Great Entertainers

[Minou]

Been a long time since I posted, but today I was placing an Entertainment Complex and one thing that has always annoyed me is that Entertainment Complexes and Water Parks don't produce Great People. I also dislike the new happiness system where cities start at -1 and need a ton of amenities to get to Happy/Ecstatic.
The solution to both these problems? A new Great Person category, the Great Entertainer (I would have both districts contribute to the same pool of GP, no need to create great surfers or whatever for waterparks).

Classic Era
Aesop: This city gains +2 Amenities (3 charges)
Bragi Boddason (a skaldic poet): Creates the Great Work of Writing Ragnarsdrápa. Any city holding this GWW is automatically at Ecstatic happiness.
Lucian of Samosata (Greek satirist): All cities in your empire gain +3 Loyalty. All opponents cities within 10 tiles of the city where Lucian is activated also get -3 Loyalty.

Medieval Era
Taillevent (French chef): Truffles, Wine, and Salt each provide Amenities to 8 cities instead of 4 cities.
Stańczyk (Polish jester): Cities you control no longer suffer negative loyalty from occupation, starvation, not following your religion, or negative happiness.
Izumo no Okuni (Kabuki performer): This city gains +10 culture per turn. Three charges.

Renaissance Era
Willam Shakespeare: Instantly builds a Theater Square. All Theater Squares in your empire provide +1 Amenity.
Lorenzo de’ Medici: Cities gain +1 amenity if they control a Horse resource, and an additional +1 if they have a Stable.
Will Sommers (King Henry VIII's jester): This city gains +4 happiness. If your government is Monarchy, all cities gain +1.

Industrial Era
James Smithson: Instantly creates an Art Museum or a Archaeology Museum. All Museums in your empire provide +1 Amenity, or +2 Amenities if themed.
P.T. Barnum: Bread and Circuses projects provides all cities within 6 tiles with +2 amenities for 10 turns after completion, in addition to any loyalty benefits.
Matthew Boulton (toy/trinket manufacturer): Commercial Hubs grant +1 amenity. Markets grant an additional +1 amenity.

I ignored the Modern Era and beyond because these great people are so expensive they just make me ANGRY (because many are cool but unattainable in a normal length game).

 

[kaspergm]

Definitely seems odd no great entertainers are in the game. I would also like the entertainment to get some adjacency bonus of it’s own, if nothing else a gold yield would make sense.

 

[Socrates99]

Might steal some people from writers and musicians but I think itd be an awesome addition in VII.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Honestly I hope there are fewer types of GP next go round not more.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This is an idea that I've had as well.
I've made a similar list as well but tried to avoid as many Great people that would be considered writers and musicians as possible, instead focusing more on people such as athletes, actors etc.
Classical Era:
Thespis (founder of theater)- Ampitheaters receive +1 amenity from entertainment
Milo of Croton (Ancient Greek wrestling champion)- Any amenities from Entertainment Complexes with arenas reach to cities within six tiles.

Medieval Era:
Porphyrius (Hippodrome champion)- Horses provide +1 amenity
Geoffroi de Preulli (supposed inventor of jousting) Provides a free arena. Heavy cavalry units trained in cities with an arena gain more XP.

Renaissance:
Richard Burbage (famous stage actor of Globe Theater)- Great works of writings receive +1 amenity from entertainment.
Tenali Ramakrishna (Royal advisor and poet entertainer from India)- Doubles amenities and culture from palace.

Industrial:
Pierre de Coubertin (founder of modern Olympic Games)- Allows open borders to with civilizations with a Stadium or Aquatics Center as long as not at war. Receive extra +1 amenity from entertainment to these buildings.
George C. Tilyou (created the first amusement park)- Receive extra production towards entertainment complexes and water parks. Gain a free Ferris Wheel if in a city with a Water Park.

Modern:
Charlie Chaplin (silent film actor)- Broadcast Centers provide amenities to cities within 4 tiles.
Babe Ruth (famous baseball player)- Regional effects from Stadiums reach two tiles farther.

Atomic:
Walt Disney (good luck getting him in the game)- Entertainment Complexes and Water Parks grant tourism and gold based off of amenities.
Akira Kurosawa- All great works provide +1 amenity from entertainment.

 

[Zaarin]

Walt Disney (good luck getting him in the game)- Entertainment Complexes and Water Parks grant tourism and gold based off of amenities.
Akira Kurosawa- All great works provide +1 amenity from entertainment.

Honestly I think you have a better chance at getting Disney than Kurosawa. As long as no images are used and no references are made to copyrighted works, however, I'm not sure using his name only would be a legal issue. To my knowledge a person has a right to their likeness, but as long as it's not defamatory I think you're safe referencing their name.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Honestly I think you have a better chance at getting Disney than Kurosawa. As long as no images are used and no references are made to copyrighted works, however, I'm not sure using his name only would be a legal issue. To my knowledge a person has a right to their likeness, but as long as it's not defamatory I think you're safe referencing their name.

He is already a Great Artist in the 2010 Civ boardgame, so I assumed it would be okay without using the names of any of his films.
Also I just remembered Jim Henson is also a great person in that game, and could make a Great Entertainer as well.

But I also figured the more recent that they lived, the harder it will be for them to possibly ge tin the game due to copyright issues.

 

[Bibor]

Great entertainers! Nice idea!

I’d like great people and yields in general to have more interaction with other factions, though. Fxs did do this with some stuff, to their credit (city states etc). Im mentioning this because entertainment works are truly
International, and not only these days

Perhaps great entertainers could create great works of entertainment or some such

 

[Evie]

Honestly, I think a Great Entertainer addition would have to come with a complete rework of the great artist/musician/writer, artifacts and museum approach, since a *lot* of writers and musicians would probably deserve booted over to the Entertainer category, at which point the whole complicated systems of Great Works with all their different display slots can just give over to a system of Artifacts, which are all physical objects (no more putting Beethoven's Ninth on display), can all be put in museums, and that can in turn be expanded to have other things produce Artifacts.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Honestly, I think a Great Entertainer addition would have to come with a complete rework of the great artist/musician/writer, artifacts and museum approach, since a *lot* of writers and musicians would probably deserve booted over to the Entertainer category, at which point the whole complicated systems of Great Works with all their different display slots can just give over to a system of Artifacts, which are all physical objects (no more putting Beethoven's Ninth on display), can all be put in museums, and that can in turn be expanded to have other things produce Artifacts.

Yes on my list I tried to avoid as many as possible that would be considered Great writers and Great musicians, which kind of makes it harder searching for famous actors and athletes especially in early eras. Though this was solely based off of Civ 6.

But if we move both writers and musicians into a Great Entertainer category, while keeping Great Artists for museums, for Civ VII I think it could work.

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

No Josephine Baker (Modern) yet?

I can certainly think of some pianists and violinists who would roll in their graves at the thought of being reduced to a great work slot and a sound bite.

 

[Zaarin]

No Josephine Baker (Modern) yet?

I can certainly think of some pianists and violinists who would roll in their graves at the thought of being reduced to a great work slot and a sound bite.

They could at least use real recordings for their 15 second clips. Civ6's MIDIs kill my soul.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

When they introduced Rock Bands I was rather unimpressed, because they left out some very important Touring Entertainers from much earlier that had equal popularity and Impact in their day: the touring Entertainers of the Industrial Era like Sam Clemens, Oscar Wilde, or Jenny Lind, for instance.

But, as @Evie pointed out, there are some serious Overlaps between Great Artists or all kinds and Great Entertainers. Some of the earliest 'Entertainers' we have names for were Classical Greeks like Herodotus, Sappho, Simonides, Anacreon, etc - poets or 'writers' whose works were meant to be declaimed aloud as a performance, playwrights whose work is incomplete unless it is performed for an audience.

In fact, to introduce Great Entertainers I suggest that any playwrights or musicians in Great People would have to shift to Entertainers to be at all accurate, and among the 'Artifacts' of Great Entertainment would be some that have no Great Person associated with them at all: General Works of entertainment like Beowulf or the Chanson de Roland that were part of the stock in trade of any entertainer of their day in their societies.

Also, some structures/Buildings would be affected: where does a Great Entertainer perform? the Royal Court or its equivalent, Noble Households, public squares, theaters, concert halls, - and some wonders like the Bolshoi are, basically, both Cultural and Entertainment venues. Movie Theaters and Opera Houses are also in that category, if they were added to the game.

The game would have to draw a fine line between Culture and Entertainment - they aren't identical by any means, but they overlap in a lot of areas, so you either give some Great People 'multiple hats' or you stuff them into one category or the other by fiat - and risk the displeasure of the gaming audience, because such decisions are a potential Minefield:
Example, since I'm listening to it now - Scot Joplin's music is definitely entertaining, and he made his living as an entertainer and not a composer - does that mean his work in Civ VII should have 0 Cultural Component? Multiply that example and question by Every Great Entertainer you want to include and then as soon as you answer - Duck.

 

[Socrates99]

The overlap wouldn't be a big deal since there are engineers that give culture, merchants that give faith, etc.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The overlap wouldn't be a big deal since there are engineers that give culture, merchants that give faith, etc.

So you could also have them just be great artists, musicians, etc., and give the ent district/buildings those people points. Same end result but fewer redundant systems.

 

[Socrates99]

So you could also have them just be great artists, musicians, etc., and give the ent district/buildings those people points. Same end result but fewer redundant systems.

Sure, but I like the OP's idea of a more amenity focused version.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So you could also have them just be great artists, musicians, etc., and give the ent district/buildings those people points. Same end result but fewer redundant systems.

I don't see Great Artists or Writers, or (Classical) Musicians being drawn to cities by building arenas, zoos and stadiums though.

Sure, but I like the OP's idea of a more amenity focused version.

I agree, at least for Civ 6.
Though in Civ 7 there's no telling what they'll do. I think putting in various Writers and Musicians as Great Entertainers could work depending on the makeup of buildings in an "entertainment district" in Civ VII. If it includes some sort of theater and opera house it could work.

 

[Evie]

I don't see Great Artists or Writers, or (Classical) Musicians being drawn to cities by building arenas, zoos and stadiums though.

I mean, make about as much sense as most non-playwrights great writers (ie, pretty much everyone on the actual list of great writers except Willie S.) being drawn to cities by theaters and museums, while musicians don't exist until the radio is invented, and yet here we are.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I mean, make about as much sense as most non-playwrights great writers (ie, pretty much everyone on the actual list of great writers except Willie S.) being drawn to cities by theaters and museums, while musicians don't exist until the radio is invented, and yet here we are.

From what I've read, most of the Great Writers would be drawn to the cities by cafes, bars and brothels if anything . . .

Although seriously, the great purchasers of Art for most of history were the governments, temples and great nobles (i.e., the folks with the money), so if we wanted a more 'realistic' set of things to attract Great Artists. Writers, etc it might be Temples, Capitals (Palace), and presence of a Governor, and/or Great Merchant in a city . . .

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I mean, make about as much sense as most non-playwrights great writers (ie, pretty much everyone on the actual list of great writers except Willie S.) being drawn to cities by theaters and museums, while musicians don't exist until the radio is invented, and yet here we are.

That's definitely why I would have liked an earlier Opera House building for music, at Opera and Ballet, at least.

From what I've read, most of the Great Writers would be drawn to the cities by cafes, bars and brothels if anything . . .

Well that would sure get the ratings up and be an "entertainment" district at the same time.

Although seriously, the great purchasers of Art for most of history were the governments, temples and great nobles (i.e., the folks with the money), so if we wanted a more 'realistic' set of things to attract Great Artists. Writers, etc it might be Temples, Capitals (Palace), and presence of a Governor, and/or Great Merchant in a city . . .

Well you are still able to purchase them with faith or gold, which is probably why.