Harvest or Improve?

[SgtScooter]

The answer will change depending on the resource, game speed and turn timer, but I'm wondering at what point in a standard game it is preferable to harvest a resource rather than improve it. It seems like the value of the harvested resource increases over time (depending on the era?) and the available number of turns to work it goes down as the game goes on. but it seems hard to know the exact numbers.

So is there a rule of thumb? Should I just harvest stone, for example, every time after say the Medieval Era? Is the answer different for the other bonus resources?

Assume for the question that we're not worried about district adjacency modifiers.

 

[Sascha77]

Unless we're talking wood, I don't think I would ever harvest a resource.

 

[Gtdead]

I like harvesting stone. Especially if it's not on a hill. I think quarry is a weaker improvement than mines. I also sometimes like harvesting cattle, rice and wheat to force my population beyond the housing limit. But this doesn't happen very often.

 

[KmDubya]

I like to harvest marshes and rainforest, flat dry woods are also good to take out.

Stone quarries work for adjacency bonus for industrial zones so don't clear them till you know where you'll be building them.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I harvest a thing if I want to flatten out some room for an Industrial triangle. Often it's in the middle of a rice field

 

[redeemed371240]

Are lumber mills strong enough to deter chopping woods early on?

 

[Sascha77]

Are lumber mills strong enough to deter chopping woods early on?

Lumber mills on a hill can initially give you up to four hammers/cogs. So, yeah.. they're pretty powerful. With new tech coming in, this increases to 5 cogs IIRC.

Especially woods on hills are a tricky decision early on. Unimproved hill-plains with woods give you three cogs and one food, making them pretty powerful tiles. Grassland is two food and two cogs - also pretty good. I was about to do an early chop on a plains-hill just now but decided against it. Chopping wouldn't have given me that much of a boost, I would've lost a cog *and* the ability to build a lumber-mill later on.

Oh, and BTW: I don't consider chopping "harvesting". After all: Once you have conservation, you can re-plant the woods. I'm pretty sure you can't re-plant wheat, rice or stone.



S.

 

[chazzycat]

There's got to be a point in every game where harvesting is objectively better, just based on basic math. I mean if harvesting gives you 100 cogs and the improvement gives +2 cogs per turn, then you should be harvesting it every time there are less than 50 turns remaining in the game.

I think this is something that will get figured out as people get a better feel for how many more turns are left in a game. That just takes time and repetition.

 

[Onii-chan]

"Harvesting" refers to resources, not features. I.E: stone, wheat etc, not woods or rainforest

In any case I pretty much never harvest anything I'll admit, though I realize I probably should. At least stone in the lategame isn't particularly good anymore because quarries don't scale very well. You're probably better off removing those and building a district or something in its place

As far as removing features go though, removing marsh and getting a free pop is the greatest feeling ever. Rainforest is generally pretty useless unless you're Brazil so chopping those is also a good idea (well the 2/2 hill tiles are good early on but past a certain point you'd rather have a mine there). Wood though... ehh if it's a hill and/or next to a river I'd rather build a lumber mill on it. Regular non-river flatland woods I'd rather chop

 

[Alchemy101]

In a quick read on the Civlopedia, the harvesting yield is +25 for food/production of bonus resources. I loaded my current game (Rome, Standard Speed) to check some of the numbers. I am showing 83 food for cattle & wheat and 83 production for stone. Ironically, in progressed to the next era (Research: Classical, Culture Classical to Medieval) and the yields changed to 88 each.

Additionally, in the interest of full disclosure, my cities are in happy status +10% food, +5% non-food and I have the growth pantheon (+10% growth). However, I do not think these appear to be playing a role. It looks like it might be tied to Era (and perhaps game speed).

 

[Stacked_Deck]

It really comes down to whether a city has an over-abundance of food or production tiles.

If the city has a lot of hills then it's very likely I'll harvest and production resources nearby, mines get significant buffs and hills aren't particular rare.

If it has a lot of flat grassland, or flood plains, then harvesting food tiles post-feudalism gets pretty tempting. It's a significant food boost and if it allows you to fit in some adjacent farms all the better,

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I harvest like crazy. It gets cities jump-started very quickly. Moreover, bonus resources generally are not very good. Compare flat grassland stone to a grassland hill--the hill is just a better tile.

 

[King Jason]

I chop and harvest food resources liberally through out the game, ramping up when Feudalism comes online. I begin the final purge of whatever's left once I have Civil Service. As someone mentioned already, it makes no mathematical sense not to harvest everything eventually. In Civ4 terms, it's the difference between settling a scientist or using it to bulb a tech; You always settle early, and bulb late.

It's the same thing here; Improve some things early, harvest absolutely everything later.

 

[camomilk]

Can you harvest resources in an enemy's territory during wartime? Or in the territory of someone you have open borders with? Or within a friendly city state territory?

 

[KmDubya]

Can you harvest resources in an enemy's territory during wartime? Or in the territory of someone you have open borders with? Or within a friendly city state territory?

In war you can chop your enemies trees down.

With an a suzerian city state you can chop their trees down

 

[Nefelia]

Unless we're talking wood, I don't think I would ever harvest a resource.

Once you get Feudalism and triangle mines working, building farms is objectively better than working cattle or sheep. Harvest those for a nice population boost for new cities.

Similarly, once mines give +2 cogs, stone can be harvested without much of a loss.

Even resources like wheat and rice get harvested later in the game, since a big food harvest brings the population of new cities to 4 or 5 immediately.

Are lumber mills strong enough to deter chopping woods early on?

Remember that lumber mills adjacent to rivers get +1 cog. Don't chop riverside forests unless you really don't need that production.

 

[RealHuhn]

Grassland stone is a pretty bad tile and worth harvesting if the city has enough production from other tiles.
Also, if cows block optimal farm adjacency bonuses it might be best to harvest them instead (in mid game).
If you cannot hit the population eurekas in time, it can be a good idea to boost your biggest city by harvesting wheat or rice.
In late game, it's often very beneficial to kick start new cities by harvesting just because the tile would take forever to give you the same amount of production/food.

 

[Alchemy101]

Can you harvest resources in an enemy's territory during wartime? Or in the territory of someone you have open borders with? Or within a friendly city state territory?

I have only experimented with harvesting in my boarders and in neutral territory (i.e. not city-states, nor friendly/enemy territory). I was only able to harvest unimproved resoures within my boarder. When I noticed I could not hardvest improved tiles (including pillaged improvments), I buldozed and was once again able to harvest.
​

The yields did not correspond to the Civlopedia. I suspect that the yield value might be related to Era.

In a quick read on the Civlopedia, the harvesting yield is +25 for food/production of bonus resources. I loaded my current game (Rome, Standard Speed) to check some of the numbers. I am showing 83 food for cattle & wheat and 83 production for stone. Ironically, in progressed to the next era (Research: Classical, Culture Classical to Medieval) and the yields changed to 88 each.

Additionally, in the interest of full disclosure, my cities are in happy status +10% food, +5% non-food and I have the growth pantheon (+10% growth). However, I do not think these appear to be playing a role. It looks like it might be tied to Era (and perhaps game speed).

 

[Shadeseraph]

I like harvesting stone. Especially if it's not on a hill. I think quarry is a weaker improvement than mines. I also sometimes like harvesting cattle, rice and wheat to force my population beyond the housing limit. But this doesn't happen very often.

stone is fairly common, and one of the better sources of faith through Stone Circles, at least in my experience. I quite like it.

 

[elitetroops]

The yields did not correspond to the Civlopedia. I suspect that the yield value might be related to Era.

Yields go up with techs researched, just like district costs. This actually makes it a somewhat interesting decision when to harvest. But I still think early is probably the best way to go. It should be noted though, that if you chop/harvest into a build that doesn't complete immediately and tech another tech before completing the build, you are losing out on some production compared to if you had harvested after researching the next tech.