GOTM80 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

GOTM 80 - first spoiler, the Ancient Age

Let's find out how your Persian empire started out!

Reading Requirements:

1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.
2. Must have contact with all remaining civs on your starting landmass.

Posting restrictions

1. Feel free to discuss off-continent contacts, but be discreet about locations or directions of these AI.
2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later).
3. AS ALWAYS, do not post Spoiler information for ANY other 'X'OTM contest.

So, did you found in place or move? What caused you to make some of your early decisions? How are the local AI treating you (or, how are you treating them! )? And what plans/problems do you have going into the Middle Ages?

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Predator, going for conquest victory:

I settled in place and started research on pottery at max science. Build order was 3 warriors followed by a granary assisted with a forest chop. First axe explored west and the second explored east then north.

3400BC Contact Aztecs--no trades yet
3350BC Discover pottery--research set to alpha at max
3100BC Contact Iroquois and spot wines--still no trades
2900BC Granary completes in Persepolis
2800BC Contact Egypt--still no trades
2590BC Found Pasargadae at RCP3 to the SW by the cow and wheat-starts a granary
2350BC Found Susa at RCP3 to the East--builds a couple warriors, a worker, then a rax
2310BC Discover alphabet--research set to writing at max science
Egypt: alphabet for masonry + 9 gold
Aztecs: masonry + pottery for cb + wc + 10 gold
2070BC Found Arbela RCP3 NW--build order warrior-worker-Pyramids(pre-build for GLH)
Iroquois: masonry + alpha for IW + 9 gold
1790BC Found Antioch RCP3 to the NE by the iron--build order warrior-worker-Palace(FP)
1675BC Discover writing--research set to CoL at max science
Egypt: writing for the wheel + 110 gold (only one source on the continent?)
Aztecs: writing for 42 gold
Establish 3 embassies--Aztecs and Egypt are at war--Aztecs only 2 cities
1600BC Found Tarsus at RCP6 to the west
1525BC Found Gordium at RCP6 to the NE
1425BC Found Bactra at RCP6 to the NE
1350BC Found Sidon at RCP8 by the wines
1325BC Discover CoL--set research to philo at max science
Found Sardis at RCP6 to the west by iron already claimed by the Aztecs
Found Tyre at RCP6 to the east
1275BC Iroquois: CoL for philosophy, HBR, mysticism + 18 gold--set research to Lit
1250BC Found Samaria not on ring to the west
1175BC Connect wine
1150BC Connect iron
1125BC Found Hamadan at RCP8
1050BC Found Ergili not on ring to the west
1025BC Discover lit and switch most builds to library--research set to Republic at max
1000BC Found Dariush Kabir not on ring at chokepoint with Iroquois to the north

QSC stats: 15 towns, 30 citizens, 2 granaries, 2 barracks, 11 warriors(4 veterans), 10 workers, iron, wine, 3 contacts with embassies, lacking math, currency, construction, MM, polytheism, or a gov't tech, 46 gold, pre-build for the GLHouse with 116 shields, FP build with 76 shields, building 10 libraries and 3 workers, 125 dom tiles, score 221, most of the continent scouted

Barbs have done no damage and I only had to clear a couple of camps before they disappeared forever from my core. War has gone badly for the Aztecs as they still only have 2 cities. My first target after the gov't change will be the Iroquois. I didn't found any more towns after these until much later in the game. The cheap libraries would produce enough culture so that there would be no flips the entire game.

900BC Aztecs: philo and CoL for MM + wm + 25 gold
Iroquois and Egypt MM for wm + gold
570BC Discover Republic--hold off on revolt for builds to complete--lone scientist on mathematics--start upgrading axes to immortals
550BC Forbidden Palace completes
510BC Great Light House completes--revolt for 7 turns of anarchy--taxmen I'm forced to hire go to upgrading axes to immortals
370BC establish Republic
330BC Declare war on the Iroquois after gifting Repuplic and resign peace treaty with the Aztecs for RoP and alliance; sign an ma against Iroquois with Egypt; stack of 20 immortals moves into Iroquois territory
310BC Auto-raze first Iroquois town starting GA--research back to max
290BC Capture Iroquois town; workers are following army building roads while another stack of workers builds roads through Aztec lands towards Egypt; new immortals go NW through Aztec lands toward Egypt; so far galleys have made no new contacts
270BC Discover mathematics
250BC Auto-raze one town and capture another
190BC Discover currency
170BC Capture Iroquois gems town and their capital with furs
90BC Discover construction--spot 3 different colored borders in two places
70BC Capture another Iroquois town
Contact England, Germany, and Vikings--establish embassies with each
Trade for contact with Russia and very nice world map and gold--Russia is at war with Germany; trade for Polytheism and enter the MA getting feudalism as free tech; gift Russia and Germany to the MA and they get monotheism and engineering which I trade for; declare war on Russia and re-sign peace with the Vikings for alliance; ally with Germany against Russia; nobody knows England who is in a GA with the Colossus build in 290BC; Russia has built the Pyramids

With 48 immortals, we're very strong versus all ai, so its just a matter of getting troops to the right place in the MA. My plan is to finish the ai on this continent and possibly jump the Palace with a leader. I'll ship troops to Russia soon and set up an RoP rape with England eventually.

 

[Nata]

Woo-hoo, my first ever AAC (Ancient Age Conquest) victory in 740AD!
Whew. I really got tired moving all those Immortals around.
We stayed strictly in AA but some AIs got to Feudalism. Didn't help them much, hee. GLH helped us a lot.
I'll post details later.

 

[DWetzel]

Open, going for a 20k.

Moved settler to the forest to the SE (to get on the coast), worker mined/roaded start tile. Went with 3 warriors, then settler, then temple.

Met Aztecs in 3000 BC or so; trade Masonry + Pottery for CB + WC + 10g.

Founded Pasargarde in 2900 BC due south of the cow to set up a settler factory. It built a granary, then a worker, then settlers for a very long time.

Met the Iros via their scout in 2110 BC, but they had nothing I wanted to trade for. Met Egypt in 1870 BC (ditto).

The Aztecs made themselves the first target when they founded a city 5 squares from my capital in 1625 BC. They somewhat redeemed themselves by sending an archer to clean up any barbarian messes that might have popped up to my east. I did lose one settler on the west peninsula when a hut spawned at just the wrong time.

I kicked off the golden age in 630 BC with a little stack of 6 immortals on that neighboring Aztec city. The Aztecs really didn't deal well with immortals, not surprisingly, and they were completely destroyed in 310 BC as I captured two of their cities and razed a couple others. With momentum on my side (and a strong desire for luxuries), the Iroquois met with the unfortunate end of a stack of immortals. I razed Salamanca (replacing it shortly thereafter) but kept most of the other Iroquois cities. Peace in 90 AD left them with just two cities hugging the silks in the jungle. In 10 BC I got my first leader; he formed an immortal army that later managed to lose to a spear on a hill. However, that did let me work in a fairly early Heroic Epic, which was nice.

I kept expecting the AI to do some research for me. The Germans built the Pyramids and the Great Wall, and it appeared that maybe there would be some useful tech advances going on over there. I was sadly mistaken. When I finally made contact with the Germans and others, the Great Library yielded all of two techs. Currency came from the Great Library in 400 AD, and that kicked me into the middle ages. On the plus side, I'd saved up 2300 gold by not researching for 600 years or so...

Had very nice leader luck early: a second came in 260 AD against the Egyptians (who had a choice of removing a sword-settler pair from my territory or declaring war--they chose the latter), another from a defending immortal in 300 AD, and a third in 320 AD. The first of these made another army as the original one died; the second rushed the FP near the former Iroquois capital. The third went home and waited for a little while for a wonder to rush. The Egyptian war was fairly short; I took the major source of gems, and not a lot else. I was mostly waiting for the Iroquois peace deal to expire.

Meanwhile, back on the home front, Perseopolis was cruising along nicely with culture (I think):

3950 BC: Palace
2430 BC: Temple
1625 BC: Colossus
1000 BC: Oracle
470 BC: Great Library
430 BC: Library
130 BC: Hanging Gardens
280 AD: Heroic Epic
400 AD: Colosseum

I got Monotheism as my free tech in the middle ages.

 

[Scratcher]

Open, victory type not known, but for sure not cultural.

Settled in place and set research to pottery at max. The build order was warrior, warrior and then granary. I didn’t chop the forest and I didn’t build a third warrior for MP so research was hampered by happiness issues.

3400bc Pottery completed, research alphabet at max.
3350bc Aztecs contacted. I trade masonry, pottery and bronze working for ceremonial burial, warrior code and 10G.
2800bc Iroquois contacted but no trades.
2670bc Found Pasargadae at RCP3.
2430bc Found Susa
2310bc Egypt contacted but no trades.
2390bc Alphabet completed, research writing at max.
2190bc Found Arbela
1870bc Found Antioch. I trade alphabet to the Iroquois for the wheel and 35G
1830bc Found Tarsus
1725bc Writing completed, research code of laws at 80%
1625bc Found Gordium
1600bc I trade writing to the Aztecs for mysticism and 43G, to the Iroquois for iron working and 1G and to the Egyptians for 16G.
1525bc Found Bactra
1450bc Found Sidon
1375bc Code of laws completed, research set to philosophy.
1275bc Found Sardin and Tyre
1200bc Philosophy completed and research set to republic
1150bc Found Samara and Hamadan
1075bc I trade code of laws to the Iroquois for horse back riding, to the Egyptians for25G and to the Aztecs for 25G.

1000bc QSC stats: 13 cities, pop 25, 101 tiles, Republic due in 14 turns. I have 2 granaries, 6 barracks, 2 settlers, 6 workers, 4 warriors, 16 archers. Map making is known by the Iroquois who do not want to trade. No luxuries connected.

975bc Wines connected.
825bc I declare war on the Aztecs and trade philosophy to the Iroquois for map making
710bc Republic completed, research set to literature. Switch govs and get 3 turns of Anarchy
690bc I trade republic to the Iroquois for mathematics, world map and 25G
650bc Persia becomes a republic.
630bc Peace is agreed with the Aztecs for a couple of cities reducing them to a one city state.
590bc I again declare war on the Aztecs.
570bc Literature completed, research Polytheism
550bc Teotihuacan captured and the Aztecs are destroyed.
470bc I declare war on the Iroquois. Polytheism completed, research currency.
350bc A suicide galley finds the Vikings but sinks before contact can be made. Currency completed, research construction.
330bc Peace agreed with the Iroquois for construction, I enter the Middle Ages and I get engineering as the free tech. Research set to feudalism @ 50% 10 turns.

I was unlucky with my suicide galleys not to get contacts with the other continent and possibly get more free MA techs. I also had numerous elite victories but no MGL for a forbidden palace. A conquest or domination victory has not been discarded but I will probably go for a Diplo or space finish.

 

[axehaxe]

Originally Posted by Nata

Woo-hoo, my first ever AAC (Ancient Age Conquest) victory in 740AD!
Whew. I really got tired moving all those Immortals around.
We stayed strictly in AA but some AIs got to Feudalism. Didn't help them much, hee. GLH helped us a lot.
I'll post details later.

Whoa! Congrats. Now my question is how in the world did you get your immortals as far as germany???? Wouldn't your galleys sink???? You're in the AA and I didn't know that was even possible...

Maybe...just a thought...maybe that's why I've never been able to use the Dutch successfully on Arch Deity games.


Right now I have just about the entire continent to myself after taking out most of Egypt and dusting off the Iroqouis. I beelined straight for immortals...

Predator class going for domination or space race

 

[EvilConqueror]

Settled in place.

My first warrior found the Iroquois and my second warrior found the Aztecs. Found the Egyptians shortly afterward.

The Aztecs seemed like a good first target and I took them out pretty quickly. Then, I went after the Iroquois but the Egyptians decided to attack me as well since they had a good number of settlers but no place to put them. I was able to hold off the Egyptians (and get a ton of free workers) with a small defensive force while I pounded the Iroquois to near oblivion.

I got Feudalism as my free tech. The Iroquois were nearly eliminated and I was massing forces to go after the Egyptians. I was also trying to find the other civs with no luck.

 

[Nata]

Whoa! Congrats.

Thanks!

Now my question is how in the world did you get your immortals as far as germany???? Wouldn't your galleys sink???? You're in the AA and I didn't know that was even possible...

GLH is your friend. I got mine in 950BC.
And another thing which is handy for an early conquest: RoP rape. I completely forgot about it as I don't usually play military games. Could have finished 400-500 years earlier if used it from the beginning.

For example, I spent about 10 turns assembling/moving a stack of 20+ Immortals towards Great Wall in Moscow. It suffered all kinds of attacks and only 8 reached Moscow walls, some injured. Miraculously it was enough to take the city, my last 2/5 Immortal taking out the last 1/4 Spear. With Rop Rape those Immortals could've reached Moscow and couple of surrounding cities with comfort and in just about 2 turns. Etc. etc. I only Rop-raped Vikings at the very end, after getting frustrated with the game being dragged out for so long.

OK. Here are some details on the game opening.

4000BC. Settler W as per pre-game discussion, Worker South on the way to Wheat. Woo-hoo, we see a Cow!

3950BC. Persepolis founded. Worker irr & road Wheat. Building Warrior->Settler. Research Alpha(hoping to trade for Pottery).
3200BC. Meet Aztecs. Get WC+10g for Masonry.
3050BC. Pasagardae founded at RCP4, on the cape below the Cow.
2630BC. Learn Alpha. Start Pottery, be there in 6 turns (Darn! Still haven't met anybody with Pottery!)
2590BC. Susa founded RCP4 East on the coast, among BGs. It immediately starts GLH prebuild.

2550BC. Meet Iro Scout, and they have Pottery while we still have 2 turns to go! Get Pot+CB+10g for Masonry from them, start Writing.

2230BC. Granary in Persepolis.

2070BC. Meet Egypt. They have nothing.

1700BC. Got IW and Wheel for Alpha.
1675BC. Learn Writing. Start MM. Chat with Iro, Aztecs and Egypt - no more contacts on this continent.

1000BC. 12 cities, 34 pop. 4 workers, 5 warriors, 5 Immortals, 1 archer, 3 galleys.
1 Granary, 3 barracks. 4 turns till GLH. 3 contacts and full map of our continent.
Researching Poly->Monarchy as all three AIs got Mysticism at the same time (dumbos!)

850BC. War with Actecs. GA.
825BC. Contact with English. Get their WM for HBR.
610BC. Contact with Germany. Trade English contact (biiig mistake), Writing & Math for contacts with Vikings and Russians.

590BC. Aztecs gone.
560BC. Woo-hoo, Salamanca builds Pyramids! Iroquese, here we come! Dow Egypt as well to kill some stray settlers.
530BC. Monarchy researched. Research stopped till the end of the game.
430BC. GL Darius in war with Egypt!
Which I completely blew. I was going to use him for FP in a good place, but couldn't decide on the good place.
I thought it would be great to capture, say, Berlin and vicinities and make FP and 2nd core there. Again, if I thought of RoP rape I could've accomplished it, instead my 1st attack only scratched German borders and I kept razing their cities being afraid they would flip, and then it dragged on, with Darius sitting uselessly near German border in a Galley on a Sea square.
I should have used him for a 2nd core in Egypt instead... Which I eventually did in 280AD. But that's a tale for the Final spoiler.

To finish on a merrier note, in 310BC we both became a Monarchy and destroyed Iroquese.

 

[TxCraig]

Open, 20k. Going with RCP4 & RCP8. I am used to Regent and Religious, so managing happiness is more of an issue, as is the timing of revolutions.

Comments appreciated, either on or off list.

4000 BC Settled in place. Researching Pottery and then on to Literature.
3850 Aha! cattle!
3250 Researched Pottery. Starting on Alphabet.
2550 Founded Pasargadae 4 to the south. Build order: warrior-granary-settler
2390 Here come the barbs.
2350 Founded Susa 4 to the west. Build order: warrior-warrior-worker-warrior-granary
2290 (approx) Researched Alphabet.
1990 Founded Arbela 4 to the east. Build order: warrior-warrior-spearman-granary
1870 Here come more barbs.
1725 Contact with the Aztecs.
Traded Masonry for CB + 10 gp.
1700 Nubians ambushed us but we kicked their butts.
1625 Dispersed the Nubian encampment.
1550 Aha! wine!
1525 Researched Writing.
1450 Founded Antioch 8 to the WNW, by the Aztecs. Build order: library-walls-spearman
1275 Founded Tarsus 5 to the SW. Build order: library-spearman
1200 Founded Gordium on the isthmus to the NNE, distance 11. Build order: library-spearman
Founded Bactra 15 to the north, by the two grassland wheat & Iroquois. Build order: library-walls-courthouse
1175 Traded Alphabet for Mysticism + Wheel + 20 gp from Iroquois.
1100 Researched Literature.
1075 Founded Sidon 8 to the NE, on the coast.
1000 Connected the wine. GL is 13 turns away.
800 Traded Writing + 4 gp for Contact with Egypt from Aztecs.
775 Cleopatra wants to strong-arm me for Writing. I say no way.
710 Egypt completed the Colossus.
690 Persepolis completed the Pyramids; starts GL.
370 England completed GLH.
230 Persepolis completed Great Library; triggers a Golden Age.
210 Persepolis completed a Library.
Learned Iron Working, Philosophy, Map Making, Horseback Riding.
130 Researched Mathematics.
90 Declared war on Aztecs.
AD 90 Researched Currency. Entered MA. Got Monotheism.

QSC 1000 BC stats:
9 cities, 25 pop, 9 warriors, 4 spearmen, 8 workers, 4 granaries, 1 temple, 95 gp. GL under construction. Currently doing Lone Scientist on Polytheism.

Capital city build order:
Warrior - Warrior - Granary (whipped 1) - Settler - Warrior - Settler - Spearman - Settler - Worker - Warrior - Spearman - Temple - Settler - Pyramids - Great Library - Library - Spearman - Spearman - Spearman - Catapult - Catapult - Catapult - Colosseum - Middle Ages

Mistakes (I'm sure there are more, these are the ones I can see):
I was maybe too worried about the barbs because of the previous GOTM.
Did not build Temple soon enough. Did not build Colosseum soon enough.

Now that the GL triggered a GA, I plan to whale on the Aztecs with my immortals just because I can , and I plan to go after the Iroquois just to knock them back a bit, because they tend to be a strong civ.

 

[krakedhalo]

Open, going for something military. Haven't played with Immortals in a long time, so I want to see what I can do with them.

Settle in place, production is warrior> warrior> granary(with barracks prebuild)> worker> 6 turn settler/warrior factory. RCP3, doing it correctly for the first time and am impressed with the results so far, though on a more open map I'd space it out more.

Meet Aztecs in 3150. Swap Masonry and Pottery for WC, CB, 10g. I'm still up BW on them, and up Masonry on Iros when I meet them 5 turns later. Meet Egypt in 2270, up a lot in tech on them.

I declared against the Aztecs in 1025, they only had 4 or 5 cities. They lasted until 690 only because I parked an immortal army for a few turns waiting for borders to pop so I wouldn't autoraze.

QSC stats: QSC 26 pop, 13 cities, 4 workers, 21 warriors, 6 immortals, all 1st level techs, IW, Writing, Mysticism, HBR, MM in 23, 101g

Declare on Iros turn after I take out Aztecs. The first two Immortals in take Salamanca, cutting the Iro population in half in one go. I felt they treated me poorly in the last COTM, so they had to go. Took or destroyed two or three more towns quickly, then ran out of troops in the vicinity so I took 3 size 1 towns for peace, including two on the East coast. Iros were down to 3 size 1 towns in 550bc.

My notes got deleted after this (stinkin' notepad!) but I contacted Russia in 390bc, having just completed the GLH. They had Poly and Construction, I had Currency, Philo, CoL. Ended that turn with all techs, all WM, all contacts but England, which I found 2-3 turns later, and in MA. Got Mono (I think). Did not gift up anyone, as I want to keep tech pace slower.

 

[Nata]

Comments appreciated, either on or off list.

OK, I'll comment. I love 20K, that's my favorite VC because to play it you have to excel in all VCs at once, and with initial handicap of pouring everything into one city.
I.e. it's crucial to have fast research on 20K, to never run out of Wonders to build and to achieve Factories/RR faster. Therefore fast expansion/big empire is essential, especially on low game level as you can't rely on AIs for research. It's very important to have strong military as well and fight good wars to get GLs.
So it's never enough just to develop 20K city, everything has to be top notch.

4000 BC Settled in place.

That's a questionable thing to do if you are playing 20K. Why not move 1 tile to the coast? You are missing on 3 wonders by settling in place, and not having a Colossus when you can is a big loss. Colossus is a cheap early Wonder which is easy to get.
GLH is easy to get too, as AIs rarely have productive coastal cities early in the game. In addition, GLH is also extremely useful on this Continents map. You'd get early contacts => money and faster research.
Actually, if you moved Worker S on a mountain and saw the Cow and the other Coast, you could've considered moving 2 tiles West instead, in that way you'd grab a Cow too. And the productive tiles in that place are about the same.
If you get at least 12 land tiles for the coastal 20K location, just go for it.

Other things: Pyramids is not an efficient Wonder to build for 20K. Too many shields for too little culture. Time would be better spent building Oracle, for example. Or Colossus of course.
Also - researching with a lone Scientist doesn't look good for 20K, as fast research is crucial. Empire should be big enough by that time to do Poly in less than 40 turns.
Also, Spearmen are usually waste of shields, especially here as we have Immortals! Towns should be building Immortals or Warriors to upgrade to Immortals. Spearmen are useless, as no one is going to attack your cities if you wipe AIs out first with your Immortals. And it's better to send Immortals to fight Barbs too, as they might become Elite. Then send them fight AIs.

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator class
Going for a Diplomatic victory

A wonderful race are the Persians,
They have such peculiar diversions.
They make love all day
In the usual way,
And save up the nights for perversions.​

In the beginning, when they were still a wandering folk, the
Persians sent their entire labour force south up Mount
Damavand to have a look around. It was decided, that a city
should be founded in the west, where Cattle had been spotted
roaming close to the Wheaten fields of Khusestan. Wise men
predicted, that a new City and a troop of Warriors could be
spawned every 160 years from this Capital, once a Granary
had been constructed.

The Workers were told to wander onto the Wheat and there
build a road and channels for irrigation. Their next task
would be to build a road across the mineral-rich Grasslands
and then roads and irrigation where the Cattle roamed.

The Granary was completed in 2850 BC after two groups of
Warriors had first been sent off to reconnoitre and the
knowledge of Pottery had been discovered.

3950 BC Found Persepolis
2590 BC Found Pasargadae
2430 BC Found Susa
2230 BC Found Arbela
2150 BC Found Antioch
1950 BC Found Tarsus​

Pasargadae was founded to the south-west in order to be able
to share the rich harvests of Wheat with the Capital. Here a
second Granary was constructed, partly with hard methods
which caused the population in the city to shrink, and then
ever Workers.

Susa on the southern coast was soon put to the task of
completing a Great Wonder, a colossal statue of bronze which
would greatly increase the commercial and scientific output
of the city.

Arbela and Antioch to the north-west and north were military
cities with a Barracks, whereas the sixth city, Tarsus, from
its very beginning prepared to become a governmental centre
with a Forbidden Palace.

These five cities were all located at a distance of three
tiles from the capital.

The next cities were located far away from the Capital, for
Holy Men had decided, that no new city may be placed closer
than five tiles away from the planned Forbidden Palace in
Tarsus. Five tiles was an important distance for Persian
empire planners, and of the original six cities, Pasargadae
alone was further away than this from Tarsus. In the future,
it was said, a new Capital would be founded in a distant
land.

Bactra was placed on the isthmus to the north-east
where wild Wine grew, and thus it could be brought to the
Persian Capital and make its people happy and a little
tipsy.

1650 BC Found Gordium
1650 BC Found Bactra
1500 BC Found Sidon
1425 BC Found Tyre
1350 BC Found Sardis
1300 BC Connect Wines
1250 BC Found Samaria
1175 BC Found Hamadan
1050 BC Found Ergili
1025 BC Connect Iron
0530 BC Found Dariush Kabir
0450 BC Found Ghulaman
0430 BC Found Zohak​

The two scouting Warriors soon found other tribes living not
far away.

3050 BC Meet Aztecs
2850 BC Meet Iroquois
2390 BC Meet Egypt​

While the Persians were intent on learning how to rule
themselves better, they were able to learn many other useful
secrets from their neighbours. By the time they discovered
Currency and Engineering and thus entered the Middle Ages,
they had already met two other Scientific tribes, which
contributed the knowledge of Feudalism. The Persians were
left to themselves to research Monotheism, which they
thought they would need to be able to increase their
scientific prowess in the future.

4000 BC Discover Bronze Working
3350 BC Discover Pottery
2270 BC Learn Warrior Code
2270 BC Learn Masonry
2270 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
2270 BC Discover Alphabet
1725 BC Learn The Wheel
1725 BC Learn Iron Working
1725 BC Discover Writing
1500 BC Learn Mysticism
1425 BC Discover Literature
1200 BC Discover Code of Laws
1125 BC Learn Horseback Riding
1100 BC Learn Map Making
1100 BC Discover Philosophy
0730 BC Learn Polytheism
0730 BC Discover The Republic
0570 BC Discover Mathematics
0490 BC Discover Construction
0410 BC Discover Currency
0410 BC Discover Engineering
0410 BC Learn Feudalism​

Persian historians set these dates on some important
occurrences in the development of the Persian
empire:

950 BC Build Forbidden Palace in Tarsus
750 BC Build The Colossus in Susa
730 BC Establish Anarchy 5
630 BC Establish Republic
630 BC Embassy Aztecs
630 BC Embassy Iroquois: The Pyramids in 4
630 BC War Aztecs
630 BC Alliance Iroquois vs. Aztecs
570 BC Enter Golden Age
470 BC Meet three other tribes
450 BC Capture Tenochtitlan with The Oracle
430 BC Embassy Egypt
410 BC Enter Middle Ages​

It was also said, that in the mystical year 1000 BC, the
Persian empire already boasted:

1 City and 13 Towns
42 Citizens
3 Contacts
14 Workers
16 Warriors
2 Immortals
All first and most second and third tier Technologies
3 Granaries
3 Libraries
2 Barracks
An almost (1 turn) completed Forbidden Palace​

 

[eldar]

Predator, going for... whatever.

Settled in place, with a vague RCP4 around the capital and gave up thereafter.

Quickly met Aztecs and Iros, Egypt later on.

By 1000BC it was clear I was boxed in by Monty & Hiawatha, so bit the bullet took a despo GA and attacked them both. I had cleared them both out by ~300BC, still not in the MA.

Entered the MA in 150BC as a Republic, at war with Egypt, stopped building more units (the dozen or so Immortals converging on Egypt are enough) - concentrating on Settlers in the periphery, Markets+Libs in the core.

Not had MM long enough to send out Galleys to find anyone.

Incidentally I find it disappointing that there is discussion in these spoilers about overseas AIs, and indeed their identity; that discussion doesn't appear to fit the description of "discreet" mentioned in the OP.

I've only just hit the MA and have yet to complete my game, and whilst I used F10 to discover the identities of all my opponents, not everyone knows this trick.

 

[Chamnix]

Predator, going for space.

I started out with worker to the west and didn’t see anything to change my mind about settling in place. Persepolis built 1 warrior, 1 settler, and 1 worker before the granary. Next up was a barracks followed by 30 shields of military and a worker every 4 turns – it started as 3 warriors for maximum MP/exploration, but moved on to archers for barb farming. Pasargadae was founded where it could work both cow and wheat and started on an immediate granary followed by 1 warrior, then 4-turn settlers. Other cities generally built barracks first – they were too slow growing for workers or settlers, and I had all the MPs and explorers I could use. My towns ended up at RCP 4 and 8 (Pyrrhos would be so proud of me ) – I didn’t intend to space cities that wide, but that is what seemed to work best with the terrain.

I purchased 2 slaves from the Aztecs for gpt in 2150 BC, so my tiles were improved faster than my towns could grow. I PTW industrious workers! My treasury was in constant trouble after that, so I kept borrowing 17 gold from the Aztecs for 1 gpt to stay solvent.

Research started as Pottery, Alphabet, and Writing. When I completed Writing in 1650 BC, I traded for contact with Egypt, Iron Working, The Wheel, Masonry, and a bunch of gold. Embassies with Egypt and Aztecs showed that they were at war already. I renegotiated peace with the Aztecs and promised to help in the war against Egypt for 52 gold and 11 gpt solving my gold problems. I continued borrowing gold from the Aztecs at every opportunity assuming they would break our deal eventually.

I waited too long to secure the northern chokepoint, and the Iroquois settler the wines first, but there was no way they could keep them.

The Aztecs broke our deal and declared war in 1225 BC. I sign peace with the Egyptians provided that they return to fighting the Aztecs. I marched a stack of 5 archers right up to Tenochtitlan… and saw the musket. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. The archer stack marched right back home until it could return a few turns later as a stack of 9 archers. My fifth archer captured the city.

QSC:

11 cities
32 citizens
2 settlers
12 workers
2 slaves
8 warriors
10 archers
1 spearman
1 immortal



In 925 BC, the Egyptians broke our deal and declared.

By 670 BC, the Aztecs were down to 1 city where they would stay for almost the entire remainder of the game – I kept them around for future war happiness.

In 590 BC, I completed Republic – 6 turns of anarchy initially but rerolled for 4. Renegotiate peace with the Iroquois with alliance vs. Egypt – give up Republic, gain Mathematics and start Currency. In 510 BC my Golden Age started with an immortal victory.

In 490 BC, I made my first overseas contact and bought several other contacts and World Maps. I wasted no time in declaring war on some overseas tribes with alliances/peace treaties with others.

In 370 BC, I entered the Middle Ages.

 

[Lanzelot]

I have never done 20K before, but wanted to try it for quite some time. My earlier attempts (in particular COTM49...) failed bitterly, but this time everything seemed perfect.

Settled in place and Persepolis first build 2 warriors (if I remember correctly) and then an early settler for my 20K town. Pasargadae was founded in 3050BC 1W-1SW of Persepolis and immediately started working on a Temple. DWetzel and TxCraig both used their capital as the 20K town, so it'll be interesting to compare these two different approaches. I have lost 19turns at the start (or 17, if you substract two turns for wandering the first settler to the perfect location on the coast), but I have already two or three times taken advantage of the ability to use the Palace Prebuilt. My capital was then free to build settlers and warriors, while Pasargadae concentrated almost exclusively on cultural buildings (except for a Marketplace, which I thought would be beneficial).

Whenever there would be a shield overrun or just a few food points missing for the next growth, I switched the irrigated wheat from the capital to the 20K city. I also added an occasional worker to Pasargadae, so that it reached size 12 quite quickly (don't remember the exact date).

As in PTW Monarchy is much easier to get than Republic, I thought it would be a good idea to go for that and on the way pick up the Oracle and the Hanging Gardens. But there was one major mishap: about 5 turns before I completed the Hanging Gardens, the AI finished their first Great Wonder: the Pyramids where finished in Moscow. That alone didn't matter much, as I wasn't interested in the Pyramids anyway. But unfortunately in the same interturn the Iroquois then switched their Pyramids to the Hanging Gardens and finished it right away! Fortunately I was able to switch to the Forbidden Palace, which lost only about 80 shields. But having the Forbidden Palace just two squares away from the capital is probably not the most efficient way to use it... Perhaps I should have jumped my Palace somewhere else, but up to now didn't do it yet.

Other than that everything went smoothly. Haven't lost a single Great Wonder since then (currently in the middle of the MA). Here's the build order for the AA:

2390BC Temple
1625BC Colossus
1075BC Oracle
_670BC Forbidden Palace
_270BC Great Library
_250BC Library
__70BC Great Lighthouse
__10BC Colosseum
_150AD Great Wall

Entered the Middle Ages somewhere around 300 and got Monotheism, which was nice as I was able to build a Cathedral right away and enter the path to the "culture-rich" upper half of the tech tree.

Nata: you said that fast research is crucial in a 20K game, but I have a slightly different opinion: you only need to make sure to have something to build before your Prebuild finishes, but other than that you should not make the tech pace too fast, because this increases the risk of loosing a Great Wonder to the AI, especially on the higher levels like Monarch/Emperor. (On Demigod and above there isn't much of a chance of slowing down the extreme tech pace of the AI anyway, and I guess that's one of the reasons, why it's so hard to achieve 20K on those levels.) What do you think?

Meanwhile I had also done a bit of conquering, like the rest of the crowd here and build quite a few of those cheap libraries, so that a 100K might be possible as well. Therefore a general question: if I time the culture output in such a way that I reach 20K and 100K in the same turn, will I be eligible to compete in both categories?!

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

Lanzelot,

I'll be following your game closely! I'll be interested to see how the different setup works out. (I considered that approach as well but the 2nd city was just too sweet for a settler factory, I thought.)

PS: Better to add two workers to a city rather that 1 settler. Less shields.

 

[Lanzelot]

PS: Better to add two workers to a city rather that 1 settler. Less shields.

Oops, did I say settler?! I meant worker of course. I've corrected it in my original post. A settler is of course much too valuable to add to a town!

And a second correction to my original post: I just realized that I didn't build the granary in the AA yet. I built it much much later in the IA, when I had to wait two turns for the next tech advance and didn't need to start a prebuild because I had a Great Leader in stock. Rather than wasting these two turns I thought the granary might be useful when I get to Sanitation.

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[Andronicus]

20k
worker to mountain - sees cow -> settle on BG above cow and lake (coastal + on lake) 3900BC
Research -> alpha 100%
Build warrior, warrior, settler, worker, granary, then culture

Contacts
Aztecs 3300BC
Iroquois 2800BC (they have already settled Niagra Falls blocking choke)
Egypt 2300BC

Towns
Persepolis 3900BC
Parsagardae 2950BC (RCP5 to east by game) - after granary became worker, then settler factory
Susa 1300BC (RCP5 to NE)
Arbela 1175BC (RCP5 to W)
Antioch 1100BC (RCP5 to N)
then Tarsus 975BC (S of wines), Gordium 875BC, Bactra 775Bc, Sidon 670BC all RCP10 in the east
The final RCP5 town was delayed by Aztecs settling by the iron to the west.

Techs - research at max, often at deficit so frequently buying gold with gpt. Giving AI gold seemed to help their research a fair bit. As usual I aimed to get out of despotism as fast as poss whilst encouraging AI to research other techs for me.
3300BC trade for WC & CB (Az)
2800BC trade for pots (Iro)
2670BC research alpha
1725BC research writing
1725BC trade IW and wheel (Iro)
1450BC trade myst (Egy)
1375BC research lit (dont trade) - core all build libs, delay GLib until in republic as would result in despotic GA
1225BC research philo
1125BC trade HBR (Iro)
1025BC research CoL
630BC research republic, roll 6 turn anarchy, reroll 3.
610BC trade MM (Az)
510BC research poly
510BC trade maths (Iro)
390BC research monarchy
310BC research construction (same turn as Iro - could have researched currency first, but I wanted to build coll)
230BC research currency -> free feudalism

Culture builds in Persepolis
3900BC palace
2270BC temple
1700BC Colossus
1300BC Oracle
1250BC library
750BC Pyramids
330BC Gt Library
290BC collosseum

Warfare
510BC Aztecs demand lit - I refuse, they back down
390BC dow Aztecs - they are in the way of my RCP5 expansion to the west
350BC immortal victory starts GA 3 turns before GLib would have started it anyway
Aztec towns are at RCP 6 and 11 to Persepolis so they are razed and replaced at 5 and 10. I didnt ally Iro or Egypt as I wanted as many leader opportunities as possible - infortunately it was to be a very looooong wait for any (not even in the next spoiler!)

 

[ignas]

Going for 100K culture

Settle Persepolis 1W on a bg so i could get cow and wheat in capital radius. Build order: warrior, warrior, settler, granary, 4turn settlers.

Go for max food. Irrigate wheat and cow, chop game forests ASAP and irrigate.
Pasargadae gets irrigated cow every other turn.
While high food towns work on workers and settlers, others go for barracks and archers. Preparing to conquer Iroquis.

Decide for RCP at distance 3 around palace and at 3 and 5 around Forbidden Palace (FP was finished in 1200BC in Susa). Planning to jump palace to Salamanca (planning for RCP at 5 and 7)

Research was pottery, alpha, writing, CoL, philo and Republic which was learned in 925 BC and revolt for a 8 turn anarchy. Gift immediatelly Republic to Iroquese so they couldn't poprush units.

QSC:
16 towns (2 towns extorted from AI's)
40 pop
12 workers and a slave
2 settlers
7 vet archers and few warriors
3 poprushed galleys
4 barracks and a granary

Declare war on Iroquois in 775BC. War goes well, capture 3 towns and get 2 for peace in 430 BC.
Persepolis is abandoned in 570 BC and Salamanca becomes a new capital. Economy improves nicely.

Finally in 550BC suicide galley suceeds and we have all contacts and a world map.

After becoming Republic research Lit, Currency, Construction (trade for other techs) and enter MA in 430 BC.

Plan is to get Education ASAP, stop research and rush culture with gold.