Gotm16-Rome Map Feedback

[cracker]

This thread is designed to solicit general and specific map comments From the players on the big picture view of the map of Gotm16-Rome.

What we would like to ask you to do is to try to look at the map as a controlling element of the game play and then to help us assess how the map made the game feel special.

In any comments that you post we would like to ask that you try and and identify at least two things that the map may have helped you to expereince or two strategic play concepts that the map may have helped you to experience more clearly than you may have experienced in past games.

We will use these comments to help us decide how well some of the features of the gotm16 game may have worked with different types of players.

Try not to let your personal assessment of the skill or success of your own personal play style effect your ability to help us assess how this map worked in a number of important areas. We value your opinion.

Please read the choices carefully above an then choose the response that best describes your overall assessment of the Gotm16-Rome Map.

(here is a link to more details about the Gotm16-Rome map if you would like to refresh your memory or compare the designed features to your notes and play events:


Complete description of the Gotm16-Rome map and MOD game. )

 

[Karasu]

At least two things... (K summoning all his mental strength... in vain!).

You know I am just getting back from a flu attack that lead me to test some extreme body temperature (man, never got it SO bad that I remember...).

But, having voted in an incontrollable rush of enthusiasm for seeing the new poll, I'll try to give you an answer.

One not-so "strategic play concept" was my first game in a map that I knew someone else had more or less designed. It was strange to play with the feeling that your hand lay behind those coastlines and inland seas...

I felt the challenge to be placed, on purpose, in the least favourable position to get contact with the other civs. A posteriori, there were means to get around this that I failed to explore.

I was also given a "barbarian henhouse" to use as I saw fit. I did some experiments with this, which proved quite interesting.

There are a few more things that came to my mind when I was playing, but my mind is nowhere to be found at the moment. I hope I contributed to the discussion, anyway...

 

[Justus II]

The Barbarian Divide forced me to beg, borrow, and steal contacts with the other continent, which was interesting. The 'risky trade' aspect I must have missed, but that may explain why I had several deals get cut off, and ended up having to go on a "Cash Basis" for buying techs from the middle ages on. Probably an unintended consequence, but an important one, and a great learning experience, I generally play pretty honorable and have never really had to face that much of an uphill fight in trading. I had already extorted contacts by the time I landed on the ridge, so it wasn't helpful from that extent, but the luxuries were quite valuable.

Another aspect of the map that was significant for me, but also maybe not as intended, was the way each civ on my continent filled their areas so we were 'layered'. Facing only one front line, (I thought) I could engage them sequentially, with the others as buffers. However, Germany demanded tribute early, and was able to walk right through America and Japan, creating a major battlefield in the mountains near the ebur. Even after I had defeated the Japanese, I still had to march through American territory to retake American cities from the Germans before I could get a peace deal. It was still a different campaign than if I could have reached them directly.

 

[civ_steve]

The Barbarian Ridge definitely made the game interesting. I did not do much with it (unlike many others), but since it acts as a barrier to the East, it is important for Rome to develop a port on the Western edge of the continent.

The mixture of the races also made the game interesting. Since there are so many civs on the 2nd continent in close proximity to each other, it is a bit of a challenge not to be too far behind in technology. In my game I focused more on my Commercial attribute and ended up being in a good position to make the trades to keep me close. Eventually the large mix of civs lead to a continent wide war, which I side-stepped. While they were pre-occupied I finished my spaceship and launched.

 

[ControlFreak]

I really liked the aspect of having a mountain range completely dividing the map. You don't expect this and it was some heavy duty rethinking in strategy.

I only had ports on the eastern shore but I reused my canal forming cities from GOTM14 to provide a passage from the East to the West. It added a few turns to naval transport but I didn't have to worry which coastal town my transports and battleships were being built.

 

[LKendter]

I wasted a fortune in effort trying to go east past barb islands for first contact. This is critical at the higher levels. However, I wasted so much effort on this it took me ages to feel ready to attempt domination resulting in a later finish and lower score.

The mystery of the map I can't understand - How could we trade with the other continent before astronomy? I did get screwed with a bad rep for 40+ turns because of some mystery breakage.

 

[ControlFreak]

@LK

Yeah I wonder that too.

I got offered a luxury deal by Babylon and took it. The next turn the trade route was severed and so was my rep. Couldn't buy techs for gpt for the rest of the game.

I wonder if the trade route calculator crossed the mountain gap that galleys couldn't? I the supected that greece's border expanded over the gap and babylon lost their passage rites in a war. Either that or they lost their harbor city. Really screwed me. I would have check the trade route before making the deal but it was offered to me and I couldn't turn him down for fear of not being able to grab the lux on my turn.

 

[alamo]

Voted most exciting - it was my first serious attempt at GOTM, but I have been browsing the forum enough to recognize the new features. I liked the squid, barbs and the unique geography.

Unfortunately, my 1.29 worked into a lock condition about 3/4 the way through and I could not dislodge it. I am much happier to do the PTW version for GOTM17, which was more interesting still.

The AI didn't quite know how to deal with the geography, I think. Germany built a huge Navy in the narrow sea, even though nobody else was building a fleet on that side.

 

[ControlFreak]

@alamo

I agree that the AI had some difficulties dealing with the freak terrain layout. I wonder if Cracker understands the mechanics of why the AI rarely settled on the barbarian island. It seemed like a logical place to go, especially since they usually hunt down all the barb camps.

Was it that they always underestimated the barb strength and actually tried to hit the camp with archer after archer after archer, each being slaughtered the turn they landed?

 

[ControlFreak]

Just a thought:

Did any of the terraformers (like Moonsinger for example) try to knock down the mountains on the barb island?

 

[Takeo]

I very much enjoyed the map, especially the barbarian ridge! It was nice having the bottlenecks on our island, to block while i healed and supplemented my army.
tryed to vote, but it said my session was invalid?

Takeo

 

[pterrok]

Since I try not to make ANY assumptions about the map until I've explored, I voted it was no big deal. Obviously the great divide affected the game, but so do odd features on randomly generated maps--though not to the extent of this one, of course!

This map also tried to hammer home the concept of 'canal cities' but I DID learn my lesson from Russia! <g>

I'm isolationist by nature; since I saw the land-mass I started on was large I didn't even worry about the other civs until well into the game. (Except England who had snuck across!)

It looked like you deliberately placed a narrowing up north so we could build Hadrian's wall to help keep the Germans out, but I never got around to building the fortifications on it. America or Germany was ahead in techs and attacked me right around that area; I beat them back and I took control there--THEN I found out they were probably going for the rubber (or was it oil?) south of the gap. So it looks like that may have been tweaked to cause a war for resources...

 

[Ambiorix]

I found the map very interesting and fun to play, but some of the concepts were beyond me. The fun came partly from being capable at the START of the game that this was indeed a map that was personalised for Rome : 7 hills and wine nearby. Later on there were the Alps, complete with Como-lake. I never did manage to call the mediterranean mine, but the sealed-off sea was a nice concept.

What I did NOT understand was the whole risky-trade issue. I can understand that a trade route to the east exists because of the non-ocean tiles cutting the barbarian ridge, but what is the risk factor ? Can a barbarian cut off the route by standing on a mountaintop nearby ? Doesn't sound likely. Can the route be blocked when Greece's borders expand ? Only when you're at war with Greece, I suppose. Is there anything I'm missing on this topic ?

 

[Aggie]

In general like the map a lot. Especially the level of detail that was spent to have a Rome-like starting position. I've got two remarks though:

I didn't care for the great divide very much. No-one but me founded cities on it and since it had a lot of resources/luxuries, I felt that it influenced the game too much - in favor of the human player. The AI couldn't handle the divide.

I also didn't like the fact that it was possible to build at the ridges of the map. I would have been nice if that was made impossible with a mountain range or something...

 

[Darkness]

Even though I haven't finished the game (RL got in the way), I think the map was one of the most interesting maps I ever played....

 

[task48]

I didnt realize something until very late in the game: I colonized the ridge as early as I could, with the intent of launching naval assaults from the greek side... I think I had five cities there before I realized there was not a single beach to carry out my plan (I literally smacked myself in the head lol). The americans and the germans made for several interesting wars. I'm sure someone has already tried this and wrote about it here, but when I was losing to the germans after the americans were conquered, I decided to give away all my border cities (most of them captured american cities) to my closest friends, and then to some of my enemies on the other continent. My hope was to distract the germans into fighting wars with the other civs while I built up my military... it did work too, the germans wanted those cities bad and declared war on many and pulled in the others from mpp's. They quickly took the cities, but I knew they had ruined any trade agreements they had had and once they were back at me I was ready for them
I've only played one game this large before, and never finished it... this without a doubt was the most fun I've had with civ3 so far!

 

[hbdragon88]

cracker, you assume a lot that we play with some strategy or judge what we do by the map. I find it hard to vote because my navy was limited (once the last galley sunk, the navy was over with) and I simply bought all my communications from the Japs instead of going to the continent.

Even still, I will try to give a specific answer.

I say the ridge presented a huge obstacle for me. At first I tried to send galleys over the five-square sea lane but then I eventually went up the coast. Not knowing that there was a ridge there I was going up and up and then hit a couple of squids going north (the galley didn't stand a chance). When going south, I hit three squids.

I learned some things but it was too much of a challenge to me.