Harry Turtledove's Great War (BETA)

[JamesNW]

Be kind, as this is my first. I've been looking for a scenario based on the Great War series by Harry Turtledove with the USA VS the CSA for CIV 3 but haven't been able to find one. So, I made it! OK, Ok, this is my first go at it, and it's not completely finished yet, so here's an explaination of what we've got here.
According to the book, the Confederate States never lost the Civil War, but instead, won and became an independent country. 50 years later, with the South allied with England and France, and the USA allied with Germany, the outbreak of the First World War spreads to North America as well.
In my scenario, I created the whole world with countries as listed.
USA
CSA
British Empire
France
Spain
Italy
Germany
Nordic Countries (I included Holland in here)
Russia
Ottoman Empire
China
Japan
South American Countries (All counted as one)
Native African Tribes (There's also European colonies on the African continent as well)
Mexico
Canada

(Some of the cities may be screwed up with names and so on, please offer your advice)
Granted, not all these countries are involved in the war itself, but they were all allied with one side or the other, so with the whole world, you can get creative!

The Techs as well as the Units haven't been modified at all (Primarily as I don't know how!)
Also, I couldn't get the Europeans to declare war as I wanted to either, so any advice with that would be helpful. Other than that, let me know what you think.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

well thats a new twist on history. look forward to playing this, it sounds very good. I d be happy to give some feedback on city placement etc. I like the plot of this tho, very cool and original.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

upon consulting the editor, i have some city feedback for you.

Portand,OR has no acess to the sea

dakota could be renamed bismarck

miami is on the southeastern tip of florida. this miami should be renamed daytona, or moved up to where florida meets SC and called jacksonville

mogadishu i think is on the arabian sea, but im not entirely sure

jedda should be mecca

why have a city called suez but then the canal open? id choose one or the other

sparta is on the southern tip of greece. this sparta i would rename thermon or thebes. also, give it to greece

there are a lot of cities in anatolia and i dont see why

change edinburgh to aberdeen, and liverpool to edinburgh

nantes to bordeaux and brittany to nantes, and just get rid of hte bordaux present in france, i dont think they need it

orleans to tolouse

ho chi minh city was still saigon in 1914

put manila down at the bottom of the island its on now, SW of that rifleman there

inchon should be seoul, and change seoul to pyongyang

move astrakhan onto the ural river

i may be wrong, but i dont think the ruskies had helsinki, id give it to the scandanavians, but i may be wrong

sandwich islands are hawaii, rename to honolulu

in 1914 the amercans had bought alaska from the ruskies, give it to us.

aleutians should be called adak island

i woudl find the names of cities in the places where you named regions, such as bangladesh or rangoon

i havent played yet ima go to bed, maybe tommorow night

my corrections were purely objective, to provide you with help you asked for, so im not being neurotic about stuff. still looking forward to this map tho

 

[JamesNW]

Thanks for the info. I've updated the file as sudgested except for a few points.

Portland is a good 2 hour drive from the coast. While it is true that ships can access the city via the Columbia, there was not enough of docking facility at the time to represent it with sea access. my opinion, what do you think?

About Mogidashu, I checked and it is on the Indian Ocean, although I did add Berbera which is on the Arabian Sea.

Helsinki, in fact all of Finnland, was a "Grand Duchy" of Russia from the time it was taken over in the early 1700's from Sweden, (I'm pretty sure it was Pete the Great who did that) until 1917. At that time Lenin granted them freedom (couldn't prevent them from taking it). So, in this scenario, as the bolsheviks haven't taken over yet, Finnland (Helsinki) is still Russian

Regarding Alaska. I took a little "writer's lib" here. My idea (not spelled out in the book I'm basing this on) is that Alaska was never purchased, and the reasoning is this:
True, Russia offered to sell Alaska to the US during Buchanan's administration(can't remember when exactly) but that was put on hold due to the Civil War. Seward didn't actualy purchase until 1867 (for $7 million), after the war. Then, the purchase only went through the upper house by one vote, and even then convincing the senate was difficult. Seward, at the time, was secratary of state under Abraham Lincoln, who (assuming the war had been lost) would not have been very popular, therfore, not having much in the way of influence to expand the country. The US (recouping from a lost war) would not have been in any position to make the purchase any time in the, then, near future. Gold was found there in the late 1860's, and with even a short delay on the part of the US would have let the Russians be the one's to find it, and been less likely to sell. Also they would have very likely invested more money and people into developing the area (due to the gold) hence my placing more cities there than might normaly represent the population.
Another point was that Russia, at the time (all the way up till the revolution in fact), was decidedly pro-French. With the French (in my timeline) backing the CSA against the US, Russia would have swung to an anti-US sentiment (being pro-French), and possibly withdrawn the offer.

Sorry for the huge explaination, but that was my reasoning. Other than that, Thanks again for the info, and please keep it coming!

Also, I figured out the whole "locked alliances" thing, so I set the US and Germany agains the UK, France, and the CSA. Do you have any hints on how to set different countries moods regarding other countries?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

one way to 'set' moods of nations is to make them from different cultural groups. thats why two asian nationa get along better than an asian and a european. what i would do is make the US and its allies (germany i think you said?) of one culture group, maybe the eupoean one, and then confederacy and its allies(france etc) of another,probably american. now it might not look exactly right in the way of city graphics, etc but youll get closer to the results you were looking for without having to resort to more drastic measure, like a Locked alliance, i hate those. It doesnt represent how the sides can change, like how italy in WWI changed mid-war.

but yea i guess that whole alaska thing makes sense, thats really cool that you have this whole thing thought out like that. You ever read a book called "fitzpatrick's war?" its like set in the future, but they're in like the mid industrial age again since civilization like melted down and stuff. it really neat, cause the american kinda guys,they own canada and stuff, do this alexander the great style campaign and invade india and china. Yea off topic, its just another twist on history book, even tho its in the future.
alright i might be able to play this map tonight and if not then over the weekend.

 

[Baldurslayer]

Aloha,

sandwich islands are hawaii, rename to honolulu

It has to remain Sandwich Islands - Turteldove's Sam Carsten character on the USS Dakota would not look kindly on such a change

Drushba

 

[JamesNW]

Point taken Baldurslayer. Although, with Maggie there, I don't think he would have cared one way or the other.
I did change it from "Sandwich Islands" to Honolulu, but it's still under British rule, and Honolulu is the main city so it doesn't make too much difference.
Thanks for the pointer Cheezy, I'll do that in the next version. Aside from that, any sudgestions on the troop placement? I know what I have doesn't really represent the numbers involved in the "Great War", but it wasn't really that great in the begining anyway.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

ok ive checked out your new map you posted, and , like watching a movie again, have noticed more stuff.

Why the hell is there a lone italian ironclad in the north pacific? Is he pulling a 'red october' and defecting to the US?

HOw have you done te techs? Do we start in the mid industrial ages, or is there a whole new tech tree? Also, howcome australia isnt a part of hte UK? i think they got their independence in hte 40s, maybe? i dont know, and any aussies on here i apologize, looks like hte history major needs to study some more, huh?

OKinawa is right longitudinally, but move it over to be dirctly under tokyo.
what are the victory conditions? Shoudl we set house rules? I like house rules, it makes the game much more fun. Heres what i suggest, but again only suggestions.

House rules:
No building units in 'colonies' like africa, east indies, etc.
No razing AI towns, unless it is surely deserved
USA-recapture 3\4 of CSA cities east of mississippi, or grab richmond, alaska, hawaii, and canada, or conquer britain. must own a city in europe
Germany-capture all france and italy, capture cities of London, and posess a line of culture from Germany to Moscow, St Petersburg, and Sevastapol
UK-get back the 13 colonies, and not have germany owning france or scandananvia
France-capture berlin, and prevent capture of London and Italy, or instead of helping italy, capture the cities of New Orleans and Santo Domingo
CSA-capture DC and all USA east of Mississippi, prevent capture of berlin. must own a cit in europe
Russia- capture berlin, prevent capture of London and Paris
Everyone else- stay alive for christ's sake

again im just throwin stuff out here. i said USA and CSA own a city in europe, because i wanted to focus more of their attention on their allies, and not forget about the european war going on. you like?

 

[BrendanM]

Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and South African colonies were all pretty much under dominion status. Most answered the call to war if not all did when Great Britain needed their assistence. So the above mentioned states should all be under British control. A great resource for you JamesNW, would to be look at El Justos Age of Imperialism Deluxe scenario. He basically has all the empires covered so you wouldn't really need to consult any history books unless you wanted, or needed in this case, more city names. That's a rough idea of what was going on at the time and I think it would be the same for Europe even in Harry Turtledove's alternative history books. I think the real focus of your Mod is the battle in North America - I think it's a great idea. Keep working on it, this is a wonderful scenario I'm jealous not to have thought of!

 

[JamesNW]

Yo, cheezy, I think I do have Australia and New Zealand as part of the UK, I have it labeled as Great Britian, but same thing. Also, I don't know how that iron clad got there, it's been deleted. Excellent idea's about the rules. Now, how do I set those up?
Also, thanks for the hint on El-Justino's scenario, I'll take a look at it.

 

[Olorin0222]

Regarding Alaska. I took a little "writer's lib" here. My idea (not spelled out in the book I'm basing this on) is that Alaska was never purchased, and the reasoning is this:
True, Russia offered to sell Alaska to the US during Buchanan's administration(can't remember when exactly) but that was put on hold due to the Civil War. Seward didn't actualy purchase until 1867 (for $7 million), after the war. Then, the purchase only went through the upper house by one vote, and even then convincing the senate was difficult. Seward, at the time, was secratary of state under Abraham Lincoln, who (assuming the war had been lost) would not have been very popular, therfore, not having much in the way of influence to expand the country. The US (recouping from a lost war) would not have been in any position to make the purchase any time in the, then, near future. Gold was found there in the late 1860's, and with even a short delay on the part of the US would have let the Russians be the one's to find it, and been less likely to sell. Also they would have very likely invested more money and people into developing the area (due to the gold) hence my placing more cities there than might normaly represent the population.
Another point was that Russia, at the time (all the way up till the revolution in fact), was decidedly pro-French. With the French (in my timeline) backing the CSA against the US, Russia would have swung to an anti-US sentiment (being pro-French), and possibly withdrawn the offer.

During the Civil War, Russia was decidely pro-North, having just freed their serfs in 1860. Other than that part of the argument, I agree with Russia keeping control of Alaska (unless the British buy it).

This sounds interesting. I'll take a look at it when I get home, and see what I can offer as advice as well.

 

[Serutan]

Olorin is right--At the time of the ACW, Russia was still smarting from the Crimean War with Britain and France, so they were pro Union if for no other reason than they were anti {British, French}. During the real war, Russia vetoed a French proposal for European arbitration, and the Russian Baltic fleet wintered in New York 1863-64.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

really, i didnt know the ruskies were on our side? it makes sense tho. I did know tho that they were kinda on our side in the War of Independence, they put a lot of pressure on Britain, so even if just to get at the UK, they helped us out. Man, im startin to like these russians! Too bad they went red on us.


oh and also about those house rules, James, theyre just rules to be abided by the humans during the game, you cant put them into the game.

 

[JamesNW]

I stand corrected about the Russians.

Thanks for the info. I hadn't really looked that deeply into it. I just knew that French was the "aristocratic" language spoken, and every one in power was all about things French. I did check into it and your right about the pro-north thing. For this game, just to make it interesting, Alaska is Russian so they have a foot hold on the Americas.

About the house rules, that sounds fine to me.
Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Serutan]

James,

I think you're right about Alaska... IIRC there is no mention of it as an American posession in Turtledove's books, and as you say, it makes for interesting gameplay.

 

[Mobilize]

I've read the books in the series and you have a lot of it all wrong.

You have plenty rooms for civilizations.
Divide Spain into Spain & Portugal
Divide Nordic Countries into Sweden, Norway, Denmark, & Netherlands
Divide South & Central America respectively

Where's Austria-Hungary, Belgium, Bulgaria, & Rumania?

Add way more cities, with city name rather than "area" names.

I know where you can put most the armed forces of every single country, and how much needed for the scenario.

Make sure you put plenty of trenches on the Western Front of the European Theatre and in the Great Lakes Theatre and Virginia Theatre of the American Theatre.

Locked Alliances
Alliance 1 (war w/Alliance 2):
U.S.A
Germany
Austria-Hungary
Ottoman Empire

Alliance 2 (war w/Alliance 1):
C.S.A.
Great Britain
France
Belgium
Canada
Russia

You should consider the Deseret in Utah and the Congaree as possible civs.

 

[mjdh1957]

I'm currently reading book 2 of this series and he explicity mentions Russia as having Alaska in one of the scenes set in Hawaii/Pacific.

Is Portugal part of the CSA alliance? It was certainly involved in the real Great War (though not to any great effect). And the USA alliance should include Chile and Paraguay, and the CSA Argentina, with Brazil neutral.

 

[JamesNW]

I'll do that with adding more civs, (Deseret, Portugal, Austria-Hungary, etc.). One question though: how do I add more civs? I changed the names and details on the ones to be used, and deleted the rest. When I try to add a new one, it looks fine in the editor, but when I run it, I get some error, "No File Found '#'". Let me know how to fix that, and I'll add those other civs.

And Mobilize, let me know where to add some of those units, and I'll put them in also. How would you sudgest creating trenches other than the fortesses I have in there now?

 

[JamesNW]

Ok, I got the new civ thing figured out, give me a couple days to get some new civs added, and place some more cities, but help with unit placement is still needed: Advice?

 

[JamesNW]

OK, new list of countries to be in this scenario:
North America
CSA
USA
Mormons
Mexico
Congaree Socialists
Canada
South America
Colombia/Venesuela
Brazil
Paraguay/Uraguay
Argentina
Chile/Peru
Europe
Portugal
Spain
France
Netherlands
Belgium
Denmark
Germany
Serbia/Romania
Russia
Norway
Sweden
Italy
Greece
Great Britan
Austria-Hungary
Asia
Japan
Persia
Ottoman Empire
China
Other
Native Africans