Grun1: Prince Kublai the Theocrat

[Grunthex]

Ok, I've been thinking of hosting a game, based on an idea that's been percolating (staff meeting today), but I wouldn't want to play first - hopefully we have a good veteran to lead us off. Here's my thoughts on settings:

Size: LARGE
Map: Tilted Axis - Small Continents
AIs: 11 Random (as opposed to 9 normally on Large maps)
Climate: Temperate or Random
Sea Level: Low
Leader: Kublai Khan (Agg/Cre)
Difficulty: Prince
Winning Conditions: All on. Ya think Aggressive Theocrats could win Diplo?
Rules: None of the variant rules turned on. I thought about Agressive AI, but with 2 extra players on the map, we should get enough tension.

Variant: We're gonna be Theocrats, dammit! 1 religion for us, and everyone else we can spread it to. But it can't be Hinduism or Buddhism, because I'm bored with them. Judaism has a catchy theme.

Thoughts: Since we don't start with Mysticism, we'd be unlikely to get the first 2 religions anyway on Prince, but going for Judaism early could be fun. I think Theocracy comes with one of the religion-founding techs, so if we do get Judaism, we'd have to hold off getting that tech until someone else founded the religion. As a relaxed complication (how's that for contradiction), we don't have to beeline for Theocracy -- but if someone else spreads a heathen religion to us, then we get annoyed and want to be Theocratic as soon as we can (making sure we still only found one religion!)

The map: Should be odd. Crowded, since we added 2 civs for the map size, but a bit bigger due to low sea level. And tilted axis, so remember we have east and west poles! Note that I would like a large map, so people having computer problems with larger maps might not want this game.

No idea how well this might play out, but I'll set up a roster, and we'll see who wants to try it!

Roster:
madviking
Truronian
Grunthex
parachute4u
Eozenig
Rince

Turns: 20 per player for the first round, then 10 each.
Edit: Roster is now full.

 

[parachute4u]

Hi Grunthex,

although I have never played SG before, I'd be interested. I like the theocrat theme. How about Confucianism as the religion of choice though? Kubilai was the Khan, that ruled/conquered China, as far as I know. So confucianism would be nice (although the Mongols used to hire Buddhists to do the bureaucrats job).

Some ideas/concerns
Small continents will be hard to manage. Because it is going to need a fleet of ships to get those missionaries out into the foreign lands. Apart from that I have my doubts about the difficulty setting. I am struggling to win on Prince doing a similar theme with the Arabs. Building missionaries is not cost efficient, when you could build catapults instead. And building monasteries in every city, that has coins in abundance, does NOT mean to keep up in the tech race. In Civ4 it is quite hard to make the game go the way you want it to...

But I am up for the challenge. I'd like to see those temples built!

parachute

 

[Grunthex]

I don't think I've ever been Confucian as a primary, we could do that. Anywhere in particular you'd like to be slotted in? I have my own concerns about the difficulty -- Prince seems a lot tougher than Noble so far, but usually a SG plays easier since people think together, and take the time to talk things out.

 

[parachute4u]

Just tried a game with mongols today... Did not get confucianism, cause I had to fight an early war and went sort of bankrupt because of getting 5 cities all too quick... But I destroyed the Indians in the process and got my holy city (Delhi) all the same.

Funny thing about the game is, that I destroyed the Indians and beat the Chinese and Genghis-Mongols in a war twice, pillaging most of their economy and destroying some of their cities, but still kept falling back in tech very much (In spite of having biggest GNP and Population). So i got beaten soundly in the middle ages, with no chance of recovery. -- You know you've lost, if you have to fight muskets with catapults, I guess....

Starting is most difficult in Civ4. Religion/War/Expansion sets the pace for the game, so I'd rather not start- Don't want to be the one responsible, in case everything goes wrong

But count me in, roster >1

 

[madviking]

I'll be your SG vet
I got a comp that plays civ4 well.

 

[Truronian]

May I join? Not much SG experience, but I can just about win on Prince (with a good start). Just finishing a tri-religion game, so the theocrat theme sounds refreshing. My vote is with Judaism, or if we miss that, Christianity.

 

[Grunthex]

Well, I've edited the roster in and taken our volunteer sacr, er, veteran to go first! Hopefully I can get a screenshot and the save of our start into this post...

So when you're ready, madv, take her away!

Truronian - my post count should give away I don't have a lot of SG experience either -- we'll figure it out!

 

[madviking]

My intial thoughts:
cows and horses go for animal domestication
found in place, set on worker, warrior, settler, something else.

 

[Truronian]

Whatabout a very early chariot rush? Two or three chariots could probably take out a civ before they can say Archery, and it would give u something to build while we wait for the capital to grow

 

[Grunthex]

I've never built a worker before size 2, but with so many usable squares, with just 1 researched tech, it might be worth it (we have hunting, so could use both elephants, the cows and the horses with just Domestication)

Note there's a fish right there too, once we get Fishing.

I think we should look around before deciding if we want an early rush -- if there's no one too close, it's not that practical. If someone is nearby though, it's certainly nothing to discount. Chariots crush fortified warriors. Well, maybe not crush, but they have the edge.

Note that with a few useful techs early (domestication, fishing) going for Judaism might not work. But confucianism is just a bit past domestication...


Roster:
madviking -- UP!
Truronian -- On deck
Grunthex
parachute4u
<open>
<open>

 

[madviking]

SAVE
contacts:
Washington 3800 BC, island SE of Grunakarum
Montezuma 3560 BC, in the jungle
Qui Shi Huang 3080 BC, on the edge of the jungle

Units:
scout 1 (woodsman II)
scout 2 (plain)

 

[madviking]

Truronian is up!

 

[Eozenig]

Hi

Been a lurker here since Civilization II times and played the series since more than 10 years I always liked to read stories and reports from SG games, as much for tactics as for some nice stories. Now Civ IV is here and I admit that it's quality made me come out from my lurking and wish to take a part in those SG games I'd be glad to join that one as the theme and the rule set can make for an interesting game.

Some thoughts about the current status. I'm not sure it is a good idea to build a settler with our city at only size 2, even more with the nice ressources we have around. I'd wait size four until cows, horses and fish tiles are being worked. It means going for fishing after agriculture, and putting a barracks in the queue or build some warriors to wait for the work boat to be buildable.
It would make the city a nice settler/worker/unit factory at that point. It means a later expansion, but a faster and more secure one as we will be able to crank out units quite fast to cover it. And not the least, we would want to get the beakers boost from our fish tile as soon as possible to be sure to stay on course technologically.

Eozen

Edit : Typo

 

[madviking]

Welcome to CFC SGs Eozenig!!!
(you'll shall be assimilated into the SG community!! )

I think you're right about the whole settler thing...

 

[parachute4u]

Hi everyone,

Nice to see the game going already.
I opt for building a scout first, not a settler, while growing Grunakorum to size 3. There is only two spots for the second city, I can see ATM.

Green spot doesn't have to be settled in a hurry (cause its close), red spot is a bit too far away for my liking. (Apart from that it's in the middle of the jungle )The rest of the land doesn't look very suitable for horse archers and/or chariots...

After the city has grown, the cow will (nearly) be ready to help building the settler. And with a (third!) scout we may get lucky on a goody hut or two...

Note that it may be better to build roads after improving the tiles. Cause in Civ4 you dont have to build road everywhere like in Civ3.
Don't know about fishing though. Fishes don't give us shields. And we will be needing some shields to tame those animals and barbarians lurking in the jungle.

 

[Truronian]

I've got it, I'll play tonight (around midday America time). I'm liking Green dot more than red, we may waste time in connecting red when it will probably be easier to simply conquer that area later.

BTW, what speed setting is this on?

 

[Rince]

If the last slot is still free, i would like to sign up!

Greetings,

Rince

 

[Truronian]

0) Switched build to chariot, so Grunkorum could grow to size three. Opted for chariot as it took the same turn time as the expansion (six turns).

1) Worker begins on bovine ops

2) Agriculture done, commence on fishing.

3) NW scout recovers from madviking's abuse

4) Louis finds us. He is beating us, score-wise

Meet Bismark up north.

5) Send worker to elephants. Recently recovered North scout finds three panthers None of them attacked us though . Maybe thats something to do with his woodsman II promotion.

6) Grunkorum expands and finishes chariot. Begins on settler.

North west scout pops a gold hut

7) Fishing discovered. I begin our decent into theocracy with mysticism. It looks like Judaism will fall to an AI, so I think one of the next tier is looking most promising (Christianity would get us theocracy at the same time )

Chariot pops gold hut and finds potential city site.

8) Some panthers commit suicide by attcaking our chariot (1exp)

9) Our north scout survives lion attack (only just, 0.1 strength !!!)

10) Use a lion as training for our chariot. Looks like Grunthex will get to decide what promotion to take.

Our neighbourhood:

 

[madviking]

Grunthrex is now up.

 

[Truronian]

@Eozenig

Sorry, I missed your point about the fish . The settler will be done soon, so I think if we imediately build a work boat and use the chariot as a temp defender for city two, we should be on track.

Welcome Rince . I believe we have ourselves a full roster.