[GUIDE] Religion for dummies

[steass]

Now, here's the deal: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12621735&postcount=6

Cities gather religious pressure points, being atheism considered a religion. Population follows a religion with the same ratio as the religious pressure. If a city has gathered 1000 from judaism, 1000 from atheism and 2000 from shinto, then 25% will be judaist, 25% atheist and 50% shintoist.
A missionary spread religion action adds 1000 pressure points of its religion to the city. If the missionary is injured it may be less. The Prophet spread religion action removes previous pressure pool and adds 1000 pressure points of its religion. The inquisitor removes 'heretic' pressure points.
A newborn citizen in a city adds 100 atheist pressure points when the city isn't following any religion, and 100 religious pressure points when the city is following one.
Beliefs can increase the religious pressure strength or make it more resilient against religious actions.

EDIT. The guide should be right now.

This link is simply amazing. He gives the numbers I've been searching for. Finally!!!!!

Do you know if this has been changed for this mod?

Also I still don't know the changes in this mod for passive pressure. People have mentioned that distance is now a variable but won't say what that variable is.

 

[steass]

Even Funak, the deity player that knows just about everything, wasn't sure of this.

But that just proves my point.

If a deity level player doesn't know, what chance is there for just a casual gamer like me

Now go and ask exactly how much money a Great Merchant earns in his trade missions.

But there is a formula for that. And it's shown in the UI before you click trade. Or is that incorrect too?

There is no UI to show the total pressure or a breakdown in sources of pressure and their multipliers in a city or how close to a conversion etc

 

[tu_79]

This link is simply amazing. He gives the numbers I've been searching for. Finally!!!!!

Do you know if this has been changed for this mod?

Also I still don't know the changes in this mod for passive pressure. People have mentioned that distance is now a variable but won't say what that variable is.

Ok, I'd say, not 100% sure, that base religious pressure from a city that is following is 6. In vanilla, Holy City would be double, 12, but I think actual numbers are different, just play a game and check the numbers yourself (found a religion, set a trade route to another city and watch numbers). As I said, this can be changed at any time.
The range, as explained in the guide, is 12 steps (not tiles). Take a warrior and see if it can reach the other city in 6 turns (as the warrior has 2 steps per turn). So, if you build roads, chop trees, learn bridges, you are increasing the range for spreading religion (and for trade routes, by the way). If someone feels 12 steps is too much or to few, it may be changed again.

I can't see why you can't see my point with Funak: You can play this game fairly well without knowing the exact numbers for everything. In fact, you should learn to adapt, as each version might change things.

 

[tu_79]

Not sure if I misphrased this earlier, or you just the put the wrong word, but, if you found a religion yourself, its your main religion no matter what happens with populace. Its only when all your holy cities are conquered that each religion's population comes into play.

Maybe I misunderstood Gazebo. Hope someone could clarify.

This thing, making a guide on a subject you don't master, is amazing. You keep being corrected, and making the guide better, and we all learn, I myself included.

 

[Funak]

Also I still don't know the changes in this mod for passive pressure. People have mentioned that distance is now a variable but won't say what that variable is.

It's complicated, so complicated that I didn't bother trying to figure it out.
Pressure cities apply on other cities is based on distance (the further away the lower pressure), road access (roads seems to greatly increase pressure), Trade routes (trade-routes between two cities seems to apply pressure to both of them like in vanilla although not in exact numbers, the numbers are probably based on a fixed value and the pressure the cities are already applying to each-other), mapsize (not 100% sure on that one) and gamespeed (slower gamepaces means slower spread). On top of that there are buildings, policies and beliefs affecting the number.

To give an example, in my current game, there is a fairly isolated city-state in the corner of the map, it got 3 catholic cities 8 tiles away (7 tiles between them) and another catholic city 6 tiles away (5 tiles between them). That city only feels a +5 pressure from that which is a lot less than it would receive in vanilla, on the other hand all of my cities are over +100 pressure, even those close to the protestant border.

If a deity level player doesn't know, what chance is there for just a casual gamer like me

First of all, I don't know everything, clearly . Second, I don't need to know everything, I know how features interact and I know in broad terms how mechanics works, that to me is well enough. Unless you're counting turns needed for pressure to convert border-cities you have absolutely no use for the exact numbers, and even with those exact numbers you couldn't make the calculation anyways because there are so many outside factors and you never know the state of the pressure-pool for the cities anyways.

Civ is half planning, half instinct and half reacting. Yes, that's three halves, deal with it

 

[steass]

Ok, I'd say, not 100% sure, that base religious pressure from a city that is following is 6. In vanilla, Holy City would be double, 12, but I think actual numbers are different, just play a game and check the numbers yourself (found a religion, set a trade route to another city and watch numbers). As I said, this can be changed at any time.
The range, as explained in the guide, is 12 steps (not tiles). Take a warrior and see if it can reach the other city in 6 turns (as the warrior has 2 steps per turn). So, if you build roads, chop trees, learn bridges, you are increasing the range for spreading religion (and for trade routes, by the way). If someone feels 12 steps is too much or to few, it may be changed again.

Thanks this is great information. I just wish the information was more accessible that's all.

It's complicated, so complicated that I didn't bother trying to figure it out.
Pressure cities apply on other cities is based on distance (the further away the lower pressure), road access (roads seems to greatly increase pressure), Trade routes (trade-routes between two cities seems to apply pressure to both of them like in vanilla although not in exact numbers, the numbers are probably based on a fixed value and the pressure the cities are already applying to each-other), mapsize (not 100% sure on that one) and gamespeed (slower gamepaces means slower spread). On top of that there are buildings, policies and beliefs affecting the number.

To give an example, in my current game, there is a fairly isolated city-state in the corner of the map, it got 3 catholic cities 8 tiles away (7 tiles between them) and another catholic city 6 tiles away (5 tiles between them). That city only feels a +5 pressure from that which is a lot less than it would receive in vanilla, on the other hand all of my cities are over +100 pressure, even those close to the protestant border.

This information is also new and amazing.

I just don't get why the information isn't widely available, and why it had to take so much persistence to get people to give me that info lol

But thanks guys for all the information, it has helped me a lot.

I wish we could see the pressure pool though :<

I mean in my game right now, the CS that is 4-5 tiles away isn't getting any pressure from my city at all.

And religious pressure isn't spreading in my trade routes from my capital (holy city). It only spreads pressure if I trade to with my own cities, but none to other nations.

I was hoping that if I understood the numbers and the mechanics I could understand why frustratingly in some cases no pressure is being exerted.

 

[tu_79]

Is your CS 4-5 tiles away by land? Religious pressure should be reaching. Try some roads towards it.
Also, are you using EUI? It's known to miss here and there.

Sometimes a trade route doesn't share religious pressure, but I don't know the reason, could be a bug or a feature. In these cases it's better to ask Gazebo.

 

[Funak]

Is your CS 4-5 tiles away by land? Religious pressure should be reaching. Try some roads towards it.
Also, are you using EUI? It's known to miss here and there.

Could be rough-terrain slowing spread down, but 4-5 tiles still sound pretty close.

Sometimes a trade route doesn't share religious pressure, but I don't know the reason, could be a bug or a feature. In these cases it's better to ask Gazebo.

Would probably be better to ask Ilteroi, considering he was the one designing the system, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[avl8]

Guys, is it possible to protect city state from being converted by parking an inquisitor nearby?

 

[Funak]

Guys, is it possible to protect city state from being converted by parking an inquisitor nearby?

Only if you've conquered the city-state.

 

[avl8]

Only if you've conquered the city-state.

Thank you for such a swift answer!

I think OP should correct this one:

"Inquisitor. This unit can prevent the 'spread religion' action from both Prophets and missionaries if stationed inside or adjacent to the city."

Anyway, great guide and great comments we have here!
Keep it up!

 

[tu_79]

Done. You guys are really picky

 

[Stalker0]

Now, here's the deal: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12621735&postcount=6

Cities gather religious pressure points, being atheism considered a religion. Population follows a religion with the same ratio as the religious pressure. If a city has gathered 1000 from judaism, 1000 from atheism and 2000 from shinto, then 25% will be judaist, 25% atheist and 50% shintoist.
A missionary spread religion action adds 1000 pressure points of its religion to the city. If the missionary is injured it may be less. The Prophet spread religion action removes previous pressure pool and adds 1000 pressure points of its religion. The inquisitor removes 'heretic' pressure points.
A newborn citizen in a city adds 100 atheist pressure points when the city isn't following any religion, and 100 religious pressure points when the city is following one.
Beliefs can increase the religious pressure strength or make it more resilient against religious actions.

EDIT. The guide should be right now.

Great thank you!

My main question is, if a Great Prophet removes all other religious pressure, than how come it doesn't always flip a city fully to my religion? In theory if 1000 pressure is all that is left, than 100% of the people should be following me. I assume maybe you have to get over the 100 pressure per citizen hump....even if you have wiped all other pressure out? Aka it doesn't kill all pressure, just resets it to 100 x pop?

Edit: Found my answer. the GP can't remove atheist pressure, so that's what dictates how successful a GP gets to be. It also means that a missionary is just as effective as converting an atheist city as a GP is. GPs advantage is only in removing a rival religion.

 

[tu_79]

Great thank you!

My main question is, if a Great Prophet removes all other religious pressure, than how come it doesn't always flip a city fully to my religion? In theory if 1000 pressure is all that is left, than 100% of the people should be following me. I assume maybe you have to get over the 100 pressure per citizen hump....even if you have wiped all other pressure out? Aka it doesn't kill all pressure, just resets it to 100 x pop?

Edit: Found my answer. the GP can't remove atheist pressure, so that's what dictates how successful a GP gets to be. It also means that a missionary is just as effective as converting an atheist city as a GP is. GPs advantage is only in removing a rival religion.

Interesting. I usually avoid prophet wars, so I didn't notice. I prefer to set an early religion and let the city pressure and trade do the rest. And if a prophet spawns after enhancing, there's always a tile where a Holy Site could do.

 

[cammcken]

t's complicated, so complicated that I didn't bother trying to figure it out.
Pressure cities apply on other cities is based on distance (the further away the lower pressure), road access (roads seems to greatly increase pressure), Trade routes (trade-routes between two cities seems to apply pressure to both of them like in vanilla although not in exact numbers, the numbers are probably based on a fixed value and the pressure the cities are already applying to each-other)

I believe, from just from intuition, that the pressure exerted by the trade route "makes up" for any pressure lost (less than the base) due to distance. So a nearby city that is already exerting the full base pressure will generate no extra pressure from a traderoute, while a further city that exerts less than the base will generate the difference from its trade route. Does that match everyone's experience?

I came here wondering whether population and # of followers affects passive pressure (beyond simply holding a majority or not). I have noticed that it seems to be easier to spread my religion when the receiving city does not already have it. I may have found an answer in the Piety Opener Policy, re-reading it carefully because it's vague. All it says is: "+100% pressure in nearby cities without your majority religion." Does that mean my cities (because I unlocked the policy) exert more pressure on any nearby cities that do not have my majority religion? If so, that would explain it.

Sorry for the necro, but I've been looking all over the forum for this guide. It's still relevant, and honestly should get a sticky or special sub-forum somewhere.

 

[Atheen]

How does pathfinder steps work on water/ocean? I've figured that cities within 7-11 tiles to each other has little or no spread if there is a water body between them.

 

[Bhawb]

How does pathfinder steps work on water/ocean? I've figured that cities within 7-11 tiles to each other has little or no spread if there is a water body between them.

IIRC religion doesn't spread over water passively at all. So single tile islands have essentially no religious pressure, they only get it from Cargo Ships and the Enhancer that makes Spies exert religious pressure.