GOTM132 Greece - Final Spoiler - Game submitted or abandoned

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GOTM132 Greece - Final Spoiler - Game submitted or abandoned.

This thread takes up your story from the first spoiler, and gives you the opportunity to avail us of your insights and mastery of the game as you storm to victory by conquest. Or you can just tell us what happened.

It's the usual drill. No reading or writing until you have submitted or abandoned your game.
 
I took out the Romans as soon as I had horses and before they could link up their iron. The Russians got reduced easily to a ghost of their former selves not too long after that. But I'd taken too long by now and was slipping behind everyone around me on techs, size and culture. In fact, one of my coastal cities in Ottoman reach spontaneously converted to them - a worrying wake-up call!

I ran for cavalry as I fell further and further behind. Almost everyone was angry with me as I swept through Egypt. I took a couple of false allies hostage as I went. But everyone was getting so strong that I could see the game wasn't going to end with a cavalry victory. Indeed, despite trying to flood my continent with cavalry, and then tanks, I still couldn't subdue it without modern armour!

I was getting worried, as I knew Iroquois and Ottomans were both building space ships and I hadn't even started on their continent! By 1640 I was ready to cross the northern channel. Despite being technologically behind, by now I was pretty pumped up on modern armour. Using my continent as a massive modern armour factory, I began a scorched earth policy on the new continent (aside from token cities with luxuries and wonders).

By not harrassing the Ottomans on my own continent, I'd persuaded them not only to help me subdue their own continent, but give me a right of passage. Their spaceship was nearing readiness, I was getting desperate... You can guess what came next... 1758: a long night of shame... Why can't AI recognise that 40 modern armour next to their capital is a threat even with a right of passage agreement? Their spaceship was instant ashes; still, it took 20 years to wipe them out, leaving only Spain - a late maturing threat - to overcome in a fight ending at last in 1794.

Epic, bloody, exhausting! How does anyone complete a conquest like this much earlier??!! I look forward to finding out from others of you.
 
Conquest in 1615AD, Jason score 6K+

What a long game. I am sure someone with more tolerance for micromanaging can pull off a date a couple of hundred years earlier. A suggestion for the next Conquest win condition might be to keep the map size a little smaller.

With 14AIs the tech pace was very fast up until the industrial age where it started to slow down. I had hoped to be able to stop research at Cavalry but the slow pace of conquest and the rapid research meant I had to keep going. I was finally able to throttle down research once I got tanks. Though for awhile it looked like I would have to go for modern armor just to speed things up.

Because I was a Republic, war weariness forced me to take some time off from conquest to allow my economy to come back to life. I pondered a civics change but checking the economy tab on Civ Assist convinced me to stay as a Republic.

Conquest order - Rome, Russia, Egypt, China, France, America, Persia, India, Ottomans, Iroquois, Celts, and finally Spain. Aztecs and Mongols were destroyed by other AIs though I was at war with them. None of the above involved a ROP violation until the very end when I signed with Spain and Iroquois to facilitate a quicker ending.
I did make alliances throughout the game to keep AIs at war with each other but no one AI became to powerful. Persia came close but masses of cavalry and artillery reduced them very quickly. Cities on the other continent were razed except for those containing Wonders as I wanted to avoid having them flip back to their previous owners or going over the domination limit inadvertently. At the end I had 132 cities which were mostly on the original continent.

I entered the industrial age around 880AD getting Steampower (monopoly) and then trading for Nationalism which in my experience is extremely rare, then medicine.
Techs from there Electricity, RP, Industrialism, SM, Corp. ToE gave me AT and Electricity. Refining and Steel were traded for while I researched Radio, then Combustion, MP, Flight, and Mot Trans. Modern Age gave me Ecology so modern armor wasn't that far off but it would have meant slowing down the war effort. I just shut down research and had to use the Lux slider at near maximum to keep from going into anarchy. The side techs were traded for except Amphib War which the AI wasn't willing to trade or give in peace.

I never built a hospital so none of my cities were over pop 12, which probably lowered my score a little bit. Somewhere I read the factors taken into account calculating score and what weight the various factors had. The big one is score is averaged over every turn (IIRC) thus the quicker you get going the better your score and the earlier the finish is better than having an empire twice the size later.
 
Increasing your score after the conquest win. (Before ending your turn) Yes you can. As for how much, read further...
Score appears to be calculated at the beginning of the turn after conquest, not the end of the turn you eliminated the last AI.

I prompted this discussion in the 1st spoiler for this game and decided to do some investigating.

You must conquer the last enemy AI. It is true that if you go over the domination limit, that will be given as your victory condition.

Before ending your turn settle as many cities as you can. Take up all available land. In this game I stopped making settlers when I got to 40. I could have used another 20 or so.

Increase your Lux slider to 100%, if you have enough cash to allow it. The only reason not to, I imagine, would be if you were going to discover a tech on the next turn. Though I didn't investigate how much another tech would produce in score.

Change any pending city builds so that you can complete a building that generates happy faces at the start of the next turn. I was able to produce a few more temples and marketplaces, of course If I had built them earlier...
I also did not spend any gold to rush those that were close, micromanaging your expenses to allow you to do this might have eked out a few more happy faces. You could do so by reducing expenses by disbanding enough units so that you weren't paying for any.

Settle every worker you can in a city that will not reach a high enough population to make any of them content or unhappy.

and.....

stats:--------- score --- happy --- specialists --- territory
submitted game---6459 --- 1411.6 --- 165.9 ---- 2706.8
"tweaked" game---6470 --- 1415.4 --- 165.9 ---- 2713.6

In this case the "tweaked" game did not have everything maximized as I wrote above. I would have had to go back a few turns and build more settlers. I worked with what I had after the last AI was eliminated. I am not sure if the number of specialists changed or if it is even factored into the score.

So you see, I could have gained a minimum of 11 points in score (with a slight corresponding increase in the Jason score) Truly maximizing everything might have led to a 20 point increase!

Why such a small increase? I assume it is due to the fact that scoring is averaged across turns and not based just on the last turn.

Hardly an earth shattering result, but interesting. I assume the same kind of trick would work for any victory condition to increase your score ever so slightly.

Edit: Doesn't the ship to AC launch as soon as you have completed the last part? In which case, none of these things will help.
 
Republic era (610 BC - onwards)

As Rome didn't bother to hook up iron, it couldn't last long. They were reduced to OCC in 570 BC, then i parked a small force nearby to wait for their last city to become rank 2. Meanwhile i took up on Russia, but they were still suffering for a prolonged war with America in which they must have whipped like crazy, because their size-1 town couldn't even afford to grow. The towns in question were autorazed, and i had to play blockade with a pesky egyptian settler to prevent it from planting a city right in the middle of my supply line. Oh, did i mention that Russia was almost completely unroaded? Bah, stupid AS.

Anyway, their weak defenses were quickly overrun and i also got a leader that i used to rush Sun Tzu in Moscow. Pairs from China, India, France, America and Korea did show up in an attempt to fill the gaps, and since i badly needed workers i ended up declaring war to everyone except for Egypt for the sole purpose of turning their settlers into slaves.

By 250 BC my research into Chivalry is complete, and with the help of several hundred golds of savings i could perform a mass-upgrade of horsemen. Forces were split in two according to the original plan. On the north-western front my advance was steady. Paris (with Pyramids) was captured without much hassle and by 300 AD the whole western campaign is over.

On the NE front, things went smoothly as well until i hit on Persia: not only they managed to research Gunpowder, but apparently they upgraded their whole defensive force into musketmen, and for when i reach there their cities were all past size 6. Fortunately, i had been sending the majority of my knights on that front, but even so it wasn't easy. Persepolis had 6 muskets defending it, and it took 15 knights to knock them down.

Persia was also my choice for the 2nd core. I built my FP city in 190 AD with a combat settler, hooking up gems and opening a way for my knights to perform a blitzkrieg move on Persepolis, which was captured in the same turn. Here's a shot taken in the middle of the attack. Once the Persian war is over, Ctesiphon will be the center of a massively productive core:

attachment.php


There's only one thing wrong with that: i cannot build the Forbidden Palace! For now, i was expecting to have a spare leader to spend on the FP immediately, but in spite of about 30 elite victories the 2nd leader has yet to come! Only in 300 AD the Forbidden Palace could be built, just one turn before Persia was finally assimilated.

The northern forces are immediately reused for a pinch manoeuver against India. Meanwhile, i'm amassing a 2nd army in the south to strike at Egypt. India falls in a handful of turns and a part of the northern army is rerouted south to help against Egypt, while the more distant part is amassed on the Persian coast to be shipped to Aztecia. As Egypt goes down, knights are also amassed on the Roman to prepare for a second front against the Ottomans.

In 470 AD Egypt is gone. Two turns later the first battles are fought on the far landmass. On the southern front things go smoothly, but the northern front is a different story. Aztecia is stuffed with muskets and a bad SOUR at Tenochtitlan chokes my offensive for a few turns. In 540 AD Military Tradition is researched, more than 60 knights are upgraded and, from now on, the surviving AS are basically dead meat. The two fronts meet in 680 AD, where they take over the two remaining Iroquois city. At this point only Spain remains, but my cavalries are already in place and Spain is taken over completely in a single, bloody turn.

The end result is a Conquest in 690 AD, with 10490 Firaxis and 11127 Jasons.

On a side note, the terrible luck with leaders persisted for the whole game. I got only two more leaders, both of them in the very final turns. Ironically, the more useful has been the last one, created in 670 AD, because it formed a cavalry army that "ate" a good part of a second SOUR against the last Iroquois stronghold, preventing the enemy muskets from leveling up.


Here's the MA tech log:

_825bc: Monotheism (scientific bonus); Feudalism (trade, Russia); Engineering (trade, Persia);
_650bc: Republic (research);
_490bc: Monarchy (trade, India)
_250bc: Chivalry (research);
__50bc: Invention (trade, Aztecs)
_190ad: Education (trade, Egypt); Gunpowder (trade, India);
_410ad: Music Theory (research); Chemistry (trade, Celts); Astronomy, Printing Press (trade, Spain);
_480ad: Metallurgy (research); Navigation (trade, Iroquois);
_540ad: Military Tradition (research);


And the kill log:

_370bc: Rome
_190bc: Russia
__50ad: China
_110ad: America
_300ad: France
_310ad: Persia
_370ad: India
_470ad: Egypt
_560ad: Ottoman
_600ad: Aztecs
_620ad: Celts
_670ad: Mongolia
_680ad: Iroquois
_680ad: Spain
 

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AS THE GREEK EMPIRE marched into war, it did so with a plan. The first
movement was due north to Rome, whose land was needed for an extended
core. As Rome had connected Iron and possessed some Legionaries,
strong in the defense, Swordsmen and some elite Horsemen made up the
centre force, while the flanks were guarded with other Horsemen. Rome
fell in 730 BC. It flipped back to Rome in 690 BC, and the Roman
nation was finally annihilated in 490 BC.

AFTER MOPPING UP the remains of the Roman so-called empire, the Greek
intended to progress according to the following plan: A strong army of
Horsemen and later Knights would attack Russia, China, America and
then Persia, following the coast of Mare Nostrum clockwise. A second
wave would take care of France and India and join the other troops in
Persia. They could from there be shipped over to Aztec lands if
needed.

GALLEYS, in the mean time, would be hoarded on the eastern coast of
Greece in preparation for a counter-clockwise invasion of the
Ottomans, the Celts, Spain, the Mongols, the Iroquois and the Aztecs,
the starting point of which was to coincide with the beginning of a
Golden Age during which a much higher production of troops would
suffice to support two fronts.

THE THIRD FRONT would towards the end be opened against Egypt in order
to make use of troops being produced in Greece at a time when the
first and second front were at such a far distance, that new troops
would never reach any of them on time.

FOR THE PRODUCTION OF TROOPS, the Greek planned to utilise the method
of connecting and disconnecting a source or Iron in order to be able
to build Horsemen, partly by short-rushing, and then upgrade them to
Knights for gold.

IN 730 BC, JUST AS ROME WAS CAPTURED by the military, Greek diplomats
were busy laying the grounds for the continued conquest. They were
able to purchase the knowledge of Currency and Construction from other
tribes, which caused Greek historians to proclaim the entry into a new
Age and Greek philosophers to discover the knowledge of
Engineering. In the wake of this progress, the knowledge of Monotheism
and Feudalism could be learned from other scientific tribes. But this
was not all.

THE FOREIGN OFFICE IN ATHENS immediately unleashed a devlish
plan. Embassies were established with all tribes on the other
continent. War was declared on the Ottomans, Spain and the Iroquois
and military alliances tied to peace deals were formed with the Celts
against the Ottomans, with the Mongols against Spain and with the
Aztecs against the Iroquois. In this way, the Greek Foreign Minister,
a certain Più Freddo, hoped to gain domestic popularity and support
for the wars the moment the allied nations sued for peace with the
common enemy.

DURING THE ROMAN CAMPAIGN, the construction of a Forbidden Palace in
the city of Pharsalos was finished in 610 BC. This would enable the
Greek nation to found a second homeland without losing the first
one. A Great Leader, Pyrrhus, emerged in 570 BC, but since no suitable
city had yet been captured for the construction of a new Palace, he
helped speed up the construction of Sun Tzu's Art of War instead. The
Greek could now sell all their old Barracks. In the same year, 530 BC,
a trade route for Ivory was opened and the art of Chivalry discovered.
Twenty years earlier the Celts had declared war on Greece, to the
greater merriment of the populace.

AS ROME WAS DESTROYED in 490 BC, Greece declared war on Russia. Since
Russia had build a Great Wall in Moscow, the Greek generals decided to
send troops over sea, using the Galleys being made ready for the
Ottoman campaign, directly to Moscow. Aztecs and Mongols declared war
in 230 BC, causing increased merriment and frollicking on Greek
streets, and in 210 BC Moscow was captured with its Great Wall, which
henceforth would protect Greek cities. The way was open to send troops
over land. The war with China began in 150 AD.

A SECOND GREAT LEADER emerged in 30 BC, who built a Palace in
St. Petersburg. This was not a perfect location, surrounded by Jungle,
Deserts and water as it was, but it was available. The first core
expanded from RCP3 to DCP5 and Shanghai and Moscow were productive
cities in the new core.

AS THE PALACE WAS READY in 10 BC, another Great Leader emerged on the
Chinese front. It never rains, but it pours, said Più Freddo, a field
marshal in the Greek army. He immediately made peace with China in
return for the knowledge of Invention. A mere twenty years later,
Leonardo's Workshop stood in Halicarnassus and war was redeclared on
China.

GREECE HAD NOW attacked the Ottomans overseas after having shipped
over Knights for some time to uninhabited parts of the Ottoman
peninsula and so opened the second front. Purposfully pushing outdated
phalanxes of Hoplites in the first line, the Greek generals were
hoping for yet another popular event for consumtion on the home
front.

FINALLY, in the year 110 AD, a Hoplite was involved in a fight, which
it didn't fail to win. For the next 270 years, Greece would enjoy a
Golden Age. In the same year, Persia declared war, China was destroyed
and the fourth Great Leader emerged in the Greek army. As the Greek
government was running out of options, they used his services to
construct a Marketplace in a core city.

THE LAST AMERICAN CITY was captured in 150 AD, but the American nation
lived on as boat refugees. The Greek decided to leave them in peace
until they set foot on land again, and made peace with America. Yet
another Great Leader built yet another Marketplace twenty years
later.

THE GREEK WAR PLAN UNFOLDED to its full extent. Great Leaders kept
coming but had no real impact. A brief extract of the annals follows:

250 AD Destroy America
250 AD Peace Ottomans
250 AD Learn Gunpowder
260 AD Flip Pasargadae with plenty of troops
260 AD Emerge Great Leader Ajax
280 AD Capture Paris with The Colossus and The Great Lighthouse
290 AD War India War Happiness!
300 AD Capture Madrid with The Oracle
320 AD Destroy Ottomans
320 AD Destroy Spain
330 AD AI discovers Chemistry
340 AD Destroy Celts
380 AD Destroy France
380 AD Exit Golden Age
390 AD Destroy India
390 AD Capture Karakorum with The Pyramids
390 AD Peace Mongols End War Happiness
400 AD Emerge Great Leader
410 AD Capture Persepolis with The Hanging Gardens
420 AD Destroy Mongols
430 AD Emerge Great Leader
430 AD Destroy Persia
450 AD War Egypt
470 AD Build Heroic Epic
470 AD Flip St. Regis
470 AD Capture Tenochtitlan with The Great Library
470 AD Learn Chemistry
470 AD Learn Theology
470 AD Learn Education
470 AD Learn Astronomy
470 AD Learn Banking
480 AD Emerge Great Leader
490 AD Build Sistine Chapel
490 AD Emerge Great Leader
490 AD Flip Teotihuacan
490 AD Flip El-Amarna
500 AD Build Copernicus' Observatory​

IN THE YEAR 500 AD, Greece had reached an extended land area exceeding
2/3 of all known lands and most persons were indeed Greek. The
authorities now started razing unimportant cities in order to limit
the land area belonging to Greece. The last Iroquois city was
captured, but again boat refugees escaped the Greek army.

THE HISTORY OF THE AZTECS ended in 510 AD and that of the Egyptians
ten years later, at which time the Iroquois refugees were finally
located. An initial attack by a Caravel failed, but the Galley was
sunk ten years later perfecting the Greek Conquest of the World, which
was registered in 540 AD.

Firaxis score: 10137
Jason score: 11105
 
Thank you all, especially Piu Fredo, for the detailed history of this game. I discovered there a lot of tactics I did not knew :
- connecting/disconnecting iron source
- destroying some cities,
- overseas war with allies to create war happiness...

I'm still no familiar with the moving of my palace during the game.
 
- destroying some cities

Otherwise, I would have had a Domination victory.

CivAssist tells you how many tiles are left to the domination limit, which is 2/3 of the useful tiles, i.e. not counting Ocean and Sea. (And a fraction of world population.)
 
As usual, my military skills pale in comparison to those as the top. Well done! Below is a brief log of who got killed and when. For the civs I didn't personally dispatch, their executioner is listed:

390Ad Rome Dead
490AD FP in Thebes
560AD Egypt Dead
570AD First Cavalry
600AD Russians Dead
610AD Spanish Dead (Mongols)
650AD Mongols Dead (Iroquois)
650AD Indians Dead (Persians)
740AD China Dead
820AD France Dead
850AD America Dead
900AD First city captured on other continent
920AD Celts Dead (Ottomans)
1020AD Persians Dead, home continent clear
1210AD Iroquois Dead
1230AD Ottomans Dead
1275AD Aztecs Dead
1280AD Conquest Victory


Ultimately, the amount of rifles I ended up having to face put a real damper on my end date. It also took a while to carve through the Ottomans as they had become the dominant power on their continent.
 
Più Freddo;13174549 said:
Otherwise, I would have had a Domination victory.

CivAssist tells you how many tiles are left to the domination limit, which is 2/3 of the useful tiles, i.e. not counting Ocean and Sea. (And a fraction of world population.)

Yes, You right, and I forgot that the Conquest victory condition was the one to follow, so I stupidly won with Domination... :-(
 
_410ad: Music Theory (research);

:confused: In a Conquest game you researched Music Theory? :eek:

@greatbeyond: interesting analysis about the extra last-turn points! I've been using the "trick" of joining all workers to small towns already for a while, though I don`t do it in the last turn, but already a few turns earlier, when victory gets into sight and the workers won't make a difference any more for the victory date. I guess that would even be better than joining them last turn?!
 
:confused: In a Conquest game you researched Music Theory? :eek:

I understand it may sound odd :D But when the AS are technologically on par with you and they have a decent research potential (as it's often the case at Emperor level and above), Music Theory may net you Chemistry, Astronomy and Banking all at once.

In this particular case, i started on MT when i saw some AS having Chemistry, then some other AS completed Astronomy. I wanted them both and got them both.

It doesn't always work, of course, and one has to be careful. If the AS do not have the necessary research capability, going for MT is usually just a waste of turns.
 
if MT=Music Theory; in case MT=Military Tradition then it is hardly ever a waste of turns :) :hammer:
t_x
 
In any case: did you make good use of "MT" by building or rushing Bach's Cathedral? That might be the explanation why you had a higher Jason score despite a significantly slower finish date?! (More and happier population!)
 
the mastering of the "MT techs" in a military game is... pun intended... tricky. :)
in my current triell against Calis and Elephantium (stories of Calis and myself on civforum.de) in an AW setting i researched MT=Music Theorey and even built Bach´s. from then, it would need another half an age to see whether i could survive the headstart of the other players towards MT=Military Tradition... if one wants to know how things turned out, you will have to read our stories though (but be careful with responses so to avoid spoilers, the game is still running!)
:)
t_x
 
LOL, i pretty much figured it out :)

The question: i rushed Bach's with leader #3 in the very late game, in a former Ottoman city. It is safe to say that it did have at least a marginal impact in the final score, but way too small to account for my victory in spite of being 15 turns late from PF's date (nice one, btw).

What made the difference is likely to be the happy population. I built markets in every core city (and also in a few non-core ones), then maxed out most of them to size 12. At the end, the share of the base score provided by happy people was close to the part provided by the territory.
 
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