GOTM 42 Final Spoiler

Space ship loss in 1868 to Mali. I was on track to finish in the early 1900's.

Fun but frustrating game. I was especially proud of my double cow + rice city great person / econ city. At the end it was running 7 merchants and had 5 settled merchants and prophets as well as a shrine. With wall street I could run 100% science and still turn a prophet. Of course the fact that I was paying upwards of 200gpt for resources was a bit of a economic drain.


Several mistakes which probably could have made the game winnable.

While I was able to contact England early, I never built a city over their to border pop and allow trade.

I could have chopped Broadway and missed it by 2 turns. Buying luxuries is expensive.

Should have built oxford and the globe in the flood plains city to the north east. It would have taken a while but the capitol had less population and could not run as many scientists.

I had a chance to bribe Mali into a war with France. I should have done this to slow down his tech speed. But after waiting a few turns Mali would no longer take me up on the offer. I was able to get Germany into a war (thinking he would drag in his best buddy Mali) This however never panned out and I ended up losing access to aluminum (was pillaged) which I had been buying from Bismarck.
 
So I tried a few replays with the goal of running a conquest based specialist economy. My thinking was to build the oracle for CoL and build the pyramids (using the nearby stone) to enable representation. Was anybody able to pull something like this off?

I can get the oracle pretty consistently but never the pyramids.

My thinking was to invade the English/Indian island with elephants and catapults. And continue form there with cossacks. But without the pyramids the tech rate is just so damn slow. Right now it looks like the best I can do is to get a moderate stack of elephants over the channel by about 1200AD. At this rate I could probably only take out India by 1400 to 1500 - which is not very good.
 
What an abysmal showing :vomit:

Damn near lost my capital to am early three barb rush around (2770 BC). They did serious damage though, unhooked my horses. It then took me 20 turns to build enough warriors to get control and repasture the horses. This set me way behind, resulted in missing Pyramids by one turn :mad:.

Decided to go for diplo, built UN in 1786. However, could never get enough votes to win. Ghandi had too much pop, then the deal was sealed when Mansa went into a defensive pact with him. Between them, they had enough pop to block me. I decided to keep playing to see if I could capture an ambulance. Space loss in 1866.
 
It is possible to get the oracle, found confu, and build the pyramids!

In another replay I settled 2 east and sent the scout to the north east corner to fog bust.

My build order was something like worker, warrior, warrior, archer, chariot, chariot, archer, ... (mostly archers and a few warriors to fog bust where there was a low chance of death).

My worker order was horse, pigs, elephants, and then then mined the sheep.

For tech I went: AH, wheel, archery, myst, meditation, priest, writing, CoL (from the oracle), Masonry, bronze,

As I said before, getting the oracle was not too tricky, the hard part was building the pyramids. I did not build any other cities until after I built the oracle, this kept my science rate higher. Then built a settler to build a city one east of stone. I had previously built a second worker and used this to pre build the road to the city site as well as build some roads around the capitol's forests. I built the city no the same turn the I got masonry and immediately started building the quarry.

While I began working on the pyramids right away, I actually had most of the city running as scientists so that I could speed along bronze as I would need some chops to help build the pyramids. Also it did not make sense to invest hammers when I was not getting the bonus from stone. This also helped me pop a Great Prophet in record time. Out of habit I almost built the shrine - but with only 2 cites the +5 gold +2 hammers from a settled GP made much more sense.

The extra gold let me run a higher research rate and I teched bronze in just enough time to do 3 worker chops in the forests I had prebuilt roads in.

I got the pyramids in 550BC which I think would open up a number of victory conditions much early. In the short term running representation makes the most sense, but later on monarchy may be better.
 
Conquest victory 1893AD

I was aiming for the conquest portion of my eptathalon from turn one but this map was not meant for military victories. I had a reasonable start and turned it into a long grind.

Mansa, Liz, and Gandhi all came to visit around 750AD. They were all friendly and trading their way up the tech tree. I was able to lightbulb education and trade my way up toward Liberalism and Astronomy. I got too fancy and tried to get Chemistry with Liberalism and lost the race to Liz by one turn. Traded Chemistry to Mansa for Astro and started fighting in the 1500s.

First target - Bismark. He's backwards and has iron and silver so I sweep in with grenadiers and catapults to cripple him. I had to sign a peace treaty before I took his silver mine city. He had a big stack of knights sitting outside Munich and my stack of grenadiers was mauled taking the city. So, one out of two goals achieved.

Mansa has rifles so I attack Liz next. I quickly take half the English empire with cannons and grenadiers against bows and knights. This achieved all my goals - I crippled one of the three tech traders, grabbed access to some luxury resources, and set up several high production cities with no cultural problems. I now control all the dye in the world and can trade for other luxury resources. Gandhi has rifles as well so Louis is the next target of opportunity - he has a few good production cities. I have switched to State Property and built lots of workshops by this point.

I have a failed war with Mansa in the 1700s. I didn't realize he had combustion and his destroyers prevented reinforcements from reaching the front. I take a couple of cities and quickly sign a ceasefire before he overwhelms my stack. I have a short period of peace while I research for tanks, airplanes, and Fascism. One final revolt to Police State and all war. First, I cripple Mansa and Gandhi before they reach Robotics and build Mech Infantry then a run around the world destroying everything. There were so many iceball cities that this took forever.

This was a very long game in real life since this map was really not setup for military victories. I'll call it an attempt to hit them where they ain't.
 
Well done Robert.

If I may ask, when you started your warring how large was your invasion force? The low production made it really difficult to build up a respectable military.
 
Well done Robert.

If I may ask, when you started your warring how large was your invasion force? The low production made it really difficult to build up a respectable military.

I didn't have a very large invasion force when I started, 7 grenadiers, 4 galleons, 3 elephants and about 18 catapults. Bizmarck had a very small army as well - two or three defenders per city and two stacks of ~10 knights, elephants and maces. I lost a few catapults killing the first stack and took five cities before declaring a ceasefire to avoid his second stack. Most of my losses during this war were catapults.

My production wasn't too bad at the start of the war. I had 9 cities on the home continent. Four of the cities were surrounded with workshops (I had traded for Guilds and researched Chemistry so a grassland workshop was the equivalent of a grassland hill mine) including my capital which had the HE. I could produce close to a grenadier per turn. Ships were whipped in coastal science cities. I fell behind Gandhi and Mansa but was able to beeline important military techs. Happiness and commerce were the big problem in the early game. I couldn't afford to run the culture slider very high or to reserve production during the wars as garrison units. I had to fight short wars until after I had researched Fascism. I was flirting with strikes when I finally finished researching Communism and switched to State Property.

Once I controlled production areas in France, England and Germany; I could just overwhelm the AI with production.
 
500 AD: Library in Moscow due next turn. Hsung-Nu (which has pretty good production) due in 3. Moving workers to chop the libraries in St. Pete and Novgorod. Defense is low, but I haven't had a barb attack since the BC era. Economy sucks but is recovering. Will probably head for a cultural victory. This will allow me to ignore optics/astro (which is vastly out of reach at current research rate) and allow other civs to come to me. Stats: killed 43 warriors, 17 archers, 2 axes and a handful of animals. Lost 6 chariots (4 capturing Hsung-Nu, 2 exploring the SW sub-continent which is still dark), 3 warriors, 0 archers. I feel vindicated in my choice to research Archery, though I probably should have paid more attention to the economy after founding St. Pete.

Spoiler :
620 AD: Rostov founded in the SE between the pigs and the hill. This isn't a fantastic site, but it maximizes the cultural coverage and allows me to retire two fog-busters. Pottery due in 1 turn for badly needed cottages. I would dearly love to tech toward Math and Construction to improve my military and wipe out the barbarian sub-continent to the SW but I need the happiness from Monarchy more. Libraries are coming online and I slowly allocate pop to scientists, which improves my tech rate but further undercuts my struggling economy. The difficulty now is that I really can't afford more troops, but I am running out of things to build. I do need workers, however, and Pottery will allow granaries so the situation is not hopeless yet. This game has generated a very strange set of priorities!

695 AD: Xi Ling Shi (GS) is born in Moscow. Never heard of him. He wants to bulb Math (Gahh! Don't tease me, bro!) but I chose an academy in Moscow instead. This knocks a couple of turns off Meditation and an unknown number off Priesthood and Monarchy. Plus it is good for culture. I wish I could make contact with another civ and possibly get some religions in here. It is very strange to be researching religious techs but completely unable to build the buildings they allow.

755 AD: Meditation

830 AD: Priesthood. The next turn my units go on strike! Wah?? Oh, I see. Rostov increased my maintenance but I neglected to adjust my production to keep the balance positive. Major blunder! I lose a fog busting warrior but I am able to readjust my troops using DanF5771's fog-busting tips (thanks Yamps!) so I don't actually lose any coverage. I look around for other places where I can make the fog busting more efficient but things are already pretty sparse. One warrior to the N is lighting only 3 tiles, but I can't move him inside my borders without leaving at least one tile uncovered even with my new knowledge. I might consider it since I need cash more than security at this point.

1070 AD: Nabu-rimanni (GS) born in Hsung-Nu. Deciding what to do with him is difficult. Building another academy will only contribute 4 cpt (since it will never double). Even assuming maximum multipliers that barely exceeds the equivalent of a culture bomb if the game lasts the entire 422 turns remaining. The generated science will of 4 bpt at current research rates will equal the value of bulbing Math in 146 turns. Long term, this is a good deal since I am pretty sure the game will last substantially longer than that, but this is not particularly promising. On the other hand, Math is necessary for Music and bulbing it will save 14 turns immediately plus clear the deck for the next GS to bulb something more interesting. (I will be running scientists for quite a while until I get to Liberalism so I am pretty sure I will waste at least two or three more on Great Persons on GS rather than GA. Might as well make them useful). Of course I could settle the GS in Moscow and make 10 bpt at current rates but that still takes 50+ turns to pay for Math. Reluctantly, I bulb Math since I really need some short-term savings rather than long-term benefits at this point. *Sigh* (In calculating all of this, I realize that I should have gotten Priesthood through Polytheism rather than Meditation, since I will need the former for Literature and the NE. ) *Double Sigh* Rostov's border pops which allows me to retire a fog-buster. Monarchy due in 6.

1100 AD: Liz sails past St. Petersburg. She is the founder of Hinduism. I immediately open borders with her for diplo bonuses and the faint hope that she will send missionaries my way. Of course I have no techs to trade and we cannot trade resources yet.

1118 AD: Monarchy finally in. Revolt to HR. Now that the happy cap is effectively gone, I can begin growing my cities to a profitable size. Unfortunately, I need to detour to Sailing so my coastal cities can work their many coast tiles. In a normal game I would have traded for this long ago. Moscow pops a border in 1130 but this does nothing for my fog-busting situation.

1190 AD: Euclid born in Moscow. He can bulb Alphabet which is what I am currently researching saving me 12 turns and a little less than 500 beakers. A slightly worse deal than that for Math but I still need the short-term boost. Cottages are starting to turn into hamlets and villages. The delayed development of this game is almost like playing a Medieval start, but without the free early techs.

1280 AD: Drama finally in. Moscow, St. Pete and Hsung-Nu begin producing Theater. Yaroslavl' founded in the NE directly N of the cows. This wastes a clam, but the alternative would be founding on the mini-peninsula and trading 3 ocean tiles for 3 grassland forests. No-brainer. Teching toward Music, which Liz doesn't have so perhaps no one else does either? Fat chance, but not no chance.

1418 Ad: Music in. I am not the first to discover it (no big surprise) but I did get it before Liz and evidently before she even began researching it. She is willing to trade me Polytheism, Code of Laws, Masonry, Iron Working and 210 gp for it. I try renegotiating the last three since they are not that useful to me, but she won't agree to any other deals. As I pretty much knew, no Iron on the continent or on the barb sub-continent. Well, masonry is useful for Construction, but that is a ways away since I still need to tech to Liberalism. No one has discovered it yet, but I am sure I am pretty much out of the race. At least building a bunch of courthouses will help with the finances, though my cities are fairly close by so not as much help as usual.

1430 AD: Aryabatta (GS) born in Hsung-Nu. He bulbs philosophy. Since I have no religion, it would be meaningless to revolt to Pacifism and very expensive. Liz pops in asking to trade banana for my extra ivory. I renegotiate for her dye which gives me 2 extra happiness in all cities with Theater (which is most of them). Nice.

1460 AD: Islam spontaneously spreads to Novgorod! Not the religion I was expecting but I’ll take it. Monastery on the way (unfortunately, this is one of the worst cities for production).

1490 AD: Mansa Musa shows up. Of course I have no techs to trade with him, but I do open borders since he is Christian and I hope he sends missionaries. (Being spiritual, he is somewhat more likely to do so than Liz). He also is willing to trade copper for my horses. Definitely worthwhile as I have more than enough chariots and could really uses some axes.

1535 AD: Liz discovers Liberalism. Oh, well. Next turn Hinduism spreads spontaneously to Hsung-Nu. Very nice.

1541 AD: Al-Razi (GS) born in Moscow. He wants to bulb Compass, which I have no use for and which will lead me down the Optics path. I will keep him until CS comes in when I can use him to bulb Paper.

1571 AD: Civil Service in. I immediately revolt to Bureaucracy. Consider Caste System as well, but that will increase my civic cost and I don't really have the extra population to make full use of it at the moment. Will wait until Liberalism comes in then do a FS-CS-Pacifism trifecta. Al-Razi wakes from his 30 year sleep to invent Paper. All 23 culture cities have Islam. Founded Yekaterinburg in the SE next to the Deer and Crabs. This will provide 2 health points, which Hsung-Nu could really use. This will be a commerce only city. Looking at taking over the barb sub continent to the SW at long last. The city has 3 Longbows so it will be a blood-bath without cats. (Also, the city is well placed for Deer, Clams and Sheep, but it will not allow access to the Marble which was my main goal in this area.) I ask Mansa nicely if he can spare it for a good friend but no-can-do. He will give me 100 gp for my world map and Liz will give me 80. Might be a worthwhile deal as it will allow me to run at a deficit for the final push to liberalism. Will consider it after the anarchy is over.

1577 AD: Louis appears off the NW peninsula. He is annoyed because I traded with Mansa (how the devil does he know who I traded with.) He doesn't have paper yet but he is unwilling to trade with me. In other great news, Liz has planted Birmingham on that same peninsula right where I was planning on putting my next settler. I could theoretically take it back with my culture, but that might not happen before the end of the game. The good news, such as it is, is that I get a foreign trade route from the deal worth 2 gpt.

1601 AD: Judaism spreads spontaneously to Yaroslavl'. Very nice. Yekaterinburg could have used the religion more, but there are now 3 religions to choose from. My settler reaches the Stone on the SW sandbar. It is a blue circle, which is an intriguing idea, but I think I will transport him by boat to settle near the Marble. This will also have the advantage of putting cultural pressure on the barb city. I doubt I will be able to take it any other way as the longbows have taken 3 of my troops by making sorties while I was still approaching the city. I now have two axes on the forest hill E of the city, so this won't be a problem in the future, but the sorties allowed the barbs to promote. It will take far to much military power to take that city, and I can't afford the expense. Culture from Novgorod surrounds Birmingham on 3 sides and the city drops to 13% English. Even better, Liz has no hammers within reach so she cannot build either cultural buildings or garrison troops. That city should be mine in short order, saving me the cost of the Settler. I notice that I can trade Ivory to Louis and he gives me 12 gpt for it. Wow! I think that is the most profitable resource trade I have ever made.

1604 AD: Kepler born in St. Pete. He bulbs most of Education, leaving 1 turn left. Perfect. Next turn Liberalism due in 22 which I can drop to 19 by running a deficit. I won't be able to bulb that, though, since Compass is in the way.

1616 AD: Birmingham is revolting. Next turn Louis drops from annoyed to cautious. He is now willing to trade Paper for Construction, Monotheism and 150 gp. The turn after that, he trades Education for Feudalism, Currency, Metal Casting, his World Map and 10 gp. I immediately resell my new World Map to Mansa and Liz for 120 gp each. Nice. I can now see (but not contact) China, Germany and India. Mansa and Liz are both building cities in my SW subcontinent. May be able to flip them.

1619 AD: Trade Paper for Monotheism, Construction, Metal Casting, Feudalism and Currency to Louis and Bismarck. Also about 500 gp.

1625 AD: Birmingham flips bringing a shiny new longbow. It is Jewish, so I don't get any new religion, but at least it has culture. Disaster on the subcontinent! My escort of 3 axes are attacked while crossing open ground by 2 wandering barb axes and all 3 defenders from the city. I manage to kill the axes and 1 longbow, but 2 of my escorts die and the third is gravely wounded. I heal by promoting to Cover and send the settler on ahead, but it doesn't work. One of the longbows either was unhurt or fully healed and attacks me via the roads on the deer tile. Now my settler has nowhere to go and no defense against a wounded but still living longbow. I will lose the city next turn and I can't whip any defenses. So I gift the city to Mansa who is running Universal Suffrage. With any luck he will have the brains to buy defenses and keep the city. I don't hear any reports about the city being sacked and the tile still shows as Malinese next turn, so perhaps it worked. Now that the barb city is largely depopulated, I shouldn't have as much trouble taking it with a few cats, once I can get them down there. Well, that settler was originally intended to settle where Birmingham is so I haven't lost anything (except a company of axes and a lot of time). And the barb city is well placed to flip both of Mansa's cities and Liz's one, so this may actually work out well.

1643 AD: Mansa cancels the copper for horses deal. Bastard! I just gave you a fricken city! Looking at the trade screen I see that he is still willing to trade copper, so I increase the price to horse plus 7 gpt and he accepts. Jerk. Qin appears out of the E and he is annoyed with me for trading with his worst enemy (evidently Mansa). I trade him my crab, which I don't currently need, for 6 gpt. I have lots of technologies to trade with him, so I really need him to drop down to cautious.

1649 AD: Liberalism discovered. Revolt to Free Speech, Caste System and Pacifism. Louis and Bismarck are still behind on the Education-Liberalism path, so over the next few turns I trade for Calendar, Horseback, Machinery, Compass, Optics, Gunpowder, Engineering, Guilds and another 400 gp. My treasury is now over 1000 and I can afford to run at 60% culture for many turns.

1730 AD: Circassian (the barb city in the SW tundra) captured by 3 cats 4 axes and a horse archer. Didn't actually need two of the axes.

1744 AD: Nationalism discovered. Next turn I trade it around for Theology, Banking and Astronomy to my backward neighbors (of whom Qin has become one, having dropped from annoyed to cautious).

1778 AD: Mansa spontaneously offers me Military Tradition for free. Circassian is putting cultural pressure on Mansa's two cities in the subcontinent: Yarkutsk and Yaria. Vladivostok founded next turn to put even more cultural pressure on Yarkutsk. Begin working the marble, but I will need another city there before it will be available to my capital because it has no route. In following turns I trade Military Tradition for the remainder of Printing Press, Constitution and Divine Right.

1827 AD: Buddhism spreads to Vladivostok. It will be a problem spreading this religion since I only have 3 hammers available to that city. Still worth the effort if I can get some extra cathedrals in my culture cities. Smolensk founded next to the marble which cuts production on both Islamic and Hindu cathedrals. Chemistry discovered but I have no one to trade it to.

1840 AD: My plan was to put a settler on the small island between the stone and Yaria, but the latter's culture expands the very turn my settler lands. Grr.

1844 AD: I found Orenburg on the tundra hill to the S. This won't help with flipping Yaria, but it will at least reclaim that island and allow me to work the fish. I would rather have founded on the forest tundra 1E of that hill, but Qin has a city 2 tiles away on the isthmus hill. Double grr. Mansa Musa completes the Apollo Program. My cultural progress is good, but might not be enough to beat him to the finish line. No one is interested in going to war with him, so I will just have to fight it out. Buddhism fails to spread in Circassian (frustrating, since I deliberately delayed spreading other religions there to make it easier).

1856 AD: Taoism spreads to Orenburg. Production low, so I doubt if I will get any useful cathedrals out of this, but no harm in trying.

1868 AD: Buddhism finally spreads in Circassian. Mansa is going gang-busters on the spaceship. Don't know if I will even get any Buddhist cathedrals and, if I do, it will probably not help much. Gandhi is also working on the spaceship, though I didn't notice when he completed Apollo.


1879 AD: Disaster! Liz, my best trading partner, who has been completely peaceful the whole game, decides to declare war with me. She lands 6 gunships and 6 artillery near Birmingham (which is defended by a single archer). I have 0 hope of surviving this war so I immediately retire before my score drops. What a waste of an otherwise exciting game.
 
JackOfClubs - disaster indeed! How frustrating. Thanks for the write up, interesting to read :goodjob:

When you gift a city, the receiver gets garrison units.
 
JackOfClubs - disaster indeed! How frustrating. Thanks for the write up, interesting to read :goodjob:

When you gift a city, the receiver gets garrison units.

Wow... even if totally undefended? You can gift it to your vassal even? Neat trick!
 
In Vanilla, you do not have vassals.
In Warlords, you cannot gift cities to vassals,
In BtS, you can only liberate cities.
 
In Vanilla, you do not have vassals.
In Warlords, you cannot gift cities to vassals,
In BtS, you can only liberate cities.


But you can "liberate" cities to create a colony in BTS, right? IIRC they get a garrison of two of your current defensive unit. Kind of like gifting to a vassal ...

Speaking of which ... is there supposed to be some button in the F1 screen to liberate a colony? or some keystroke combination? I can never remember what it is, and it never seems easy to find when I go looking for it.

dV
 
In BTS you liberate cities by clicking on the icon in the lower right on the domestic screen (F1). The icon looks like a fist. Once you have two cities on another continent, you can create a colony (similar to vassal). You can also liberate individual cities to nearby AI. You can also gift cities as usual in BTS.
 
In BTS you liberate cities by clicking on the icon in the lower right on the domestic screen (F1). The icon looks like a fist. Once you have two cities on another continent, you can create a colony (similar to vassal). You can also liberate individual cities to nearby AI. You can also gift cities as usual in BTS.
Thanks for the info ...

Since we are rehashing these details, you can only have one colony per continent, right?

In mechanics, colony is similar to vassal ... but one really nice difference (IIRC):

Colony is a vassal who loves you :love: while

Vassal from capitulation is a vassal who hates you :mad:

dV
 
Thanks for the info ...

Since we are rehashing these details, you can only have one colony per continent, right?

In mechanics, colony is similar to vassal ... but one really nice difference (IIRC):

Colony is a vassal who loves you :love: while

Vassal from capitulation is a vassal who hates you :mad:

dV
Even the vassal that starts out hating you, can love you in the end! It just takes a bit of time.
 
Mansa beat me to a Space victory in 1879, a mere handful of turns before I would have finished the last two spaceship parts. :(

Was pretty irritating as I thought I had him. The start was slow for me as it was for everyone, because of barbs and no luxuries. I decided to try and eke out a Civ on my continent though and had 12 cities packed in by 1200-1300. I was first to printing press and scientific method, and later nabbed SoL so thought I was ok. Mansa was teching slower than me all the way up about the early/mid 1800s or so (because some late cottages were still maturing), when my decision to stick on the island started to bite. I couldn't reel him in at the end. :cry:

I think the key mistake was not exploring enough early on. I didn't get trades going with Lizzy and Mansa till quite late when they found me, and astronomy when it came boosted my gold by about 35 gpt. And a couple more cities would have been nice.

Interesting to see the thoughts on replays. Pretty much all of my research early on came from scientists and settled scientists, so rep from Pyramids using the stone would have been nice. It was built late in my game. But the key civic in that group was Monarchy (which I ran as soon as I had it right to the end of the game) so not sure how much time could have been spent in rep. So I think the key is colonising some of the other islands.
 
Retired due to lack of time in 1625AD in a winning position.

As of 500AD, I had settled the entire green area of the island, built Pyramids, built GLib+NE in my GP farm and nearly researched Civil Service.
I was running a healthy Representation + Culture Slider economy.

I teched happily, until Liz showed up with a Caravel in 1124AD, and I was first to Astro in 1322AD.

Liberalism->MilTrad, and I poprushed a couple dozen Cossacks and used cash to upgrade galleys to galleons.

By the time I retired in 1625, I had captured most of France and England, including the Great Lighthouse and three shrines.
 
lol i gave up and died basically :)
that was fun though
until people found me and i realized i had no shot at getting astro first -_-"
 
Formerly known as ZPVCSPLFUIFDPEF.
It's pronounced "Zupp-flui-depff"


No its not ... :lol:

It is pronounced "zup-viks-plu-fui-f'dep-ef" ... if you are German ...

It is pronounced "Zhou" ... if you are French ...


:joke:

dV
 
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