Hebrew civilization

[Horizons]

How about the Spiral Minaret? Stonehenge? The Pyramids? The Parthenon? They all have religious tones to them, just like Christ the Redeemer, but you don't see many people getting offended by those.

None of these have the outward appearance of idolatry, except maybe the 'new' statue of Zeus (which is in several of the Warlords scenarios already). They are mostly buildings of great splendour, of significant architectural and cultural worth. I don't want to build a statue of Jesus in my games of Civ. It's like the Age of Mythology game, which had all that sick stuff about gods and mythological beasts. I hated it.

 

[TobyWanKenobi]

Sure. I'm very pro-Israel, and if Saladin-breadsticks can have his own empire, why can't Solomon or David? The Israelites have conquered a lot of people in their time. You name a tribe with the suffix '-ite' in their name, and chances are the 'brewsters have destroyed them.

Ha! Now they have to be in! 'Cause they have an AWESOME nickname! Gooooo 'Brewsters!

 

[flyingchicken]

@Horizons
Well, that's probably your problem; learn to be more tolerant. No offense, though.

If a man prays to his God/s and sets up a shrine in land he owns, let him. If that man prays to his God/s and has a certain bias towards his religion in a computer program he owns, let him. Just enjoy it for its worth.

 

[Yeekim]

The only thing that really distinguishes Israelis/Hebrews and lets us trace today's state of Israel back to kingdom of David, is JUDAISM, a religion already included in the game. Israel has been an independent state less than 200 years altogether, from the first king until modern ages. This is at best very insignificant accomplishment. (Hell, next thing I say there should be Livonian Order included!) There has never been a Jewish empire, so I do not think they deserve a spot.

Comparison to Arabs does not hold, btw. Arabian Kaliphate was huge in its prime.

 

[Maverick667]

The Brewsters reminds me of those guys from Milwaukee

But in all seriousness the Israelites or Hebrews have been an important part of our history. And I mean litteral history not in biblical sense.

The problem is though there hasn't been a Israeli empire for that long, modern or ancient. But the latest modern Empire did have a big impact on the world and still has.

This is the same with the USA which doesn't exist for more than 250 years or so but also has been really important.

So I think time isn't that important, influence is.

 

[kcbrett5]

Judaism goes back before Moses. (How could he rescue the Jews from Egypt if they didn't exist yet?) I think its safe to say that Judaism was founded by the Jews and not by a person, especially since the OT contains references to cultural traditions that actually predate the OT itself. Similarly, the origins of Christianity are not due to a single individual either; but I will admit that the Hebrews didn't collectivley found Christianity- that was due to several individuals of various ethnicities.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all trace back to the same man, Abraham. Its why its a little ironic that these 3 religions are locked in a battle for centuries over their differences.

 

[kcbrett5]

Ha! Now they have to be in! 'Cause they have an AWESOME nickname! Gooooo 'Brewsters!

Does that mean we have to have Punky as a great artist?

 

[TobyWanKenobi]

Personally I think Punky would make a better great general.

 

[Brentimus]

I also would like to see Israel or the Hebrews added as a civilization. Regardless of the unique circumstances surrounding the nations history, the Hebrew people as a religious, racial, or political entity have profoundly impacted the way in which history has unfolded(and are continuing to impact). Whether you want to argue that it is for good, or for bad is another topic. But I don't think there is any good basis for not including them, outside of the prejudices that individuals have put forward.

 

[Saim]

Sure. I'm very pro-Israel, and if Saladin-breadsticks can have his own empire, why can't Solomon or David? The Israelites have conquered a lot of people in their time. You name a tribe with the suffix '-ite' in their name, and chances are the 'brewsters have destroyed them.

Saladin doesn't have his own civ. He was added to Arabs for some reason (he wasn't arab... and didn't lead arabia... WTH?).

 

[Maverick667]

Wasn't Salla'huddin the Arab king/emperor during the second crusade?

If he wasn't than who's king was he?

 

[flyingchicken]

Saladin led the "Egyptian Caliphate," but Arabia in the game refers to the "Arab world" (wiki), representing the medieval versions of the land stretching from Egypt to Arabia united by a common culture shared by their common faith (as common as it was, tolerance reigned--the only price non-Muslims traditionally face is a higher tax rate, as it was).

If he were to be put in Egypt or Persia (because he was a Kurd, after all), then it would be somewhat anachronistic considering that in Saladin's time those places were part of the "Arab world."

 

[Titus001]

Ancient hebrews did have an empire. It was small but it still counts. So yes i think they should be in the expansion. Check the link out. Imperial history in 90 seconds. Its a cool map. The map shows just how long the roman empire lasted if you count the eastern roman empire=byzantines.
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

 

[Brentimus]

Thanks for sharing that Titus. I knew the history of the region but its cool seeing it graphically represented.

 

[Saim]

Saladin led the "Egyptian Caliphate," but Arabia in the game refers to the "Arab world" (wiki), representing the medieval versions of the land stretching from Egypt to Arabia united by a common culture shared by their common faith (as common as it was, tolerance reigned--the only price non-Muslims traditionally face is a higher tax rate, as it was).

If he were to be put in Egypt or Persia (because he was a Kurd, after all), then it would be somewhat anachronistic considering that in Saladin's time those places were part of the "Arab world."

The Mali are part of the Arab world as well

 

[flyingchicken]

In terms of time line, no. Mali became a separate political entity that came with a distinctly African identity a few centuries after Saladin's Caliphate.

Would you like to change your stand on the "Arabicity" of Saladin, or would you like to bring up a point that beats mine?

 

[Saim]

Wait... does that mean the Moors won't be in the game because they are represented by the Arabs? Well that sucks.

 

[flyingchicken]

Yeah, I guess, because they're "medieval Muslims." I don't know about other people, but when I think of "Moor" I always think of knights duking it out with some scimitar-wielding horsemen.

At least we get the Maya and the Native Americans. We can beat them bloody pulps every time we play, because we feel bad that Firaxis included them instead of Hitler and the Jews.

 

[lukedukekiwi]

This isnt intended as a troll...well...maybe just a little, but ill happily support Israel or Hebrews added as a civilizations if they will also add Hitler as a leader for Germany.

 

[Duuk]

Modern Israel could have never won any war without United States. End of discussion. Kingdom of Israel is another story. However Kingdom of Israel only lasted 120 years before it split. So it is still marginal at best. I dont wan't people to post put such and such civ in only because they live in said area of the world and own a computer. You can only put in so many civs in, and only so many deserve to be in.

Your lack of knowledge is stunning. Do they teach history where you're from, or do you mainly get your news from Castro directly teleporting into your brain?