GOTM 43 Hunting Tips

[ainwood]

For conquest-class players, please feel-free to post your saves and ask questions / ask for advice here.

Please limit your saves to the ancient-ages only, to avoid spoilering those that would help you.

This month's game is deity, but with a bit of help, you may find that you can do OK, and build a lot of confidence. Good luck!

 

[Jonesy10]

PTW Conquest Class
Hi All! As you will see by my save, I am having issues. I can manage wins in monarch and regent level games, but this diety game certainly seems to be too much for me.
I am at war with the Mongols. I have just taken Darhan, and am considering making peace because of my lack of military. I doubt I will get any techs/money for peace at this point.
I just learned Monarchy a turn before taking Darhan, as I was unable to trade for it. This is why Edo is burning.

PART I - Here's what I know I need to do (in order of urgency):
1) Take Tabriz, as it would be a significant production city for me being so close the my capitol.
2) Get currency so I can build markets to increase my revenue.
3) Trade wines to get another Lux. I had one with the Ottos, but they allied with the Mongols when I declared.
4) Get Chivalry for Samurai.
5) Take Paegam from Korea. Another good producing city.
6) Get republic and change my gov't.

PART II - I am struggling with:
1) Being backwards. With swordsmen, I will have trouble acquiring Tabriz. It will take too long to research Chivalry and the Samurai will be fighting against Riflemen and Cavalry. I think I saw a Musketman walk by Edo into Kazan. If they upgrade their Pikemen in Tabriz, I'm screwed.
2) Victory condition. At this point, I would consider a lengthy game loss optimistic. I fear the Mongols or Koreans could take me out if they wanted.
3) This definately is not fun. I am however willing to bear through it if I can learn something.

PART III - Depending on advice I get, my next plan is to:
1) Settle for peace with the Mongols.
2) Build up 6-8 swordsmen and 2-4 catapults and attack Tabriz in 20 turns. With some luck, maybe they will only have 1 or 2 musketmen defending and I might stand a chance.
3) Build walls and a few spearmen in Edo to defend the counter attack.
4) Turn research off. save money and buy Currency, and start researching MA techs that AI isn't for trading purposes.

PART IV - Questions:
1) Is there any way to know what techs a civ is researching? I see the wonders they are building, and this helps me somewhat. I would like to research something they aren't for trading value.
2) How do I determine what AI is weaker? Koreans or Mongols?

 

[Shillen]

Ok I took a look at your save and I'll give you a few pointers.

1) You just researched Monarchy. Well there happen to be two civ's that do not have Monarchy. Russia and Germany. You should be able to get both Currency and Construction out of it. Get currency from one civ and construction from the other along with whatever gold/maps you can get.

2) Definitely end your war with the Mongols as soon as possible. Your military is nowhere near big enough to fight a war on deity. Darhan will be in danger of a culture flip. Make sure to starve it down to 1 after you quell the resistors and try to get a temple built in there first thing.

3) Turn off the governors. They really hinder you more than they help. I know micro-managing isn't that fun but it can greatly improve your play and once you learn the ins and outs it really isn't that big of a chore.

4) Use your luxury sliders. Early in the game you can't afford to be hiring entertainers in your core cities. If your core cities are unhappy it's almost always better to turn up the lux slider than to hire a specialist. If it's a highly corrupt city then a specialist is usually better.

5) Food is the most important resource early in the game when you're settling cities. Any tile that you can get over 2 food must be improved. Irrigate flood plains, wines, cattle, etc. The two wines and the flood plains by kyoto should have been irrigated asap at the start of the game. With a high food start +5 food surplus is the goal you should try to get as growth takes 10 food with a granary and 20 food without a granary and therefore your city will grow every 2 or 4 turns respectively.

6) You do not need to have a unit defending every one of your cities. Use them for military police and possibly in cities that border with an AI. If the AI is acting suspicious (moving troops into your territory) then move units into any cities they go near to make sure you're ready for a sneak attack. But as an example I would move the warrior from Kagoshima over to Tokyo for military police so you can get rid of the entertainer.

7) You drastically need more workers and you need your cities to grow much larger. Irrigate all the flood plains and even some grasslands (now that you're not in despotism). Build workers in your high food cities. Osaka is a good choice. Get your cities up in size.

8) In cities that are over 50% corrupt like Nara for example, a library isn't very useful. It needs a courthouse first and probably a harbor as well.

9) Once your cities are nice and large you should start making a lot more gold/beakers per turn and can start to catch up on techs and start building a large military. For higher difficulty levels you need a much larger military before you can go to war with another civ than on lower difficulties. They will have a lot more units than normal and also produce them faster.

That's all I have for now. Others will probably add more or correct me if I said something wrong.

 

[DaveMcW]

Alliances are extremely important on deity! Not only do they weaken the victim militarily, they also count as a trade embargo and prevent the victim from allying against you.

If you declare war on a civ, buy in as many allies as you can afford. I usually pay per-turn to insure against backstabs, but extra techs work too. With a huge dogpile against your victim, you should have no problem keeping the alliances for the required 20 turns.

 

[ainwood]

To add to what DaveMcW says - alliances are effective. Note that the AI is not particularly good at fighting on two fronts, so getting an alliance with a civ that borders the one you're against is a good idea. For example, the chinese in this game could be an effective ally.

Firstly, the good points are that you've got a decent core established, One thing that is really in your favour is that the Mongols have no horses, because you settled on 'their' source - great move! This means that you will not be facing/have faced Keshiks, and in the early middle-ages, knights (if you can keep the mongols from trading for them). I note that you haven't hooked-up any of yours. Horsemen would have been a good early attacker (if you could attack with them before the mongols got to the middle ages and got pikes).

I see that you have a lot of temples - yes, they are cheap, but as has been said above, the luxury slider is better for keeping people happy. In despotism, the shields are better invested in military police.

If you look at your cities, you should look at ways to improve the shields per turn. If you take Kyoto for example, you are producing 7 shields per turn. This means that you get one sword every 5 turns - if you can increase shields by just one / turn, this means you get one every 4 turns. If you can increase it to 10/turn, that's one every 3 turns! Look at what can be done in all cities.

It appears that your governers are emphasising food. Something like Osaka is size 5, yet only producing a couple of shields / turn - start working some forests to get more shields.

In terms of research, you could consider shutting-down research to generate cash. This can result in loads of excess cash to buy techs - at diety (and especially on such a crowded world), self-research is often not worthwhile.

 

[k-a-bob]

Mac Vanilla, this is my first Diety game that I have played past 1000 BC.

made it to 750 BC - into next age, traded for the last 5 or so techs I was lacking on the turn I self researched currency to get to the next age. I traded some GPT to get there. I did some self research early to catch some techs before the AI did, but that failed near the end of the age.

I have fought no wars yet - Mongols, Russians vs. Chinese currently. I figure my best bet is probably going against Mongols(?), reading the above responses to the other game.

I am a couple techs behind the leaders, but no one has researched Monarchy - would this bring some good leverage? I just got all the techs that have other buildings with them - I was building some temples to keep my culture at least existent and to expand my borders.

I need to build some cash to get some embassies, as I only have 1 I think.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


ON EDIT: PLEASE NOTE, I have full world map! (I just looked at the spoiler) Is this too much info?

 

[solenoozerec]

This means that you will not be facing/have faced Keshiks, and in the early middle-ages, knights (if you can keep the mongols from trading for them

On the left there is a civlopedia entry from standard ptw, on the right the same one from GOTM43.
When I traded Mongols an AA tech and in two turns I met a keshick, I thought I discovered a new bug. We played Mongols just recently.
Then, I looked on civlopedia and decided that I have an earlier Alzheimer. When I read Ainwood’s message above I was convinced about my mental problems.

Just in case: What are other changes in the tech tree that we should expect in this game?

 

[Obormot]

I think they did that, cause it's not possible to make the Keshik move fast across mountains in vanilla and to make versions equivalent they also had to mod the ptw version.

Since it's my first GOTM, i looked through the civilopedia carefully before playing and noticed different stats for the Keshik (called Khorchin in vanilla version).

This new unit is really powerfull: it's almost as strong as the Keshik in attack due to increased HP, it's stronger in defence, costs 33% less and is available after HBR. I delayed the war with the mongols a bit, cause i was afraid to face this kind of units with swordsmen.

 

[solenoozerec]

On the page of this game, there was something saying that Keshiks will be cheaper, but there was nothing saying that they will be available in AA.

I do not mind changes, I just would appreciate knowing about them.

 

[ainwood]

On the page of this game, there was something saying that Keshiks will be cheaper, but there was nothing saying that they will be available in AA.

I do not mind changes, I just would appreciate knowing about them.

It took me by surprise as well, as it had been so long since I'd faced the mongols in a GOTM.

The Keshik (Korchin in vanilla/mac) in the GOTM is a 3/2/2 unit that replaces the horseman.

 

[Markus5]

I'm not sure what to do next. I humbly bow before the masters and ask their guidance. I have previous saves if they would be useful for instruction. I forgot my notes, but the Mongols and Koreans seem to have taken an instant dislike for each other. Japan is the Mongolian highway to the Koreans. I have no strategy, and don't know the tactics that would work.

 

[leopalas]

Hi,

Its just an oppinion, as im not very comfortable with deity level, but if i were you markus 5 just let the mongolians go through you territory. I know you might feel very uneasy with all those unit passing near your cities but usually if their issue is with the koreans they wont bother you. Some times its smart to let your territory be a battlefield whene you are not one of the contenders.

 

[a space oddity]

Indeed, this effect is known as the 'Deity right of passage'. The AI has it always, regardless of the official diplomacy status.

 

[Markus5]

Yes, I'm very happy to let them pass through. But, I've reached a dead-end. How do I advance this game? The only territory available is by conquest. I'm horribly behind in tech. Is there any strategy that I could follow?

 

[Tubby Rower]

@ markus5, The Persians have muskets (gunpowder) and the English have caravels (astronomy).

Biggest problem in this game is that the scouting wasn't adequate. I don't know how hard it was since I'm not currently playing, but the AI will trade more readily with each other than you on diety level. It looks like Germany built the GL in Berlin. You don't even know where that is.....

So I'd recommend trying to trade for a world map..... Start building swords & galleys. Once you find out where the Germans are go there declare then dump a bunch of swords off to try to take Berlin for just one turn. You'll get all of the techs that at least two of the AI have. It's risky because you really don't have the infrastructure or production to keep up right now, but that's the only way I see your game having a chance. But I've seen better come out of worse games.

 

[Markus5]

Hey, that's a plan.

I know I really messed up the GL prebuild I was doing. I should have dumped in extra workers early to get the shield count up.

Is it possible to buy my way out of the tech behinded-ness? Research to 0%, and gather cash and start shopping?

And if I get techs, what should be my next goal?

 

[Tubby Rower]

Is it possible to buy my way out of the tech behinded-ness? Research to 0%, and gather cash and start shopping?

Nope.

And if I get techs, what should be my next goal?

Build up your forces with up-to-date troops & clear you continent. Don't neglect infrastructure. Your temple builds are relatively useless.

Get more workers roading your territory. Currently you have only have an equivelent of 8.5 workers (5 workers & 7 slaves). That's good for 5-6 cities but that sucks for 13 cities. while you are waiting on your Berlin task force to travel the seas, build some more workers. Currently Osaka should build a worker after they finish training the swordsman & Tokyo could build one one the market is done.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I was just looking at your save again Marcus & you have the 2nd most land out of anyone. Your expansion has been good, but improving the land needs some help. In the picture below the squares are shaded with the city's color as to which one is being worked. The squares that are being worked but aren't fully improved are outlined by red dots. I also pasted another screenshot to the right that shows that you are working 16 tiles that are not roaded. That's 16 gold that could be yours every turn.

BTW, if I'm bothering you, let me know as I will shut up.

 

[Markus5]

Please, all the help is very welcome. You are not bothering me at all. This is exactly the information I need. I'm usually much better about building lots of workers. This time I've fallen short in that regard.

So, I'll try this strategy:
-Buy a world map.
-Build an armada of galleys filled with swords.
-Take the GL city from Germany.
-Build more workers.
-Change temple builds to something else. Libraries?
-Micromanage the infrastructure. There are improved, unworked tiles tiles. There are unimproved, worked tiles.

Any other ideas? Turn off research?

If the GL gambit fails, what would be the best thing to do? Go out in a blaze of glory?

 

[Tubby Rower]

Yes I would turn off research as the only way you (or I) will probably win this is to capture Bede's Big Book Bindary (GL).

About the temples, a round of workers might be a good thing. In the builds that have more than 10 shields available then I would start a settler. There are a couple of unclaimed spots within your grasp and I'd also fill in a little more. Masuyama should probably build something more useful than a warrior like a harbor for food since its surrounded by jungles.

You may be able to trade your wines with the Vikings, Russia, Carthage, or the Ottomans (not the Germans - remember we're going to war) next turn after the Harbor completes in Nagasaki. The extra iron could be sent to the Ottomans. This is because only one of the civ's involved in a trade has to be able to travel all tiles in order to be able to trade. Since I don't know any more of the map than whats in your save then this will really depend on whether there are sea tiles between you and them. Also do everything you can to avoid war with the Persians... because it looks like they surround your sea territory around Nagasaki and if you go to war with them then your rep will be screwed too, and the situation will be very hopeless.