GOTM59 Spoiler 2 - Middle Ages

[civ_steve]

GOTM 59 - second spoiler

Sorry this is a little late! How did your Middle Ages go? How is the other continent? Did your Berzerks play a dominant role? If you played Predator, how did you get your Iron, if you did?


Reading Requirements:

1. Must have contact with All remaining Civs.
2. Must be able to research an Industrial Age Technology.

Posting restrictions

1. No maps showing Industrial or Modern resources.
2. No discussion of Industrial Age (or later).

 

[Megalou]

Predator (domination)

I made a rare comeback but will not submit.

I like the berserks because of their unique ability - marines simply appear too late. klarius said that they are overprized by I don't know - with Leo's they are a mere 50 gold which means roughly four per turn with no research in a normal early medieval economy. It will be interesting to compare results - berserks versus other military. But in comparison with klarius I don't think I'll stand a chance regardless.

If I had chosen conquest instead of domination, perhaps I would have gone for cavalry; France grew very strong in my game and I didn't touch them.

I acquired the iron in the 4th century BC by attacking Rome with archers. I did not keep any of my acquisitions but built new towns. Strangely, the unhappiness from razing could be felt way south in Uppsala, just 3 tiles from Nidaros. (Those of you who know a bit about Sweden will see the logic in that when Lund is built, Uppsala becomes unhappy.)

Because I had a lot of archers (later berserks of course) I chose Monarchy, but I was a bit late in changing to it. I reserched Engineering, Invention and Navigation in the MA. (I could trade or demand the rest, plus get them from The Great Library of India.) I chose Navigation out of comfort to give me lots of happiness and perhaps also a smaller flip risk on the other continent - less civil disorder.

I handbuilt The Great Lighthouse in 610 BC but then my leader luck was good (Leo's in 270AD, FP in 300AD, Magellan in 580AD - unnecessary except for culture, JS Bach in 620AD, Smith in 700 AD)

I can't think of any special tactical triumphs but I prepared my logistics patiently and managed to stay focused on the dull galley hopping. It was clear long before the end that the supply of berserks would not be good enough to carve a slice out of France, so I slowly quelled all the resistance in India, which was the biggest civ of all when it had devoured Spain, to hurry temples.

At the end, only France and Scandinavia were still standing. I had a couple of nervous turns right before the end when I was vulnerable to a French attack. That would have cost me a lot, because my troops were all over the map. Some didn't even reach the front after quelling the Indian resistance. In 810 AD I had gone 22 tiles beyond the Domination limit.

Ta-ta. I'm not going to join regular playing again but it's nice to look in on you guys.

Details

Founding site: 1N

Build order: Warrior, granary, worker, settler(2), warrior, settler(3), settler(4).


Working orders: Chop deer forest, road deer forest, irrigate deer forest, road wheat, irrigate wheat. With the advent of the 2nd worker we go road/mine the river BG and road N spice.

Obviously a lonely island, so no more scouts. Scout1 is parked northwest where he can see two offshore tiles.

RCP4 seems OK. Second town on the western gold, for research. Third town by whale and cow for some coastal power. Then we need a town west to share the wheet with Nidaros. The first non-RCP4 town should be to the north to give us more visibility and maybe a galley built closer to the AI when MapMaking appears (although it may appear too early for that.)

2510 - Our first settler(2) has been produced. We are able to reset our luxury spendings. The scout moves south to scan for barbs. Spices connected to Nidaros.

2470 - Second warrior produced.

2390 - Bjoergvin(2) is founded. Build order warrior, worker. Cash is at 2 gold and should not go lower.

2270 - Cyan or green borders spotted to the north.

2230 - Settler(3) goes east.

2150 - Oslo(3) founded. Build order warrior, worker.

2110 - A miss in the worker movement makes me decide not to irrigate the Eastern cow. Bjoergvin will be the worker factory instead.

2070 - Settler(4) ready. Will go west towards river. Soon we can share the wheat.

2030 - Nidaros is now theoretically a 4-turn settler factory starting at size 4.5.

1990 - Barb shows up but we can found Stockholm(4). Warrior from Bjoergvin has come to defend. Stockholm builds archer.

1950 - We learn writing and start Map Making.

1870 - A barb moves towards Bjoergvin. He can interfere with the worker production of Bjoergvin and so is attacked from within Stockholm. the attack is successful. Settler(5) N,N.

1830 - The barb camp has produced a horseman. Yellow warrior returns to Sthlm.

1790 - Uppsala(5) founded, working fish, prebuilding galley. Warrior can now leave Oslo.

1750 - Oslo is connected.

1725 - Settler(6) goes south towards gold. Because of RCP his must not found town on gold.

1675 - Stockholm connected. A barb warrior threatens the workers. He is defeated, but redlined, and is now easy prey for the barb horseman. Luxury is increased and a warrior moved from Nidaros.
IT: Stockholm is attacked by barb warrior who wins, work on archer destroyed.

1650 - Bjoergvin connected. Linköping(6) is founded but is likely to be pillaged. Oslo stops building workers and will prebuild Great Lighthouse.
IT: Linköping is ransacked for 1 gold.

1625 - Settler(7) heads NW. Wounded warrior heads back to Nidaros.

1575 - Göteborg(7) founded. The green borders expand.

1525 - Greeks have shown up in the scout's view. They know the Romans and 4 first layer techs. They have no resources at all.

Should I really prebuild the Great Lighthouse if I can attack 2 civs and maybe get leaders?

Settler(8) goes tentatively west to hill. Linköping works gold to get Map Making in 2.

1500 - Linköping connected. Settler continues NW. Archer finished in Sthlm. Archer kills horseman but another has appeared.

1475 - We have Map Making and Uppsala produces a galley. Studying Philosophy. We trade the Greek world map, The Wheel, and Bronze Working. They also have iron working. This reveals an unchartered area west of us.

1450 - Jönköping(8) founded on western coast. Bjoergvin changes to warrior.

1425 - Settler(9) goes W,W. All towns connected. We move against the barb camp.

1400 - We destroy a horseman in defence and the barb camp. The scout lands on the western island.

1375 - Norrköping(9) is founded. A warrior boards the galley.

1325 - Far-reaching sea tiles found to the west. We learn Philosophy and trade contact with Rome. From rome we trade Iron Working. They have disconnected iron.

1275 - Västerås(10) founded. Slowing down settler factory. Preparing to check the iron island, but I'm pretty sure it is not habitable. Paris completes Pyramids. Very early.

1225 - Rome has abandoned their wonder production.

1125 - CoL discovered. We trade it to Greece for everything except HBR. We get Mysticism from Rome. Next is Math.

1100 - Kalmar(11) founded. Settler(12) produced.

1000 BC - Malmö(12) founded. We have 11 workers (one has been joined), 1 scout, 6 warriors, 4 archers, 2 galleys, 2 harbours, 2 barracks, 19t to Great Lighthouse. We discover Math at the interturn and sell it to Greece Rome and Greece. (Rome almost has it). We now have all required techs except Poly, Construction, Currency, but none of the optionals. We choose to study Currency. Republic is too expensive, considering that I will have to make an archer rush before I have berserks.

975 - Settler(13) ready. This dude will claim the western island. Rome has a harbour!

875 - We trade incense from Rome. Our second spices will be connected on the interturn.

775 - Learn Currency.

690 - France builds The Great Wall.

630 - Galley departs into the unknown.

490 - We meet France - had to use a suicide galley. They are way ahead.

450 - Found safe crossing north of Rome.

430 - India sold contacts with us. Just Spain left. They may be behind because they didn't pay up.

610 - Great Lighthouse completed.

310 - 43 archers amassed. We declare on Rome and make Greece join us. Pisae captured.

290 - Pisae is razed and Lund founded on its spot. Then Uppsala becomes unhappy. There is a profound logic in this.

250 - We find a safe passage to the east further south. We land 4 archers near Cumae (gems). Rome has lots of Legionaries.

230 - Unable to take Cumae.

210 - Engineering discovered. We trade Literature, Monarchy, Feudalism, World Map, and gold. The French give 26gpt plus cash. We revolt to Monarchy.

170 - Peace with Rome.

130 - We open our first and probably only goody hut and get a map.

90 BC - After 7 turns of Anarchy we are a Monarchy. Greece razes Pompeji.

270 AD - First Leader appears among the brave archers in our Roman area. temple hurried in Lund near rome.

280 AD - Leo's workshop is rushed in Lund.

300 AD - 2nd leader outside Athens. Athens taken, FP hurried.

370 - Greece eliminated.

400 - Rome eliminated.

520 - Dehli is captured. 5 turns to Navigation.

580 - We have hurried Magellan´s voyage. It still annoys me that this doesn't give the galleys 5 movement p.

600 - All 8 luxuries.

610 - The fragile but rather expansive Indians eliminated. Time to quell a lot of resistance.

620 - Hurried JS Bach's Cathedral in Madrid.

700 - England eliminated. War on Korea. We hurry Smith.

750 - The overconfident Spain eliminated.

780 - Korea eliminated. France will be left untouched. They are average with us but our troops are spread out all over the place. Fortyfour tiles to limit. We disband boats and join workers.

810 - Domination win! Score 8072 firaxis points.

 

[klarius]

Welcome back, Megalou. How about a return in SGOTM also .

I will write a more detailed spoiler later, but for a quick comparison:
I did a cavalry driven conquest (knights and MDI for Greece and Rome).
Only 3 upgraded Berserks getting me a golden age and doing a few island battles.
I also researched to navigation mainly to get quickly into France in the end (though the luxes didn't hurt also ).
Conquest victory in 620AD.

 

[AndySir]

Ooyah, 680 & 810 for the dom. I was still fighting a pitched battle with France at the turn of the middle ages. My conquest didn't arive until the early 19th century. Didn't even get a foothold on the other continent until 1080, when I attacked a weak England at the same time France and India were annihilating them. Korea had already gone, Spain was on their way out.

I hit the industrial age in the 15th century, around the time I made the palace jump to recently aquired French (former English) lands which allowed my cavalry production to soar (I had a few Berserks for the GA, but otherwise largely ignored them).

This was a slog each step of the way for me, and I had my cities producing little but military units from turn 1. The big delay for me was due to my timidity in waiting for navigation to move my Caravels over the sea to the other continent. Do other players just shift galleys and take the losses?

 

[Andronicus]

Domination victory in 780AD

Settled 1N
RCP 4 & 7

Barbs hounded my scout delaying Greek contact (could see the borders but no military after exploring island).

Research straight to MM, prebuilding GLH, then to monarchy getting 7 turn anarchy (dont know how to do the PTW reroll thingy )

Archer rushed Greeks getting MGL -> FP in Athens, then through Rome
Never built knights, went straight towards MT, using zerks on the way in my supercharged galleys to harrass harbour cities (built about 20 zerks).

French were way stronger on other continent with 3-4 tech lead over others (pyramids, GLB, collosus + ?), so I dow-ed them MA everyone else with force of 30 cavs. Probably overkill as I rushed through civs one after another and should have invaded other continent much sooner. At end there was only me and about 6 Indian mainland cities - they also had a number of island cities my zerks were working their way through.

Multiple MGL's after war on other continent est used to rush Sun Tzu's, Magellan's (didnt speed up my GLH assisted units ), Adam Smith's, Newtons & Sistine for culture expansion. Last leader made cav army on final turn - I forgot it only gets 1 attack instead of the 3 attacks the individual cavs would have got.

Only 1 flip back to France thanks to rapid removal of civs from the game.

I stopped research after MT, but when France learnt physics and Nav I restarted - a mistake as the money better used on continuing my shortrushes. I thought I might get to Steam, but the end came quicker than I anticipated

A fun game, thanks
(only the tedium of shipping units across from starting continent to France)

 

[klarius]

Predator


Right around the time entering MA, I have a big hole in my CA2 autosaves, so I don't know exact dates.
Still in AA, I had reached the other continent traded for all techs, maps and money around and then started the big phony war.
Declared on the big ones France, India and Korea and allied the small ones Spain and England against all three.
The alliances were coupled with peace treaties and predictably both broke an alliance after some time and gave me war happiness by that. Spain really put some suspense in it and took until 1 turn was left on the alliance .
I then reversed the alliances, so everybody on the other continent stayed occupied.
That backfired a bit, because they were then so slow in tech that I had to wait on them a few turns.
Free techs I could trade were monotheism and engineering and by the time I had researched to astronomy (10 BC) there was just feudalism available for trade.
I then researched chivalry (70AD) and continued with navigation to let the AI research invention. Still had to wait 7 turns after the navigation research until 2 civs had invention, but made good use of the money by upgrading horses.
Bought invention in 300AD, just in time for a golden age by attacking one of the last Romans.
Then burnt through to MT in 430AD (France helped with gunpowder).
Research stopped for the rest of the game.
I got my first leader to build Leonardo's in 400AD only, so before I had to pay full price for upgrades.

In 70BC started the real war on Greece with a handful of swords and horses taking Athens. By the end there were also MDI and knights taking part.
I performed a free palace jump into Greece after I had all but 2 of their cities (130AD) and gave them a small break.
Last Greek city falls in 210AD, while the troops are already mostly in Roman lands (DoW in 190AD).
Romans destroyed in 310AD and knights shipped into India. India had declared already in 170AD, but up to now it was phony.
The knights took a few villages and established a foothold, but the tough work was done by the cavs a little later. India was down to 3 towns in 490AD and got a small break. There final defeat was in 550AD.
Meanwhile I had dispatched off Spain that was anyway reduced to 3 towns by India.
England also did not show much resistance and was gone in 580AD.

The big war on the other front in France had begun in 480AD with a 3 caravel landing of fresh cavs form the home island. A ship chain delivered reinforcements every turn, still France was pretty tough with lots of musketeers and even a few cav counterattacks. I had sold them metallurgy to cancel their Great Wall and they researched MT then pretty quickly.
Still France left the scene in 580AD.
The two columns converging on Korea didn't leave them much of a chance and their last city fell in 610AD for conquest victory in 620AD.

 

[Megalou]

Good games klarius and Andronicus. klarius, creating pandemonium on the other continent was good and the surpremacy of cavalry was obvious once again. I got to Invention before you but it didn't help in the long run. But berserks were fun.

Welcome back, Megalou. How about a return in SGOTM also

Not possible, I have limited access to civ and it will stay that way.

 

[klarius]

the surpremacy of cavalry was obvious once again.

Well, I don't think so. Somebody will come up and tell the tale how he conquered the world with Lighthouse and galleys, swords/MDI (maybe even Berzerk ).
The other continent was pretty thin so sea transport and slow units can easily beat the speed of cav.
With the southern route via the island available (I didn't notice this before I had navigation ), everything is reached pretty fast with enough galleys.

 

[Chamnix]

Research was turned off after Chivalry, and I played disconnect/reconnect the iron to build horses and upgrade to knights. I ended up getting techs through Navigation by signing peace for techs then redeclaring soon afterwards. I took advantage of the "predator bonus" to build archers with the iron disconnected to upgrade into bezerks, but most of the damage was done with knights.

Greece was eliminated in 170 BC - it could have been earlier, but I was waiting for their towns to grow to size 2.

I completed the Great Lighthouse by hand in 150 BC.

110 AD I got a Great Leader to rush Sun Tzu's and start my Golden Age. In the same year I used the free palace jump to move my capital to the center of the Greco-Roman continent. My Golden Age was started the same year I got a second core with free barracks all around it.

France and India were both powers in my game. I was planning to take India first mainly because they were a shorter ship chain, but by the time I was ready to attack overseas, they had jumbos. France had just discovered Invention and had the Pyramids but hadn't had a Golden Age yet, so I decided to go after them first so they would never have one.

260 AD the Romans were eliminated.
280 AD got another leader to rush Leo's.
370 AD captured much of France including the Pyramids via RoP abuse.

France was booted from the mainland in around 440 AD (although they kept reappearing via flip).
Korea was off the continent in 470 AD.

In the meantime, India had become a superpower, eliminating Spain in 420 AD.

530 AD England was banished to an island.

660 AD India was booted off the mainland, and England was eliminated completely.

690 AD Korea was eliminated.

700 AD - captured the last Indian city, but they have a settler somewhere.

710 AD - found the last Indian settler right next to the final French city - eliminated India and France.

Recorded as 720 AD conquest.

I'm not sure why I used knights more than bezerks - probably force of habit combined with the fact that I hate moving galleys. I didn't do a very good job managing my economy - there was a long period when my unit costs were too high; i.e. I didn't use my units fast enough. I also tried to keep too many towns - I wasn't prepared to strike the eastern islands quickly, so civs lived longer than they should, and I had to recapture many towns that flipped.

All in all, only 10 turns behind klarius can't be too bad.

 

[Htadus]

Predator - Something Science. Well actually...I could not do a boat chain to get my units across in any decent manner.

How does boat hopping work?

Anyway....

AA
Settled 1N and expanded RCP4 and RCP7. Met the neighbors, learned MM before either and populated the Island to West. Then we traded to get IW.

During time we were claiming the island to west, very early in the AA we noticed that the only usable iron was located near Rome and we managed to send a settler and 3 escorts to secure it. Problem was that the second city and the harbor was slow coming. In the meantime we send about 12 archers to attack Rome. We took Rome in 440BC and another city next turn. After completing the Harbor, we upgraded several warriors and declared on the Greeks. What we did not realize was that the war blocked the access to mainland. No more new swords for a long time. In the mean time we DOW ed on England and got Korea involved.

Middle Age
We entered the Middle Age in 10AD after learning currency. Immediately started to learn Feudalism. We were at war with Rome, Greece and England. None wanted to give anything useful for peace. French are a major powerhouse both scientifically and culturally.
After defeating a hoplite, we got our 1st GL in 70AD. What to do? Build an Army or GLH? Lighthouse it will be. In 90AD we got our 2nd GL and hurry FP in Qitaim in the Roman area. After we learned Feud and wasted about 8 turns studying Mono, We sued for peace w/Alex and get Mono and gold in 90AD. About the same time we realized Korea is still backwards, so we gifted them to Middle Age in 100AD. They only traded it to us next turn after trading to all others. Not a very stupid for AI. We had forgotten England in the mean time. Korea had a peace treaty w/England. So England got Alex to DoW on us. Soon both Romans and Greeks were out of the game.

Catch up Game.
We had chosen not to build or capture the GLib for technology. So when we were behind by many techs; we were learning Invention when All but Koreans were building Copernicus, we started to buy techs after researching for few turns. Soon we caught up. By this time English war was over and we started to claim Spanish lands. Isa wont give into our extortion demands. We got our 3rd GL during capturing Spanish Capital. We rushed the JS Bach. Just as we learned Physics in 810AD, India DOWed on us. Poor choice. Next turn we got all the remaining cives against India. When England and France learned MilTrad, we bought it for cheap. Upgraded the 6 Knights and captured 3 cities in two turns. In 890AD we completed Newton in Qitaim. Entered Industrial Age in 900AD.

Plan is to learn how to run a science farm in the two islands. And to win by Diplo or Space ship.

EDIT: We have yet to go through our GA and will learn Democracy in 8 turns so we can finally exit Despotism.

 

[Cuatemoc]

Wow! Awesome!

 

[Drazek]

Well, I don't think so. Somebody will come up and tell the tale how he conquered the world with Lighthouse and galleys, swords/MDI (maybe even Berzerk ).
The other continent was pretty thin so sea transport and slow units can easily beat the speed of cav.
With the southern route via the island available (I didn't notice this before I had navigation ), everything is reached pretty fast with enough galleys.

I do not think it is possible. India and France had quite large lands. So at least I would not do it. After all thinking I have done lately to improve my dates.

 

[Drazek]

After I saw we were alone on the island and the scout saw border, I decided to rush to Republic. I met Romans early and laters Greeks after they set up a town near my borders. So with all these 2 guys I rushed to Republic and got it in pre 700 BCE. I had my The Great Ligthouse built soon after so I met the other continent and did some trades. It was a clear research game to Cavalry, and then I wiped everyone else quick. I learned two things: 1st chaining galleys is supreme. 2nd chaining troops to other continent before I had learned Cavalry. I transported horsemen to other continent as fast as I could as I conquerred saltpeter and horses. So I had a large stack of horses ready when I reached Cavalry. So, Upgrading them and raiding last settlements with Berzerks and Cavalry netted me a Conquest date of 590 CE.

Edit, CE I first said it was BCE but it wasn't correct for sure

 

[Paul#42]

...netted me a Conquest date of 590 CE.

You mean AD, not BC, don't you?

CE = AD in Finland?

 

[Htadus]

I learned two things: 1st chaining galleys is supreme.

Drazek, how does chaining galleys work. Mine will only move from one galley to another. No more than that. I move galley to the same tile as the waiting galley, wake troops, load to the waiting galley. (I think...can not remember what I tried ) But it wont let me repeat it. Is this how you do it? Thanks for any hints.

 

[civ_steve]

CE = AD in Finland?

Not sure if this is standard in Finland, but CE is a non-religious dating standard equivalent to AD (I believe).

Ship chaining - according to my recollection: best thing is to (L)oad the units into the first ship while in port, which doesn't count as a movement by the unit, then move ship to share space with waiting ship, wake the units, (L)oad them into the next ship, move it to another waiting ship, repeat. Can eventually move units off last ship if they didn't 'move' onto the first ship. Might not be able to do this if they did 'move' onto the first ship anyway.

I find it useful to rename the ships so I know where I'm loading onto. And it's good to fortify the ships while (L)oading; that way you don't end up moving a ship before its loaded by mistake. Very important if moving units by suicide Galley.

 

[Drazek]

You mean AD, not BC, don't you?
CE = AD in Finland?

I seem to be only one to use BCE/CE. CE can be interpreted twice, its either Common Era (which I prefer) or Christian Era. BCE is before Common Era or Before Christran Era. The main point is to be neutral to reliqious things. Atheists and Christians can use same short cuts and still speak about same years. I must admit that I'm an Atheist so I much prefer BCE/CE for BC/AD things.

I'll try to write up a good post about this game later. I think this was one of the best GOTM maps ever so cudos to designers. I'll explain my reasoning when I have time.