GOTM9 * Spoiler* Talks

[noughmaster]

Do you think 3600 points in 1899 AD is a good score or is it better
to play again?

It's a pretty good score. I finished with about 3600 points in 1870.
Your GOTM score will be around 200. If you play again, of course everyone will know.

An observation on the new scoring system:
My GOTM score will be about 240.
I played the game again just for fun, trying to conquer the world, which I managed in 25BC. I'm sure several people can beat this.
My civ score was 85, translating to a GOTM score of 185. This is because of the 25 points for barbarians. Without it, the GOTM score would have been 155.

Under the old system, the scores would have been 72 for the SS game and 8 for the conquest. If we play with raging hordes (which I think adds to the game), an early conquest is not such a bad option under the new scoring system. In fact, everyone starts with a GOTM score of 250.

 

[noughmaster]

Re: the growth rate of 1.88% discussed by MuuMuu and others:
There was quite a bit of discussion on this in scoring cap poll if you're interested.

 

[Muumuu]

Originally posted by noughmaster
Re: the growth rate of 1.88% discussed by MuuMuu and others:
There was quite a bit of discussion on this in scoring cap poll if you're interested.

Ok, thank you. I see now that there has been a thorough discussion about the scoring system only recently. And the system decided is quite reasonable so I don't suggest changing it.

But as I had thought about a different system, I might as well post it here for the mathematically curious to study...

G = N ^ (M/T)

Examples:
1. G of a game ending 1750 with score of 1354: 1354^(420/200) = 3770502
2. G of a game ending 1950 with score of 9999: 9999^(420/350) = 63088

This formula does not assume any specific growth rate, but instead extrapolates the player's achieved growth rate (from the start of a game) to the last turn. It would thus reward ending a game when you have maximized your growth rate so far.

In practice this would strongly shift the balance to early finishes from the presently favored perfectionist grow-until-the-end strategy.

But, as I said, I don't suggest changing a system that has been only recently agreed to. Any comments are appreciated though.

 

[Marik2000]

I think u need to rethink u idea's on that with now adays rules

SQRL(N)*50^((max-turns)/turns)

this fomula is highy in favour of early finishes!

the SQRL(N) term in the formula realy says it all... in the beginning it is very easy to gain some multiply factors but this will get very difficult to gain multiply factors in time.... it depends squared soo to give a example

number of points multiplayfactor SQRL(N)
1 1
4 2
9 3
16 4
25 5
36 6
49 7
64 8
81 9
100 10
121 11
144 12
169 13

my conclusion is that this term is highly infavour of early finishes due that get a multiply factor 6 or 7 is rather simple but getting higher multiply factors will get more difficult everytime is very hard! this is the only factor what does something with the Civ score... let say u can maximum have a civ score something like 6K point, this will result in a multiplyfactor of 77... (don't even know this is posible with this map)

as we look to the second tem 50^((max-turn)/turn) in the next table; there r 470 turns in total, soo max is 470.

turn multiply factor
1 2.4159170397925E+205
25 2687891798.94418
50 222353.337384993
100 2022.36521800337
150 422.148158436263
200 192.871276534849
300 88.1191320364329
400 59.5623108306179

if u compare these numbers with the previous tabel. u can concluse that the civ score really doesn't matter that much... as long as u finish early.. and early is somewhere between before 1500 AD... really that is not soo early on a small map

so lets go on making some more caculations...

let say I finish my game 1500 AD that is turn 200 with some thing like 500 points... (u should manage this or more in 5500 years I think)

so the GOTM score will be SQRL (500) * 192= this about 4293 score...

okee another example... lets say we will finish in 300 turns (1850 AD) and we made a nice democracy with loads of people.... lets say u will have 6 K points

so the GOTM score will be SQRL(6000) * 88= 77* 88= 6776 points!!!!!!

another one.... I know what the formula does... and I know what I need too doo.,.. I need to finish early nomatter what.. .lets say I will end the game at 0AD (turn 100) with only 25 civ2 points.... lets make the calulation

SQRL(25)*2022= 10110 GOTM points... that is rather a lot of points u will get just by playing CIV2 the war game!!!!

soo lets predict the end result of this GOTM... some guy with soem math knowledge will will have studied this formula... and see one option.. what ever happens.... early finish... and if u play the conquer game intelligent by using diplomats to get the barbarians horses... u will probably over come all the AI well before 0AD with a score well above 10K GOTM points

the only other option is by playing the science game and win early with loads of points... I think before 1000AD... but I don't think this is possible due all those barbarians... without reloading the game! I think the expand stratigy is too difficult too do... having to build a defence unit( defence unit= is no warior)... settlers and caravan.. to get u sciences/defence going

so my money will be on a quick conquer finish well before 0AD

 

[Muumuu]

Originally posted by Marik2000
I think u need to rethink u idea's on that with now adays rules

SQRL(N)*50^((max-turns)/turns)

this fomula is highy in favour of early finishes!
...
let say I finish my game 1500 AD that is turn 200 with some thing like 500 points... (u should manage this or more in 5500 years I think)

so the GOTM score will be SQRL (500) * 192= this about 4293 score...

okee another example... lets say we will finish in 300 turns (1850 AD) and we made a nice democracy with loads of people.... lets say u will have 6 K points

so the GOTM score will be SQRL(6000) * 88= 77* 88= 6776 points!!!!!!

another one.... I know what the formula does... and I know what I need too doo.,.. I need to finish early nomatter what.. .lets say I will end the game at 0AD (turn 100) with only 25 civ2 points.... lets make the calulation

SQRL(25)*2022= 10110 GOTM points... that is rather a lot of points u will get just by playing CIV2 the war game!!!!
...
so my money will be on a quick conquer finish well before 0AD

I don't know how you got those scores, but they are just not calculated according to the the official GOTM scoring formula. Maybe you should use Matrix's Excel calculator.

Using your figures here are the correct scores:
1. Turn 1500 with 500 points gives GOTM 219.
2. Turn 1850 with 6000 points gives GOTM 377.
3. Turn 0 with 25 points gives GOTM 98.5.

(emperor difficulty and small map as per GOTM#9)

So, clearly even with your figures you can get the best score by playing and growing until the end.

You can also come to this conclusion by simply checking the save-files of previous GOTM winners. Have the early conquerors beaten the until-the-end growers? Clearly not.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread the GOTM scoring formula assumes a growth rate of 1.88% per turn. Growing faster improves your score.

In my opinion, this assumed growth rate is too low, and favors playing and growing until the end too much, and also makes winning the GOTM with an early conquest impossible.

But maybe this is what we want. Obviously, there is no correct answer to the question of which formula should be used for GOTM scoring.

 

[LeSphinx]

A lot of talks are been done in various topic review...
I think a summary will be appropriate about the way of the scoring will be done for GOTM9 and so on.

One or two exemple will be great.
The aim is to see the scoring for 2 kind of play:
- soon military conquest
- democracy with lot of peole happy with SS


LeSphinx

 

[LeSphinx]

Sorry, I forget something.

Pehaps, it will be interesting to put in the GOTM presentation that can of thing are available:
- food caravan ?
- Airbase
- ...


It was writing down in previous topic but It's good it apperead in the GOTM main page or subs pages.


LeSphinx

 

[ferenginar]

It was not my intention in any way to question the relative merits of the scoring mechanism, nor is my game suuficiently developed to benefit from the mechanism by adjusting my strategy.

At around 1950 I became convinced that although I could complete a spaceship I could not guarantee that it would be the first to arrive. The circumstances of the game dictated a change in stagegy. I set about the destruction of the Viking and Carthaginian civilisations (sorry for the Carthagian miss-spelling in previous posts). In order to continue my battle plans it became necessary to switch Governments to Fundy as each turn the demo signed a peace treaty and the Carthaginians had ceased their sneak attacks, obviously realising their goose was cooked.

Only having effectively won the game did I consider what future actions might have on the score. If I had worried about the score earlier then i would probably not have won the game.

This was the first time I have attempted emperor, so I was pleased to win, and am not really concerned what civ score or GOTM score I get or how that places me in the rankings. I play the game for fun anything else is just icing on the cake.

Have fun

Ferenginar

 

[Marik2000]

in the rules of GOTM

the rules say that the formula is
score= SQRL(N)*50^((max-t)/t)

in the excell sheet this formula is used;
score= N*50^((max-t)/t)/200

this is a formula highly in favour in a long game....

what formula will be used for this GOTM??????

 

[noughmaster]

Only having effectively won the game did I consider what future actions might have on the score. If I had worried about the score earlier then i would probably not have won the game.

I think the most important thing is to win the game, even if it lowers your population. I had a bad, but very unlucky, start in GOTM6. It took me until 1977 to land the SS after I had fought a nuclear war. I got a low score, but I felt this was OK because I still won.

Re: discussions on early finish vs growing and SS.
Most good players should be able to achieve a long term growth rate of > 2%, so growing and SS will get you a better score. One possibility is to manage the conquest so your score grows a bit before you take the last city.
The longer the game goes, the harder it is to grow at 2%, so the new formula will relieve people who want to win a medal of some of the boring farming part.

 

[Sholto]

I'm really enjoying these GOTM's, and my modest game is improving all the time. I now have two GOTM's (8 & 9) in my personal Hall of Fame top five. (Although I lost some better results after system ptoblems earlier in the year.)

For the record, I have replayed the years between 1754 and 1820 AD. After being away for two weeks I returned to find that both autosave games and my manual save around 1820 would not allow me to open any City screens. 1754 was the last manual backup I had. Don't think it affected my game.

Another bug, this one a bonus, concenrs three cities on the peninsula west of starting point. I transformed grassland to forrest on two tiles of one these cities. Each of the improved tiles overlapped with one of the other cities.

The bug is that the improved tiles are utilised by both cities. So tile 'A' is used by Denver & Philadelphia, and tile 'B' is used by Denver and Buffalo.

At least it makes up a little for the dodgy Coastal Fortress in Cardiff in GOTM 7.

 

[Smash]

you probably find that area to be on or near the 0 meridian.In such a rare circumstance,cities on either side of the 0 line can work the same squares including specials.

 

[Sholto]

Just south of the equator. Philly is the northernmaost city, and it is the 14th tile from the top, or the 13th from the bottom.

(The map is 26 deep)

The resources are 2 and 3 tiles further south.

 

[jomey]

Well Just finished my first ever GOTM and found it very enlightening.
Logged on; sent files and went straight to the spoiler's thread (something I've resisted for 28 days).

I thought I had a great game . Romans rolled over and died early and I managed to get to Monarchy really early too (third tech). My outpost tactic worked a treat . Both Vikings and Carthaginians capitals fell to my catapults and their other cities succumbed to some good old fashion bribes. Would have finished around 400AD had those pesky Egyptians not thought of building some walls.
I've got them down to one city with 1 defender at 880AD but I just don't have the time/patience/skilled to go for democracy and some real growth. I guess I'm eternally fated to remain near the bottom.

I knew there were some good player out there but 50 cities by 1AD????Look forward to seeing how those turned out.

ps.. Wots with the MATH lesson

 

[Smash]

The 0 meridian thing only works on the vertical.The map co-ordinates start at 1 and go on to whatever size map you have.Lets say 120 long.On a round map you can cross over from square 120 to square 1.If you have land here(rare) this is where 2 cities can work the same square.One built on each side of 0.Say at 2 and 119.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

For me coord. (79,29) is being worked by cities at (0,26) and (78,32).

 

[Sholto]

Thanks, Smash, for reminding me which way is up! To think I watched "Longitude" on TV just last month.

How do I look up the co-ordinates, Duke? I think Denver must be right on the meridian, with Philly to the west sharing one tile and
Buffalo to the east the other.

 

[JayKay]

Originally posted by Sholto
Thanks, Smash, for reminding me which way is up! To think I watched "Longitude" on TV just last month.

How do I look up the co-ordinates, Duke? I think Denver must be right on the meridian, with Philly to the west sharing one tile and
Buffalo to the east the other.

Press "V" to enter the "View pieces mode" or in the "View" menu, select "View pieces mode", then in the right bar (the bar where the units appear when you are moving then and where appears the terrain name of where the cursor is) it will appear the coordinates and the terrain type of the cursor, as well as a number next to coordinates (wich is the terrain encoding - Land, Sea, Inlake - see this thread for more information about this code:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6224)
_________________________________________________

Portugal
Nation of: Magellan's (from Magellan's Expedition);
Vasco da Gama (Discoverer of the Maritime path to India);
and Pedro Álvares Cabral (Discoverer of Brazil in 1500)

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

I haven't played a single turn since that last update Too excited about civ 3 (not that there's anything wrong with that )