Hell and Heaven

[BugReportage]

In my opinion, if Agares can force his will on neutral and evil lands with hell terrain.
Junil and other "good" Gods can also influence the surrounding lands to attempt to stop the spread of hell terrain. I'm not sure how this would work. Perhaps at AC 50 both good and evil influenced lands would start to spread until both "borders" met. Kind of like culture, and when they meet that would be where the forces of good and evil would have to move in, kill the city that protects those lands so that hell/good lands can continue to push onwards.

So like a culture fight but at least hell terrain doesn't go unchallenged. But I don't think it should be cultural and have 49%/51% I just mean that it's either Hell terrain or it's Good terrain or it's neutral (in which case good or hell would consume it) good terrain=no difference from neutral except it is now under the active protection and influence of a good diety. (I'm sure a neutral god could be convinced that hell terrain sweeping through his domain isn't a good thing)

So in a nutshell:
good terrain=neutral terrain but won't turn to hell terrain unless a condition is met
evil terrain= hell terrain but won't turn to good terrain unless a condition is met

Good and evil terrain losing or winning is a function of the distance a city of good is compared to a city of evil.

Sooooo: if Dis (evil) is 100 spaces from Timberling (good) then at the 50/50 mark there will be a border evident where good and hell terrains meet and can't advance until either Dis is razed or converted or Timberling is razed or converted. Then the advance can continue for either good or evil respectively.

The point being, if Agares can spread his influence like this then why would Junil or any god of "good" sit by and let the world roast? What's Agares going to say if they too start influencing land? "That's not fair?" I don't think so.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I like that idea, and I think it could actually be a lot simpler. giving the mercurian palace an automatic "sanctify" effect like the altar of luonnatar used to would be perfect

 

[Darksaber1]

Hmmm, it would probably not be Junil's influence, but this does sound like it might be a good idea.

 

[abculatter2]

Just to let you know, how hell terrain works is that every tile has a "hell count." When this "hell count" reaches 10, then the tile becomes hell terrain. Every tile next to the tile that's hell terrain increases that tile's "hell count" by 1 every turn, unless the Armageddon counter is below the minimum required to spread to said tile. Also, Infernal land's "hell count" is set to 100.

I like this idea, I think it should be easy to implement with negative "hell count."

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

copy+paste from the "armageddon oddities" thread since this one looks like just the perfect thread for it:

"my gripes with Armageddon and Hell Terrain:

ok, the way hell terrain spreads right now ( first AV, then evil, then neutral, good is immune ) makes sense but I think it could get a tweak from a gameplay perspective... what I don't like here is that good civs are supposed to be the guys that want to get out there and fight against evil, but since they are immune from hell terrain they can just merrily sit there and watch evil civs get overwhelmed with hellish lands. so evil civs get punished for being evil while good civs get rewarded for being good basically. the only guys that get something out of raising the AC are the sheaim, and even for them the benefit is not as huge as you would like...

so I like the way that hell terrain spawns to evil territory first , but I think that preventing the advance of hell should not be a reward just for being good, but for being order ( and maybe empyrean ) . AV civs should get bonuses from hell terrain imho. that way good civs would have a good reason to go order and cleanse the world of evil, and evil civs would have a good reason to "sell their soul to the devil" and go AV. I think this would boost the feeling of "as the end of the world gets closer, you are encouraged to take sides, be it good or evil" and give more conflict and epic battles in the endgame.

btw, mercurians getting angels from good units and infernal getting manes from evil units are another thing that makes a lot of sense but isn't really good gameplay-wise imho... it works great with the AI as they will try to get allies to get involved in wars, and those allies will have units dying and providing them with angels/manes. but in the hands of a human player, it means that mercurians will get a lot of angels by killing GOOD civs while infernals get lots of manes by killing EVIL civs. I guess these two should be switched around. think Basium "redempting" evil units and giving them a chance to purge themselves of sin by aiding in the war against hell, and Hyborem corrupting good units and using them as infernal beings to help into his wicked plan "

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Changing the Good vs Evil into Order vs Veil sounds like a fun change to me.

Edit: And because of the current Ice > Hell, this would still leave AA as the only one who would make a good go of things on his own.

You're right that it is weird to think that a good strategy for the Mercurians is to go kill the good guys first in order to build up troops, and the same with the Infernals vs other evil civs. This happens in other aspects of the game as well though. Elohim's Tolerant trait really isn't any good if you play the nice guy all game. So while it is weird, I don't think there's a good solution to it, without forcing playstyles onto the players. And I definitely think that's a bad idea.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

OT @Keeper_GFA : well tolerant doesn't really fit the Elohim imho, I guess they got it cuz everyone was complaining that they were boring

in FF Elohim have the pacifist trait that gives them -1 attack strength when not in their own cultural borders, and quite a lot of other flavourful changes. they feel quite unique and favour a peaceful playstyle that makes a lot of sense for a monastic civ.

btw, I don't want anyone to get me wrong here. I absolutely LOVE ffh2, I'm just trying to give some constructive criticism. this is the best turn based strategy game available as far as I'm concerned, and the fact that it's still a work-in-progress, while it does have its drawbacks, is actually a good thing imho cuz it means that everyone can toss out ideas to help make it even better