GOTM 42 First Spoiler: End Of Ancient Age

I started out well. I expanded along the NW coast towards egypt.

By the time I had 4 or 5 towns I caught a wandering egyptian warrior/settler combo in the sights of my archer and I opened fire. This was an archer/spearman war.

This early war initially went very well. Tons of egyptian soldiers died. I destroyed one of their towns. Then in 1225BC I got a great leader from an elite spearman. Stupidly I built te Great Lighthouse instead of the pyramids. But,that was OK.

Next, I knew that thebes was building the oracle. I thought I would capture it. But, I did it all wrong. Instead of waiting until I had a force of about 10 archers, I sent them in peacemeal in 1s and 2s and lost them all. Wen I realised what I had done, I quit with out saving.
 
budweiser said:
Next, I knew that thebes was building the oracle. I thought I would capture it. But, I did it all wrong. Instead of waiting until I had a force of about 10 archers, I sent them in peacemeal in 1s and 2s and lost them all. Wen I realised what I had done, I quit with out saving.
don't you want to revenge the death of those archers?
 
Interesting. So far I'm the only poster who settled at 4000 BC. I wonder how it will all shake out :hmm:
 
AlanH said:
Interesting. So far I'm the only poster who settled at 4000 BC. I wonder how it will all shake out :hmm:
I settled at 4000 BC as well, detailed spoiler is coming soon
 
@Ronald: That puts me in exalted company! I'll be interested to see whether our logic matches in any way, however, I suspect that's the last point at which our games bear any similarity :rolleyes:
 
As someone who isn't planning to play this one, it's pretty cool to see what you all did with that start. I have no idea what I'd have done. Well, "build military" is a given. :)

Renata
 
Vanilla, conquest

After having played hundreds of CIV II games, I recently started trying III. Never having won at emperor level, I decided to join the easiest class. Being very careful I decided to settle on the hill for the extra defense, while sending my two spearmen exploring.

Exploring

4000
sent spearman1 W and spearman2 S. So, no second lake, but we're near the coast! sent settler and worker NE
3950
spearman1 goes south to look for fish. No fish spearman2 starts his walk around the lake. settler + worker go N
3900
sent worker N and definately decide to settle on the hill
3850
Rome built on the hill.
worker starts building a road on grasstile
both spearmen start walking north
Research pottery
3650
An Egyptian warrior approaches us from the north
We trade Alphabet, 2gpt + 45 g and get masonry and ceremonial burial
3600
worker starts mining the winehill. spearman2 fortifies in Rome
3500
boundaries of Egypt become visible
3350
Rome expands. Egypt has 2 warriors exploring the area
Built warrior which starts exploring eastwards. Start prebuilding barracks
3250
contours of our island slowly get form
it seems we're on a small island with only Cleopatra as our neighbour.
3200
We're not alone, some guy who calls himself 'NeoCartagean' approaches us in the NE, past Egypt. They don't have jack to trade. By now, we located two sources of spice.
3150
Egypt is expanding east, Memphis founded next to spice source.
3000
The Largest Nations of the world:
1 Egypt
2-6 Greece, Russia, Aztek, Viking, Keltoi
7 Carthage
8 THE HOPELESS ROMANS...
2900 All jungle has been defogged
2750 Pottery researched, start writing. Rome grows to 3, disorder!
2670 We discover the outlines of Cartagean territory
2470
our workers completed a road to bring wines into Rome
We discover fish+whales nearby. The whole southern end of the island has been defogged now. The towelreference is completely ungraspable.

Egypt approaches, Roman expansion phase starts

2270
Those nasty Egyptians found Elephantine 4NE4N from Rome
This is going all wrong... Next turn settler will be ready in 1 turn. We need to prepare a strategy of how to deal with Egypt.

I'd post a screendump here if I only knew how.

2190 Veii founded on the shore 2NW1W from Rome. Start building barracks
1725
Next settler built in Rome, going to settle on the spice to secure it.
The next few turns Rome wil start dropping settlers, Veii will produce spearmen.
1600
Egyptians founded Alexandria 3E1NE from Rome... We found Antium on the spice, start building walls
1475
Fourth settler ready, heads towards Elephantine. Meanwhile the Carthageans are spreading like the flu
1400 Cumae founded, start building walls
1375
It seems Egypt is blocking the way to the rest of the island... Greece is located there, maybe more.
1350
Finished walls of Antium, start building Temple. One or two more cities and then we'll start the attack on Egypt.
1250
The most powerful nations of the world:
1 Vikings
2 Egypt
3 Greece
4 Carthage
5-7 Russia, Keltoi, Aztec
8 THE FORGOTTEN ROMANS...
1175 Neapolis founded next to Alexandria
1150 Athens completes the Pyramids
1100 Moscow completes the Oracle
1025 disease in Antium
1000
traded world map for Egyptian territory map
They have 9 cities, Carthage 7, we 5
875
Pompeii founded on the southern coast near the fish and whale
Cleopatra starts bullying, we give her all our cash [12gold]
650 Pisa founded in the SE corner, last before the war
410 Kiev builds the Colossus

the first attack on Egypt

Around this time I decide to attack Egypt, based on the assumption that noone has any iron. Two turns after my initial attack two Egyptian swordsmen appear. With some luck and AI-stupidity we manage to fight them of with one spearman behind walls. We conquer Elephantine.

150 Thebes builds the Great Library. With Thebes, my problems would be gone, as I am 4 or 5 techs behind.

Interbellum

110
Peace negotiated, we get Mapmaking, Iron Working and their world map for it after we threw in our world map, and some cash. I see the iron now and don't have any idea as to why there was any mentioning of it not being generated by the map. Probably just to annoy us :) The peace will be temporary, because I want Thebes. From now, I will work towards this goal.

Rome's Golden Age

440
The time has come to attack again, with 11 legionary's and 5 archers. I am lucky; the Greeks have weakened Thebes with their knights.
Egypt will not make it to the industrial age... Thebes falls in Roman hands in the first attack, starting a Golden age for Rome.
450 The Great Lib yielded all 4 remaining AA techs + 5 MA techs.
460 The discovery of Education ends the fun, we were right on time!
480
Cleopatra comes crawling, begging for peace.
We give her peace and get 2 cities for it.
Egypt is left with 5 towns size 4.

We now have 14 towns avg. size 4/5; Carthage has 12 of average size 8. Greece is the superpower (15, but the majority is size 11/12 and they have loads of knights)

Short-term goals

1) republic, FP in Thebes (I still need to get some knowledge about free palace jumps and how to quickly set up a 2nd core and stuff)
2) keeping a good relationship with Greece
3) mopping up the Egyptian towns
4) explore the sea, see what's out there

Conclusions

I reached AA very late (440 AD), but I am not too far behind Greece after the Great Lib boni <- Latin plural for bonus, we keep things Roman :). We were very lucky with the attack of Greece no Egypt, the lack of barbs and the just-in-time conquest of Thebes.
 
Redbad said:
Next turn we abandon Rome and Thebes (which is renamed to Rome) becomes the new capitol.
:thumbsup: Awesome! a superior move. I think this should give you a remarkable advantage. I'm really curious if you can transform it into a superior game.

You've got a new fan. :)
 
I actually did that too. Only i left it much later than RedBad so the effect wasnt so great :( . i also used a GL to rush the FP on the south near the old Capitol wich resulted in a very balanced game. Corruption was not a problem even choosing Monarchy instead of Republic :)
 
I was planning on shifting my capital to Thebes as soon as I took it down. Pity it took me a little longer than I'd originally hoped for :(
 
(Vanilla predator)

The granaries of Rome

Early in the morning Caesar woke to the bustle of his camp. He left his tent, and looked around.
Just ahead of him, the heavy armour of the Legionaries of the First Roman Army glittered in the bright sunlight. His eyes wandered to the right. In the distance the contours of Elephantine were vaguely visible. Deep down in the valley he could see the river Rubicon that had so long been the boundary with Egypt, but that Cleopatra now claimed was hers, and hers alone.
It was this insolence, and Cleopatra's insatiable thirst for gold, Roman gold, that has caused the crisis that was about to unfold. The glory of Rome demanded the downfall of Egypt.

zyxy_GOTM42_Egyptian_Battle_Plan_950BC.jpg


His attention turned to the battleplan. It was flawless. The initial strike would be against Elephantine, and an attack on the iron mines of Memphis would be imperative. But the main prize was Thebes, the proud capital. Ah, Thebes.... Blessed with fertile lands and abundant wildlife, Thebes was the driving force behind the quick expansion of the Egyptian empire. It woudl supply the Roman empire with the food it needed to grow, more effectively than the granary of Rome ever could. Egypt would be the granary of Rome from now on.

A deep rumble behind him announced the approach of the artillery. Four groups of sturdy catapults, drawn by oxen, the latest development in siege warfare, came moving down the hill of Antium. Behind the catapults was the garrison city of Antium, and behind that, on the other side of the hill, was Rome.

zyxy_GOTM42_Rome_1325BC.jpg


Rome, city of wine and water. It was not founded in a day. His people had wandered the desert for 100 years before finding this spot. After the construction of the Roman Granary, the people had peacefully colonized the area around Rome, founding the cities of Veii, Antium, Cumae, Neapolis...
until it became clear that Egypt would block further peaceful expansion. In 2450 A.U.C. Cleopatra extorted 28 gold from a defenceless people and that was the trigger. Barracks were constructed, and the Romans trained to become fearsome warriors. The exploitation of iron deposits near Cumae, that started some 50 years ago, supplied them with the improved weapons and armor that would be needed against Egypt.

Caesar beckoned his atjutant. Orders were shouted. They would march in one hour, cross the Rubicon by noon, and set up camp on the hill near Elephantine in the evening. From there the catapults could easily fire into the town, and the camp could easily be protected at night. Yes, his plan was flawless.
The year 2950 A.U.C. would go down in history as the start of the ascendancy of Rome.

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A question of leadership

The campaign was going well. The Roman people enthusiastically supported the war effort, working harder than ever. Elephantine, Thebes and Memphis had fallen quickly. Cleopatra and her ministers had fled to Heliopolis. Not one of the Roman armies had been lost in the attacks. The effect of training, artillery, superior weapons and leadership, no doubt. Caesar could not help but smile at the thought of the hapless, untrained warriors and spearmen of Egypt, and the folly of their generals, who unwittingly moved their troops out of beleaguered cities.

The success had led Caesar to divide his forces in two. He had left the main force in the hands of his trusty right hand Trajan, and personally took charge of the assault on Alexandria. Caesar took it as a personal affront that Cleopatra had named a city after the Greek leader, just around the time that Greece had declared war on Rome because they wanted to know the secrets of Mathematics.
Needless to say that the Roman explorers axed several Greek troops before a peace treaty was concluded. However, relations between Greece and Rome were sour ever since, and Caesar vowed that
the evil Greeks would have to pay one day.

In 3250 A.U.C. Caesars task force entered Alexandria, which would now be known as Caesarea. Just before the assault, an Egyptian galley was seen leaving Alexandria. Suspicions that it carried Cleopatra and her government were later confirmed, when Roman diplomacy revealed that the small village of Giza became the new Egyptian capital.
In the same year Trajan showed his Great Leadership skills by liberating Heliopolis. From that moment he was known as The Legiondary Trajan.

The question how Trajan could best be employed in the interest of the empire had bothered Caesar for quite a while. With his recent success and popularity it became urgent. Caesar weighed the options. On the one hand, he could give Trajan his own army. Although Egypt would not put up much of a fight anymore, peace with Greece would not last very long. A strong army, led by Trajan, could be useful, especially against the strong Greek hoplites. On the other hand, the Roman empire was getting too large to be ruled by one man. Caesar had been thinking about setting up a second center of government in the lands now held by Greece. There was a good spot near Thermopylae....

The die had to be cast. But which hand would he choose?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Money, money, money

The market of Rome opened in 3510 A.U.C. Pecunia non olet, but the market smelled of all that the Roman empire had to offer: spices from Memphis and Caesarea, cattle from Hieraconpolis, game from Thebes, fish from Pisae, even elephants from Hispalis.
Money started rolling in and the treasury was growing day by day. There was little to do with the gold, but Caesar could be heard muttering that the money could be spent to improve cities, once a mythical thing called republic was established. Nobody knew what that was, but rumour had it that a wise man retired to the jungle to find out.

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An empire lost

Anxiously the settler party watched as Greek and Roman soldiers duelled in the plains near Hispalis. The Romans had the advantage of terrain, but the Greek hoplite defended itself with vigour. When their escort was vanquished, the settlers feared for their lives, but they were spared and would live on to labor for Rome.
The year was 3490 A.U.C. and the war between Greece and Rome had just started.

The Roman attack consisted of three prongs, with the main battle force striking straight at Athens and the main Greek cities on the North Coast, while smaller forces would move along the Eastern and Western Shores. Foolish Alexander spent his resources on building two or three wonders at the time, and Greek resistance crumbled quickly after Romans had taken their iron deposits and horse farms. The hoplites were not all they were cracked up to be, and the Greek counters were feeble and uncoordinated.

Early in the Greek War the city of Trajanopolis was founded, and the Legiondary Trajan rushed hither to establish the second capital of the empire. In 3730 A.U.C. Hadrian showed his brilliance under the walls of Argos. Unfortunately he died in a construction accident in Pisae a few years later, but he will be a shining example for generations to come. And indeed, the year 3810 A.U.C. witnesses the rise of the brave Maximus to the command of the First Roman Army.

Peace was concluded in 4009 A.U.C. with Greece handing over the secrets of construction. With that the Romans entered the Middle Ages.

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Basic facts, answers to Ainwoods questions:

settled NW-N of start. Initial builds were warriors for exploration, followed
by granary (by this time I had seen about 5 reasonable spots to settle, and a
few unreasonable ones too). After that settlers, warriors,
workers. Exploration revealed that Egypt had a much better start with quite a
lot of the most critical resource: food. Consequently barracks were founded
and warriors were trained.

By 1000BC the Roman empire had the grand total of 15 citizens in 5 cities, 4
workers, 12 veteran warriors and some regulars, 4 catapults, and a phony war
with Greece. Two turns later there would be an active war with Egypt, fought
by warriors-turned-into-legionaries.

Greece had much nicer lands than Carthage, with a good FP spot somewhere in
the middle of their territory. Getting my first GL near the end of the
Egypt War settled their fate.

Nice map btw! I like low food starts, gives you something to do :)
 
OPEN, going for conquest

This is an interesting starting position. The decision is between settling on the spot, or moving several times north. Since it is emperor, I did not want to loose any moves. Additionally in PTW a somewhat decentral palace is not as bad as in C3C, but then an early FB is needed. Since we are militaristic and I definitely planned to fight for some good land, I decided to settle on the spot.

My buidling sequence is accordingly: warrior (to find a nice target), barracks (to get veterans), settler, archer, archer, archer, archer, settler. The archer production was speed-up by chopping some forests.

My first warrior went north and found the land where milk and wheat in abundance exists: Egypt and in true Roman style we sent our legions (ah archers at that moment to make Egypt our food producing colony.

in 1950 BC our archers conquered Thebens:

Ronald_gotm42_1.JPG


and in 1475 BC we had a very positive battle outcome: The first GL
He was used to rush the FB in Theben (after some more cities were built to meet the minimum cities for FB:

Ronald_gotm42_2.JPG


No this game should become much easier. The Roman gods were very generous. After the greek declared war (I didn't want to give in on their demand) a second great leader was produced who built the pyramids in Thebens.

Ronald_gotm42_3.JPG


Now I settled the remaining land and prepared myself for a nicely timed GA, just after the anarchy period. In 350 BC I finished researching republic, traded for the last AA techs and started the revolution and the middle ages.

This is the graphic summary of the development of the Roman Empire:

Ronald_gotm42_4.JPG


So far I had lots of luck and fun with this game
 
Interesting reads!

And I'd like to say that this is the most fun I've had playing civ for a while.
I actually had to fight a defensive war, which was great!

My strategy was to pump military from the very beginning, and hope to conquer rather than expand.

INITIAL BUILD/ARCHER RUSH

We settled Rome one square N, but this proved to be a temporary location. My worker did a lot of forestry, and by focussing on shields rather than growth, I was able to produce

2750 BC Have barracks, 3 vet archers.

2550 BC My first archer attacks 2 Egyptian workers, and then dances around avoiding warriors until I have a stack of 3 archers.
I complete 4th archer in Rome

2350 BC Attack Thebes with a stack of 3 archers.
Kill 2 spearmen without loss, and take the Egyptian capital. I then negotaiate peace as quickly as possible, as my archers won't last long against Egypt's warriors.
Rome is size 4, so I build 2 settlers, and plan to abandon my capital.

1830 BC
Attack Memphis and again kill 2 spearmen without loss of my (now 2/4 elite) archers.
Abandon Rome and have my palace jump to Thebes.

1790 BC I win with an elite archer, and get a great leader while dispatching some warriors approaching Memphis.
I use him to rush Pyramids in Memphis.

1575 BC Destroy Heliopolis, the last Egyptian city. I have 2 wounded archers remaining after this, and I decide to sit back and try to build an empire.

FROM OFFENSE TO DEFENSE

1000 BC stats:
7 cities, 1 settler
26 population
14 warriors, 2 archers, 1 spear, 8 workers (incl 3 slaves)
all first tier techs, plus iron working and writing. 8 turns from Code of Laws at min science.

775 BC Greece demands territory map and 55 gp. I give it to them.

450 BC Pompeii deposes to the Greeks. Takes my 2 remaining archers with it.

410 BC Greece declares war on me. Initially their attack is slow, and this allows me to get my defense in position and pop rush a number of spearmen.
This puts a crimp in my plans. I won't have republic for 8 turns, so I don't want to upgrade any of my warriors to legionarries.
I just have to hold back Greece until I have a reblic.

330 BC Greece takes one city down in the jungle. Apart fromt hat, I am now in a decent position, with 5+ spearmen in my vulnerable cities, plus many warriors. The Grrek swordsmen are taking their toll however.

230 BC Discover Republic. First period of anarchy would be 6 turns. I try again, and get 3 turns of anarchy.

150 BC upgrade 10 warriors to Legionaries. Not a huge force. I’ll try to take 2-3 Greek cities and then sue for peace, in order to properly enjoy my GA.

50 BC Uh oh… Carthage ally with the Greeks, and declare war on me.

30 BC I Destroy Greek city Pompeii, losing only 1 legionary (but a lot of HP, and I’ve vulnerable to swordsmen now)

10 BC Lose Pisae to Carthage.

10 BC I attack a swordsman with an elite legionary, and get my second great leader.
Negotiate peace with Greece. I give then Republic, and they give me all their gp (117) and their world map. Now I can focus on ONE war.

30 AD Use great leader to hurry great library

130 AD Recapture Pisae

150 AD Destroy the lovely Carthaginian seaside village of Oea. This is the first properly enemy city (ie not mine originally) I have captured since my archer rush.

170 AD Negotiate peace with Carthage, and they give me a crappy city in teh Jungle and their world map.

Around here I leave the ancient age.
Still no contact with any other civs, I've sent about 4 galleys off into the sunset.
Plan is to keep growing for a while, saving money, building horsement, and letting the AI research to Chivalry for me.
 
Open, going for ... survival !

I have yet to read what others have posted, but I found the start really difficult. Desert, mountain and jungles. No cattle, no bonus food resources, no floodplains, nearly no rivers, no extra luxuries to trade with, missing resources, outrexed since the very start. The Greeks have been strong in my game from turn one. They, of course, had everything. Boy what a challenging game. Forget winning, I'm even having trouble to survive. Is it just me ?

Took down Egypt easily and settled on all their land (at war already with Greece and Carthage). My problem is Greece.

All in all, this Emperor game is VERY hard, at least for me (my first GOTM).
 
Yea, I've been struggling with this game too. My first problem was just finding the right save when I started playing again, seeing as I had a few other Rome games which I had the brilliant idea of naming just "Rome".

The start wasn't easy, and I just felt like moving south might help, and so Rome was founded on the coast, which I was happy about. After that, it felt like things wouldn't go right. By the time I had my third city, Egypt had surrounded me with cities. I was forced into a despotic Golden Age just to gain control of some land. Even with Legionaries, I only had a limited supply, but end up vanquishing all but one Egyptian city.

Problem is at this point, I've fallen very far behind in tech, and I'm nearly broke, but luckily Egypt somehow stayed ahead and I could negotiate for all my missing AA tech just for peace.

Problem is at this point, I'm right between Catharge and Greece, both of whom already have feudalism (And possibly Chivalry, but I haven't seen any knights yet...) and neither sees me in good light. Not really sure what to do with them yet....

I haven't yet decided what I wanted to do with this game, I've just wanted to survive long enough to have the choice, and now I think I'll just take my continent. Can't really think past that, maybe the other civs will inspire me in some way.
 
AlanH said:
Interesting. So far I'm the only poster who settled at 4000 BC. I wonder how it will all shake out :hmm:

In post #19 I indicated that I settled on the spot as well. Maybe not too clear, but that was the 4000BC spot.
 
MOTH said:
In post #19 I indicated that I settled on the spot as well. Maybe not too clear, but that was the 4000BC spot.
Missed that, my fault, sorry :( There was such a strong lobby for moving towards the grass during the pre-game discussion that I was assuming I'd be the only odd-ball trying the in-place option.

As it turns out, the stronger reason for moving north was probably to get nearer to Egypt, but that wasn't apparent in 4000 BC. The reasoning I gave in my spoiler post still seems to me to be sound for the early game. It's clear that Rome can't amount to much a few thousand years later, almost wherever it is. But by then I suspect most of us will have consigned it to the status of a small outpost.
 
Well, I settled 2NW and was going for 20k in it. With prebuilds it's not that bad, keeping up in tech was my problem(after hopping the Palace out to a city just south of Thebes in the late AA, it hopped back after I didn't switch it out for an improvement after the Library, Wall, and Gardens all cascaded to the AIs).
 
I've picked up the game again after not playing for at least a year and wanted to give the gotm a go. The wines on the hill made me settle Rome in 4000BC and send my worker to mine the hill. Sent warriors north as it looked like the best spot to find good city locations. Jungle everywhere and alot of egyptian cities. They must have a much better starting location then I do. I managed to settle three more cities before egypt had me boxed in. One to the north, one a square from the river to the east boarding the jungle and the last in the middle of the jungle to the north. At this point I was churning out workers and legionaries and I later founded two more cities along the coast to the south east. All of this time I was trying to keep research to a maximum as I usually have trouble waging war and keeping science up at the same time. There is something with the death of my enemies that makes me forget everything else.

I then sent my stack of 10+ legionaries to the first egyptian city along the western coast and took a serious beating from the two spearmen defending. I was left with 3-4 units and had to make a halt. A few turns later I accepted a temporary peace treaty to give me time to rebuild my strength. Somewhere around 700BC I took Thebes. What is it with legionaries against spearmen anyway? My win rate must have hit rock bottom as each spearman easily took down 3-4 of my legionaries. Alot of my resources went into reinforcements. While using Thebes as a strongpoint against the western front I took three of the remaining four egyptian cities to the east leaving the last one as a buffer against the other civilization. Thebes culture flipped once without being near the egyptian border which left me shouting :mad: Easy to retake but I lost the units I had in the city. My culture must suck ass (hadn't built a single temple yet as I was busy replacing my fallen soldiers).

Made peace with egypt around 0BC for all they had but a few cities and later made it into monarchy and the mediveal age around 200AD. I'm not too pleased with my position on the continent with rivals both left and right (even though egypt is out of the game) and I'm not sure if I should strike the stronger greeks first or not. I will need the other civilization with me what ever I choose. Only time will see. Culture is my main priority or a campaign will be a major culture flip setback. Must get that forbidden palace up as well.
 
Open, PTW, 20K attempt

I was worried that I wouldn't have time for this game. I should have known better. I'm going to include everything here, even though I did play a few turns into the middle ages.

I settled 1 NW of the start, built a 20K city 3 spaces north, a third city by the spices (which flipped to Egypt later on, the turn after completing its temple), and two more down near Rome. I met my neighbors reasonably early and got a few techs in trade, but didn't do particularly well. I studied CB and then headed for literature, after the GL.

My 20K attempt went poorly. I built a 300 shield granary shortly before learning literature, as I had no way to switch to anything else. I thought having the palace there would be worse. I did get the great library, which in short order brought me from early ancient age to theology upon completion. Unfortunately, I got nothing past education from it, and no middle age techs that weren't a prerequisite for education. In the end, it probably didn't matter as Egypt conquered me shortly thereafter.

I was somewhat surprised that my Jason score had 3 digits in it. I'm hoping to have time to try again, in search of an easier victory, probably diplomatic. Maybe then I'll be able to avoid being conquered.
 
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