ran back to the original city and rushed a new palace. The very next elite victory generated a second leader who would rush Sun Tsu's the next turn in the palace city. The added core was a huge benefit to my corruption numbers. Note that I purposely kept all celtic cities that did not autoraze to reduce the exploit of a remote palace.

Finishing the Dirty Way
I took two or three towns and was making my way toward London when Spain started making head way on the northern cities. With my Ottoman and Celtic holdings rushing libraries, I was close to domination. While my initial strike force kept pushing through London, the reenforcements used the ROP to set up one final rape of Spain. Six cities capture in 760AD and one more in 770AD brought me within 9 tiles of victory. Had I know, I would have settled some fishing villages to come in one turn earlier. Domination acheived with a settler and one more english city captured in 780AD. (Both Spain and I generated a leader on the last turn.)

My Good Fortune
There has been a lot of talk about bad luck in the first spoiler. I have had relatively little. A small list of the ways the RNG was kind to me.

• Rome warrior loses to my warrior, razing Veii.
• Roman archers losing my warrior protecting against sneak attack (One warrior had backup defender but the other didn't.)
• Galley survives first turn on the Ocean and makes the crossing on the second turn.
• My double leader turn got me a great double core and barracks in all captured towns on the second continent.
• I never had disease due to flood plains (one disease in a japanese town in the jungle).
• Ottomans got Engineering instead of Feudalism so no pikemen faced until England/Spain.

Guess I'll be making up for that next GOTM. Too bad I couldn't take advantage of my luck as well as some of the other players.

 

[Niklas]

Ptw, Open.
Going for Diplomacy.

Link to AA spoiler.

I entered the MA in 550 BC, being in the middle of my Golden Age and war with Rome. Free techs was a jackpot, I drew Engineering and Osman got Monotheism. My golden age lasted until 290 AD and helped me a great deal with the early MA research. Looking back at it, maybe the early MA is actually the ideal time to get a GA if you're going for diplomacy.

Wars:
I warred against three civs during the MA:

• My war against Rome was over in practice in 510 BC when my immortals captured Rome itself, but the mopping up lasted until 410 BC when I captured Antium, the new capitol. I made peace for all their remaining cities, leaving them to start anew on the large island off the coast (where they would last almost until the end). They hadn't connected any of their iron tiles, so I didn't face a single of the feared legions.
• After I captured the city of Rome, I left only a dozen or so immortals for the cleaning up and sent the rest back towards home and then further on towards Japan. The Japanese had built very few roads, and I had to cross the jungle to get at them, so the war took some time. It took until 320 AD to destroyed them. I thought Rome was an easy match, but Japan was even more pathetic. They had connected their iron and managed to procure one swordsman, but apart from that they hadn't even built spearmen!! I faced solely archers and warriors, I think I lost one immortal in the entire campaign.
• The crew that cleansed out former Rome returned to the homelands thinking they'd get a vacation. They couldn't have been more wrong. From 310 BC I started ship chaining immortals into the war zone between the Ottos and the Celts. I settled a town on the coast, and let my immortals joined Osman's cause. The first set that was sent over was too small to do any real damage, still what they did was crucial - disconnecting the Celtic iron. After that I withdrew, made peace and bided my time. When the 20 turns had passed I had amassed more immortals and in 450 AD the Celts were no more.

Wonders:
I built two wonders during the MA: Copernicus' (90 BC) and Newton's (390 AD), both in Persepolis. With these two Persepolis was making 104bpt in 390 AD.

Tech:
550 BC: Engineering (free tech)
550 BC: Monotheism (from Ottomans)
410 BC: Theology (researched, 7 turns (GA))
310 BC: Education (researched, 5 turns (GA))
150 BC: Astronomy (researched, 8 turns)
30 BC: Banking (researched, 6 turns)

Up until now I was still hoping that Osman would research Feudalism for me. One turn before Banking was completed he comes up with the tech he's been working on all this time - Monarcy!
From this point on I managed to maintain 4-turn research throughout the MA, no help from the AI. It was a close call several times, and I had to take the cheaper Metallurgy before going for Theory of Gravity and Newton's.

50 AD: Feudalism
130 AD: Invention
210 AD: Gunpowder
270 AD: Chemistry
310 AD: Physics
350 AD: Metallurgy
390 AD: Theory of Gravity
430 AD: Magnetism

Entered the IA in 430 AD. Assuming I could keep up 4-turn research through the IA I'd be looking at a newly built UN sometime 900-1100 AD (depending on luck with free techs). The world at 430 AD:

Off we go...

 

[civ_steve]

Just a quick note. I'm hoping to finish my 100K game, with just over a day to go (it will be close); and I should beat my best earlier date, but I'm nowhere near to Bremp's finish! (Isn't 1170 AD the date that Dynamic did for Cotm10?)

I've stayed in Depostism, which I now believe to be a mistake; not only does it delay me reaching the IA, but the AI decided to research Republic and Monarchy before researching any medieval Techs, further slowing my research down. My Free Tech was Monotheism (good!), and the Ottomans was Feudalism. I powered along the Upper Tech path to Navigation, then shut off research until somebody learned Engineering. Eventually I did get a AI researched Engineering, and Invention, and later Banking (of the required Techs). I researched the rest entering the IA in 640 AD (roughly 10,000 culture and 300 cpt).

I've stayed on my original Continent, and have been populating it after disposing of the other 'inhabitants'. Archeologists from the other continent have traveled to my continent, marveling at the ruins left behind by two different active vibrant cultures, who suddenly disappeared. "What happened to these two races", they ask. "Must have been a sudden disaster that struck them; it's a mystery to us", we reply. Rome gone around 200 AD, and that last Japanese Settler on a boat in 460 AD. Japan did give me a GL, which I used to rush the FP in Rome; I rather liked the RCP 5 ring I have going, and didn't want to mess it up by jumping the Palace, and this way I didn't have to. Hope to at least finish; we'll see (hmm, Taxes ... Civ3, hmm)

 

[Paul#42]

Open Game, going for 100k.
Ancient Times

Research
370 Theology
440 Education
500 Astronomy
550 Navigation
590 Banking
630 Economics
670 Chemistry
710 Metallurgy. Full speed to Cavalry.
750 Military Tradition. Disconnect saltpeter to build more horsemen to upgrade.
790 Pysics
830 Magnetism
870 Theory of Gravity, entering the Industrial Ages!
We get Steam Power for free!!


Japanese war
around 300 AD
Declare war on Japan.
360 We get a leader!!! He builds an immortal army.
390 With Japan down to two cities, we decide about the next victim. We need horses.
The NE-area of the other continent has horses under one of three spread ottoman cities.
We will fight them first, signing in the Celts. Then built knights and conquer the rest.
Best port for transfer is from Gordium on our SW-edge. It takes 8 turns to ship to target area.
410 We get another leader. Save him for palace jump?!? That would mean 40 turns without getting another...
420 create another army by mistake. Wanted to rush Leonardo's and pressed 'b'...
assimilated Japan. They threatened to capture a undefended city.

British war
We decide not to attack Ottomans because they offer much gold for luxuries.
540 Declare on English, sign in Spanish and Iroquois for Monarchy.
550 Capture British Liverpool.
640 Capture British Warwick, getting a leader. He shall build a wonder. Next is for Palace Jump.
650 Ottomans pay good for my luxuries - They shall survive... ;o)
710 Rushed Palace in Ex-British York.
740 Capture London. English down to four towns.
750 Make peace with England for a city.
Later Spain inished the job.

Ottomaniac war
810 50 horsemen build, now hook up saltpeter again to upgrade to cavalry.
Switch building orders to culture.
IBT Sneak attack by ottomans! They raze one unguarded town. Immediatly sign in Iroquois for luxes.
820 First attack on Otto generates a leader! He rushes Magellan. Sign in Celts against Ottos.

on pace for 100k. Immortals are so slow - time for cavalry!