GOTM 54 Spoiler

[Ali Ardavan]

I just submitted. This is the earliest (real time not game time) I have ever finished a GOTM. Of course I played OCC, as I said I would.

Another first here was that I launched a space ship with 2 sets of modules, just for the fun of it. The extra +100 score is not worth the amount of time it takes to build a bigger space ship (the GOTM score will actually be lower).

I managed to ally with Germans, Chinese, and Spanish. But not the Japanese. They are always hard to ally with for some reason. The Spanish were the dominant civ in my game pretty much all along. My power ranged from Inadequate (least in this set up) to Mighty (next to the best). I was Mighty for quite a long time.

Best luck I had was the first hut which gave me a None settler. That helped me take off quite fast.

 

[Peaster]

It is nice to see someone else start the spoiler, Ali.

I spent almost an hour pondering the pro's and con's of the size 1 trick, and finally chose to use it. Then I had a string of good luck from about 2700BC to 1400BC, including several nomads from huts. I always had enough cities, and finished with 54. I played a hybrid style again; I tried for a fast conquest, but I built the Pyramids before LH or STWA, and didn't hurry my flotillas too much. After I reduced the Chinese to one city, I switched to Republic and grew for about 10 more turns, while building Mike's and some other Wonders. Maybe I should have finished in the BC years, given such a good start, but I actually finished between 100AD and 500AD.

Not all was cake. Beijing was far far away, and on such a nice site that it grew to size 8 by about 1AD. And just before my flotillas arrived, it built walls. Also, I have a habit of leaving undefended cities behind, and the Japanese somehow grabbed one of them with a knight out of nowhere. And when I couldn't choose monotheism after philosophy, I had to play about 5-10 turns longer than planned. But at least I learned more about running a republic that way.

 

[Hexer]

BC is possible? Nice
But I wonder, why you switched to Republic. I never go for Republic in an Conquest game. Ok, you get more money p/turn with some big cities but you can use the WLTK-Turns much more better, produce some units, capture some cities, and get the enemies' gold then

 

[Peaster]

@Hexer: Well, I had basically already conquered the world before I switched. It was a bit past 1AD, but I probably could have finished BC if I had planned for it. I experimented with Republic/growth for the score, and to learn how it works. In 10 turns, I raised my civ2 score almost 100%, so it helped my chances for a gold medal. It hurt my chances for a green star, of course, but if someone else wins that, they will have earned it (the huts were very kind to me in this game).

As others have already said, these extra turns of playing for score are not too exciting. Mainly you just check the food and happiness for about 50 cities per turn, trying to keep most of them growing. I also disbanded most of my army and built an aqueduct, etc - things I would never imagine doing just for EC.

 

[la fayette]

I went for big cities and a big SpaceShip, just for a change.
Safe landing on AC in 1686 (GOTM score much lower than Peaster's impressive result, I suppose

 

[mr. Y]

I went for big cities and a big SpaceShip, just for a change.
Safe landing on AC in 1686 (GOTM score much lower than Peaster's impressive result, I suppose

Impressive...
I'm trying to land as early as possible, still playing - in 1780 now and just entered the industrial age, so I guess I won't make it until the early 1900's. Did you make a log? I'd be very interested in learning how to improve my techniques.

 

[la fayette]

Impressive...
Did you make a log? I'd be very interested in learning how to improve my techniques.

Sorry, no log ! (I hate logs: they make me feel at school or at work).

Just ONE piece of advice:
If you wish to improve your technique in the field of early landing, you MUST read the Early Landing Strategy Guide written by solo.

Here is a link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82209

 

[URUWASHI]

I am suprised how much I have learn in the last few months, by reading the Postings of some of our best players.
The Log is a great idea, it slows my game , and make me think instead of reacting.
Instead of playing the game in a few hours, my plan was to play certain amount of turns at the time. Im too impatient ..and sometimes I just want to finish a turn....

I have good luck on this game my first hut returned a Settler and I had a couple of advance tribes in the game.
I decided to play a Early conquest style of game , mix with some wonders.
I had my first " Scout " trireme and a Chariot ( Hut ) 1000 BC that allowed me to search the nearby lands.
Early on I started to work on two Wonders , then I realized that MP could be pretty much all I needed I switched to Great Wall , instead of LH.
Built MP by 300/ 200 BC and all the civs ( Except the Japanese), exchanged Maps.

Before 1 AC I had 10 or so triremes plus 20 units and found the Japanese by mere luck while sailing to China.
I managed to take Kioto and then proceded to get the Chinese and the Germans.
I should have taken on the Spaniards first, but I waited since they were building The Gardens, also they started to colonize a nearby island, that complicated things a bit.
After they Build the Gardens , I took Madrid.
I could have finished the game by 400- 500 but as usual I got the " Wonder " addiction...
In fact I build the several wonders (including LH and the SWTA ) when was only one Spanish and one Japaneses City left.
I played the game Mongol Style , no improvements , just a Temple when needed.

 

[mr. Y]

Sorry, no log ! (I hate logs: they make me feel at school or at work).

Just ONE piece of advice:
If you wish to improve your technique in the field of early landing, you MUST read the Early Landing Strategy Guide written by solo.

Here is a link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82209

Thanks, in fact I found that guide before I started and based my game on it. As this was the first try, I might have followed it too strictly. The absence of a purple civ, and the remoteness of our starting position cause some needs for different decisions. Early foreign trade is virtually impossible so I decided to setup internal trading. That might have been wrong. Also, I stuck to 8 cities for most of the game, and decided to expand them to size 8 and 12, instead of keeping them small (size 5-ish). This meant building extra marketplaces and aquaducts.

In the end I landed in 1884. I am replaying the game now and am already 6 turns ahead in 2000 BC, but that's mostly because I got a nomad out of a hut that I didn't get the first round.

We'll see what happens next month.

 

[Peaster]

Uruwashi - That sounds like a very respectable EC game. My only criticism is that you probably don't need the Great Wall unless you are relying heavily on colonies very near the AI's. Even then, I would skip it. Invest those 300 shields into boats, elephants or better wonders (eg LH, STWA, an earlier MP, maybe HG).

 

[URUWASHI]

Peaster :I thought about that.
I started buiding wonders ( 2 collosus ), then I switch to the ones I need ( ie Polo and LH after the discovery of Trade )
My first 4 cities, 2 were buiding wonders, thinking that MP and ,LH were necessary. about 200 BC when Polo was built , and realized that all the land masses were near each other, by the time I had amassed close to 150 shields on my Other Woner city.
It was something I considered, but I did not want it to lose those shields for armies at that point.
The reason I built The Wall , is because at the time I was ready to attack the Japanese, and only had elephants ...defensive units on my triremes, I had close to 300 shields..The Wall was the most logical Wonder at the time.
IF I knew that only MP was needed I would have built just one.
Thats part of the curve of the game Im learning still.
Because I have played many years on my own at Deity level, Im used to start buiding Wonders after my second or third city are built.
I have to learn that that does not apply on other levels, when AI civs take many turns before they start buiding wonders.
I have got better at formulating plans , plan a strategy , keep a log that slows my game down ....the Extra wonder buiding is something I need to Cure.
I appreciate your comment and thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Peaster]

U - Do you still start on Wonders after your 3rd city? If so, you are hurting your growth rate. I wait until I have about 8-10 cities and Trade. Then I use 4 cities to build 4 vans. Then these combine asap to build the first Wonder. In GOTM54, I built MPE in 1150BC this way, without really rushing, and then Pyr's in 875BC.

 

[URUWASHI]

Thats a very good point Peaster.
Again, Im so used to play against 7 civs , Deity level that I still " think " that way.
You have a very strong point.
In fact I replayed the first turns of the game until AC and by then I could have taken all other CIV's ......but again I knew where they where.
Just want it to see IF I had played differenty, the outcome would have been very different, by building one Wonder.
Also on my replay..I found 2 Free Settlers, and 3 Advance cities, that did not happen on my original game.
I will use your technique of building several cities and then rushed with Vans.
Thanks for the point.

 

[grigor]

I went for a BC conquest from the start, and was almost successful, but ultimately not. My plan was to keep the home island lean with 4-6 cities, and expand to the west with settlers. If island hopping was not possible (it often is a good option in these CFC games, apart from GOTM 53...) I could wait for LH, which could come fairly quickly because of the friendly early techs. As it happend, the map was ideally suited to island hopping. I got several advanced tribes on new islands, but after reading samson's treatise on hut outcomes I am not sure that was as lucky as it seemed to me. I built MPE first, and got maps but got no techs at all from the distracted and hapless AI. In the end, I lost too much time by placing the cities I planned as attacking bases too far from the AI. Cowardice never pays in Civ II.

I finished shortly after 100AD with a far-flung but unconsolidated civ. I am certain that a BC finish is possible.

So far Peaster's massive buildup seems to have been the fastest way to conquer, although pumping the score slowed the finish. When did you get to 50 cities, P?

 

[Peaster]

@Grigor: I don't take great notes that late in the game, and my memory of the game is already fading. But apparently I built the 49th in 40AD. Or maybe it was a capture (what civ is "Verona" ?) I probably was not trying very hard to make more cities at that point. I had approx 30 cities in 300BC.

What did you learn from samson's treatise?

BTW - You probably win the green star. I finished after 200AD and LaF went for a spaceship this time. Some other players have been conquering pretty quickly in recent GOTMs, though!

 

[URUWASHI]

Play and learn....I been learning....
I replayed the game about 4 times using Peaster MO, instead of 8 I built 12 cities pretty early and had some of the cities with extra food just suportting a few settlers, then have settlers working on hills and getting extra shields.
My growth rate was 0 all my food cities were supporting 2 or 3 SEttlers , all my Shield cities working on Triremes or Armies....
While researching trade , I turned all my cities into " Elephants "...and when Trade was discovered , I turned all Elephants into Caravans.
That allow me to complete a few wonders.
I managed to build 4 wonders before AC , SWTA , POlo , HG and the Wall, in that
order.
Again , I knew the map by then ( Im talking replaying the game ), LH was not of use, but I managed to get Navigation Early, that allowed me to speed the triremes to China.
On my 4th try I managed to conquer the world pretty much on or about BC/AC.
I like your technique Peaster.....Wait until trade then build massive caravans....and get your wonders built in 3 or 4 turns.
INterestingly I managed to swap maps with the green Guys....that was not an option on my first 3 tries....
Also on my third try ...when I conquered the Green , they slpitted into 2 civilizations ...how that happens ??
I belive that they turned into Green , and Mongol .....
Can anybody explain that ??

 

[Peaster]

U - Glad to hear these ideas are working, but they are not mine. I learned them from reading threads here at CFC and Apolyton.

A civ-split almost never happens in my games. But there was a thread here at CFC just a couple of months ago -you can probably still find it - about exactly when it can happen. I think a civ can split if you take their capitol AND they are more powerful than you AND there are less than 7 civs in the game at that time.

 

[la fayette]

U - I think a civ can split if you take their capitol AND they are more powerful than you AND there are less than 7 civs in the game at that time.

This is correct (apart from the spelling of the capital).
I have even experienced (playing the ww2 scenario) to split the Axis Empire, then take their new capital and split again on the same turn

 

[grigor]

Peaster:

samson's Study of Hut Outcomes is at Apolyton in the Civ II Strategy forum. Dig down about a year. The relevant paragraphs are:

Rules governing the five types of outcomes

There are five possible outcomes from tipping a hut: Tribes (including nomads), Gold, Mercenaries, Scrolls, and Barbarians. The base chance of each of these outcomes is equal (20%), stated as a ratio this is: 1:1:1:1:1. However, certain game circumstances modify this ratio in predictable ways.
This can be expressed by six rules.......

#5 - Continent Rule

If a Human Civ tips a hut on a continent on which it has no existing cities (but does have cities elsewhere) and the distance from the hut to the nearest city is greater than 12, then the outcome ratio is: 7:2:2:2:2. In other words, there is a 47% chance of a Tribes outcome under these circumstances.

If the Civ is an AI, then the chance of a Tribes outcome is 100%.

-------

samson suggested an exploration strategy of popping huts in squares which would give nomads rather than tribes, allowing control over city placement. I was interested in speed, so I looked for potential AT sites.

 

[Hexer]

BTW - You probably win the green star. I finished after 200AD and LaF went for a spaceship this time. Some other players have been conquering pretty quickly in recent GOTMs, though!

I finished after 400AD. I cant remember playing a worse game than this one...blödes Spiel, blöder Spieler

I looked at my Game once again, and saw that I have finished 100 years later . What a bad game. No expansion...nothing argh. In 1 AD I had only build ~10 cities on my own. There were a few other captured cities. I started to conquest too early. My little Civ never had the chance to grow. My fault!

Edit2: And I thought, i wouldn`t need STWA. It didn`t work