GOTM78 - Final Spoiler

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GOTM 78 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted



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I'm of the opinion that we wont need a separate Middle Age thread. :) How did you finish off your game? Any problems at all with the AI? And did anyone go for conquest?
 
20K victory in 1866.
Firaxis 1650, Jason 4700

Salamanca was my 20K city.
After late start of MA and losing some AA wonders in a cascade I had good luck with leaders. I built Sistine, Copernicus and Newton with GLs, and built the rest of MA wonders in MA and IA: I got all of them except Sun Tsu and Leonardo.

I got GA after capturing Pyramids from Zulu and building some wonder at home, I got it right after we became Industrial (at around 1200s).
I started building Smith before entering GA and it was some turns till Factories, so I decided to finish it. Took 17 turns even with GA + RR later... Salamanca output was around 40 then. In hindsight, should have wasted some GA turns on Factory/CP and do some faster building...

We went modern at around 1600s. We destroyed everybody in the end except one town of India, trying to fish for GLs.

We had a power failure at home at 1745AD, I reloaded the game then and hope it's OK. Salamanca was maxed out long since then (at 77 spt), and we were mostly slaughtering Carthage for GLs, so at this point the game was basically decided.
We had bad luck with GLs in the Modern Age but then right after 1776 (note the date, heh!) we got a bunch of them in a few turns, some from India after destroying Carthage, and built all Modern Wonders except Manhattan with GLs.
We were done with big wonders and mostly pressing Enter by early 1800s.
 
swordsman_small.gif

Predator OCC Challenge

Cities :rolleyes:
4000 BC Settle in place, scout, warrior, 100% CB...

Huts
3900 worker!
3800 Pottery

timetable
3600 meet Iros, get CB.
2850 BW (self)
2390 Mysticism (self), WC (Iro)
2110 we hit size 5, 10spt :smug:
1425 Polytheism (self), IW, TW (Iro)
1025 brave worker brought water to our capital down from the great lakes :lol:
490 Monarchy (self, minsci), HBR (Iro along with 200g, previously gifted - they turn polite) revolt, draw 4 turns :dubious:
470 reroll - three turns :ack:
410 Monarchy installed
390 HG start GA.
290 Alphabet (Iro)
190 Vikings finish Pyramides - we just lost our prebuild with 153 shields... :gripe:
150 Writing
30 AD GA is over. No prebuild - no wonder build. Wasted :sad:
150 AD Literature
280 AD meet Greece, get contact to Mongols and Carthage. CoL, Phil, MM (Greece), Republic (Zulus)
400 Currency (Greece)
420 Construction (Mongols)
600 Feudalism, Engineering (TGL)
780 Monotheism (TGL)
800 Washinfton reaches size 7! :bounce:
950 Invention (TGL)
1150 Gunpowder (TGL) Nobody sells iron or salt...
1160 Chivalry (TGL)
1300 Chemistry (TGL)
1315 Theology (TGL)
1365 Metallurgy (TGL)
1400 PP, Edu (TGL), Switch government to Republic.
1465 Astro (Carthage), MT (Greece)
1490 Music (self)
1495 Navigation (Iro)
1570 Physics (self), Banking (Greece). Contact to India :lol:
1645 ToG (self), Democracy (Greece)
1690 Magnetism (self), reach IA. Free Artistry (Greece)
1705 All At wonders built, running out of prebuild at 130 shields :gripe: Ended up building an expensive market...
1782 Industrialization (Celts), Medicine (Greece)
1808 Sanitation (self), Electrocty (Iroquois), Corp (Greece), Nationalism (Vikings).
1824 finally reaching size 12...
1852 Carthage finishes ToE :sad:
1864 Steel (self), RP (Celts),
1898 I eliminate the Zulus because I can do it. :smug:
1902 AT (self), Refining, Communism (Viking), Combustion (Iro)
1940 Electronics (self), Mass Production (Iro), Amphibious War (Viking)
1966 Motorized Transportation (self)
1973 Flight (India) - we reach the Modern Times!
1977 Carthage finishes UN :shifty:
1986 We reach 20k and win :bounce:

culture
4000 BC palace
3250 BC temple
1990 BC Colossus
1100 BC Oracle
390 BC Hanging Gardens
190 AD Library
590 Great Library
700 Colosseum
910 Cathedral
1305 Leonardo's...
1470 Cope's
1500 University
1650 Newton
1940 Intelligence Agency

result
Entry class: Predator
Game status: Cultural 20K Victory for America
Game date: 1986 AD
Firaxis score: 213
Jason score: 712
Time played: 05:23:52

pics


This game was funny, although my neighbours-by-surprise gave me some scary moments... :shifty: But they stayed peaceful throughout the game :love:
The tech pace was awful and I cannot remember a Ptw-20k-attempt without a single MGL...
Now who picked up the challenge? :)
 
Research in the middle ages:
After discovering construction in 210BC I gifted Greece into the middle ages, they got Engineering (which kind of sucked as I wanted to get to Chivalry asap) which I traded for the Republic. By not getting feudalism or monotheism I decided to also gift Carthage into the middle ages, hoping that either Greece or Carthage would research Feudalism as I would go for the Navigation route and therefore postponing Chivalry a bit. I got Monotheism in 30BC and Theology in 110AD.

I changed that plan after getting my second GL right before I discovered Theology and Feudalism still wasn’t available. I decided to research Feudalism (190AD) myself to be able to rush Sun Zu’s with the leader, discovered Chivalry in 260AD after I went back to the navigation route, getting education in 300AD, Astronomy in 340AD and Navigation in 390AD.

Miscellaneous:
* Jumped the palace in 90BC to Nidaros (former capital of Scandinavia)
* Golden Age started in 110AD after building the Colussus in New York.

Wars:
* Because I wanted to prepare for the palace jump there were no wars between 210BC and 10AD, in 10 AD I declared on the Mongols (again), finishing them in 290AD
* I started and finished a war against the Zulu in 310AD by taking their 3 cities
* I captured the final Scandinavian city in 340AD and killed a wondering settler in 350AD which meant the end for Scandinavia.
* Also started the war against the Celts in 350AD, killing them in 410AD.
* Finally met India in 410AD, declaring war in 440AD
* Started the war against Carthage in 430AD and the great Greece war began in 480AD.
* I finished off Carthage in 500AD, and Greece and India in 530AD

Conquest victory in 540AD
 
Space Race victory, 2020 AD. Not too fast, I know, never quite got research up to 4-turn times.

*Settled 1 S in 3950 BC.
*The Olmecs gave me a free second city in 3700 BC. Not the greatest location ever, but hey, I'm not complaining when I get a free city. Made it into a military base.
*Colossus in Washington in 1450 BC.
*Declared war on the Iroquois in 825 B.C. Have bad luck. Lose Philadelphia, near Salamanca, and my first attack is repulsed. Regain the upper hand and finish them off before they get a single Mounted Warrior.
*Get two cities in on the other continent.
*Carthage is already strong and wins a war against the Celts in the early AD's.
*Sistine Chapel in Washington in 1080.
*The Mongols take one of my two cities on the other continent in the 1300's. I sign Zululand against them and retake it.
*The jungle north of Zululand is a major battleground until the Industrial Ages. Everyone on the continent except Zululand and Mongolia fights over it.
*Copernicus in Washington in 1390 AD. It's a major science city.
*J.S. Bach's in Boston in 1430 AD. The two happiness wonders really help with war weariness later (I'm a Republic).
*In the 1500's the Mongols conquer Scandinavia and I conquer most of Greece.
*Smith's in 1545 in New York. Didn't actually use it as much as usual.
*In 1640 Zululand defeats Sparta, the last Greek holdout.
*Sometime around then I find out India exists.
*Newton's in Washington in 1770 AD.
*In the late 1700's, the Mongols storm my Greek lands and take almost all my holdings on the continent. My workers run for their lives, but some are captured before being evacuated to the homeland. One city alone remains mine and holds back many Mongol attackers.
*I have to trade with the Celts for coal. How inconvenient.
*In the mid-1800's the Carthaginians capture most of Greece from Mongolia in an apparent sea landing, and I capture what they don't. I then capture most of Scandinavia from Mongolia.
*Universal Suffrage in 1854 AD in Boston. One of the few times it's really worth it - usually I don't go to war so much in a war-weariness government.
*By now it's the mid-early 1900's and Carthage is still a couple hundred points ahead of me. I also have just beat everyone to tanks. So I DOW them and over the next 50 years conquer them.
*Trigger a Golden Age with F-15's about 1960. I find them kind of useful thanks to their superior range to PTW Bombers and nearly-equal firepower. I'm used to the more powerful and longer-range Conquests Bombers.
*Hoover Dam in Carthage in 1961. It's not too long after that before I take it.
*American Apollo Program in 1974 in Cadiz, which I'd just conquered from Carthage (great leader rush). Gave me a significant head start in the space race; a tech advantage of about 2 techs also was key.
*SETI in Entremont in 1997. I'd hoped to get in Washington but there simply weren't enough shields :(.
*The UN in New York in 1998. India was a few turns from getting it, which probably would have been disastrous for me. The same year, India did complete the Manhattan Project, and proceeded to build a tactical nuke, but no nuclear submarine. So it was purely for coastal defence.
*The Internet in 1998 in Cadiz. Figured it would be good to deny it to the AI in a three-way Space Race.
*Mongolia DOW'ed the much-stronger Celts in 2017, apparently trying to capture rubber. As expected, their Cavalry attack on the Celtic Mechanized Infantry was a suicide charge. But what it did accomplish was getting me to DOW the Celts, because I had a MPP with Mongolia. I didn't want this of course, so I DOW'ed the Mongols a year later for the foolhardiness. The Celts captured a couple of insignificant cities from me, but didn't even try to advance against my Modern Armor and Air Force stronghold guarding the way to my spaceship (they lacked Modern Armor). They never used their one Tactical Nuke (I'd yet to complete a nuke).
*The Celts razed the Great Wall in Zimbabwe in 2018 AD. I didn't know it was flammable. Learn something new every day I guess.
*Launch in 2020. India had 2 parts completed and was working on 1 at the time; the Celts had 1 completed and were working on 2. Mongolia had just made it into the Modern Age.

Overall a very fun game. Rushed it a bit because I got a very late start on it, but managed to pull out a win, if far from my most impressive on Warlord. Got a good variety of warfare - Ancient, Industrial, and even some Modern. Also had opponents with nukes (OK, one per nuclear opponent) for the first time in a very long time.
 
Predator, domination victory in 1190AD
Firaxis: 2393
Jason: 8547

I had a similar start to most, filling my island and conquering the Iroquois to reach the MA by 290BC. Salamanca built the Pyramids the turn before I captured it, but I would have been better served to have this wonder on the food rich second continent. Initial war against the Zulu went well and a couple of phony wars produced war happiness. I kept the Celts fighting Carthage, but this only seemed to make Carthage stronger.

My next target was Greece around 10 AD. This war went fairly quickly, but resulted in many losses of knights versus hoplites. This slowed down my attack against the Mongols and Scandinavia and I should have saved them for when my forces were more built up.

By 500AD only the Celts and Carthage were left on this continent. It took quite a bit of time to build roads through the jungles to the north and settlers to gain territory. Carthage was also a pain with high losses and many flips, but they were eventually conquered, also. It took much longer than expected to reach the dom limit after attacking the Celts and I think researching navigation and going for conquest against India might have been quicker than building settlers and temples for domination. A very nice game and somewhat difficult for warlord.
 
First of all a big :thanx: too Paul#42! I had already agreed to join his OCC 20K Challenge, but then I ran out of time on COTM47 and only got 1900 Jason points for an unfinished game, so I wanted to play GOTM78 for full score. And Paul let me do it!

So here you get my first ever attempt at Conquest. During the game I had the impression that even though a couple of things/decisions went wrong, overall I was doing ok. But after seeing Neo666's finish date, I realize something must have gone seriously wrong in my game... :hatsoff: Therefore here are a couple of thoughts about where I went wrong:

  • Finished the Iroquois in 1575BC, but only got one of their two cities: after taking the capital, I waited for one turn before attacking the second town. I thought that once a town has generated at least one culture point, it won't get auto-razed. But to my surprise it got razed! Lesson learned (as described by Neo666 in the first spoiler): need to wait until the town expands its border... "Loosing" a town that early on has certainly been a drawback.

    Also, after seeing Neo's spoiler, it may not have been such a good idea to take out the Iroquois that early?! Letting them settle the north part of our island and then taking lets say 5 towns later might have been more efficient (especially as I didn't have a settler factory to fill in the space quickly). And their towns would perhaps been a bit more productive than mine, being that far from the Palace. But I thought, after they were no longer useful as a tech trading partner, I might as well take them over...
  • Kept the towns of my first core at size 6 and maxed them for production using a mixture of irrigations&mines. Like everyone else I brought fresh water south from the great lakes, but after the towns had hit size 6, I turned those tiles, which were not needed for food, into mines. Perhaps it would have been better to build aquaeducts and harbors and go to size 12 for an increased commerce? But originally I thought I would only need to go to Chivalry, which seemed easily possibly with the commerce I had + some trading, so I concentrated on turning out vet chariots/horsemen as fast as possible...
  • After discovering Alpha, I first attacked the Zulus, because the were the weakest at that time. But this was definitely a mistake: first of all, their territory was all jungle, so inappropriate for my second core! I should have gone for the Celts first, who had nice terrain and a perfectly setup RCP5! This misdecision delayed my Palace Jump for a couple of centuries, during which I had to do with a single core. And secondly my horsemen suffered significant losses against the Impis! I only reckoned that the defense value of an Impi is the same as that of a spearman, but I forgot to take into account, that horsemen won't retreat when loosing the fight, because the Impi is a fast unit, too! After the Zulus were finally conquered, my attack force was almost reduced to nothing, so I had to slow down to rebuild my military...
  • Stopped research once after Chivalry and once after Military Tradition. I hoped that the "missing Indians" would sooner or later be discovered by someone (or would discover us). But that was not to be... So a couple of turns before my last enemy would disappear, I took up research again and filled the gap up to Navigation. (As usual, all my suicide galleys and suicide caravels had sunk the very first turn on open sea... :) ) Neglecting the search for India cost me ~150 years: I finished everyone else by ~1050AD, and wiping out the backward Indians only took two turns, once I found them...
  • Attacked Greece with Knights. Again too high casualties (a Hoplite fortified in a town on a hill is quite a force!). Should have waited for Cavalry and instead turned my Knights against the Mongols. But those darn Greeks had sneak-attacked me...!
  • I wanted to start my Golden Age as soon as my second core would be productive. I had already hand-built the Colossus very early (10AD) in my homeland, thinking that I then would only need to capture an industrious Great Wonder to trigger my GA. So when the second core was up and running, I captured the Scandinavian city of Nidaros, which had built the Great Wall, but no GA kicked in! :mad: I remembered that I had read a thread in the strategy forum or in one of the older GOTM discussions, which explained the mechanics of how triggering the GA via Great Wonders works and dug it up again. Apparently capturing a wonder does not trigger a "GA check", only completing one yourself does. And then it does not matter, what kind of wonder you build, as long as you already have two wonders corresponding to your civ-specific treats. In the end I had to build another wonder (Leonardo's) to trigger my GA. To sum it up: the correct setup for this game would have been: a) forget about the Colossus, b) capture two wonders, one expansionst and one industrial, and c) time a prebuild for any wonder to coincide with the completion of my second core.

    This fact, combined with the very late completion of the second core, delayed the GA until 990AD, at which point it didn't have much effect anymore (the game was approaching the end anyway).

A word on the Palace Jump: I knew that in this game a Palace Jump would be necessary, so I already prepared/planned my first core for this. In Boston (distance 6 from Washington) I hand-built the Forbidden Palace and also arranged 6 other towns in an RCP3 around Boston, neglecting their location relative to Washington. During my battles an MGL popped up and I saved it for the Palace Jump. Then I captured the Celt's core, the capital plus 5 towns in a perfect RCP5. I added to towns of my own to get 7 at RCP5, rushed granaries and markets in a few of them and then built the Palace with my leader. I think this plan was quite ok, except that it should have been completed a couple of centuries earlier...

Aproximate QSC statistics:
9 towns
6 contacts, 2 embassies (one nation already eliminated, so that's actually 7 contacts...)
12 techs (the Iroquois prooved to be a very efficient early science partner: I got Bronze, Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial and Mysticism out of them!)
4 granaries, 2 temples and a barrack

Congrats to Paul#42 for your astounding 20K victory!!
Carthage did not call a UN election? Did everyone hate them, so they decided not to...?

And finally: after this game I still have no idea, what the F-15 is good for... :D
Cheers, Lanzelot
 
@ Lanzelot

I had no problems winning by conquest with Knights - I was using connect/disconnect most of the time and 0% research, but had the same problem with the Indians as you did (and solved it the same way!)

My biggest problem was elite Numidian Mercs fortified in cities on hills. Carthage must've got 'em from fighting barbs/other Civs (I wonder who started those wars? :satan: ). And they were a long, long way from my FP core in former Zululand.

I didn't bother with a Palace Jump (I don't think... was a while ago!). And the Iros were a pain in the butt, the RNG hated me and wiped out my Stack-o-Doom (half a dozen archers) pinging against one super-spear in Salamanca.

FWIW conquest in 1300AD for about 8k Jason.
 
First of all a big :thanx: too Paul#42! I had already agreed to join his OCC 20K Challenge, but then I ran out of time on COTM47 and only got 1900 Jason points for an unfinished game, so I wanted to play GOTM78 for full score. And Paul let me do it!
No need to thank me for that. After all it's a voluntary challenge (though obligatory if you want to keep your honor ;) ) and I myself left a challenge by chosing another vc in shortage of time. It all depends on the reasoning :p

Your Jason score however makes me a little envious :(

Nevertheless I think I won the OCCPC. :king:
Only participant :blush:
I guess it also earns me a shield. :woohoo:
 
No need to thank me for that. After all it's a voluntary challenge (though obligatory if you want to keep your honor ;) ) and I myself left a challenge by chosing another vc in shortage of time. It all depends on the reasoning :p

Your Jason score however makes me a little envious :(

Nevertheless I think I won the OCCPC. :king:
Only participant :blush:
I guess it also earns me a shield. :woohoo:

OK its yours - my OCC20k finished a little earlier but when Zulu town across the channel with iron flipped to me I couldnt find it in me to rebuff :blush:, so mine was a 1BC challenge and I suspect the only one

Culture buildings
Palace 4000BC
Temple 3050BC
Colossus 1870BC
Oracle 1100BC
G Lib 170AD
Lib 280AD
Collos 390AD
HG 750AD
Cathedral 790AD
Copernicus 1140AD
University 1220AD
Shakespears 1420AD
Universal Suff 1774AD
ToE 1806AD
Intell Agency 1872AD
UN 1938 (courtesy of my one and only leader in the game)
20k reached in 1954
 
OK its yours - my OCC20k finished a little earlier but when Zulu town across the channel with iron flipped to me I couldnt find it in me to rebuff :blush:, so mine was a 1BC challenge and I suspect the only one
:spank: Oh boy, that close to the end zone he dropped the ball!
What did you want to compete for? The award?!? :gripe:
 
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