GOTM45 spoiler thread

[Stardimple]

OK mate thanks for the help, I guess I'm just not used to giving my techs away. I really do have a lot to learn. I'm gonna have to replay the GOTM a few times to get used to the way that you lot think. Obviously I'm not going to submit it, though I might submit my first game just to give people a laugh!

 

[Peaster]

:
What should have been done was noticing that on such a map almost all squares (jungle and swamp, and also hills) offer only ONE foodsheaf. This means that irrigating one tile to grassland before building a city costs 15 turns, but the result is that the grassland tile offers 2 food under Despotism, then 3 food under Monarchy. Therefore the 15 turns that one seems to lose are in fact a great investment.

This agrees with my tests posted above [and I made the same mistake you did in the game]. A+ombomb may disagree (?), but I don't understand his system too well.

@A+ombomb - What do you mean about milking alliances? [Getting gold as gifts? Did this produce enough gold to rush-build your wonders?] Does this plan require you to stay small for a long time?

 

[Peaster]

@La Fayatte: BTW 300AD is amazing! With your usual "one arm" rules? If you have any saves or a log, I would be interested. Also, if it is not too much trouble, can you describe how you take over another civ quickly without bribes?

For example, the civ is on a distant island and has 4 cities without walls. How many troops do you send ? Will you be rush-building new units there? About how long will that conquest take?

 

[zenon]

300 AD is very nice conquest date on this map, La Fayette! Beats my landing by a few centuries. I am playing the last turns before launch and landing is scheduled for x45. 500 was out of reach, but the end game was pretty fast.

This was a really interesting challenge. The creator of this map has invented a few brakes for a landing game. Difficult terrain (more than 300 settler turns just for the SSC), limited expansion, the need for navigation to get of the island and the reduced delivery bonus in early trade (due to navigation). On the other hand there were some advantages: the SSC was very strong, especially when most of the jungle was cleared and obviously Prince level not only offers more content citizens but also the research bonus you would usually have on a small map.

Peaster, a+ombomb made very good use of an OCC strategy: the lower your power rating, the more alliances you can have and the more willing your allies are to give you generous gifts. This can be very successful as Samson and other players demonstrated with their size 1 OCC games.

A+ombomb, I was also thinking if a blend of this successful strategy with a later growth strategy could be done. But I am a bit sceptical if growth is not delayed to much. But it would be worth a try.

 

[Peaster]

I don't know those OCC tricks! But I should have read A+'s last post more carefully. He explained the idea pretty well. A little more about alliances, though, if someone doesn't mind - -

1) Does this method work well even with Civ2 MPG ?
2) Has anyone used alliances successfully in early conquest games?

 

[la fayette]

@La Fayatte: BTW 300AD is amazing! With your usual "one arm" rules? If you have any saves or a log, I would be interested. Also, if it is not too much trouble, can you describe how you take over another civ quickly without bribes?

For example, the civ is on a distant island and has 4 cities without walls. How many troops do you send ? Will you be rush-building new units there? About how long will that conquest take?

1) "one arm" rules? = yes, of course (no helpers, no black-clicking, no bribe, and from now on no rehoming )

2) Quickly = never hurry; the civ2 AI, that many people criticize, is at least able to take advantage of your mistakes. I always remember my first big conquest game where I was fighting the mighty Mongols: I had just taken 2 rather small cities, each with heavy defences; I had about 20 strong units parked inside the cities in order to protect them after the fight; then came 2 of those smiling young diplomats who bought back the 2 cities for a few $ (half price for previous owner + city disorder ), with all my proud conquerors inside.

3) Each city is unique, especially due to the terrain and the walls. If plain or grassland and no walls, I attack with (n+1) vet crusaders. If mountain + walls, I come back later .

 

[la fayette]

1) Does this method work well even with Civ2 MPG ?
2) Has anyone used alliances successfully in early conquest games?

1) No, it doesn't (at least not for me ).
2) No, because my allies mind their own business. They just don't care what I wish, and usually send dozens of units to my territory, making my transportation system obsolete.

 

[KingFarmerLand]

when I kill an initial civilization, another starts again, but when I kill the settler of this one, the civilization reappears. For example, i killed twice mongols and spanish. It's normal ??? Because "c'est franchement chiant"

 

[A+ombomb]

When restarts are on, the computer can randomly restart anywhere on the map up until 1500AD once a computer dies. Its just luck if one doesn't respawn, based on a random roll at the death of a civ - one big reason I really dislike conquest (I try to minimize randomness as much as possible in my strategies). If you are trying to win with conquest, my best advice to you is make a whole hell of a lot of boats and have them near every island ready to land.

 

[Old n Slow]

Yeeeeeeeeucko!

What an ugly place to start!

I ended up irrigating the city spaces right after founding my six first cities; placed my SSC with the wine & whale.

Only missed out on JSB -- so I had to "acquire' it.

Nothing fast from me this month, since I'm sort of a sucker for roads & better terrain -- so we'll at least end up with a prettier landscape before we're through.

 

[grigor]

Finished 730 AD. I had just learned Explosives, but the possiblity of wiping out the opposition outweighted the joys of terraforming.

I built on the 3-special site and was lucky enough to get a nomad as the last hut. I irrigated 5 city sites on the home island. I resolved to stay in Monarchy the whole way. I made a beeline for Navigation and got it in 300BC! Unfortunately, my civ had such putrid production that I didn't get much of a conquering navy out for a good long time. I would have been better off with Navigation 200 years later with a few mines and forests.

 

[A+ombomb]

I found a very powerful start to 1AD which provided me with 8 cities and 5 wonders (copern, coloss, pyr, marco, magellan), 27 advances. I will post a log after the submission date. I couldn't make much use of alliances, unfortunately, because on prince computers grow just far too slowly, even if you grant them the republic very early. I think on emperor or deity level staying small for money from the computer would be worth it for a multicity game, but not on prince.

 

[Peaster]

@GOTM early conquest players: I have some questions for you in the Strategy Forum.

@a+ombomb: I look forward to reading your log to see how you opened that game. If you have any .sav's that you are willing to post, I would enjoy studying those even more.

@grigor and zenon: Congratulations! Yours sound like the best dates so far.

@LaFayette - Thanks again!

 

[A+ombomb]

multicity log:

4000bc- hut archer
3950bc- Berlin, 6/0/4 rate
3900bc- hut nomad
3700bc- code of laws
3650bc- hut 100g, road spice, 85 gold
3500bc- settler Berlin
3250bc- writing, disband archer
3200bc- settler Berlin, clear jungle on city (Berlin), Leipzig, 4/0/6 rate
3150bc- Hamburg
3050bc- literacy
2850bc- republic, revolt, republic formed, 41 gold, 2/0/8 rate
2750bc- mapmaking
2600bc- currency, 6/0/4 rate
2450bc- clear jungle on city (Hamburg)
2400bc- trieme Leipzig (at some point I rehome this to Konigsburg, but I am not sure when)
2350bc- trade, settler Berlin, 46 gold, 8/0/2 rate
2300bc- caravan(hides) Hamburg
2200bc- Konigsburg
2150bc- trade route hides (Hamburg-Konigsburg) +48/+1(turn)
2100bc- seafaring, settler Berlin
2000bc- Frankfurt
1950bc- caravan(hides) Leipzig
1900bc- settler Hamburg, mine wine
1850bc- trade route hides (Leipzig-Konigsburg) +48/+1(turn), Munich
1800bc- banking, settlers Berlin
1700bc- road wine
1650bc- Heidelburg
1600bc- caravan(hides) Leipzig
1500bc- trade route hides (Leipzig-Konigsburg) +48/+1(turn)
1450bc- masonry, caravan(hides) Berlin
1400bc- trade route hides (Berlin-Konigsburg) +68/+1(turn), caravan(spice) Frankfurt, caravan(hides) Munich
1350bc- settlers Berlin, caravan(hides) Hamburg
1300bc- 6/0/4 rate
1250bc- mathematics, trade route hides (Munich-Konigsburg) +40/+1(turn), trade route hides (Hamburg-Konigsburg) +64/+1(turn), caravan(food) Konigsburg, 8/0/2 rate
1200bc- caravan(hides) Hamburg
1150bc- clear jungle on city (Leipzig), caravan(hides) Leipzig
1100bc- Marco’s built (4 caravans), maps aztec, trade tech: ceremonial burial, mysticism
950bc- astronomy, caravan(hides) Berlin
925bc- caravan(hides)x2 (Leipzig, Hamburg)
900bc- caravan(spice) Heidelburg
875bc- caravan(hides) Munich, trade route hides (Hamburg-Konigsburg) +72
850bc- construction, caravan(hides) Leipzig, caravan(spice) Frankfurt
825bc- caravan(copper) Heidelburg
800bc- trade route hides (Munich-Konigsburg) +60, trade route hides (Leipzig-Konigsburg) +72
775bc- navigation, caravan(hides) Munich, caravan(silver) Frankfurt, gift techs, maps: russians, zulus, indians
750bc- caravan(hides) Berlin, caravan(hides) Hamburg
725bc- caravan(hides) Leipzig
675bc- trade route hides (Berlin-Heidelburg) +40/+1(turn)
650bc- caravan(hides) Berlin, caravan(spice) Hamburg
625bc- Magellan’s Berlin (all caravans), caravan(silver) Frankfurt
600bc- caravan(copper) Heidelburg, rehome trieme Heidelburg
575bc- caravel Munich
500bc- caravan(gems) Leipzig
475bc- physics, trade tech: horseback riding
450bc- caravel(Berlin), caravan(gems) Hamburg, caravan(salt) Frankfurt, caravan(beads) Munich
425bc- trade route hides (Berlin-Ulundi) +205/+4(turn)
400bc- philosophy, university, caravan(hides) Berlin, caravan(spice) Leipzig, caravel Frankfurt, trade route silver (Frankfurt-Ulundi) +205/+3(turn)
375bc- caravan(spice) Hamburg, caravan(salt) Munich
350bc- caravan(food) Konigsburg, 2/0/8 rate
275bc- hut 50g
250bc- medicine, caravan(spice) Heidelburg, caravan(spice) Frankfurt, trade route gems (Hamburg-Madras) +246/+3(turn)
225bc- caravan(spice) Munich, caravan(hides) Hamburg, trade route beads (Munich-Bombay) +128/+2(turn), trade route copper (Heidelburg-St.Peter) +132/+2(turn)
200bc- chemistry, caravan(dye) Leipzig, caravan(hides) Berlin, caravan(silver) Nuremburg, caravan(food) Frankfurt, caravan(food) Konigsburg, trade route salt (Frankfurt-Delhi) +168/+3, 8/0/2 rate
175bc- Colossus Berlin (all caravans), caravan(spice) Hamburg, trade route hides (Berlin-Moscow) +308/+5(turn)
150bc- magnetism, Pyramids Berlin (all caravans), caravan(spice) Leipzig, caravan(spice) Heidelburg, caravan(food) Konigsburg, 40 gold
125bc- Copernicus’ Berlin (all caravans), trade tech: the wheel
100bc- trade route gems (Leipzig-Tiotihuacan) +318/+3(turn)
75bc- caravan(spice) Hamburg, caravan(salt) Munich, caravan(spice) Frankfurt, caravan(hides) Berlin, caravan(coal) Heidelburg
1ad- caravan(beads) Nuremburg, caravan(gold) Berlin

hopefully that covers it. I did play out the game, but I really don't want to go through the bother of logging it all - its so much effort making logs of my multicity games towards the end (I really explode into huge populations, so many caravans and settlers and buildings) so I just don't have the time for it. I included the 1ad save point.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I submitted earlier today to Duke.

This was the first game ever I had played on prince level (I usualy play at emperor level) and it took me by surprise near the end. I played OCC and after building Newton I was getting one advance per turn. When I was about to build a research lab I realized that my tech is way ahead of my shield preparedness for a space ship. I had only 2 (undemanded commodity) freights and had not built a manufacturing or power plant yet. I decided to skip the Research lab, build the plants, and then a wonder that would be switched to Apollo. I tried building SS parts in one turn using my treasury but it ran out near the end and slowed me down by a few turns.

Detailed log is enclosed.