GOTM64 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 64 - first spoiler

Spoiler 1 for GOTM64 - England, is now open! (And about time!) So, now that you've gotten to the Middle Ages in your game, how is England doing? And what do you think about your starting continent? Strengths and/or weaknesses? Future plans (other than winning)


Reading Requirements:

1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.
2. Must know the outlines of your continent, and made contact with any and all AI civs on it

Posting restrictions

1. No maps showing resources from middle-ages (or later).
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later).
3. Please be discreet with any map images; I suspect there will be varying amounts and types of contacts. Feel free to mention any contacts or negotiations that you performed.

 

[denyd]

CAUTION: RANT WARNING - IF YOU DON'T LIKE RANTS SKIP THIS SECTION

Not happy at all with this map

First: we're EXP and there are no huts
Two: By turn 30 scouts had no value left
Three: where are all the AA resources. I could see missing one, but why both
Four: All alone on an island, no chance to play tech trader until MM

END OF RANT

Settled quickly and started on a second scout, then a settler and a granary, while researching Writing at maximum. Once my scouts confirmed no neighbors, they setup as Barbarian look outs. Decided on RCP 4-8-11 and set about getting cities founded. Deciding that the Great Library might be my only hope for tech parity, I went for Literature next.

At 1000 BC, I had yet to meet anyone else, though I could see a purple border.

More to come when I get back home and can check my notes.

 

[tao]

Not happy at all with this map

I would phrase it likewise: I still have no clear picture, how to best finish this game.

By 1000BC I had contacts with all civs, but only settled the eastern part of my continent. And barbs were an ongoing problem for many years to come (even into the Middle Ages). I only had 9 towns and 23 pop.

My research was towards map making and I learned it about 1500BC. Then phil and col towards republic, but decided to do literature first to speed research. Republic was not finished, but traded for from France 610BC: 5 turns of anarchy.

Middle Ages started about 300BC (Herodotus named the English the "Most Powerful Nation" just a little bit earlier.)

Luckily I was able to claim the iron between France and Iroquois with a via a rushed temple from France. But it is not on the coast and relies on French harbors to deliver the ore home. And of course cultural pressure is heavy on it.

Still unclear how to continue ....

 

[Marcher Lord]

I had to abandon my game due to a corrupted install but will replay it just for practice. It looks "interesting"!

I did notice one thing I found very unusual though. I was always under the impression that barbarian camps would not appear in an area under surveillance. Like Denyd, I used my scout as a lookout on a hill after he revealed all he could. Some turns later, during the turn change sequence, I was watching as a barb camp appeared on a "lit-up" tile! It appeared with two units in it as well! Is this normal or just part of this GOTM setup?

 

[denyd]

I think there's something about the tile must be under surveillence of a unit with an attack rating. I've had a couple of past expierences where my settler moved to a clear tile only to have a barbarian village appear next to him in the interturn and of course it's right on the spot he's heading to.

 

[adrianj]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found this map annoying. I can't remember how things were looking coming into the middle ages, but I do remember one silly thing I did: Trying to score maps from a philosophy slingshot. Took me SO long to realise I was playing PTW. Oh well, at least I had something to trade when I eventually did meet the other civs.

 

[denyd]

I had to decide between Map Making & Literature and the corresponding Wonder and picked the right one as America completed the Great Lighthouse before I finished the research on Literature. I did manage to complete the Great Library, so once I met the AI, I was assured tech parity through the Middle Ages.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

I settled on the spot and started war.-war.-worker-granary-settler while scouting and researching writing at min. sci. I soon learned we were alone with two luxes, and barbs started appearing. My second city built barracks and vet warriors for barb control. Multiple cities were built at distances 4-5-7-8 I discovered writing in 2030BC after a couple of mistakes cost me two research turns, and then turned research up for mapmaking. I spotted purple borders in the east, but couldn't make contact through the barbs. Horsemen started appearing in camps in 1600BC. I lost a few warriors fighting barbs and two workers to a horseman out of the fog, but made some gold disbanding camps.
Mapmaking was discovered in 1325BC and I switched prebuilds to galleys in three cities and a harbor in another. London was making settlers and the occasional vet warrior or worker after chopping a barracks. Research was set to literature for libraries. In 1175BC, a galley made contact with the Vikings who still didn't know alphabet. I waited to trade for more contacts. We met the French in 1100AD who didn't know the Vikings, but already knew mapmaking. A round of trades left me down HBR to the Vikings and philosophy to the French. That's when I noticed the lack of resources on our island. I switched warrior builds to archers to keep pressing the barbs back. I could also see borders on the map I got from the Vikings.
At 1000BC, I had 7 cities, 16 citiizens, 6 workers, 6/3/2 warriors, 2 galleys, 2 barracks, a granary, and only one lux. I got lit. at monopoly, but got beat to CoL and Republic, but traded for them cheap and had tech parity, but losing ground to the French and Americans. I held back on my revolt, and got currency at monopoly, traded for poly. and constr. and entered the MA in 270BC and revolted to Republic with a seven turn anarchy.
We became a Republic in 130BC with 15 cities and 45 pop., only one barb. camp left, two luxes, a decent world map without selling ours, and contact w/everyone. The French, Iroquois, and Americans all have a city on the home island, but won't get more. I'm one tech behind the French and Americans, even with the other three, embassies with all. Plans include 2-3 more cities to fill the home island, expansion to nearby islands, and a force build-up of archers/longbows/spears/cats/galleys to go after the Iroquois or Americans for their resources, and slowly build-up some research infrastructure. It's a long way to magnetism, and I'll be on the watch for berserkers the whole time. Too late now, but I wish London was on the isthmus, so ships could go both ways. My naval build-up will be as strong as I can afford. Pretty tough map so far.

 

[aobaki]

I had to decide between Map Making & Literature and the corresponding Wonder and picked the right one as America completed the Great Lighthouse before I finished the research on Literature. I did manage to complete the Great Library, so once I met the AI, I was assured tech parity through the Middle Ages.

Yes, you are right. I think, first "map making" then "literature" for taking free tech. I researched all AIs and all of the world before 1000 BC but I can not find useful resource close to me. It is wery far, near the indian area. Wery hard game.....I finished Great library about 300BC then I attacked to Iraques with Medaival infantry..its going fine........

 

[Megalou]

denyd, I never figured you for a ranter. Back-ranting would include: Are you rationalizing your mistake of building a second scout on a small archipelago map? Must all the benefits like early trading and resources be available? It would be nice to see a game where lots of people struggle to win and I don't think this one will even be like that because of the limited expansion possibilities of the AI.

(This is all for arguments sake. I swear I'm not upset with you. I just got the message "Hello Megalou, it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution, or participate in a discussion in any one of our forums?" so I thought I should do something.)

 

[denyd]

Welcome back Megalou

My rant is more frustration at the waste of a trait than the increased difficulty that the "Gilligan's Island" scenario presents. With EXP on a no hut island, it's as bad as putting Portugal in the middle of a large panegea. I like to see what a tribe can do when I play them, not what they are bad at.

 

[Desertsnow]

I'm glad I decided to sit this one out. I would not have survived the Ancient era, even in Conquest class.

 

[denyd]

Right now, I'm waiting to see what the COTM is before commiting anymore time to this one. With 2 XOTM's + SGOTM + a PBEM & a DTPEM game, I can really afford only one XOTM per month.

DesertSnow, this is a good one to practice settling with RCP and dealing with barbarians. Just plan on either getting out an early Galley or go for the Great Library and you should be able to keep up with the AI until the late Middle Ages (at least).

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I do have to say - in ptw, england is tough enough - to have an expansionist civ with no huts at all is a pain. No scientific civs helps balance that - though most of the opponents are commercial.

I got to the middle ages in 330 BC - I got beat to republic by 4 turns, so was only able to leverage it into polytheism and I had to research both currency and construction manually.

2 GOTM in a row with an expanionsit civ, and I think I got to pop 2 huts, total.

At least we have desert, which means saltpeter, which means men o war, which is ok...

 

[denyd]

When (if) I go back to this one, I'll know in about 6 turns if there's local SP

If not this one's might be headed for Davy Jones' Locker, aaarrrgh

 

[Megalou]

Welcome back Megalou

My rant is more frustration at the waste of a trait than the increased difficulty that the "Gilligan's Island" scenario presents. With EXP on a no hut island, it's as bad as putting Portugal in the middle of a large panegea. I like to see what a tribe can do when I play them, not what they are bad at.

I agree that there has been little use of the Expansionist trait. I find the scout especially helpful in 4000 BC, but this time he was virtually pointless. I did, however, open one rotten hut. I think that huts should be tweaked if they are rare, in such a way that they always contain something useful (better than deserted, map of the area or warrior - even better than worker if you are EXP). This would add excitement. (Hey - I'm really back!)

 

[denyd]

My thought if the tribe is EXP is to allow them to build curraghs along with scouts. That would allow for exploration of the waters as well as the land. There still would be a lack of huts, but at least early contact would allow for a trade broker situation.

 

[Chamnix]

Predator, going for domination.

I started with worker southwest, London founded on the spot, and research set to Pottery at maximum.

My farmer’s gambit turned out well on this map. London built settler, granary, settler, settler, settler, then finally warriors + settlers.

Other cities at RCP 3 and 6.

After pottery completed, I started writing. Writing completed in 1950 BC, and, since I still had no contacts, I went for Map Making which completed in 1425 BC. I pop-rushed a couple galleys for quicker exploration.

I had no problem trading myself into the tech lead. France and the Iroquois hadn’t even met each other by the time I had met both, and the Iroquois still lacked Alphabet.

QSC:

10 Towns
25 Citizens
12 Workers
17 Warriors
3 Galleys

550 BC - Discover Republic. Revolt drawing 7 turns of anarchy; reroll for 6.

530 BC – I give Republic to the Iroquois to prevent pop-rushing and declare. Renegotiate peace with France and sign a military alliance against the Iroquois.

490 BC - Land 5 archers and a spear by the Iroquois horse town and capture it the next turn.

Unfortunately my second strike force of 4 veteran archers and 1 elite archer failed to capture the Iroquois iron town defended by 2 regular spears on flat ground. After that, my attack on the Iroquois petered out – I did not have a coastal route available to ship the horses home (it was blocked by Iroquois culture), and my archers were no much for the Iroquois swords.

Fortunately, the French decided to sign peace with the Iroquois and declare on me. I could then guiltlessly sign peace with the Iroquois, ship ponies back to the mainland, and prepare a real military for France.

350 BC - Complete Currency and trade my way into the Middle Ages.

I don’t mind resourceless starts much on occasion. Regarding goody huts, I wonder if it is really necessary to remove the nearby huts anymore. I know they are typically removed to minimize luck, but without the ability to pop settlers, I don’t know if it matters much. I don’t really see someone’s popping a couple extra AA techs as gamebreaking. I suppose there is still the chance of popping cities, but (I think) putting the nearest huts on mountains prevents that.

 

[civ_steve]

My thought if the tribe is EXP is to allow them to build curraghs along with scouts. That would allow for exploration of the waters as well as the land. There still would be a lack of huts, but at least early contact would allow for a trade broker situation.

One of the concerns for setting up the GOTM/COTM is to make a fairly balanced competition for all players. Watering down the EXP trait by removing most nearby GH's still maintains a fair competiton. We've found the opposite by leaving GH's in place; the handful of players (which will be a smaller handful with the number of current participants) who get the free Settler or city have a sizeable advantage vs those who got maps. If more GH's were included then players would be 'ranting' about how player so-and-so got the settler and they didn't. Likewise, iron locations are fixed; losing Iron can have a tremendous random effect on a player's game.

Curraghs would be a possible substitute for PTW EXP civs, but that would require a specialized set-up with downloaded files. We've moved away from using special set-ups because of the number of players who wouldn't play using them.

I have sometimes provided a bonus setup to all players to account for nearby GH's, such as increased Gold or an extra Warrior. That would be an option for future EXP civs to provide some benefit for the trait. Another option would be to bump up the research cost of Pottery; this would provide the player a more valuable Tech for trading purposes, and probably slow down the non-EXP AI civs from learning Pottery.

 

[denyd]

Civ_Steve: Thanks for considering changes for the EXP tribes.