[C3C] News: COTM 169 - Arabs

[Più Freddo]

This was a very funny and quick game. I have submitted a ConDom victory. Now back to the final of the prolonged Greek slog game...

 

[SayHayKid]

I was delayed by a handful of turns due to the graphical glitch of playing via WINE where none of the lines on the diplomacy screen show up. I was cleaning up the map for a domination victory, attacked a weak civ to push me over the top, and they had MPP with two other Civs. I had just finished wiping out a Civ and was a little shorthanded. One of the Civs in the MPP was the other strong Civ, but with fresh units. Doh! Luckily I only needed a few percentage of land area. So, I only needed to take a couple of cities and not hold them long or be in a protracted war. I was able to get over the hump before the full counterattack.

I hadn't played with the Arabs in awhile. Those 3MP for their UU was nice. It segued nicely into a Cavalry rush. I tried my hardest not to let my builder tendencies take over and just build military units (for the most part). It was an interesting map after the first ring.

This time I better remembered the unmodded stats of units. So, I think I did better than the last one with Greece which was my first Demigod game and my first unmodded game in a looooong time.

 

[Più Freddo]

Some random notes from my game:

I stopped research after Navigation and the AI actually invented Invention, allowing me to upgrade my old Archers built to solve the initial Barbarian problem, but never Gunpowder, so I didn't meet any stronger defenders that the initial Hoplites. (You did that on purpose, templar_x!) I got two Military Great Leaders, the second one quite late, which both formed Armies.

Edit: I guess there were one or two Swiss Guards...

I had a bottleneck with too few Caravels at a time, so I built Knights Templar, thinking that an investment in getting more units later, when the ships had been built, would pay off, but the Crusaders eventually produced never saw any real action because of the great distances. Same for the Longbowmen.

I also captured The Statue of Zeus in Athens one turn after it was finished, and the Ancient Cavalry caused me some mistakes, as they look very similar to Ansar Warriors and I sometimes tried to move them three tiles, with the last move of course mis-moving the following Unit. I should have collected them all in one direction and kept them separate from the Ansar Warriors.

By luck in initial city placement, all cities in the core (but one) produced 60-shield Ansar Warriors efficiently: 20 spt, 16 spt (losing one shield per unit), 10 spt, 6 spt and 3 spt. I short-rushed using MI/Settler/MI/Settler. No rush in the coastal 3 spt town. I moved the Settler to a central position before founding the Capital and had a four-turner running for quite some time. RCP3, Forbidden Palace in the hilly north. I never jumped the palace. Even the Egyptian lands, which were the best for the purpose and captured early, were pretty undeveloped until the end, as I had a dearth of Workers at all times, which is typical for this level. Too few captured slaves.

One more edit: With RCP3 i mean approximately three tiles away from the capital. It was actually decided by the map. There's no RCP in COTM.

 

[BlackBetsy]

OK, LOL that was an awful starting position. Its so funny, I usually play HOF games with at least 1 if not 2 river cow starts with lots of rivers. I have been playing Diplo a lot lately so I figured I'd submit a Diplo victory but LOL so slow.....

I did wipe out the Greeks and Egyptians for giggles, although the Egyptians were pretty difficult for a Regent AI.

 

[templar_x]

..., so I didn't meet any stronger defenders that the initial Hoplites. (You did that on purpose, templar_x!)

sure i did. it is only Regent, after all, and you guys really deserve that extra challenge...
t_x

 

[Captain_Jack]

I acheived a histographic victory, which is probably something few of you have ever resorted to. The lack of water and resources in the south was frustrating, but up north was a cornucopia. I eventually got the Iron Works in the Greek city with Bach's Cathedral, and after I conquered the continent (in the 19th century) I was secure. It took me until the 20th century to get a secure tech lead, but even then there were techs I could trade for.
It was an enjoyable game. Thanks to Templar_X!

 

[Spoonwood]

Spoiler :

Maybe not optimal overall. But, the mine finished 2 turns ago to get 10 shields into Mecca. And we have an exact Colossus build (I clicked "No. We should reconsider.):

 

[Spoonwood]

3 cities on Regent. And...

Spoiler :

But, I didn't figure out to leave huts by my home area.

 

[Spoonwood]

Why would you ever spend 80 gold on a worker in your capital?

Spoiler :

 

[choxorn]

3 cities on Regent. And...

Spoiler :

View attachment 707922

But, I didn't figure out to leave huts by my home area.

I got a city from the exact same hut, which is either a wild coincidence or some sort of random seed pre-determination.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I got a city from the exact same hut, which is either a wild coincidence or some sort of random seed pre-determination.

It's not that wild of a coincidence. On Regent, if you aren't building a settler or don't have a live settler, there is about a 30% chance of popping a Settler/City if your number of cities is at or below the average number of cities. So assuming the conditions are the same (they must have been), it's really about a 30% chance of it happening. (It's 30% and not 9% because you wouldnt have said anything if you hadn't popped the settler from the hut )

Whats more rare is @Spoonwood only having 3 cities and not producing a settler or not having a settler walking at that point.......

 

[templar_x]

Spoiler :

Maybe not optimal overall. But, the mine finished 2 turns ago to get 10 shields into Mecca. And we have an exact Colossus build (I clicked "No. We should reconsider.): View attachment 707921

Will this be the first time you submit an XOTM game, or did I just not yet notice?
t_x

 

[Spoonwood]

Will this be the first time you submit an XOTM game, or did I just not yet notice?
t_x

I submitted one played with The Zulu a long time ago. I think I did a spaceship game.

 

[Spoonwood]

Spoiler :

One of my advisors gave me funny advice about building The Iron Works:

Alright, maybe it's not quite as silly of a suggestion as it looks if I rearranged tiles.

 

[Più Freddo]

Spoiler :

One of my advisors gave me funny advice about building The Iron Works:View attachment 708041
Alright, maybe it's not quite as silly of a suggestion as it looks if I rearranged tiles.

What city is going to work all those mined Mountains?

 

[Spoonwood]

What city is going to work all those mined Mountains?

We'd need more than one city for all of them to get worked. For sure, I have more mountains mined there than can get used. But, I like having mined mountains over not having them. So, when I play quickly and don't think about what workers are doing, I sometimes end up mine mountains.

Honestly, I have to wonder if some of these mountain patterns were part of the natural map or if @templar_x added extra mountains to this map. Like I see coastal areas that I can't have a city with a harbor use, because of so many mountains. And it's not just one area. Maybe though, it's because this is a 3 billion year old map instead of a 5 billion year old map? Or some territory that could have gotten settled on the original map got deleted?

 

[templar_x]

the mountain range stems from the generated map.
it gave me the basic idea for the general set-up for this game.
i hope you guys liked it. great it could even attract Spoon to compete with us in an XOTM!
t_x

 

[LaSalle]

the mountain range stems from the generated map.
it gave me the basic idea for the general set-up for this game.
i hope you guys liked it. great it could even attract Spoon to compete with us in an XOTM!
t_x

I like the variety of having bad terrain and no rivers on an easy difficulty level. Often the games are a high difficulty level with food and resource bonuses. Both types are a challenge but in a different way.

 

[Spoonwood]

Spoiler :

I didn't build the Great Lighthouse. England built it. They eventually landed a settler and warrior up north near where Greece was. I went to war with them too early. And ended up losing control of my capital for a single turn. There wasn't time to rebuild the Palace there... nor any need for prebuilding anything with The Palace. I eventually put in the harbor when I could cash-rush the offshore platform immediately after. But, I don't think I made up those two turns... or maybe it saved a turn. I forgot that nuclear plants need freshwater to get built in a city. Thebes after getting captured used civil engineers to build The Hoover Dam.

My memory suggests that templar_X has played out XOTM games as if they were something like a puzzle. As if they got designed with a particular victory condition in mind. I remember thinking about that theory before, but I think dismissed it at one point. @LaSalle 's map from the Greek game recently I think disconfirms that for some designers, since I don't believe he was thinking of a 100k game. I think he wanted to make a map based on where he lives instead.

But a hilly and mountainous map with no fresh water fits well with 20k if you ask me. The Colossus has more function when you have no rivers. And there existed plenty of land near the starting area, where getting cities to size 12 was impossible or had to wait until Electricity. So, digging in and going with the slower... turn wise... 20k game I think makes more sense than other victory conditions.

Egypt conquered Greece early. The Arabs did get 2 MGLs in a war with Egypt which got fought when I had cavalry and The Arabs were researching in the industrial era. One MGL for an army, and one for The Heroic Epic. I decided not to try to invade the other continent and get more MGLs. I had tried to spawn on early by letting English units land next to my capital before Navigation. By the time someone had researched Navigation, I decided to trade for it. Then I made guesses at who was trading luxuries to whom using the blue lines in the leaderheads screen. With some wars provoked via military alliances, I think then I managed to trade up to the point that I had 6 luxuries total, and soon after 7 luxuries. The 8th luxury finally became available a few turns before the turn of the above screenshot.

Also, at the end when in the modern era I more came to realize or remember why SGLs exist as a possibility in the base game for Conquests. Because, since they can appear, there's still motivation to research for a 20k game. 20k feels different when there's not as much motivation to research.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Spoonwood]

OK, LOL that was an awful starting position. Its so funny, I usually play HOF games with at least 1 if not 2 river cow starts with lots of rivers.

It definitely didn't initially seem like a top tier map for a high spot on (partially) filled HoF tables. And for some victory conditions it might end up below average also. Though, I don't know the frequency of water sources near starting positions on maps myself. However, I would disagree with it as below average for at least one victory condition. And possibly two.

Spoiler :

At least sometimes 23 shields for an arbitrary city below size 12 without fresh water might have more value than 20 shields for that same arbitrary city with a river. This sort of example proves that the 20k victory is not a gimmick, even though wonders may be gimmicks.

The starting position also has a good amount of grassland. That ends up better for a histographic game than a plains start mixed with desert eventually if we're not going to relocate a capital. But, I think this wasn't a cool, arid map. So perhaps kind of near average for a histographic game if not average or above average, even though it for sure made for a slow starting map.