Grumpy Old Men AWP Hub

[Greebley]

Preturn: Rushed an Xbow in Frankfort

Turn 210 (800 AD)
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Incan Axeman
Maceman defeats (6.88/8): French Swordsman
Maceman defeats (6.08/8): French Spearman
Axeman defeats (3.35/5): Mongolian Swordsman
Axeman loses to: Mongolian Swordsman (2.52/6)
Maceman defeats (6.08/8): Mongolian Axeman

Rushing an XBow in Cologne (so we will still have 3 defenders after losing the axe above).
I think that is all we will need to rush to stay alive.

Turn 211 (810 AD)
Maceman defeats (6.32/8): Mongolian Swordsman

Turn 212 (820 AD)
Horse Archer defeats (4.32/6): Egyptian Archer
User comment: Going to have Mace, Horse Archer, 2 Axe, Archer, Spear on Defense.
User comment: Another Xbow and Mace Arive next turn.

Maceman defeats (5.84/8): Egyptian War Chariot
Axeman defeats (1.50/5): Egyptian War Chariot
Maceman defeats (2.96/8): Egyptian War Chariot
Crossbowman defeats (5.16/6): Egyptian War Chariot
Crossbowman defeats (3.24/6): Mongolian Keshik
Axeman defeats (4.15/5): Mongolian Swordsman
Crossbowman loses to: Mongolian Swordsman (1.32/6)
Axeman defeats (2.85/5): Mongolian Spearman

Xbow loss was bad luck...

Turn 213 (830 AD)
User comment: We finished the Colossus.
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Egyptian Archer
Maceman loses to: Mongolian Axeman (0.35/5)
Maceman defeats (5.76/8): Mongolian Swordsman

More bad luck losing the Mace. We were double the strength of the axe including all bonuses.

Turn 214 (840 AD)
Maceman defeats (5.84/8): French Axeman
Maceman defeats (4.88/8): French Swordsman
Maceman defeats (2.48/8): French Spearman

Turn 215 (850 AD)
Axeman defeats (3.80/5): French Swordsman
Axeman defeats (5.00/5): French Swordsman
Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Indian Archer
Maceman defeats (7.04/8): Indian Archer
Spearman defeats (4.00/4): Indian Chariot
Spearman defeats (4.00/4): Indian Chariot
Spearman defeats (2.44/4): Indian Chariot
Maceman defeats (7.04/8): Indian Archer

I made a mistake - I didn't realize there was a way across for AI galleys to the East. 2 got through and are blocking us. They landed the indian archers above and a warrior.

Turn 216 (860 AD)
Maceman defeats (6.80/8): Indian Warrior
Galley defeats (0.92/2): Incan Galley
Axeman defeats (4.80/5): Mongolian Axeman
Axeman defeats (4.80/5): Indian Archer

Turn 217 (870 AD)
Harkuf (Great Merchant) born in Berlin
Maceman defeats (5.44/8): Indian Chariot
Spearman defeats (3.52/4): Indian Chariot
Crossbowman defeats (5.28/6): Indian Archer
Galley defeats (0.10/2): Indian Galley

Turn 218 (880 AD)
Tech learned: Currency
Galley defeats (0.10/2): Incan Galley
Galley loses to: Indian Galley (2.00/2)

I used our Great Merchant to get Currency. We can now build Markets. I need to concentrate on defense a bit longer though. Next player will want to build them I think.

Capitol is building galleys full time.

Turn 219 (890 AD)
Maceman defeats (7.04/8): Egyptian War Chariot
Maceman defeats (6.16/8): Egyptian Swordsman
Maceman defeats (2.64/8): Egyptian Swordsman
Crossbowman defeats (2.64/6): Egyptian Swordsman
Axeman defeats (3.70/5): Egyptian Axeman

Turn 220 (900 AD)
Axeman defeats (2.00/5): Incan Spearman
Horse Archer defeats (5.16/6): Incan Catapult


Notes:
Do Harbors (or lighthouses) give Vet Galleys? If so we should build one. Our galleys need help if they are to hold off the enemy.

We currently have very few visible enemies. I even was able to attack out on the last turn.

I think we have space for at least 2 more towns and should build them. Remember we do well with coastal towns given the colossus. It doesn't take much for a town to pay for itself and more.

Here is the spot that the AI can cross:

Here is the current front line:

 

[ThERat]

great recovery, but we need to protect our water of the enemy will ship units behind the lines and then we are in deep trouble

as for techs I woulf go for engineering then for optics and caravels for better defense. It's dry docks that give higher experience for ships.

I see we have NO medic in Cologne. This can be a costly mistake. I advise to promote the next availabe unit to medic. We really need that.

 

[T_McC]

Got it, will see what I can do.

 

[grs]

Yes, I may have done better building more archers, but it may be easier to see that in hindsight. What really surprises me, is that the mace I rushed in 800AD could already defend in the AIs 800AD turn, it was the one that saved us.

 

[Greebley]

Yes that is a change from civ3.

Does anyone know if there is a difference between a rushed unit and one that completes in 1 turn? Are they both the same? I think they are not - that you get the rushed unit before and the completing unit after.

We do have some galleys and can block the spot. that the AI can cross. Several stacks are more than one galley - I was trying to line up pairs.

Also one galley is healing in cologne.

We will still want to keep the capitol on Galleys. I was even chopping to get them faster.

 

[knupp715]

Wow, great job Greebley. Looks like we are safe at the moment.

I agree that we should get a medic in Cologne ASAP. And Greebley, I'm pretty sure based on my experiences only rushed units can defend in the IBT. Once I lost a city because I thought that my unit that would be built in one turn would defend during the IBT and I was wrong. If only I had rushed the unit (you can rush it even when there is only 1 turn left), I would have been able to save the city and only at the cost of 1 pop.

 

[T_McC]

GOMAW 27

900 AD (0)
So ... do I really believe volume is the key? Swap all cities with Barracks to produce Archers and slow research so that all the units will complete before Feudalism. We need these bodies not just for the choke, but also to defend the 2-4 new cities we found in our current territory.

I'm still inclined to go for the Great Library in Munich (less GP dilution) but I should only get to choose 1 single research topic this round.

910 AD (1)
Shuffle some units around. The Medic will be a Horse Archer, if we can get something we can attack around the choke. We always want the Medic to be a unit that won’t come up on defense. Scouts are actually ideal for this, but you have to plan for it early. If you get lucky with XP from huts you have a Medic II unit that can keep up with Tanks.

First order of worker business is completing our road network. Our two cities in the north aren’t connected to our southern cities.

IT – We lose both coin-flip Galley battles and have a fishing net pillaged around the choke. Let’s see how badly we got boned on 50/50 battles (i.e, those f**ing galleys had better be really injured and easy to kill in retaliation.)

930 AD (3)
Business is going to pick up at the choke soon. Win one vs. an Indian Galley that made a attack. Now we have a couple of Combat II Galleys to guard our fishing nets. Starting to pile Galleys up at the eastern crossing.

Have a couple of Markets started. Should probably look to make sure we have all of our cities Confucian. Yes, so no need for Missionaries yet.

IT – Crossbow kills Keshik x2. I would say this front is locked down.

940 AD (4)
Feudalism in, start on Alphabet. I do think we want to build the Great Library, so this shouldn’t be too much of a diversion.

950 AD (5)
Win 5 out of 6 vs. Keshiks on the IT, lose another biased coin-flip in the water. The only way to defend at sea is volume.

960 AD (6)
Win 8/8 at the choke, go 1 for 2 in the water, including a loss where we had a 30% strength edge.

Go on offense and kill another 5 units at the choke. There is a Catapult that I do not want to allow to hide beneath a multi-nation stack. Kill the Cat and see enough units on the horizon that I upgrade an Archer at the choke to a Longbow, just to have another strong defender in case the healing is slower than desired.

980 AD (8)
Alphabet comes in and I blink. Research set to Construction, I want Cats of our own as we start to have bombard damage at Cologne. I hope the AI can’t coordinate attacks well enough for all of the units in the stack to wait out the bombardment to attack, or else we’re dead. Hopefully the AI that didn’t bring the Cat will charge the city and leave us with the opportunity to smite the Cat in the field.

990 AD (9)
AI does as hoped and we win 9/9 at the choke.

Found Dusseldorf and Bremen. The east coast one starts a Galley, the west coast a Worker. Our economy is vaguely stable at 60% science, but we’ll do better when the first couple of Markets complete.

Back at the choke I smite 3 enemy units, then 2 more and the Catapult and the coast is clear. We’ll have a turn respite to start to regain our defenses before the next wave appears.

1000 AD (10)
First Market completes and we’re not as much in the red. A little growth and another Market should put us in the black at 60% science.

Go on the offense at the choke and kill 3 units. Last unit has to live because I don’t like the odds on the attack. I won’t attack out of the city at less than 80%.

Final Notes:
More with the pictures, but keep building Galleys. We averted a disaster by closing off the east crossing. Huyana had three Galleys full of troops trying to cross but they all turned around when our second galley made the scene and blocked them. We should be two deep on each square of that crossing. Had those Galleys landed we would have lost at least one city.

The Crossbows are starting to promote nicely and are becoming dominant. I think the best way to promote them (for city defenders) is to get to City Garrison II and then pile on the Drill promotions. The pseudo-unbalancing part of this is that the City Garrison promotions make the First Strikes more likely to hit, and the city defenses are added to that as well.

I had a very infrastructure-heavy round after the initial burst of Archers. We should have a military round to beef up our south, hence going for Construction instead of Lit after Alphabet. A couple of Crossbows, a couple of Elephants, and 2-3 Cats should be enough to stave off any Galley-borne invading force, in case our blockade breaks down. The units can be stationed in the south and shadow up the coast any Galleys that escape the blockade.

The Great Library should be very possible. Even if we go for Lit next, Munich has time to complete the current Horse Archer and another unit before starting on the Wonder, and it only costs us the equivalent of ~2 Maces to build.

Since we know Alphabet, we can see we are the most advanced civ in the game.

Be on the lookout for whip opportunities. I would whip a Forge in Cologne next (that city will carry the steep penalty of a single unhappy face for the rest of the game) and then after it grows back out a bit, a Courthouse. Definitely start looking to build Courthouses so we can push the science rate up to 70%.

 

[T_McC]

The choke:

Three enemy "stacks" circled. None have more than 3 units in them, and the NW one has injured units. From where I don't know, but I'd guess the Barbs are at least pinging the enemy.

Our two new cities:

The Rice is worth 2 Health in any city with a Granary. It'll be in our boundaries in 13 turns. The forest on the hill could be chopped to hustle along the worker build.

The Incan Galleys came from the red circle. We should have two Galleys on each of the squares we are currently occupying.

 

[ThERat]

solid round of turns, kill ratio is looking better and better, once we have secured the choke, we can think stinging the enemy across the canal with some maces + cats.

So, we go for GL and then maybe Chichen Itza, by the way, we should aim for steel coming from the free tech we get from liberalism, it's some turns away, but we should keep that in mind, cannons are pretty powerful.

 

[Gaspar~]

Lurker comment:

This game inspired me to try a solo AW on a Hub, Xbow in a well defended choke is just insane good if you can get it to Drill IV. On Epic speed I got it to 463xp before upgrading it to Rifleman. FWIW, I also let the AI keep some units a tile away pretty much all the time, the WW absolutely cripples their tech pace. The real flaw is the AI doesn't build roads to the danger zone, so it takes them forever to get to you so they don't go back to upgrade. I still get the occassional Chariot or Spear thrown at the city. You usually have ~25 turns after they acquire a new military tech before you actually see any of those units show up on the front. Defeating them however, I still haven't quite worked out.

Great read.

 

[Greebley]

If we seriously want to defend the choke from the AI, then we should have Caravels when the AI gets them - i.e. not wait too long to go for them.

BTW, I would wait on Galleons. They expire Colossus, and we don't need them. We can do land attacks. Eventually we can move the choke point to the blue snow circle in T_McC's picture and be able to attack that one opponent south of us. That will double our land. The choke point isn't quite as good (no forest), but it seems a good first expand to me - isolate and attack one enemy.

 

[Bezhukov]

463xp!

Did the unit run out of upgrades?

That's amazing. You could build 33 West Points!

 

[Gaspar~]

All it had left was medic 2.

 

[T_McC]

Yeah, sometime after the next turnset or two we'll have to discuss a conquering strategy. I think the Incans have settled a choke city of their own, so we may want to capture that and fight everyone else at two cities, and the Incans at one. Not at all sure what to expect as far as defense in the Incan cities, although I would suspect less units than a normal game since they won't have their offensive units loitering about.

The advantage to capturing the Incan choke city is that we can walk there under the cover of Crossbow. We would still need plenty of Galleys, though, since we wouldn't be able to maintain a road network between the two chokes. I would want to have a choke city leading to the Incans so we can fight them alone offensively. If we started from the E coast we may have to navigate a lot of loose enemy units since any cities we conquer will be weaker than Cologne. I'd rather give the other AI an only slightly-less formidable target.

So maybe marching a stack from Cologne while using Galleys to bring more troops from our core, take the Incan choke and work our way East. We almost assuredly don't want to capture every Incan city, but we should be in decent position to capture a few and raze most. We'll be able to resettle their part of the land in relative peace since no other civ can possibly bring enough force to hold a city there.

 

[ThERat]

we should try and get that choke town and check whether we can cope with holding both and then take out Incas.

as for caravels and galleons. I am sure we can avoid astronomy for quite a while, we don't really need that. However, I feel caravels for better defense might be really crucial.
So, my suggested tech progress for near future would be:

construction (cats), literature (TGL), engineering (pikes, castle, 3 tile moves), compass (harbors), optics (caravels)


Roster
ThERat
grs
Greebley
T_McC
knupp715 - up

 

[ThERat]

unless knupp sends a 'got it' by tonight, I am going to play 10 turns tonight Singapore time, things needs to keep going to not lose momentum

knupp was actually active on Feb 20th, but no 'got it'

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
use a xbow with 93% success chance and kill that axe
MM a little for some growth

1. 1005AD
set Munich on aqueduct, we might want to get the Hanging Gardens
Confucianism has spread to Duesseldorf by itself
units in Cologne can heal now since no attacks
work boat is out again, galley next, we need a few more of these

2 Inca galleys are near eastern choke (one filled with units)

IT Inca lose one galley and thus cannot cross at the choke
3 loaded galleys show up in the south

2. 1010AD
shift one galley so to force them to drop their load in front of Cologne
I rather face the units there

IT as hoped Incas drop 6 units in front of Colgone
we get construction and go for literature in 2

3. 1015AD
income now at -1gpt at 60% science due to market in Hamburg
rush a galley in Cologne to be safe in the future
8 Inca units are in front of Cologne including a cat

IT we defeat 3 units but amazingly lose a fully healed xbow

4. 1020AD
go for a cat in Cologne next, new big stack next to it

IT defeat 4 units on defense, the rest doesn't want to attack
we get literature, engineering next in 12

5. 1025AD
I can't really attack the big stack to get the cat buried beneath
try and trick Inca galley to attack
swap Munich to GL in 14

situation there

IT Inca galley wins against one of ours, then we defeat 4 units at Cologne almost losing our super elite mace

6. 1030AD
defeat wounded Inca galley
see the chance to get rid of small stack at Cologne with cat
defeat all 4 units without losses

7. 1035AD
Incas found a new city very close to the choke, we should try and get that city
(it is used from others to pass through with their galleys)

IT defeat 3 units without losses and we spot the st pretorian in the distance

8. 1040AD
zzz

9. 1045AD
we get somewhat of a breather before the next round of attacks
meanwhile our workers are hooking up the rice

10. 1050AD
we now have enough galleys, each stack has 2 of them, so that should suffice until we get caravels
big stack next to Cologne
engineering due in 7, GL in 9

next player can use cat to attack the big stack, but the odds aren't really great
I would go for calendar and optics next to get caravels as well as to hook up one more resource
we might want to build HE in either Hamburg (suggest that) or Berlin

 

[ThERat]

Roster
ThERat
grs - up
Greebley
T_McC
knupp715 - please reconfirm for next round

by the way, in the south we have 5 galleys, 2 stacks with 2 and that northern galley, which can be shifted south to prevent the AI from slipping through with their galleys. Please do so once the AI turns up with galleys

 

[T_McC]

Keep an eye for Courthouse opportunities. We're not close to being able to research at 70% profitably, but we may not be too far away with a little bit of growth and some cost reductions. Not sure we want to be running some of the Engineers we have, I would value a food over 3 isolated GPP.

For the Heroic Epic, Hamburg will have more raw shields, but Berlin gets the Beauracracy bonus and could also apply (I think) the military unit bonus to boats. We're not going to be leaving Beauracracy until we have Police State so I would favor Berlin unless we were planning to put a different two Nat'l Wonders there. Hamburg could get Iron Works and Wall Street while Berlin takes Heroic Epic and West Point. I would at least think about putting the National Epic in Cologne since that city can run the most specialists. If not there, then Munich for the Wonder GPP.

Not a big fan of the Hanging Gardens since we don't have stone. I just think we can find a better use for those shields given the modest effect of the wonder.

We actually have two Calendar resources. We irrigated a Sugar and will now have to Plantation over it. I don't think that reduces the food from the tile. We also need to research Compass before Optics, but we can use Harbors in our cities.

We have another decent spot to settle on our E coast. Can work the Crabs and the Horse right away and with a little work can grow to size 8 before it needs to use non-food bonus water tiles.

Here's what I was thinking about for attacking the Incans. We can march a stack out of the choke (including a couple of workers) and capture Vitcos. There is a forest to chop to hustle Walls along, and a forest to occupy to keep the Incans separated from the other AI and our original choke. Make a slow drive with our units down the isthmus and when we are about to attack Villacamba we float the rest of our offense over to the Copper hill and attack that city. We should have time to assemble the flotilla while reinforcements move by land (or sea) to Vitcos. I think the Incan city has to be on the Yellow dot, but no guarantees. I think it used to be a barb city and those are notoriously one off the coast. If we can hold the two cities on the Isthmus and the copper city we can raze all of the other Incan cities except for the Capital and resettle as our economy allows. Just a thought to get us started, this is all probably 20 turns away.

 

[grs]

I got it and will play on Friday night.