GOTM45 spoiler thread

[Ali Ardavan]

You guys really like the map ??

I love the shape of it; I dislike the overdose of jungle/swamps.

The computer just doesn't know how to give me what I want . . .

The random map generator is pathetic. Maps are too much alike and follow some general guidelines. You will never get a map like this or for that matter any true archipelago out of the random map generator despite the fact that it has a setting for generating archipelagos. Moreover, if you set the dimensions of the map real small, near the minimum it allows you, it gives you an extremely mountainous terrain.

For my own games, I mostly play on custom designed maps.

 

[zenon]

I'm just nicer.

I wonder who gave us the "No Lighthouse" rule in combination with the map

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

It was all from the player. All I did was post it.

Honest.....

 

[A+ombomb]

I really like the masses of swamps/jungles. Allows the players much more variety in how they want to approach building up.

 

[A+ombomb]

All done, didn't take long. Here's my log.

4000bc- hut 100g, 4/0/6 rate

here I travel along the river for a few years, charging my settler on 1/3 moves. It is clear that this game is designed specificially for occ, so I decide to play it as such.

3200bc - Berlin, gathering spice
3150bc- rush militia
3050bc- hut nomad
3000bc- code of laws
2800bc- hut chariot, road spice, size1 settler built
2750bc- disband chariot
2700bc- disband militia, writing
2650bc- road gold
2550bc- harness gold so berlin does not grow, settler 25/40, 13 gold, 4/0/6 rate
2450bc- harness spice, literacy
2350bc- mine gold, harness gold
2300bc- harness spice
2250bc- harness gold
2200bc- harness spice
2150bc- road wine
2100bc- size1 settler, full food
2050bc- berlin 2, republic, republic formed, add both supported settlers to berlin (now size 4), harnessing 4 specials, 39 gold, 2/0/8 rate
1900bc- currency
1800bc- map making
1650bc- trade, mine wine
1550bc- caravan(hides)
1400bc- seafaring, 8/0/2 rate
1350bc- road gems
1250bc- caravan(hides)
1100bc- caravan(hides)
1000bc- caravan(hides), build marco’s with 4 caravans
975bc- marco polo’s, trade tech:mason, math, myst, gift all civs with techs, form alliances with all, ask money(+500 gold), 2/0/8 rate
950bc- trade maps: zulus, indians
925bc- trade tech: astronomy
900bc- caravan(hides)
850bc- navigation
825bc- caravel built
775bc- caravan(hides)
725bc- trade tech:iron working, gift some techs, load second caravan on caravel, send to zulus
650bc- caravan(hides), physics, settler clears shield grassland
600bc-550bc- gift techs, ask money (+200 each time), 2 caravans (add 3 to colossus)
525bc- colossus, trade route hides Bapedi (+150,+5/turn)
500bc- magnetism, trade tech: wheel, ceremon, banking
475bc- caravan(spice), trade route hides Ulundi (+306, +5/turn)
450bc- caravan(gold)
425bc- galleon built
375bc- philosophy, university
350bc- caravan(coal), russian maps
300bc- caravan(hides)
275bc- clear shielded grassland, gift techs, ask money (+200)
250bc- caravan(hides)
200bc- caravan(hides)
175bc- copernicus’ observatory
125bc- theory of gravity, library, trade route spice Delhi (168, +6/turn)
100bc- construction, university, trade route spice Bombay (+158)
75bc- trade tech: monarchy
50bc- caravan(hides), maps: aztecs, americans
25bc- engineering, trade tech: warrior, horse, poly, gift tech all civs
1ad- caravan(hides)
20ad- caravan(hides)
40ad- bridgebuilding, ask $$ (+500?), caravan(hides)
60ad- caravan(hides), 1/1/8 rate
70ad- love day, harness 2 irrigated shielded river grassland, spice, wine
80ad- berlin 5 (harness gems), invention, harbor
90ad- berlin 6 (change gem to gold, one entertainer), trade route hides Kiev (+434)
100ad- berlin 7 (harness gems, water), steam engine, caravan(hides), trade route hides Kiev (+458)
110ad- end love day
120ad- caravan(hides), railroad
130ad- trade tech: economics, gift tech, ask money (+300?)
140ad- caravan(hides)
150ad- change river swamp to river forest, harness river forest, rate 0/2/8
160ad- industrialization, temple, love day, road on river forest, see barbarian and purchase frigate
170ad- berlin 8, harness water, frigate built, kill barbarian with frigate, 1/1/8 rate, gift tech, ask money (+200?), end love day
190ad- factory, disband frigate, river grassland road
200ad- corporation, caravan(hides)
220ad- gift techs, ask money (+300), freight(oil)
230ad- trade tech: feudalism, democracy
240ad- gunpowder, freight(coal), river grassland road
260ad- freight(food)
280ad- medicine, freight(food)
290ad- gift tech, ask money (+500)
310ad- freight(food)
320ad- metalurgy, trade route hides minsk x2(+405, +203)
330ad- freight(food)
340ad- chemistry, revolt
350ad- democracy formed, 2562 gold, 0/1/9 rate
370ad- shakespear
380ad- isaac newton, electricity, love day
400ad- berlin 9, aquaduct, 328 gold, river jungle to forest
410ad- refining, barbarian on shore, build musketeer
420ad- barbarian ship strangly disappears
430ad- steel, trade tech: communism
440ad- ask money (+100), 0/0/10 rate
460ad- explosives
470ad- gift techs, ask money (+250), trade tech: atomic theory
490ad- engineer, electronics
520ad- combustion, gift tech, trade route (hides, coal) st.peter (219, 700)
530ad- automobile, hydro plant
540ad- superhighways
550ad- conscription, river jungle to forest
570ad- sanitation, gift tech, trade tech: chivalry, ask money (+600?), 1374 gold
590ad- refrigeration, freight(food), ask money(+150)
600ad- clear river jungle
610ad- mass production, supermarket, 0/1/9
620ad- love day
640ad- berlin 10, leadership, 1144 gold
650ad- sewer system
660ad- nuclear fission, gift tech, ask money (+700)
680ad- freight(food)
690ad- nuclear power, kill barbs with musket
700ad- freight(food), disband musket, trade route spice bapedi (+564)
710ad- berlin 12, tactics, freight(food), ask money(+100)
730ad- machine tools, gift tech, ask money (+400), freight(food)
750ad- radio, mass transit
770ad- berlin 13, freight(food), 2409 gold, gift techs
780ad- berlin 14, advanced flight
790ad- barb sighted, switch to armor, gift tech, trade tech: mobile warfare, espionage, ask money (+250)
800ad- berlin 15, armor built, kill barbarian with armor
810ad- laser, barb leader (+100)
820ad- freight(food)
840ad- recycling, freight(food), gift tech, ask money (+100)
860ad- berlin 16 (make scientist), freight(food)
870ad- rocketry, trade route oil washin (+438)
880ad- freight(food)
890ad- berlin17, miniturization
900ad- berlin18, freight(food), gift tech, ask money (+450)
920ad- freight(food), amphibious warfare, trade tech: guerilla warfare, genetic eng
940ad- freight(food)
950ad- airport
1000ad- apollo program
from here on, I just pump my caravans into parts, and milk the computers every turn possible, giving/trading tech with them as they ask. Each part I use 1 caravan, then buy or finish with normal shield production. Once the caravans are gone, I rush build units then switch production and take the penalty.
1260- fusion power, launched
1262- recycling center
1263- research lab, future tech 1
1265- manufacturing plant, stealth(someone else had it, how dumb!)
1267- hanging gardens, future tech 2
1269- great wall, future tech 3
1271- oracle, future tech 4
1274- king richard’s, future tech 5
1275- landing

Hopefully I didn't leave anything out.

 

[zenon]

Excellent result, A+ombomb!

I think you chose the best opening for an OCC on this map. Build the city first, then pop the huts to have the chance for a none settler, then build two settlers at size 1 and rush to republic. My opening was similar. I just built my city earlier and went for Monarchy. To prepare my helper cities I couln´t afford the additional settler food under republic.

But it is really interesting to see, how well you did compared to my landing game. Until 1 AD you were well ahead in techs and wonders and only around 300 AD my then 12 cities could go ahead. The ability to have alliances made the difference.

Again, very well played!

Zenon

 

[KingFarmerLand]

i finished before 1000Ad (conquest), but don't ask me you explain how i made in english because i don't know. (i'm bad in english ) sorry.

 

[A+ombomb]

I think the best start for non-occ would be to build the first city ON the spice, and a second city ON the wine, then go from there. I played a test game just to see how it would work, and it was amazingly fast compared to other starts since you don't have to wait to clear out the jungle for the first two cities. Without caravan rehoming, having a supercity in a normal game isn't all that wonderful.

 

[Stardimple]

OMG, OMG, OMG, I've just realised how much I suck at this game! This is my first GOTM and boy have I struggled. What is this OCC thing about - just one city am I correct, how the hell does that work then?
This concept is completely bizarre to me I normally play on huge maps and aim to get as many cities as possible (100+ mostly).

 

[A+ombomb]

Yes occ is only one city victory. Most players that don't occ go for as many cities as possible (I usually do), but micromanaging that many cities and engineers and caravans etc. can be extremely tedious..if you want to do it optimally. I played gotm44 to a point that I had 500 engineers then I just couldn't take it anymore - too boring - so I moved on to gotm45 and went with occ and found it very fun.

 

[Peaster]

Hello

i finished between 1000 and 1500 AD without using the south pole . But it's not a bad idea

.

KingFarmerLand - Congratulations on your early finish ! It's a pretty tough map for conquest. I can understand your English pretty well, but I am not sure what you meant about finishing between 1000 and 1500AD (was that GOTM 44?).

 

[zenon]

I think the best start for non-occ would be to build the first city ON the spice, and a second city ON the wine, then go from there. I played a test game just to see how it would work, and it was amazingly fast compared to other starts since you don't have to wait to clear out the jungle for the first two cities. Without caravan rehoming, having a supercity in a normal game isn't all that wonderful.

Sorry, but here I disagree. If you found the city on a rivered jungle tile with the spice in its city limits, you have the same food/shield production, if you just work the spice. You don´t have to found on the spice. In base trade you have the additional beaker of the river tile until bridge building. So I don´t see an advantage. Or did I overlook something? Founding on the wine in general is a good idea, but I would consider to do it later, when I have 2 settlers available so I could mine it first. My preference for the next 2 cities were sites next to the whales.

About the SSC: if you go for conquest, I agree. You don´t need it. But for early landings it is still a must.

A possible alternative to the 4 special site just crossed my mind: to the East with 3 specials (wine, whales, gems). This site needs only about half the settler work and could be grown earlier. Well, to late for my game!

 

[KingFarmerLand]

KingFarmerLand - Congratulations on your early finish ! It's a pretty tough map for conquest. I can understand your English pretty well, but I am not sure what you meant about finishing between 1000 and 1500AD (was that GOTM 44?).

it's the GOTM 45. I even finished a little earlier, before 1000AD. . i try to explain. when you kill an initial Civs, another starts. Ask the world map at news Civs (give many technology and ask world map). before this, it is necessary to build many boats. Because the news Civs is on islands of 1 square or others but they never build cities. and when i learned to build sails and cruisaders, i stopped my research.
Good luck to understand my english.

 

[A+ombomb]

If you found directly on the spice and the wine, then you can harness the water and you gain extra trade. This isn't a huge difference, but the extra trade arrow can still add up. The spice position also has more potential growth if you grab an early harbor, as does the wine position, since they have more water. The middle position just generally requires alot more settler work. On the downside, building on the spice means that the hut nearby has no chance of being a non settler, so that might be a small consideration.

 

[Peaster]

I replayed the opening four times with various strategies, including harbors, granaries, spice first, etc. I got the best results by -

a) pop huts (and disband the units later).
b) Find 2 whales
c) Irrigate 2 swamp squares nearby, settle, make more settlers, which
d) settle on spice or
e) irrigate, then settle near a special

After a while, I also used some settlers for planting forests and mining.
No harbors, etc. The results at 60AD were - 9 cities on the main island producing 25 sh/turn, income = 14g/t with 380g saved, 32 beakers/turn, 17 advances, 13 units (no wonders yet).

Maybe this is not what you want for EL games, but I wish I had done this in my conquest game. Anyone have any better results?

 

[Stardimple]

OK now I've been enlightened as to how to play the OCC I started the game again and attempted to copy what A+ombomb done. I obviously had quite a bit more success than my first attempt.
I just got a couple of questions about the strategy though...
Having the benefit of the walkthrough I was always a few turns ahead of A+ombomb but the problem I had was that when I got MPE and tried to make alliances with the other Civs, most of them were already at war and wouldn't ally with me unless I declared war to so I didn't have the benefit of being able to request gifts from the other civs. The other disaster that happened was that I missed out on Colossus which was built very early by another Civ (Russians I think) I was in the process of building it at the time but didn't have the money to rush build it when I was told the Russians had nearly completed it.
Bearing in mind that I was a few turns in front of A+ombomb, has anybody got an idea what I may have done wrong?

 

[A+ombomb]

If you are too powerful when you snag MPE, then you can't get the alliances. It doesn't give you any benefit to get MPE too early. I think the more trade you are generating per unit of population, the more likely they are to ally too. Also, if you grow too large too quickly, you will need more beakers to gain advances. The weakest civ always requires the least beakers to gain advances. Just try to stay small and milk them for their gold. If you are small it won't matter if they are at war or not, they will still ally you.

Upon further investigation of building on the spice and wine, it doesn't seem as adventagious. I think it might be better to build at the super city site even in a multicity game. I found the best results by building at the supercity spot (without irrigating), popping the two huts with a militia, then building cities near the two whales on a swamp/jungle. I no longer think that rushing for harbors was particularly good - you actually grow too fast, and you can't milk alliances as well. If you just go for fast republic, trade, then navigation and milk alliances and trading, with smaller cities, it seems to work out better than expanding too quickly and building up. By 1ad I think I had colossus, MPE, magellan on my size 4 super city with 3 other smaller cities by each of the 3 water specials, with research at just slightly further than my OCC game. I think the key to maximizing the GOTM score in this game will be to find a pivot year where you switch from being very small and milking alliances, to going all out settlers/growth and plopping down cities all over with the strong economy built up to that point.

 

[la fayette]

@la fayette

I must have been asleep when I started playing this GOTM45. I made such a silly strategical mistake that it cost me about 9 centuries

Here is what I did and what should have been done:
- What I did was build new cities ASAP.
- What should have been done was noticing that on such a map almost all squares (jungle and swamp, and also hills) offer only ONE foodsheaf. This means that irrigating one tile to grassland before building a city costs 15 turns, but the result is that the grassland tile offers 2 food under Despotism, then 3 food under Monarchy. Therefore the 15 turns that one seems to lose are in fact a great investment.

I replayed my game following this idea and finished in 300AD instead of 1160AD (in fact the conquest was finished by 100BC, but numerous respawns finally cost me about 4 centuries)

Moderator Action: File returned

 

[Stardimple]

OK now I'm getting embarrased here! You have completed this map by conquering all the other civs which is my normal game, gimme an idea on how the hell you get off the damn island considering that we are not allowed to build the Lighthouse. I tried doing this in my first game and by the time I got Navigation, somebody else had already built MV and the other Civs were too powerful to conquer?

 

[la fayette]

gimme an idea on how the hell you get off the damn island considering that we are not allowed to build the Lighthouse. QUOTE]
What I did:
1) Build 7 cities (without irrigating in my GOTM game, after irrigating the city tile to grassland in my second game).
2) Build 4 camels, build Marco and swap techs on the path to Navigation (I got Mathematics in my second game).
3) Beeline to Navigation.