GOTM106 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 106 - First spoiler, France, the Ancient Age

Reading Requirements:

1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.

Posting restrictions

1. Feel free to discuss distant contacts and trades, but be discreet about locations or directions of any AI.
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later) including resource locations.
3. AS ALWAYS, do not post Spoiler information for ANY other 'X'OTM contest.

France and Archipelago - you might need a navy. Any barb problems on your starting land mass? How did contacts go? Any good trades or diplomacy take place? How are you positioned going into the Middle Ages?

 

[Megalou]

Decided not to take notes on this one but I'm going for 20K and from the ancient age I grabbed pyramids, great library and hanging gardens. Noticeably, I did not choose a coastal town and I haven't seen any problem with that. I captured great lighthouse fairly early. The Iroquois are crumbling but there is a big logistics problem about flipping palace to Salamanca (the 20K town being hard to beat as the new palace city.) I may sacrifice a leader to hurry palace and keep Paris as a core town. After all, my goal is to get 10K jason points and not the fastest 20K win in the history of the universe. Being a Megalou-maniac I should of course expect both those things, but there is this sane dwarf inside of me whining about things like this and I find it hard to shut him up without afflicting serious injury on myself in the process.

I find it a bit tricky to find a pace that suits both leader optimization, research and early domination limit. The first two factors can be satisfied by careful use of relatively few military units, but the third one is bound to suffer.

 

[CKS]

Open, 20K, hoping to finish within 200 years of Megalou.

I settled 1 S and am doing 20K in Paris, although the lack of a palace prebuild makes me uncomfortable at emperor. I built the same ancient wonders. I also built the great lighthouse elsewhere. I made up for this investment of early shields by not building any harbors for a long time. (Somehow my harbor build got turned into something else and I didn't notice that I hadn't finished it for a long time.)

 

[Megalou]

Open, 20K, hoping to finish within 200 years of Megalou.

I'm glad if I finish at the same time as you, provided you submit on time.

 

[Raliuven]

Planned Victory condition – 100K (maybe?) I haven’t won many emperor level games so I will take what I can get, but I would like to try something other than domination or conquest.

4000 BC – Decide to move the settler S to remove coastal tiles from radius.
3950 BC - Found Paris next to cow & lake to North.
3900 BC – 3500 BC Try a worker first gambit.
3000 BC – found Lyons by game.
2550 BC – Meet first Barbarian.
2510 BC – Kill him of course.
2470 BC – found Rheims on coast at prepared site.
2350 BC – spot GH
2270 BC - pop GH- empty. Thanks. Island pretty much scouted now.
2110 BC – miss unhappiness in Lyons because of fooling with science slider to get Pottery quick. Darn.
2070 BC – found Marseilles
1990 BC – Build Charters aka Whale town. Need culture to pick up whale, though.
1725 BC – Avingnon founded.
1625 BC – Bescanon founded.
1525-1500 BC – meet and kill second barb.
1400 BC – Found Grenoble.
1375 BC – Set Rouen to build FP as prebuild.
1325 BC – Missed unhappiness in Lyons AGAIN. I hate that city.
1200 BC – First Galley built
1175 BC – somehow missed disorder in Besancon. Hate not having luxuries.
1150 BC – Meet the Germans. They don’t know anybody. They have 8 cities. They are up a bunch of 1st level techs. I have writing over them.
1125 BC – Found Amiens.
1100 BC – Meet the Zulu. They know the Vikings. They know writing but not map making. They are up a bunch of 1st level techs. They only have 8 cities as well.
1050 BC – meet the Iroquois. They up 4 1st tier techs. Hiawatha is willing to give me all 1st tier techs for contact with the Germans. The wheel, BW, WC and CB and 10gp! Check with the Germans and they are willing to give up all the techs plus 30gp. Germans have the better deal. I can play the Vikings/zulu against the germans/Iroquios for a while (I hope). I now have 4 Civs to sell my advanced techs too.
Take the German deal.
I can now see that Zulu, Germans and Iroquois all have: Myst, HBR and IW. Germany is short Writing but they are close to getting it – they won’t offer much for it (only 12gp). Zulu and Iroquois are willing to trade all for MM. The Zulu will give me contact with the Vikings and 110gp for MM.
Trade MM to Zulu for contact with Vikings and 110gp. Vikings don’t know anybody new and only have 7 cities. They have no money. Have horses.
Vikings won’t trade IW, HBR and Myst straight up for MM – they want 58gp too. I will make this trade which will keep MM away from Germans and Iroquois for next round of trading.
I trade Germany Writing for 12gp – Iroquois have it but have not given it to the Germans yet. Might as well get my 12 gp.

I see we are strong compared to Germany, Average compared to Iroquois and Zulu and weak vs. Vikings.
1025 BC – Trading – note that Zulu have Math. They are willing to give it to me for 249gp + 2gpt (289gp). I see that Iroquois, Germany and Vikings do not have it and have a total of 278gp to their names. I will try to trade Zulu for Math, then turn around and fleece the other AIs for all their gold plus world maps. I will trade to the Iroquois first – they have the most gold. Then the Germans. Then the Vikings. Iroquois/Germans still have not met the Zulu/Vikings. Only the Babylonians are missing and no one has contact with them yet. I am willing to bet they are far behind in techs.

Reality – trade Zulu for Math, give 249gp +2gpt (289gpt).
• Turn around and trade to Iroquois for 127gp and WM (all they had). Would not agree to gpt.
• Germans are willing to part with 23gp and WM. They would give me all 93gp, but then no map. I would rather see their world then have the extra 70gp. I’ll fleece them for it later, though they are currently my #1 military target.
• Vikings would give me all their gold, but not gp & WM. They offer WM and 36gp. I decide that will work. Haha – Viking WM gives me most of Zulu territory too.
Cost of 289gp – got 3 WM (plus Zulu territory?), 186gp. So for 103gp, I got Math and almost the entire world map.
1000 BC
Stats:
11 cities. 1 Settler, 4 Workers, 17 Warriors, 4 Galleys. 203gp. Histograph is309 – I am in the lead by 7 points.
I have contact with Zulu, Vikings, Germans and Iroquois. The Babs are missing in action for everyone.
Techs: All 1st and 2nd tier + Lit, MM and HBR. I am up Lit over Zulu and Vikings and up Lit and MM over Iroquois and Germans. I have Philosophy due in 9 turn.
Zulu and Vikings have met. Germans and Iroquois have met. I am the tech broker between them.

After 1000 BC – about 410AD
I have continued to expand and I somehow ran afoul of the Iroquois. They mistook me for a victim. I am busy crushing them with sword and horse. I am a little behind in techs, but I think when I am done with the Iroquois homeland I will give them peace for all their techs and let them have their small island(s) Kingdom. I have only destroyed 5 cities (including their capital) and they are already willing to give me everything. Hopefully they will pull in a tech or two more before I finish them off. What has surprised me is that the Iroquois seems way underdeveloped. They have been colonizing islands but their main homeland still has lots of unsettled, unproductive land. Not completley sure why that is.

Once I am done with that, the Germans are next. They have culture flipped one of my cities and I want it back. My big mistake as far as I am concern is researching Writing slowly. I should have gone full tilt out of the starting gate. I could have been much further ahead in the tech brokering game if I had done that.

**Edit** The only Wonder I have is the GLH, but I have built my FP as well.

 

[templar_x]

going for conquest, if i can make it on time.
i have moved my flat, today the old one gets cleaned and handed over soon, but in the new flat there are still many things to get done. like, to install internet connection. or tv.

here is what i have done, after i have reinstalled c3c and ca for this game:

move scout worker to cow, settle in place, start on Pottery.

build order:
granary in 3150bc, 1st settler in 2900, rax, warrior-settler combo factory from 2510 on. i thought. –but what the heck??? NO! the 10th shield is CORRUPTED!

2800 build 2nd town 1w1nw
2390 3rd town 1s1se
2270 4th town 1n1ne
From 2230 on: trying again, now with a 4,8 to 6,8, 6-turn combo SF! producing 2 vet warriors and 1 settler every 6 turns.
1990 hut gives barbs
1870 5th town 1w4nw
1790 build granary in 2nd town for workers
1675 6th town 5sw, island is fully explored
1525 7th town 3s1sw
1475 MM in, two galley prebuilds finish
1425 find land to the east, but no contact yet, 3-turn workers in 2nd granary town
1400 8th town 1e3se
1375 9th town 2w2sw. meet Germany. 6 towns, no Alpha or Pottery yet, but lots of other techs. no contacts. 1st trading round, I get TW, horses are already connected. 2nd round yields their map, they have neighbours and a similar sized island like ourselves. Don´t want to give them MM though. 2 luxes in Germany, 0 in France.
1325 meet Zulus, they know the Vikings, have the same techs i do except MM. 3 luxes! Lots of jungle. Meet Iros, they´re backwards on the Alpha-path, but I get Myst, HB and IW from them. I find that there´s also iron on our nice island!
1250 10th town 2s2se. meet Vikes.
1200 CoL in
1125 meet Babs
1100 11th town 3n1nw
1050 Philo in

qsc 1000bc:
11 cities (1st)
34 pop (1st)
96 tiles (5th)
10 workers, 19 warriors (mainly vets), 1 archer, 6 galleys
2 grans, 2 rax
25 turns to Rep
All contacts

875 2nd village is deserted
570 Rep in,revolt for 6 turns this will cost me quite some pop due to starvation. Connect iron.
550 upgrades of swords
430 I am finally a republic, no more hunger
410 capture first Viking town with furs
330 Babs build Pyramids… I am coming!
310 Iros build TGLight, they are the worst possible nation to build it in my war plans. Babs build TGW. hmmmm...
270 get a harbour town from the Vikes, nice
250 Vikes destroyed
170 2 civs in MA, triggering the barb uprising. no barb villages on my home island though.
150 enter MA

the main difference i can see between Raliuven's game and mine is that i built quite a few workers. i even continued this after 1000bc. not sure if i will ever benefit from them.
then, my first war was against the western island. i am following the wonder path, as this is the only way i see how i could enjoy a useful GA, if i am lucky.
i decided not to hand-build the FP. if i am really lucky i will get two MGLs and rush a 2nd core. if not, i plan to play without that.
re research i did not intend to go into the MA, but it happened. from my side this became a no research game after reaching Rep.

serious fighting ahead.

templar_x

 

[Raliuven]

I wish I had your foresight - not sure about the early workers - most of mine are just standing around right now and I've capture enough Iroqouis workers to do all the work there - no need to transport. But after 1000BC, I feel like I fell off the wagon.

Question - did you play tech broker for a while?

I think your attack plan is better than mine. I've been sucked into one war after another, and though I killed the Iroquois, I'm having big problems with the Germans. They suddenly jumped from knights to having Riflemen. I don't have Cavalry yet and I am starting to worry they will have Infantry before I can use Cavalary to kill their Rifles. I am currently using Knights to pillage them into the stoneage - as noted, I have plenty of workers to fix the land after the war, not to mention slaves. I am also trying to get them to attack a musketeer to kick off my GA - hopefully I can get back on track. At this point I am worried I will be submitting a defeat. I also don't think I will be making a 100k victory, but I am leading by Histograph, so there is a glimmer of hope if I duke it out to 2050AD.

My big problem is that I only have the one luxury I got from the Iroquois. Luxuries are killing me. You were also able to change governments WAY before me. That was a killer, but I couldn't change until I had the Iroquois under control. And then I got a 5 turn anarchy that seemed to last for 10-20 turns.

 

[templar_x]

no tech brokering, as i was not interested in that many techs. i only wanted IW, HB, MM and Rep, which were easy to come by.

if i am going to face rifles, my strategy is busted and i am doomed

templar_x

 

[Più Freddo]

what the heck??? NO! the 10th shield is CORRUPTED

Yes, it was a small map. Sorry for not realising this before posting in the pre-game thread, where I suggested a 60-shield factory. Then it was too late.

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator class
Going for Conquest

I decided to found the capital 1S of the starting position in order to
make place for more RCP3 cities, as we apparently had Coast in the
east. In the absence of another food bonus, I'd have to settle for a
six-turn factory. I built a Warrior-Settler combo factory (without
Barracks) laid out to maximize commerce on the assumption, that we
were alone an an island and would have to research Map Making before
making any serious progress.

Build order in the capital was two Warriors, which both stayed put as
Military Police, Granary, two Settlers, Wealth, then normal factory
operation at sizes 4.0 to 6.0 providing further Warriors which could
then belatedly start the scouting process.

3950 BC Found Paris
2710 BC Found Orleans
2550 BC Found Lyons
2270 BC Found Rheims
2030 BC Found Tours
1790 BC Found Marseilles
1650 BC Found Chartres​

Orleans built two Warriors, then The Pyramids as pre-build for a
Forbidden Palace. I find that I often have too many shields on my
hands when there's no enemy around to kill off my units, so building
the Forbidden Palace seemed like a good idea. The next few cities
built Warriors and Workers. Tours started off with a Settler as
pre-build for a Galley, which was finished in 1600 BC. The next two
Galleys came only in 1400 BC and 1325 BC.

Research went Pottery, Writing, Map Making.

4000 BC Discover Masonry
4000 BC Discover Alphabet
3400 BC Discover Pottery
2550 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
2270 BC Discover Writing
1600 BC Discover Map Making​

I soon started meeting the other tribes, which were unaware of each
other. As I could afford it, using money from Technology trading, I
established Embassies and started phoney wars for happiness.

2550 BC Pop Hut Technology
1500 BC Meet Germany
1475 BC Meet Iroquois
1275 BC Meet Babylon
1200 BC Build Forbidden Palace
1125 BC Meet Zululand
1125 BC Meet Scandinavia
1125 BC Embassy Zululand The Pyramids in 490 BC
1125 BC Embassy Scandinavia Horses, Gems. The Pyramids in 650 BC
1125 BC Embassy Iroquois Horses, Wines. The Pyramids in 360 AD
1125 BC Embassy Germany Spices. The Oracle in 170 BC
1125 BC Embassy Babylon Silks. The Oracle in 1050 BC
1125 BC War Zululand
1125 BC PT/A Scandinavia v. Zululand
1050 BC War Iroquois
1050 BC PT/A Germany v. Iroquois​

The Zulu had built The Colossus in 1350 BC and I guessed, that
Scandinavia would get The Pyramids with the Zulu then cascading to The
Great Lighthouse. If I tried to capture The Pyramids first, I would
still lose out on The Great Lighthouse, so I would have to capture
that one also before I could get a Golden Age. So I made a plan to
forget about The Pyramids, capture Zimbabwe with The Great Lighthouse
and then finish The Great Wall, the cheapest wonder and an industrious
one, immediately after, so triggering the Golden Age after capturing
only one city. Also, other than The Great Lighthouse, I could build
The Great Wall in my inland Forbidden Palace powerhouse Orleans. As
such, the wonder was of course utterly useless except for denying the
other tribes to afford me the nuisance of possessing it.

As could be expected, the minor Technologies were provided by the
other tribes. My own research progressed towards The Republic, where I
initially expected research to end. But for my plan, I would need
Construction, too.

1500 BC Learn Warrior Code
1500 BC Learn The Wheel
1500 BC Learn Iron Working
1500 BC Learn Bronze Working
1475 BC Learn Mysticism
1475 BC Learn Horseback Riding
1400 BC Discover Philosophy
1125 BC Learn Polytheism
1125 BC Discover Code of Laws
1050 BC Learn Mathematics​

My homeland expansion went on thusly:

1425 BC Found Avignon
1400 BC Connect Horses
1275 BC Found Besancon
1225 BC Found Rouen
1200 BC Found Grenoble
1125 BC Found Dijon
1100 BC Connect Iron
1075 BC Found Amiens
1050 BC Found Cherbourg​

So at 1000 BC my Quick Start Challenge result was:

_14 Towns (1st)
_30 Citizens (1st)
121 Tiles (3rd)
__2 Barracks
__1 Granary
__1 Forbidden Palace
__5 Contacts
__5 Embassies
__6 Workers
_14 Warriors, regulars except where promoted by fighting Barbarians
__2 Galleys
__1 Archer

17 turns from The Republic, further missing Literature, Monarchy,
Construction and Currency​

I then had some luck with a Hut and after discovering The Republic
went for Construction, which I somewhat unexpectedly could buy from
the Iroquois before completing the research myself. Later, they also
provided me with Currency and an entry into the Middle Ages.

925 BC Learn Literature
650 BC Discover The Republic
510 BC Learn Construction
_30 AD Learn Currency​

As I became a Republic, I knew that my plan could work. The Pyramids
and The Great Lighthouse had been built where expected in 710 BC. I
built up my military in the form of Horsemen, Galleys and the odd
Swordsman and upgraded all the mostly regular Military Police Warriors
to Swordsmen to use against the Predator-class Musketmen. I had
disgusting amounts of cash, so neither upgrade nor upkeep was a
problem. It played out just beautifully. I even had War Happiness from
most tribes before I needed to declare on them. For example, I let
Scandinavia capture the last Zulu city while I turned my attention to
Germany and only then went back to the western front, at which time I
had already placed my troops strategically in Scandinavia under a
Right of Passage agreement. Finally, just before entering the Middle
Ages through trade, I was able to use my first Great Leader to jump
the Palace to previously German lands.

925 BC Pop Hut Technology
775 BC Pop Hut Barbarians
650 BC PT/A Scandinavia v. Zululand
650 BC Establish Anarchy After re-roll, Republic in 3 turns
630 BC War Germany War Happiness!
630 BC PT/A Iroquois v. Germany
590 BC Establish Republic
350 BC Capture Zimbabwe with The Colossus and The Great Lighthouse
330 BC Build The Great Wall
330 BC Enter Golden Age
310 BC War Iroquois War Happiness!
290 BC Right of Passage Scandinavia
290 BC PT/A Babylon v. Iroquois
250 BC PT/A Scandinavia v. Zululand
170 BC Destroy Zululand by Scandinavia
170 BC War Scandinavia War Happiness!
170 BC Capture Berlin
150 BC Capture Nidaros with The Pyramids
_90 BC War Babylon War Happiness!
_70 BC Flip Oslo, Massive Uprisings
_30 BC Emerge Great Leader 1st Napoleon
_10 BC Jump Palace to Leipzig
_30 AD Enter Middle Ages​

A few cities were built in this phase, and then luxuries connected
from the captured lands:

750 BC Found Poitiers
650 BC Found Toulouse
350 BC Found Bayonne
230 BC Connect Dyes
_90 BC Connect Spices
_50 BC Connect Ivory
_30 BC Connect Furs
_30 BC Connect Gems​

 

[templar_x]

Yes, it was a small map. Sorry for not realising this before posting in the pre-game thread, where I suggested a 60-shield factory. Then it was too late.

i really should have checked that myself. it's only that i never play small maps in single games and therefore did not think about it.

it worked out as described, but not 4,6-6,6, but 4,8-6,8, a version my spreadsheet had shown before but was scrapped by my first place, because it was not as efficient. had to be efficient enough then, though.

templar_x