Discussion in 'Civ4 - Dragonia II Mod' started by Darque, May 15, 2008.
Should the Dragonia mod feature gunpowder units in the Age of Magic?
I'm for limiting them to certain civs where it fits the flavor.
For all those that voted for limiting gunpowder units to certain civs...what civs should be able to use those units? And should that include cannons and cuirassiers?
dwarves and anyone else tech oriented.
Based on limiting the gunpowder it should vary with the civ. Gunpowder firearms on Earth started out as cannons so they should come first and then devolep into specailties. Some nations should be limited to having calvary specalized units and others infantry based depending on the strengths and weaknesses of the civ.
Just as Psychic Llamas said the technological nations should be the ones making the weapons. You could make gunpowder weapons availalbe on the mercenary lists. You could even allow the units to buy either gunpowder promotion or as an upgrade of somekind. Another method of obtaining weapons is having certain units able to take gunpowder weapons of off dead units (similar to obtaining the axe of orthus in Fall From Heaven II). I see this in particular a skill the goblins would have. This possiblity dosn't have to be limited to just gunpowder, if your using bronze weapons and you kill a unit using iron maybe you could steal those as well.
I do have one question will the goblins in Dragonia be more like Dungion siege goblins where they have lots of crude wacky technology. Maybe more like a Forgotten realms goblin thats very basic in its weapons?
I agree, except I don't think civs that have gunpowder weps would sell the technology. I think they'd keep it a closely guarded secret, lest their enemies gain it.
Also, make sure that the civs w/o gunpowder have units w/ equal strength. i.e. Make a few ranged units who use magic to power their projectiles for civs like Thay, the Drow, etc. Then make a very powerful but nonmagic ranged unit for civs like Paladorn, Furn, etc. This would keep gunpowder from bein way overpowered.
I would say yes, let the goblins have this skill. That makes em more devious and skulky. Like Goblins should be. It would also create specialized units for gobbo civs. And we all know most of the goblins have crude weaponry.
Not sure if ya could get the AI to handle it tho.
I didn't take into consideration that nations wouldnt sell their weapons and yes you are correct other units should have equal strength but i think that gunpowder weapons should have some distinct advantage and vice versa.
Yes, some advantage. But not nough to obliterate non-gunpowder units.
Exactly that is what I think should be done, we dont need to have stronger units give different advantages to those that wield gunpowder and a different advantage to the magic users. That way we have established a contrast not just flavored units.
Yes, that hit it. Contrast. Wat we need most of all w/ these units is contrast!
Darque, mind if we start comin up w/ some ideas?
Go ahead...I like ideas.
Ok i think i have established the needed contrast in my thought process. One thing ive noticed is that most units in the game are flavored units we need to begin making differences in the races for example: if a blade dancer is fighting a orc warrior they shouldn't have equal strength unless the elf is on roids. So the solution to this is a blade dancer should have something like a strength of three and the orc should have a strength of four. Even though the orc has a higher strength the blade dancer should have his own advantage like being more skilled with his blade.
This relates to the idea of gunpowder because players will form new and different strategies based upon available differences. Think of Star Craft if you have ever played it you have the Zerg who have very weak units but you can make TONS of them. You have the Protoss another Alien race who relies upon Superior fire power but it takes longer to produce them. The third race the Terran which is essentially the humans are somewhere in the middle of the division. This means we should also have a longer time to produce high quality units and a higher passed time for crapy but cheap and numerous units.
Getting a little of subject I thought it would be interesting to have a human race that uses a little bit of magic and a little bit o gunpowder. Humans in the forgotten realms tend to be much more centered and well rounded compared to the other races. Dwarves tend to be pure metal extremist and the stero typical wood elf great archers. Humans lie somewhere in between just like in Star Craft.
Another thought i had was for maybe a new race for latter builds that were Dragon riders! It seems to go along with the them of Dragonia anyway.
I like the idea of Humans bein in the middle. If it were completely up to me (which it ain't), I'd have a generic magic unit equal in strength to the gunpowder units (or a lil below with a bonus gainst them), then a generic gunpowder unit, and a pure archer unit for civs like the WEs. Then I'd have a UU for the Dwarves (Gunpowder UU), WEs (Archer UU), and Thay (Magic UU). I'd also have a seige unit that is gunpowder, like a cannon, and an upgraded version of the trebuchet equal in strength, (insert name here). The Dwarves should have a UU cannon unit to show their extensive use of gunpowder.
Those are my thoughts. I'm jus addin onto wat dead said, kinda formin somethin based off of his thoughts. But everyone tell me wat ya think.
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