GOTM#5 *Spoilers* thread for replayers and reloaders

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Chieftain
Joined
Nov 13, 2001
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Have you finished a GOTM with a half of the month left? Have you wondered how much better you could have scored, if only you knew what you now know?

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's been curious about what it would have been like to replay GOTM5 using the "perfect" strategy, which came to me, alas, too late. (It's a bit like thinking of the perfect, witty comeback to a taunting, just a few minutes too late.) Well, with restarting and reloading, Civ3 does let you do "retakes."

With good reason, we have been asked not to submit these to the rankings, since that list is reserved for non-reloaders with no foreknowledge. However, I think that there should be some sort of recognition for the person who can get the highest score on their "retake." This is a person able to learn from their mistakes, someone who can use their foreknowlege to cursh the AI.
It is also someone who is curious just how high a score is possible in the given GOTM. I must say, I am certainly curious about this, and I can guess many "legit" GOTM players are too.

Anyway, what I attached is the "final draft" of my GOTM5, replayed with full knowledge of the map and even a couple of reloads. The victory type was domination in 880AD, and my score was 5852. I'm sure more experienced players can do better, but if you do, I would very much like to see/read about your game. Please add to this thread if your reloading game beat the previously posted scores/victory dates.

As for the game I attached, here is a quick rundown: I took Paris early, leving France with only two tundra cities, one of which conveniently built the Pyramids for me. My first batch of swordsmen conquered Russia, at which point I destroyed my road to the iron source, quickly making a ton of veteran warrirors. In the 300's AD I rebuilt the iron road and upgraded all the warriros to swordsmen, who invaded Japan on galleys. My homeland produced horsemen, and when I made peace with Japan they gave me all the pre-requisites for Chivalry. I researched it as fast as I could, then upgraded the horsemen to knights who ran over Greece (supported by swordsmen divisions from the Japan campaign). Galleys met the victorious knights on the eastern (formerly) Greek shore to shuttle them to Egypt, where they were joined in their raid by more knights built on my continent. In the meanwhile, I was making settlers as fast as possible, occupying the various vacant islands. Domination came in 880, when all but one of the Egyptian cities was under my control.

Well, I'm sure many of you can do better, so please add to this thread. I am still learning about which strategies maximize score, and I'd love to see what the ultimate GOTM5 would look like.
 
It seems my file did not attach correctly; here goes a second try. I encourage everyone to attach theirs and if there are enough, we can think of some "prize" for the best GOTM5 reloader when this thread closes in early April.
 
Neat idea, sure could be interesting! I'd like to retry the strategy I ended up using but with starting on it from the very beginning, instead of shifting to Horsemen/money after hitting France. I didn't gain anything out of the French territory. It might work better to leave them alone, build up a massive launch, and then attack in two directions at once when I could launch. And then continue that way, supporting two independant simultaneous crusades. Not something I'd have tried without knowing the map, but in hindsight it might work on this one. But I may not get to trying it, my head is deep in a monster map at the moment :)

Your 880AD domination is great, sets a tough goal to beat :)

About score: My initial guess of 1000AD to 1500AD as a cutoff for milking vs early win bonus was definitely wrong for this map. The map has a lot of "sea" tiles which can be included in one's territory to boost score without triggering domination. And it has a low water percentage, so its land mass is large for a small map. So a milked score has more potential than I'd expected for a small map. I think that with an 880AD domination, you could back off to 870AD and go for a 2050 milked win and get a much higher score than you are getting with the early win bonus.
 
Well, I lost this morning officially...it was fun while it lasted, and not bad for my first Monarch game (I made it to 1655--better than I thought I'd do!)

My big faux pax was that I didn't think building a city in the hills would be too wise, so I immediately went west. I felt stupid when the iron source appeared there up for the taking and France had already snatched it! (I don't think this was an AI cheat, since they had Iron Working tech for awhile...the AIs don't depend on when WE develop Iron Working, just on when THEY do, to see the Iron). I did feel a LITTLE better because I had the Saltpeter, but I coulda destroyed France if I had that iron source! (See, why would the AI not beat me to Saltpeter if they could see the resources before they appear? I just think France got Iron Working first!)

It'll be fun to try this one again. Another thing I noticed is that island not too far from you to the south-southeast could make a good place to settle as well, if you can get the Forbidden Palace built there that is!

One final thing--for how bad the starting city appeared and all, I was pleasantly surprised when Washington reached size 12 before all my cities, and was definitely my strongest city after a lot of development. The starting CITY site wasn't as bad as it looked, though location still was very tough, obviously!

Sam
 
I am totally new to milking, because I've never had any reason to play for score. However, because I intend to play GOTM6 "for real", I am doing some reloading in #5 to get the hang of it. I bet SirPleb is right that a milked game will probably score much higher than an early finish, which I must say I find sad, because the prospects of milking the game seem to me rather dull. However, if we are playing for score, I guess I'd better learn how to do it.

The stuff about ocean squares counting as territory is new to me, and very interesting. Potentially, a strategy for avoiding domination would be to leave the interiors of the contitinents empty and to settle only the coasts. On this map, though, I have a feeling there is no continent fat enough so that the borders wouldn't grow together. This makes me think that I need to leave a chunk of an island, or maybe the entire "mountains at the bottom" island west of the spice island. Anybody try this?

Also, when you're milking it, what sort of things do you build in the cities? Sure, I suppose you want wonders and banks and libraries, but what to do after those are done? Do you build factories when you basically have nothing important to build? Or do you build units in your production heartland and sacrifice them in corrupt cities to give their construction a boost? Given that basically, the wars are over, is it still worth it to keep modern defenders, for the sake of points? Do troops even generate points? Also, does it make sense to go full boar on science research? I imagine that gets you some points... Like I said, I've never done this before, and I really can't predict the consequences of my actions wrt. my score. I'll do some trial and error (hey, that's why I'm in the reloaders thread!), but some theoretical advice might give me a good start. Anyway, I'll post the restults of my trial and error here. Thank you for the advice and feedback posted already. I feel like I'm really learning something here.
 
I'll tell ya what, I figured out what saves your life on this one! All those resources!

I have been able to stay in science race and be moderately advanced now that we are in the industrial age due to trading those resources for 20 turns in exchange for a tech or two that I get to keep forever :) That's also how I lived as long as I did in the first game I played, though I didn't do nearly as well as I am doing this time--the only difference is I grabbed the Iron this time and I didn't grab the Iron last time!
 
The domination threshold for GOTM 5 is 1301 land + coastal tiles. The easiest way to determine how many land and coastal tiles is as follows:
- Get your total tiles from the F11 screen (land area / 100).
- Count all sea tiles within your territory.
- Your land + coastal = total tiles - sea tiles.

Ok, it's not so easy but I don't know a better way.

Now a disclaimer:
- I have not finished the game yet so I am not 100% on the number or even if this is how domination is triggered.
- This number was calculated using a formula developed by chiefpaco, SirPleb and Aeson. I believe it is correct, but no one is 100% certain.
- The total land and sea tiles (1952) used to calculate the domination threshold was counted by hand. It is possible I counted incorrectly but if wrong I don't think it is off by much (probably < 10).

EDIT: I am still playing and have claimed 1298 land + coast tiles withough triggering domination.
 
Cool--thank you! These GOTMs are much easier with help! I am trying to learn how to work the domination formula for myself, because in GOTM6 I'll be all on my own. As for now, I use little bits of my free time to play a few turns milking the game that I had posted above. I thought the turns would go faster after your enemies are out of the picture, but that hasn't turned out to be the case. If anything, all the counting of tiles and the fretting that your next border expansion will trigger domination makes milking pretty tricky.
 
I tried the start of this game again using ICS. I settled on the luxury this time instead of building the city immediately. Then I built another city close to it. Since I did this the French were able to take the very nice spot by the cow SW of Paris(Which I settled as my second city last time). However, my tech went much faster and I discovered iron working before my second settler and therefore was able to have my third city get the iron. I was able to make swordsmen well before I did in the previous game and knocked the French down to one city around 1400 BC. Last game it was around 100 AD. :) I had not used ICS before, I will use it much more often now.
 
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