Happiness is unbalanced

[stealth_nsk]

Not sure it is MUCH deeper. It's a bit deeper. Still, it feels really, really odd at times. Global happiness makes sense on some levels and doesn't make sense on others. I wish there was a way to distinguish between the two.

Playing Emperor now and going to try Immortal my next game. I have very funny times balancing my happiness. It involves all aspects of the game (techs, resources, diplomacy, city-states, social policies, buildings, war) coordinated. I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't make sense on some levels" - it's gameplay mechanics and it works well.

 

[Morlark]

Maybe someone can make a mod or something. I have a bad feeling they`re not about to patch this inconsistency.

There is no inconsistency. Unhappiness already scales by map size.

 

[drachasor]

Playing Emperor now and going to try Immortal my next game. I have very funny times balancing my happiness. It involves all aspects of the game (techs, resources, diplomacy, city-states, social policies, buildings, war) coordinated. I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't make sense on some levels" - it's gameplay mechanics and it works well.

Because either everyone in your entire empire is happy or no one is? That doesn't strike you as odd?

As a game mechanic it is much easier to deal with and I do more or less like it. I'm just saying there are some oddities about it that bug me now and then.

 

[drachasor]

There is no inconsistency. Unhappiness already scales by map size.

The total happiness from resources, wonders, etc does not scale, however.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Because either everyone in your entire empire is happy or no one is? That doesn't strike you as odd?

Why not? Even from the realism standpoint it's not less realistic than "Happy" and "Unhappy" cities. And it adds real empire-wide management, which was somewhat missed in previous civs.

 

[drachasor]

Why not? Even from the realism standpoint it's not less realistic than "Happy" and "Unhappy" cities. And it adds real empire-wide management, which was somewhat missed in previous civs.

Really? So you think everyone in a country being just as happy is JUST as realistic as happiness and unhappiness varied more throughout a country?

 

[Tridus]

Why not? Even from the realism standpoint it's not less realistic than "Happy" and "Unhappy" cities. And it adds real empire-wide management, which was somewhat missed in previous civs.

Not really. There's no reason that the people in a recently annexed city being unhappy (due to being annexed) would cause Rome to be unhappy too.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Really? So you think everyone in a country being just as happy is JUST as realistic as happiness and unhappiness varied more throughout a country?

In history if revolt starts it usually starts through the whole country, not like one city is revolting and nearby city is "ok, we're happy, because we're small".

Not really. There's no reason that the people in a recently annexed city being unhappy (due to being annexed) would cause Rome to be unhappy too.

Iraq war caused a lot of unhappiness in all US cities, even though they left is as puppet state instead of annexing

Anyway, the point was about gameplay mechanic. Civ isn't realistic game and this mechanic doesn't break anything.

 

[drachasor]

In history if revolt starts it usually starts through the whole country, not like one city is revolting and nearby city is "ok, we're happy, because we're small".

Yeah, just like the American Civil War, right? That happened when everyone was really unhappy at once. Oh wait, no, it was just part of the country. You'll actually have trouble finding revolts that start in all parts of a country at once.

Iraq war caused a lot of unhappiness in all US cities, even though they left is as puppet state instead of annexing

War Weariness.

Anyway, the point was about gameplay mechanic. Civ isn't realistic game and this mechanic doesn't break anything.

So you start an argument with me when I make a side comment about how it is a bit unrealistic and it would be nice if there was some way to have both local and global happiness as a mechanic?

I guess this forum has gotten a bit too polarized. If someone issues a mild critique of Civ V then it starts a ridiculous argument with someone.

 

[Fistalis]

I guess this forum has gotten a bit too polarized. If someone issues a mild critique of Civ V then it starts a ridiculous argument with someone.

Pretty much this..

The worst part of CiV is what its done to the community...

 

[Tutkarz]

Some of you think thats it is ok for small map to have easy time for managing happiness and hard time for this on large maps. But for me its wrong since it forces players to employ wierd mechanics like razing cities or building pop 1 cities only to have happiness buildings. Or making almost impossible to cover my empty spaces in my country with culture borders - that is wierd and unrealistic (and NOT fun). Or even force me to build cities only to get next happiness resource - instead where i want more. So to me game is not balanced at all in regard to map sizes and it should be changed.

small map and half of the world covered should be same unhappy like big map (with more cities but the same % of world). If you dont agree then maybe you should think more about it.

 

[Tutkarz]

In history if revolt starts it usually starts through the whole country, not like one city is revolting and nearby city is "ok, we're happy, because we're small".

Iraq war caused a lot of unhappiness in all US cities, even though they left is as puppet state instead of annexing

Anyway, the point was about gameplay mechanic. Civ isn't realistic game and this mechanic doesn't break anything.

You do know that reason to revolt can be reproduced in every city like it was "we are unhappy because we are at war" in civ IV? And it worked great. And even more it allowed mods for greater flexibility. Now its not possible.

 

[db0]

Happiness penalties/bonuses do scale up depending on the map type. It's in the XML for each world.

 

[drachasor]

Happiness penalties/bonuses do scale up depending on the map type. It's in the XML for each world.

That's just the base amount because of difficulty though, yes? It doesn't affect luxuries, social policies, buildings, or any of the other massive sources of happiness.

 

[db0]

That's just the base amount because of difficulty though, yes? It doesn't affect luxuries, social policies, buildings, or any of the other massive sources of happiness.

It's based on size, not difficulty and I'm guessing it affects how much unhapiness you get per pop/city.

 

[drachasor]

It's based on size, not difficulty and I'm guessing it affects how much unhapiness you get per pop/city.

Hmm. Interesting. I'll have to try a setting other than huge -- on huge you get 1 unhappiness per population, and 1 per city (err, more or less, seems a bit more than 1 per city, but not a whole number, since with Gandhi it goes up a bit more, but the population bit definitely seems 1-1 near as I could tell whenever I counted).

 

[db0]

In the Standard settings, you're supposed to be getting 1 per pop, and 2 per city. I think in Huge maps it's 60% of that, but I need to double-check.

 

[Teodosio]

Playing Emperor now and going to try Immortal my next game. I have very funny times balancing my happiness. It involves all aspects of the game (techs, resources, diplomacy, city-states, social policies, buildings, war) coordinated. I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't make sense on some levels" - it's gameplay mechanics and it works well.

I have just won a game on Emperor and I can just say that I agree 100% on what you said.

 

[Tutkarz]

I have just won a game on Emperor and I can just say that I agree 100% on what you said.

I dont know if you actually read what some of us write here, but we were saying about map size, not difficulty. So maybe you could enlighten us on what size your games are on.

 

[drachasor]

In the Standard settings, you're supposed to be getting 1 per pop, and 2 per city. I think in Huge maps it's 60% of that, but I need to double-check.

I'll double-check my per-city figures later...need some sleep now.