GOTM70 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 70 - first spoiler, the Ancient Age

Reading Requirements:

1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.
2. Must have contact will all civ(s) on your starting continent

Posting restrictions

1. No maps showing resources from middle-ages (or later).
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later).
3. Limit discussion of any activities off continent; contact dates and trade details are usually OK, but do not provide information about direction or location.
4. AS ALWAYS, do not post Spoiler information for ANY other 'X'OTM contest.

So, any problems with any neighbor(s) on your starting continent? For that matter, what problems have you encountered with your starting position, and what sort of remedies have you applied? Do you have some plans for the Middle Ages, or are you just getting by?

 

[megistatos]

Hooray the spoiler's open.

I definitely had some problems with my neighbours.

Everything started quite well. I settled NE and was delighted that this would soon give me wheat in the capital's radius. I built two warriors and both went off exploring- I planned to use the luxury slider, and wanted to meet my neighbours as soon as possible. Meanwhile I had been setting up a four turn settler factory, and it had started work on its first settler when I met Germany's exploring spearman. I think it was planning to go around Madrid on the eastern side but it saw my undefended city from a mountain. So the spearman entered my territory next to Madrid. My nearest warrior was two turns away at this point. I gave Bismark 1gpt, but unsurprisingly he declared war and captured Madrid in 2850BC.

I suppose I'll get another medal at least!

A disappointing yet amusing Conquest Defeat in 2850BC to Germany
Firaxis:89
Jason:77
Time Played: 40 minutes

I'm guessing that perhaps Germany was set more aggressive than normal. Or will the AI always attack in such a situation? I tried the turn again, giving Germany everything I could but it made no difference. It would be a bit of a silly game if the computer didn't take such glorious opportunities anyway.

It's a reminder that I mustn't neglect defence so much, or underestimate the computer, especially on higher difficulties.

Good luck to everyone else!

 

[Megalou]

How in the world did you manage to start a four turn settler factory? Did your settler wander southwest?

 

[Megalou]

Predator

Sorry, megistatos about that bad luck. I nearly went the same way. I settled my 4th or 5th town on the closest luxury, the incense hill, and it was soon razed by a couple of German archers. The raging barbarians also caused problems, but they seem to have stopped a German attack on my core, too.

Eventually I still had to pay a lot of gold for peace, while I was doing a 40 turn research on Map Making. But towards the end of the AA I was definately on top of the Germans through swordsmen.

I was poor when I met my first off-shore contacts and so I sold contact with Germany to reach parity.

When the Middle Ages came a few turns before the year 0, I was attacking Germany striving for both their land and the three first layer MA techs. I got a leader.

I have already built The Great Lighthouse. I planned the Colossus first but eventually I realized that it would have given a much too early GA. I had to put Barcelona in civil disorder for about 6 turns to avoid getting Colossus.

I am now planning to get either Sistine Chapel or Bach's Cathedral. The latter is usually better, but the lack of luxuries and the cheap cathedral makes the former a plausable choice.

I like three things about this start:
*The tough starting location
*The barbs
*The fact that the rest of the world might prove hard to conquer.

Great game in all!

 

[civ_steve]

I'm glad you're enjoying it! One of the themes I wanted to include in this GOTM was the long struggle against the Moors to establish the nation known as Spain (note the picture of the El Cid statue on the GOTM70 download page). I set this up by establishing a 2 civ continent, with Spain vs Germany - one of the more aggressive civs; you really can't see what's going on in the rest of the world without resolving the Germany issue first.

megistatos - sorry about the quick departure ; this is definitely a risk with a militaristic aggressive neighbor like Germany. No, I did not modify them - Bismark is naturally aggressive and you can expect problems early. You might retry your early game for practice and be sure to leave a MP in Madrid. The AI knows whether a city is guarded or not and if they decide to attack they usually head straight to the unguarded city, so it is inviting an attack to leave your capital unguarded if you know there are aggressive civs nearby.

 

[megistatos]

How in the world did you manage to start a four turn settler factory? Did your settler wander southwest?

Actually I settled one tile north east. This gave me the cow, one wheat, and 5 BGs. More than enough for the factory which was due to give it's first settler in 2670BC.

@civsteve: Are you saying that the AI knows if a city is unguarded even if it's units/territory can't actually see it? And do they know how well defended cities are?
I doubt I'll get to replay this game- I've started my first conquests deity as a practice up for the one you've been promising!

 

[Megalou]

Oh silly me, I forgot about the wheats. Yeah, I'm sure that the AI know where the defense is weak. We often see ships come out of nowhere to land troops very strategically. Let's call it micro-espionage...

 

[civ_steve]

@civsteve: Are you saying that the AI knows if a city is unguarded even if it's units/territory can't actually see it? And do they know how well defended cities are?

It's been documented (and used!) that the AI knows where the unguarded cities are and will head towards them when mounting an attack. I believe it's an on-off type of knowledge; I don't believe they generally know how well defended a city is, or where a player's units are located.

Another piece of AI 'mini-espionage' - the AI knows if it's path to a destination is blocked or not. Players will use this to set up temporary blocks, then open one side of the block enticing the AI to send its units in that direction, see them approach, re-block here and open up another opening on the other side. The AI will ping pong back and forth between the two openings depending on which is currently open.

In both cases, city is/isn't garrisoned and path is/isn't blocked, the AI knows the situation without any units being within view.

 

[megistatos]

Thanks. I'll have to bare this in mind. It's not exactly fair though.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I believe the AI knows fully well where everything you have is but makes absurdly poor use of the information, mr mod. I'm saying the following in light of many AW succession games that have been going around where all we do is observe and counter the AI during war times. It is qualitative and probably is neither exact, nor that far from the actual truth.

They will go for the most accessible target, undefended if they can, without an army if possible, with an army in it if they can't really go around the city. They will hunt for workers and settlers that are left in the open when no strategic target is easily ran into - like undefended cities or a ressource tile to pillage for instance. They won't go 15 tiles deep into your territory to find an undefended metro, in any case.

They will run around cities that have no strategic value to try and capture cities with ressources, wether they have or not scouted the tiles around the ressource. As a last resort, defender units that no longer have attack units to cover will pillage ressources, trade routes or simply the tile they're on, in that order as much as possible.

I got a conquest defeat as well, saw the german stack, backed away all my warriors to home (I almost only made warriors) and lost. I moved E from the start on a wrongful fog-gaze attempt and I believe this was our undoing: the one turn that the Germans settled and had to acquire targets for their stack, there was our settler and worker down south, both quite undefended.

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator

Entered the Middle Ages in 170 BC without having met anyone else than Germany. Said nation lives in a single jungle city near my second core, which was established through joining Workers to Leipzig and abandoning Madrid in 470 BC. All war fought with Archers and Workers. Republic established in 530 BC.

Oh, and I captured The Pyramids in Berlin.

On the low side my Galleys were all killed by Barbarians or sunk on the first round off the coast. No Leader so far, but also just a few Elite victories. The other continent reached the Middle Ages in 570 BC, apparently earlier than in Megalou's game.

Worker count: 37 plus 4 Slaves. A lot to do.

 

[civ_steve]

A number of players will probably experience early conquest defeats to Germany. I think it would be very informative for the general Civ population if players who successfully contain Germany were to detail any techniques they used to avoid getting steamrolled by an early attack. In a similar situation I might gift Bismark 1 gpt shortly after meeting him; makes him much happier with me and less likely to start thinking about an attack.

 

[Osama McDonald]

Moderator Action: Replaced image with edited image taking out Spoiler information. Please do not post any information regarding off-continent data!

I'm doing so well... The sad thing is that I've only just realized that I don't have the proper patch installed...

More or less in a nutshell, as soon as I found Germany, I piled up wealth and warriors and went straight for his iron source, which took me some time to find. By the time I had my stack ready, he had already expanded just as much if not more so as I did. But anyway, after finding his iron I blotted out the city with about 10 swordsmen through a broken treaty---more on the way. He already had adequate millitary built, but as I kept them coming he couldn't do so much. I struggled to capture his cities, as he kept sending archers for me unguarded bases at home... I had to break MANY treaties here... It took awhile. But anyhow, I eventually was able to contain him and allow myself to build in peace around the AD interval--much through breaking treaties--my rep isn't so nice. I finished him off with ease as time went on.

I might as well go for a culture victory and just pray that the superior mainland civs don't tear me to sheds... My bad rep isn't going to help me with these frenchies.

 

[Chamnix]

It was interesting watching the discussion in the pre-game thread about whether or not to move from the BG once I had already started the game. In post #21, it looks like Lanzelot said pretty much exactly what I would have said anyway…

Predator class, going for space (just because PaperBeetle said he was going for space in the pregame discussion, and if we are going to fight it out for the #2 GPR slot, it seems fitting we should go for the same VC ).

I started out worker to the cow and founded Madrid on the spot. And I was quite to find that people who moved off the BG were rewarded with a 4-turn factory although now it looks like they were more often the victims of an early attack. Initial research was Pottery at 100%. I built 1 warrior, then a bunch of settlers for all the food bonuses, and eventually a granary in the capital – warriors came from everywhere that had too many shields and not enough food for a worker or settler.

Research went Pottery to Writing to Literature then toward Republic.

I didn’t intentionally do anything just to appease Germany, but he kept having workers available, so possibly our trades kept me out of trouble. I got one German worker (plus 10 gold) for Alphabet, then a turn or two later, I bought a second for Pottery and 3 gpt.

QSC:

10 towns
28 citizens
1 settler
14 native workers
2 slaves
16 warriors.



In 825 BC, the massive Barbarian uprising occurred. I was only lacking Mathematics, Iron Working, Construction, Currency, Warrior Code, Mysticism, Polytheism, and Horseback Riding (and a government) to get out of the Ancient Age .

I was fortunate to make overseas contact in 710 BC.

In 630 BC, I completed the Republic and traded my way into the Middle Ages.

Germany and I left each other alone through the Ancient Age (although it did annoy me that they never bothered hooking up an extra source of silks for me – maybe they didn’t have enough workers left ).

 

[Più Freddo]

I started out worker to the cow and founded Madrid on the spot. And I was quite to find that people who moved off the BG were rewarded with a 4-turn factory

I also started on the spot, but I'm not so sure about how much better a four-turner would have been. I needed quite a lot of Warriors for the Barbarians and was rather pleased with my six-turner producing either three Warriors or a Warrior and an Archer to each Settler. The two Wheats I used for a Worker pump.

All I did in order to keep German skirmishers away was to make sure that the cities closest to Germany were defended by a Warrior. Lesson learned from GOTM69. When they declared war after a rejected ultimatum in 1375 BC I had already trained two Archers and simply enjoyed the War Happiness until I was offered some techs and the first city in my soon-to-be second core up north for peace.

 

[Megalou]

Predator

On the low side my Galleys were all killed by Barbarians or sunk on the first round off the coast. No Leader so far, but also just a few Elite victories. The other continent reached the Middle Ages in 570 BC, apparently earlier than in Megalou's game.

This I would not know. Their research was "in the fog" because I was so far behind and I did not note when the uprising took place. (Good start, Più Freddo. I'd give a few gold to figure out how you could get the upper hand on the Germans so quickly and establish your republic that early.)

I have already explained how I survived the early German attack. They attacked a town that was pretty far from my core and so I could buy peace when they got too close - the barbs deterred them and my defenders were busy with the barbs. Germany seems to have attacked on the fly because they came in from two directions. The town was defended by a reg warrior so this was no deterrence.

 

[Più Freddo]

This I would not know. Their research was "in the fog" because I was so far behind and I did not note when the uprising took place.

I thought you first reached parity and then the Middle Ages. Apparently a misinterpretation. But when the uprisings take place, i.e. when the second tribe in the game reaches the Middle Ages, the fat military advisor shouts it into your ear!

(Good start, Più Freddo. I'd give a few gold to figure out how you could get the upper hand on the Germans so quickly and establish your republic that early.)

I have no idea why Germany didn't send its extra Archers to me. Probably they were busy scouting and hunting down Barbarians. I lost a few Archers to Barbarians, maybe they did, too.

I know that my scouting Warrior happened to avoid German lands. Could that have helped? I also had the luck to pop Bronze Working from a hut and could then trade for The Wheel with the Germans on our first encounter. Maybe my knowing BW held them back?

Research went Pottery (13 turns), Writing (31), Literature (17), Philosophy (7), Code of Laws (9), Mathematics (7), The Republic (17). Was that really so fast? I didn't even take the shortest route. The Forbidden Palace was finished as I researched The Republic. No libraries at this point.

The real war with Germany started in 750 BC. Archers moved up on a straight road built especially for the purpose by a gang of three Workers. Resistance was very weak, only a couple of Spearmen per city. I saw one Swordsman and no Horsemen although both resources were connected by the Germans.

 

[milr]

Open class, first submission, though I've played/replayed most GOTM's over last year or so. Settled in place, researched pottery, built warriors until could build settler and not be back down to one resident. Built cities right & left of capital, each guarded by early warrior builds. Only used those early warriors to find left/right settlement locations, and drift north/south while awaiting the settlers.

Thinking I was alone on a smallish island (found east&west coasts, and perforce southern coast was not far away, I figured to research & pre-build toward the Lighthouse, while building settlements to the north. Then the German spears wandered by, and I knew from prior experience that I best gear up for war. So I researched to IW, found some south (and stumbled onto some to the north), while using some of the expanding cities production to buld workers so I would be able to share the iron wealth. Then I built swords & settlers, expanding north toward Germany. When a German spear/settler tried to march across my latest settlement, I didn't bother with formalities, I just attacked with my sword, taking first blood in the conflict, which didn't end til after the age. Throughout this age, I was mostly on defence, as I tried to build a stack to penetrate into Germany's core Catapuilts helped me soften the German waves. Took a city, lost it. Lost an undefended city to an un-noticed German landing. Retook the city.

Barbs were not a problem. I really don't like raging barbs, so I stationed warriors on the southern hills (after knocking out the early barb settlements) to prevent their return. The only barb horses I encountered were from the northwest, and I think some of them went after Germans. I also suspect the Germans got a dose of barbs from elsewhere in their territory as the war cooled down for a few turns. As the age is ending for me, I am aware how very far behind in technology I've fallen. But I also feel I'm getting the upper hand on the Germans, who apparently now have fewer cities then I've been able to amass. I've never done so well at Emperor level, and have never won at this level against prior GOTM's I've practiced against.

 

[Megalou]

I thought you first reached parity and then the Middle Ages. Apparently a misinterpretation. But when the uprisings take place, i.e. when the second tribe in the game reaches the Middle Ages, the fat military advisor shouts it into your ear!

My advisor does have the habit of yelling in fear, but his employer Megalou is not in the habit of taking civ notes. I usually note when I switch era myself, because I get annoyed when I read interesting spoilers that leave that out.

"Parity" was a rough approximation, because the other nations were not at parity among themselves. If I find the time I'll check the actual dates.

 

[Più Freddo]

I usually note when I switch era myself, because I get annoyed when I read interesting spoilers that leave that out.

Yes, spoilers without dates are not very interesting.