GOTM119 - Final Spoiler

civ_steve · Feb 17, 2012

GOTM 119 Final Spoiler - Babylon, Game Submitted

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You have completed and submitted your game.

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Alright, you can post any discussion from your entire game. How did you do as Babylon in an archipelago world?

donsig · Feb 23, 2012

Well, I researched warrior code first and made nothing but warriors. Explored south first and by the time I found the Greeks I only had three warriors close enough to attempt the block - the southern explorer was nine turns away. I decided to make a barracks first since I figured bowman would be hard pressed to beat hoplites. Well, before my fourth warrior made it back north and before my barracks was even done the Greeks slipped four warriors past my unfinished blockade and despite heroic defenses by my two warrior garrison I was conquered in 2500-something BC.

I spend too much time playing civ 4 lately. Forgot you can switch builds without penalty and enter foreign lands without declaring war before you have writing. Oh well, I guess this means I can play more civ 4.

Megalou · Feb 24, 2012

Predator

It was time for 100K, which I hadn't tried for several years. The traits were good for it, the map not so good. It would have been nice to have some weaker tribes around in the beginning to nick towns from.

A very common conundrum for me is how to deal with Map Making. It is a sure trade because the AI (incl Greece) can't resist it but the trade-off is often the time it takes to meet other tribes. I ended up trading for it eventually, but not until I had already met Aztecs across the water.

I had two wars with Greece and came pretty close to snuffing it. I had to ponder the exact places to fortify my scarce warriors and more scarce spearmen as the Greeks tried to fork the towns nearest the bottle neck. Instead of snuffing it I played an increadibly drawn out game, as opposed to you, donsig. I employed three massive despotism culture rushes, although a bit too late in the game. The record was 189 culture points in one turn, but that one yielded only 7 turns on the final victory date, which was in the 1300s.

Megalou · Feb 25, 2012

By 10 AD I had captured Athens plus its core and had the leader to rush a new palace. The Forbidden Palace was already in place in Ur. But then I had the worst turn imaginable. Delphi flipped back to Greece, but in spite of this, my republic had apparently grown too much so that the palace cost was 100 shields more. 100 shields in a corrupt town takes an eternity. So I figured that I could raze a few fledgling towns to bring my area back to a lower level. It took 3 towns, as you can see in the second picture. What to learn from this? Never rush palace until you have finished all your settler moves. Even avoid cultural expansions if you can.

Note that Athens could have flipped on the interturn between 30 AD-50 AD.

Raliuven · Feb 27, 2012

1315AD – build UN.

Hold the vote. It is as expected.

Vote is 4 to 1 with 1 abstaining.
Diplomatic victory. 25 hours, 39 minutes, 45 seconds.
Firaxis Score: 5840
Jason Score: 8074

Middle Ages: 70BC
IA: 740AD
MA: 1310AD

I lost many battles I felt I should have won and many, many times I ended up being one unit shy of victory and that really bogged down my game. It was very frustrating. The hoplites were just killing me and continued to do so even after I banished them from the mainland. I always knew I would need to kill them pending the vote and the hunt took a lot of resources.

I receive the ultimate 'screw you' by the RNG when every single scientific civ pulled mono in the MA. So much for trading the first teir techs. After running the entire line to Astro/Banking I STILL had to research engineering myself.

First GL in 210AD. I eventually set up my second core in old Greece because nothing better presented itself. I had already invaded the Iroquois but i decided the time to set up a new core would outweigh the greater land and conquering the Iroquois would also require me to divert additional resources to military builds, which I didn't want to do. In addition, I had bought the Aztecs as allies and they were doing a fair job and prevented the Iroquois from ever reaching horses.

GL2 in 290AD and he's the last GL for the game. Use him to capture Cops and also put Newton's in Babylon.

I know Korea by 380AD. Don't know when I met Japan but not long thereafter. From that point on I traded just about everything that wasn't nailed down at incredible bargain prices! I was 4 turns on Music for the happiness and 4 turns on sanitation. I'm not sure if it was worth it. In my mind I figured it was either good or it was nearly a wash. I maintained good trade with most of the AIs but it took forever for them to build supply routes and I had problems for my own workers to solve the entire game.
Enter the IA in 740AD and finally everyone receives a different tech and I have a monopoly on steam which quickly gives me Medicine. Could care less about Nationalism and I never face a rifle for the entire game. Coal is already connected and I'm good to go!

The AI spends the entire time backfilling the Middle Ages and then pursuing Communism. Free Artistry is never learned in this game but they got as far as Democracy. Aside from medicine I research the entire IA (required techs) until I take Motors and Radio with the ToE.

This was a gamble but I decided it would cut out 5-6 turns off my ending. I gambled that someone would get Fission and I could buy (or have it) for my UN prebuild.

As it turned out, I pulled computers. Both Korea and Persia pulled Fission.

Full Log

Spoiler :

del62 · Feb 28, 2012

Just finished

PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: Open
Game status: Cultural 100K Victory for Babylon
Game date: 1808 AD
Firaxis score: 6711
Jason score: 6441
Time played: 40:56:12
Submitted save: Hammurabi of the Babylonians, 1808 AD.SAV

Bit of a slow game and very boring at end. Went the Internet route, probably a mistake, and a few times had to avoid domination.

As this was only my second PTW game, the first for ages (though I have ages ago played a bit of vanilla), was on a bit of a learing curve.

Memento · Mar 4, 2012

10 turns to finish UN and i run out of time :cry:

tR1cKy · Mar 4, 2012

combined spoiler

Submitted at the very last moment. The final result is a conquest in 530 AD, with a Firaxis score of 9924 and a Jason score of 11267. It could have been better, but once again i had to play in a very fragmented way because of the lack of time. I counted 13 or 14 sessions, the later ones being of a 4-5 turns each, and this certainly doesn't help strategic planning and forethought. For the same reason, my spoiler won't be detailed as usual, although i have some interesting screeshots to show.

Besides that, this has been one of the strangest game i played, both for the good and the bad.

First of all, huts. Have they been modded? Either that or i've had the most favourable outcome of all my Civ career. Totally forgetting i was playing Emperor (i only made up my mind when i saw unhappiness in Babylon at size 2!!!) i stepped on the near hut with my first warrior, got CB and used it to trade for Alphabet. Moved on a 2nd hut, to deny it to the Greeks, and got Warrior Code. Win twice, gamble again: 3rd hut and 3rd tech. The list goes on: a Nubian worker, another tech, a deserted village and a conscript warrior. Not once i drew barbs.

Now, before you call me lucker, let me say that only the first tech had really an impact, because it let me trade for Alphabet and go for a min run at Writing. The 2nd one got me only 40 quids, and by the time i researched Writing i had more than 200 coins. The other ones were all useless, i could have traded for them and still gobble up all the cash available. Finally, i paid this luck later on, and with interests.

The opening was pretty standard: settle in place, warrior, warrior, worker, granary. With two forests to clear, it took a while to set up the 4-turner and in the meanwhile i had to bear with the aggressive settling posture of the greeks: they almost managed to cut me off completely from furs! Cities were placed at RCP 4. The tech sequence was Pottery (max) -> Alphabet (trade) -> Writing (min run) -> Map Making (max). I prebuilt a pair of boats, started sailing and got knowledge of all the AS, without selling contacts whatsoever. Then i had to research myself both CoL and Philosophy and finally i reached Republic in 590 bc, not before two wars with enemies still in despotism.

The greeks sneak-attacked me very early on, when i had only a bunch of regular warriors to defend myself. But i got hints of it (greek war forted outside my capital, leave or declare option) and didn't let them catch me pants down. The capital repealed the attack and then a warrior on mountain, guarding two workers, defended twice and became veteran. Then, i took my chances against a warrior escorting a settler, won and got 2 slaves. At this point, with an archer buildup they could have crushed me, but apparently they were poprushing hoplites instead. For when archers showed up, they were regular and unescorted, and at the cost of 4 warriors i managed to take down 3 of them. The main trouble came from a hoplite wandering in my land, that i had to cut off from vital squares with a sort of blockade:

As soon as i get Map Making i offer peace, getting a city and their world map. What could have led to disaster turned out to be a good thing. Apart from Athens building the Colossus, nothing particular happens until 1000 bc. Here are the QSC statistics:

11 cities, 25 pop units;
1 settler, 11 workers, 15 warriors, 1 spear, 3 galleys, 3 bowmen, 2 slaves;
missing Poly, Math, Philo (due next turn), Construction and Currency;
408 quids in the coffers, that will be used for a mass-upgrade of warriors;

Alas, i forgot to submit a QSC savegame

But i have a screenshot:

Note the cultural pressure over Sparta. That spot was too good to be missed. A temple was rushed quickly with woodchopping, and troops are there to keep my city safe. Of course i hoped to cause Sparta to flip, but it never happened so i had to take it over the hard way.

As Athens completes the Great Lighthouse, it is time to assess the pesky greeks. The whole stack of swords is sent to Athens, overlooking Sparta. Next turn the city falls, but my stack stumbles over the first of many SOURs and is miniaturized to half its size. The remaining forces are barely enough to take over Sparta. Then, the Iroquois sneak-attack my lone settlement of Kish in the southern tip of their landmass, meant to hook up dyes. Two warriors vs. one of mine, they win flawlessly at the first battle and the city is autorazed.

Due to their scarcity of land, the takeover of Greece is completed quicky. To my surprise, they are willing to give away their settlement oversea, built upon dyes. So i sign peace, then gift them Republic and sign a RoP, which is immediately abused to capture their last city. As nobody else knew the greeks, my dastardly act passed unnoticed and my reputation remained intact.

Gone the Greeks, it is time to assess the treacherous Iroquois. A fleet of galleys send troops over the strait and the land grab begins. But then, a veteran warrior decides to suicide himself against a veteran bowman, and my Golden Age is triggered at the wrong time! Too early to be exploited fully damn it! Anyway, the conquest goes on. A leader is generated, a city is founded in the middle of the Iroquois land and the Forbidden Palace is rushed immediately.

Peace is signed and the Iroquois are left playing OCC in a small town completely surrounded by jungle. They are left alone for the moment because i still need my trade reputation. Time to assess the Aztecs, but before i move they anticipate me by entering my land. They are told to leave or declare and they declare. Next turn is Persia which tries to sneak-attack at the dye colony. As i'm about to enter Middle Ages, it comes exactly at the wrong moment -.-

Middle ages is reached in 90 bc and my free pick is Monotheism. The only chance i have is with Korea and luckily they get Feudalism. The two MA techs are traded, then i go at slow rate for the last tech i really need, Chivalry. During the Aztec campaign three more leaders are generated: the 1st is used for Sun Tzu in the Iroquois / Aztec landmass, the 2nd one for the Great Library and the 3rd one is sent to the capital to sit there until Monarchy was learned, and then used for the Hanging Gardens. In the meantime, lots of elite fishing took place. Leader galore? Not quite, because that leader was the very last one of the whole game, in spite of more than 40 successive elite victories (i stopped counting when they were not really important anymore).

Meanwhile, the grace period for the Iroquois is over and their last city is captured. Moreover, i manage to take over the Persian city of Sardis, which sits at the exact place to act as a canal for the upcoming galley chain that will send troops to the Mongol and Persian front. Here's the shot:

A two-front war begins when i start taking over Mongolia. They have horses and iron but no knowledge of Chivalry. Yet, their defenses were surprisingly strong and once again i take heavy losses, to the point the war weariness starts kicking in. A nasty surprise comes from the Aztecs: their last city is captured in 150 ad but they have boat people somewhere. Next turn, the new Aztec capital of Teayo shows up, in a far far chunk of land at the southern tip of the Japanese landmass! I send a boat with two horses but it must come back because, as i approach the land, i see two archers, two spears and one jaguar warrior *outside* of the city, therefore they must be having at least another defender inside! How the hell did they manage to have all those troops from a fresh-built city?

Whatever it is, the Aztecs managed to survive much longer, until i came back with a bigger fleet and an overwhelming force of 8 knights. And yet, thanks to a SOUR, the attack almost failed.

With the Mongolian war still going on i start attacking Korea. The korean cities are lightly defended. With no iron, no horses and no barracks their only troops are regular spears and archers. Seoul falls easily and retains its harbor, but then my maces and knights decide to soil themselves en masse outside Wonsan and Pusan: double SOUR and double failed attack. Fortunately, for the time my 2nd core is up and running, so fresh troops are available to take over the two cities next turn, yet it was an annoying setback.

In 300 AD i sign peace with Mongols, leaving them with one city in their northern tip (devoid of iron and horses) and a settler+spear pair that is in the middle of the jungle and has nowhere to settle.

In the very same turn, i see this:

In the diplomacy screen, there is no "leave or declare" option, but the text says "blah blah blah withdraw them now", so they shouldn't be aiming at us, they're probably going after the mongolian settler, right? Wrong, in the interturn the immortal sneak-attacks Dalangzagad and, of course, scores its kill -.-

It is the beginning of an abysmal phase for my forces there. While the waves of immortals never managed to penetrate and cause real damage, they were a constant annoyance, ofted defending successfully against knights and then killing them with apparent ease. I resume war with Mongolia immediately, take over their last city and capture the wandering settler, removing them from the game and disengaging some troops meant to guard their cities, yet i remained stuck for several turns in that pesky jungle fending off persian pesters instead of preparing the invasion of mainland Persia. They seemed to have a neverending supply of immortals -.-

On the other front, i cleared north Korea, signed a RoP with Japan, moved into japanese territory and cleared south Korea, on the left "leg" of the japanese landmass. Then i stumble upon the lone persian settlement of Tyre, where my knights once again decide to soil themselves against regular spears: SOUR and failed attack -.-

In 400 ad, Korea is finally cleared, and the mass of troops reposition itself to rape Japan. On the other front, i sign peace with Persia, grab a city and prepare the main invasion. It will come in three front: slow units advancing to the southern area, main bulk of knights landing and their western coast and, on the final phase, reinforcements coming from Japan taking care of their capital. Easy? Not quite:

It's 500 ad, at the end of the turn. The knight has zero movement left. That stupid longbow has survived, redlined, against a knight and now is about to capture that city. The best thing i could do was to move a knight from the coast, just in range for recapture, but now the same knight can no more embark to defend a colony in the small island to the south, which finds itself short of defenders. Now, guess where two immortals are about to be landed in this very same interturn? -.-

In short, i had to abandon that colony to not let it fall in the hand of the Persians.

As the game is almost over, there's time for another SOUR: a stack of 10 attackers coming from conquered Japan, knight and maces, has been landed just outside Persepolis. In the interturn, immortals kill the 1st knight, redline the 2nd (which retreats) and then kill it. When it's my turn, my troops once again soil themselves (there must be something wrong with the food) and the attack fails horribly. Next turn, reinforcements from the captured city of Pasagardae manage to take over Persepolis, but then i have to wait for another shipment from Japan before the two last persian cities could be captured, in 520 ad. At least, they had no boat people and conquest is achieved.

Oh, did i mention the SOUR i've had previously at Bactra, visible in the last shot? That was the reason why Gordium had been left defenseless -.- Anyway, it could have been worse, Gordium could have flipped and then, in the next turn, i could have met a longbow and a musketman. Yes, they researched Gunpowder in the final turns, but didn't have enough time to build musketmen. I suppose i should be happy, after all.

Tech log:

4000bc: Bronze Working (prerequisite);
3750bc: Ceremonial Burial (hut);
3350bc: Pottery (research); Alphabet (trade, Greece);
3300bc: War Code, Mysticism (hut);
2110bc: Wheel (hut)
1675bc: Writing (research);
1325bc: Map Making (research);
1175bc: Iron Working (trade, Aztecs);
1100bc: Code of Laws (research); Masonry, Horse Riding (trade, Iroquois);
_975bc: Philosophy (research);
_590bc: Republic (research);
_490bc: Mathematics (trade, Persia);
_190bc: Currency (research); Construction (trade, Persia);
__90bc: Polytheism (research); Monotheism (scientific bonus); Feudalism (trade, Korea);

__10ad: Engineering (Great Library);
_250ad: Chivalry (research);
_290ad: Monarchy, Theology (Great Library);
_340ad: Invention (Great Library);

Cities till QSC:

4000bc: Babylon
2150bc: Ur
1990bc: Niniveh
1790bc: Ashur (wines)
1700bc: Ellipi (furs)
1575bc: Akkad
1350bc: Uruk
1325bc: Eridu
1325bc: Corinth (extorted)
1175bc: Samarra (horses)
1000bc: Lagash (wines)

Meetings:

3350bc: Greece;
1175bc: Iroquois, Aztecs;
1000bc: Korea, Japan;
_800bc: Mongols, Persia

Kills:

_590bc: Greece;
_130ad: Iroquois;
_330ad: Mongols;
_340ad: Aztecs;
_400ad: Korea
_500ad: Japan
_520ad: Persia

Megalou · Mar 5, 2012

How the hell did they manage to have all those troops from a fresh-built city?

Their original starting units respawn when they townlessly found their capital. You could say that the game starts over for that particular AI.

Good story and good game.

I had a very similar early war with the Greeks, except the stupid suckers didn't even send 1 hoplite. I do wonder how the heck you could get Corinth in your first peace treaty? You mentioned it took 4 warriors to kill 3 archers (which incidently sounds much more favorable than the sourness of my early battles; I may have been at a point where there was around 50% chance that I would keep all my towns) so how could the Greeks get the idea that you were so much more powerful than they were? Usually at this level they will have many more troops early on through wanton pop-rushes etc.

tR1cKy · Mar 5, 2012

Megalou said:
Their original starting units respawn when they townlessly found their capital. You could say that the game starts over for that particular AI.

D'OH! I thought it only happens when a civ respawns.

About the city, i agree it's kind of surprising. I just loaded the save right after the peace treaty. At that precise point, my military is weaker, in the power graph i'm roughly equal and in the score graph i'm slightly ahead of them.

I suppose it's because of their higher number of casualties. Apart from the 3 archers, they lost 3 warriors in the sneak-attack and a warrior+settler pair immediately after.

GOTM119 - Final Spoiler

civ_steve

Deity

GOTM 119 Final Spoiler - Babylon, Game Submitted

donsig

Low level intermediary

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

Attachments

Raliuven

Emperor

del62

Deity

Memento

The World is mine

tR1cKy

taking over the world

Attachments

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

tR1cKy

taking over the world

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