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GotM23

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Smash, Dec 1, 2002.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    This looks very interesting. Thanks Smash. It should be challenging, much more so if you try an OCC.

    Old n Slow, regardless of OCC, I would not build the Lighthouse right away since you can reach North pole easily. I would only build it if I cannot find any land close to the North pole.

    As for the choice between Colossus and Marco, definitely Colossus, then Marco. I would build Colossus first for 2 reasons. One, the AI is far more likely to attempt them in that order and thus I am more likely to get both. Two, it matters more to get Colossus earlier than to get Marco. Look at it this way: the techs you trade come to you at no research cost but at significant cost to your later research. The later you trade the more techs you have been able to research cheap. There is no point in getting Marco early if you are just going to wait to trade.

    My advice to anyone planning to try an OCC for this one (this may very well include me) is to go for King Richard's as soon as possible.
     
  2. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    That was going to be my second OCC question -- if forced among 2 out of Copes, Shakes, & KRC which to choose? (They seem to arrive around the same time on competitive research paths; similar thoughts with Mike’s, Leo’s, Magellan & Isaac, but I think that two of those are less important in an OCC plan.)

    I agree Ali Ardavan -- Colossus first, primarily due to the competition and Light house may be third -- partly due to reduced need if the caravan routes get filled and stay that way; if Athens turns out to be a hides repeater, then LH becomes much more valuable.
     
  3. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    According to a recent study by Samson over at Apolyton.Net this should be impossible. Try this link:

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69873
     
  4. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    My notes to 1AD are posted on the Spoiler thread today. Trade sucks, primarily due to location (if I read Samson's Supply/Demand analysis correctly over at Apolyton.Net). But I don't think we'll need LightHouse (oops, I'm intruding on the Spoiler...).

    I'm starting with Colossus, as OCC is a tech game and every bit helps. The big problem here is Shields. For OCC you MUST have Copernicus, Newtons, and Shakespeares, but I'd put KingRichards ahead of MarcoPolos in priority, although they fall at different times chronologically. Your city needs lots of Improvements (Temple, Library, Harbor, Marketplace, Aquaduct, Colosseum, University, Bank) and before the trade flows you are short on gold, so building anything will be tough. The nice thing about KingRichards is it applies to ocean as well as land.
     
  5. noughmaster

    noughmaster nough-dist

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    Yes, I think it's a great idea to have a strange start. I always go for Marco Polo's to be the science broker and find out where everyone is. I think a map like this increases its importance.
     
  6. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    I just submitted GOTM 22, so I'll start this one today. My plan is to start the Col whil I'm taking a boat tour around the N pole & see if I can get by w/o LH -- with the shield shortage, I'll have plenty of time to change my mind. Hopefully I'll have trade by the time the first wonder is up so that future wonders will be less risky.

    As much as I love Shake's for the SSC (and OCC) I'm seriously thinking that KRC may be more valuable -- I expect that it will also be more urgent -- but we'll see. In my last game there was no wonder pressure at all (yup, Berlin built 'em all! :D :cool: :D )
     
  7. Willi

    Willi Chieftain

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    A great challenge for occ! I'm impreessed by these settings!
     
  8. Willi

    Willi Chieftain

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  9. Sporty_Thievz

    Sporty_Thievz Chieftain

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    This is a great map :goodjob:
     
  10. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    Any of you OCC masochists want to join me in a rerun match of GOTM23 with the following rules:

    - OCC rules regarding Advanced Tribes
    - build no Harbor
    - no irrigation
    - no use of or transforming to any terrain that generates more than 2 Food (including Farming the Plains)
    - no referring back to your original GOTM23 map to see where the other civs or huts were (honor system, just like GOTM)

    This should allow a maximum of 5 citizens, which should easily be made content without Colosseums,Cathedrals, or Shakespeares. No need for Seafaring, Engineers (although technically you could transform that MuskOx to a Buffalo...) or Refrigeration.

    Sound like fun?
     
  11. Boli

    Boli Warlord

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    This is why I don't like OCC... it almosty sound like you WANT to loose.

    I'm sorry, I just like empires. :)
     
  12. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    ElephantU -- I'm game for the replay -- I think that with the fish & the ox + 2 food for the city, that one can grow to size 8. (Whales pay for them selves; Fish, Ox each add +1, city space adds +2, so that makes four citizens and four extra food; each additional space brings in +1 food, and thus only needs one from the surplus, thus four more for a total of eight.)

    I want to try this on my classic version (but my version is 2.40 -- I'll try to upgrade to 2.42, but if that fails, will go with 2.40). My game on MGE has seen serious awkwardness with the ai, so my giving has been less than recommended. Strangely enough, my power has flucutated through inadequate to moderate, and occaisionally strong, -- thus giving to all may be the better way to go. But in my almost completed MGE OCC game, my begging for dollars has been 98% fruitless -- twice my worshipful alliances were broken off at the first request for aid.

    Seafaring is still needed as a tech (Navigation, which leads to 40+ more techs), as well as Explosives as a tech, but no Engineers (but a None Settler some day for potential pollution.)

    What is the optimal begging philosophy -- every turn, every other turn, every fourth turn?
     
  13. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    Boli: we want a challenge - any bozo can beat the AI...

    Old n Slow: I was framing the restrictions to force us to keep the city as small as possible while still using the Whales. With just the city center and the two Whales there are 2 extra food, so either use ocean squares without Harbor or the Plains square without irrigation. You can use the Fish and MuskOx before you get out of Despotism, but not afterwards cause they are 3 food. The whole point was to stay so small that minimal happiness improvements are needed, and you will always be weaker than everyone. I was interested in the strategy differences this can make, and the potential for allying and begging from everyone.

    Yes, I use 2.42 for easier AI and alliances. Timing the begging seems critical. Other pros seem to use the every other turn strategy, but you have to read the power levels and time your tech gifts too. Another issue is that you may have trouble getting extra commodity caravans if the city size is not changing. Perhaps we need to evolve a strategy of calving off a settler/engineer, disbanding, and WLTCD back after the new caravan is produced. That is one of the things I wanted to experiment with, based on Samson & Solo's analysis of Supply and Demand formulas over at Apolyton.Net.

    I guess we still need the techs, even if we dont need the improvements or units. Oh well. I think I will join the second settler to the city early on, then buy a NONE somewhere later when pollution becomes a problem (if it does...?).

    I'm shooting for taking a shot at it between Christmas and New Years - partly to allow time for forgetting the map.

    How does that sound?
     
  14. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    ElephantU --

    Well, good news & bad news. I read the upgrade regarding 2.41 and 2.42 and each was one small improvement (one was an adjustment for Settlers and the automate function, the other was something regarding heralds -- both aspects inconsequential to me at this time) so I’ll go ahead & use my 2.40 for this one.

    On to the bad news -- I went ahead & started out anyway (I’ve already completed GOTM 23 & sent it on to DoM) & let my city get to size 8 -- (if you want I can shrink it back) but maybe for comparability, feel free to let yours grow to 8 as well. Regarding ‘forgetting’ -- I don’t think that I’ll forget the general layout of major, interesting civ locations any time soon, so waiting won’t make much of a difference. I didn’t keep track of exact hut locations or other nits, so that won’t be an issue either.

    Learned another lesson along the way -- one needs an embassy to get gifts from an ally -- tried twice before establishing said embassy & the worshipful friends were unable to comply. Afterwards, well, the gifts were well received.

    Shrinking & growing the city for commodities? That might be worth trying. I noticed towards the end that a delivery sometimes opened up a slot. Destruction (the sunk boat -(see my write up for GOTM 23)- not recommended) didn’t.

    I’ll need to get a chunk of the replay in before the holidays -- I’m looking forward to some face to face gaming during that time frame. :D
     
  15. johnnymiller

    johnnymiller An Englishman in Exile

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    please forgive my ignorance but what is an OCC...?
    i'm gonna give this game a go but as a (relative) novice i'm not holding out much hope of beating any of you guys.
    thanks
     
  16. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    OCC - One City Challenge.

    Trying to play the game while only having one city.
     
  17. ElephantU

    ElephantU Deity

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    Don't worry about beating anyone; GOTM is mostly a learning and experimenting experience, seeing how others handle the same challenges you face. Read the rules carefully, and once you get to 1AD check out the Spoiler thread for how others are doing. Check out some of the previous spoilers for how to keep a decent log, which will allow you to compare your progress and decisions with others. There are some variations in each game, particularly in AI attitudes and Barbarians, some of which you can compensate for. Read others logs and learn lots of tricks and strategies, dont be afraid to ask questions or explanations.
     

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