Hello all. Have some/looking for some pointers

[TheMeInTeam]

I've played civ since civ2, but I was just a kid then and employed virtually no strategy (aka warlord was tops for me). I play on noble now for civ 4, and usually win unless I try something new and outlandishly stupid.

As for my pointers, they're for newer players than me even. The first is to play the game in a way that makes it fun for you (otherwise why play it?). The second is that until you hit noble difficulty, you have an advantage over the AI. On the lowest settings, you can literally automate everything, employ basic diplomacy, and steamroll the AI anyway. I don't recommend doing this very long, as you won't survive at higher difficulties, but if you want to see in person how the AI reacts to things, what style of play you prefer, and so on, nobody is going to hate you for automating your workers in the first 5-10 games.

Ah yes, one final tip. If you have an aggressive or protective civ, you can beeline bronze working for slavery and just MASS warriors or archers respectively. A barracks is your first building, then out comes the whip asap. Hitting 1-2 nearby rivals with 6-8 archers or 9-12 warriors (with the cover promotion) is usually successful. You can then build your capital normally and clean those civs up using their downed capitals and whipping. Don't try this after noble though...its odds of success drop dramatically.

Now my dilemma. I've never won on Prince, despite winning EVERY victory type on a standard noble map (even conquest, thanks to vassals. Coolest ending IMO). And no, I don't attempt the above tip (unless I'm Incan). I'm virtually certain my problem lies with my earlygame, since that's when micro and decision making weigh the heaviest.

I figure to rush the AI i'll typically need the metals/horses I've scouted out. What usually happens regardless, however, is that I fall very far behind in score/tech if I rush someone, but stay fairly weak if I don't and still a bit behind in tech. I think I've relied far too much on smacking neighbors around in earlier difficulties, giving an advantage that hid otherwise weak play.

Right now, I'll just ask for some general pointers from people who've made the noble ---> prince jump or the prince ----> monarch jump. As this is my first post and first time on the forums, I don't have any useful save-games or screenies yet that would allow specific advice. Thanks.

 

[Kennigit]

I think the biggest key to prince difficulty is just thinking about the why of every action and to play a lot of games to familiarize yourself. Why rush an AI with slaved axes if you have plenty of romm to expand? Why bother to build a bunch of wonders if you have 2 or 3 floodplain cities nearby that can be cottaged and lead to you dominating the AI's in tech? Why build an academy with a Great Scientist instead of lightbulbing something? I'm pretty confident that anyone, within just 10-20 games, can easily work their way from noble -> monarch if they just run a nice and simple CE, run diplomacy intelligently, and focus on solid core cities and tech. Its probably easier on noble->monarch to get a tech lead and rush with catapults instead of slaving a bunch of early units. Even if the AI gets feudalism, catapults and maces used intelligently will wipe out an AI quicker and more efficient than trying to slave for early rushes, which means you have less population in your core cities, a harder time getting your tech rate up, and a harder time being able to trade techs early on.

 

[Verge]

Right now, I'll just ask for some general pointers from people who've made the noble ---> prince jump or the prince ----> monarch jump. As this is my first post and first time on the forums, I don't have any useful save-games or screenies yet that would allow specific advice. Thanks.

Since I don't know the specifics of how you play each of your games, I'll just give some general advice that may or may not apply:


Build at least a handful of cottage-heavy commerce cities.

Rush intelligently; take military action on a case-by-case basis.

Build wonders sparingly, or not at all.


Let me know if I'm on the right track advice-wise, and I can elaborate further as needed. And welcome to CFC!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think the biggest key to prince difficulty is just thinking about the why of every action and to play a lot of games to familiarize yourself. Why rush an AI with slaved axes if you have plenty of romm to expand? Why bother to build a bunch of wonders if you have 2 or 3 floodplain cities nearby that can be cottaged and lead to you dominating the AI's in tech? Why build an academy with a Great Scientist instead of lightbulbing something? I'm pretty confident that anyone, within just 10-20 games, can easily work their way from noble -> monarch if they just run a nice and simple CE, run diplomacy intelligently, and focus on solid core cities and tech. Its probably easier on noble->monarch to get a tech lead and rush with catapults instead of slaving a bunch of early units. Even if the AI gets feudalism, catapults and maces used intelligently will wipe out an AI quicker and more efficient than trying to slave for early rushes, which means you have less population in your core cities, a harder time getting your tech rate up, and a harder time being able to trade techs early on.

Makes sense. You can hold a tech lead in Monarch that easily? Seems I have a ways to go...

Cultural D is a !@#$ before cats (and whipping an army does hurt), so that certainly seems logical to me. Looks like I better revisit my city management and focus on beakers.

I tend to lightbulb already, unless its an un-needed religious tech later on in the game that would be lightbulbed. Might find a better use for that GP, like a golden age or a shrine.

I see alot on this forum about core cities. My understanding of this is around 6 cities, with improvements and buildings that specialize them. I know there are production cities, commerce cities, science cities and a GP farm, but how do I balance the # of these and so on?

Also, after my core cities, the AI usually has automated worker cottage spam. Is it necessary to actually re-do these cities to win, or can I get away with just focusing on my core, and letting the idiot civs run themselves after I take them? I never automate workers early game, but late game when I seem to have 135098712098 between what I've stolen and built, it seems like such a bother. I usually just automate them and instruct them not to improve over existing improvements.

 

[Kennigit]

First I'd like to point out acouple things- I'm not an expert and typically play huge maps on emperor/immortal (besides the GOTMs). Map size makes a huge difference in stratedgies, so when I talk about room to expand I'm considering Large/Huge continent games as opposed to standard or small pangaea games.

I guess what I was trying to get at more is that for a CE in my experience, efficiency is the key for any war. Ideally, you want to work the most cottages possible, which means that every war distracts from that by shifting your focus from commerce->production. Rushes early on, with swords and axes, means you have little time to develop cottages, while if you are able to get to the construction jump or to an early machinery/civil service, your wars will be shorter when attacking a weak AI nearby. Catapults greatly reduce the amount of units needed in a war, and the collateral damage makes it much easier for even swords to kill longbows. This makes the wars shorter and have a less dramatic impact on your economy.

As for core cities, I personally take an all cottage approach- cottages on every square possible. Usually I go from BW straight to pottery, so that I can chop out an early REX and get cities up to immediately cottage. Barbarians can be avoided with a simple combination of fog-busting and with either archers or more often the chariots/axes that are opened up from the early expansion (generally gets atleast 1 resource). I typically go for Monarchy very early on, which cures any happiness problems, and almost never use whipping because it slows down the path towards monarchy (less cottages are worked). But of course, this is all theory, and its still best to just play a lot of games and work out a simple early stratedgy- I can't think of a simpler stratedgy than early expansion + cottages for new players, and that stratedgy works up until atleast immortal and as DaveMcW can prove, deity. Just focus on acouple river cites to be cottaged, be smart about diplomacy, and if any wars are needed you can pick on the weak AI's with any tech lead you build up.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Thanks for the advice. I actually prefer canned, cookie cutter suggestions like bronze working ----> pottery ----> monarchy ----> construction and such.

While obviously thought and refinement are important, just seeing something along the right lines and practicing it allows me to see the subtleties and figure out how adaptation will benefit the approach.

 

[CivMcNut]

I kind of feel like the way to get ahead real good of the AI is to focus on building up your capital during the opening phases of the game. If there are lots of trees research Bronze Working, if there is ivory or fur research hunting, if there's cows and pigs research AH, if there's lots of floodplains and or rivered grasslands research pottery. If you can start reaping in these early resources right away your capital will start researching faster, produce more and be able to get larger without having unrest/slowed growth.

Once that capital is going good, I found other cities in spots where the resources would help my strategy out the most. Spamming warriors from whipping to fight the AI will result in some bad outcome on higher difficulty level. When you go to fight them they usually have City Garrison promoted archers and it will probably take 3 or 4 warriors to bring down one archer.

What helps is getting some sort of sword/axe/spear/charriot/horse archer mixture of troops and mass enough of them up where you can just plow right through the archers that will likely be defending.

 

[LlamaCat]

I think I've relied far too much on smacking neighbors around in earlier difficulties, giving an advantage that hid otherwise weak play.

Right now, I'll just ask for some general pointers from people who've made the noble ---> prince jump or the prince ----> monarch jump. As this is my first post and first time on the forums, I don't have any useful save-games or screenies yet that would allow specific advice. Thanks.

I think once you get to Prince you can't box yourself into thinking you have to rush someone every game. The difficulty level is such that it forces you to adapt to the map, settings, other AIs, etc, etc.... I think on Noble if you have the basic concepts of the game down, you can force a win in most situations.
Lay down more cottages and work them early and often, it helps with research a lot on Prince level vs. Noble. Sure you can try to be fancy and have specialist farms, if the terrain warrants it, but make sure to work some cottages elsewhere.

 

[Diamondeye]

I've just won my first Prince game, usually play on noble, so I might be of assistance. I have some basic pointers based on the Original post.
If you lack advantage, maybe even after a rush, be sure that you have anough workers, and run enough cottages (or specialists if SE). My Prince game was with Willem (randomed) and I went cottage-crazy. I even cottaged nearly all grasshills, and I had some nice gemmines. What I think is wrong is that your bottom line is too low.

Mistake number two could be not techtrading enough. I always tech trade almost feverishly with the AI, and I am willing to accept paying more than a tech is worth as long as I am giving something non-crucial away. Adopt diplomacy and techtrading more, and you might catch on even if your GNP drops after early conquest.

Reason number three could be that you do not plan ahead concerning techtree. Certains techs are crucial, especially earlygame (Pottery, BW, Alph and CoL comes to mind). Also, play some games and get the feel for what the different AI personalities are like.

Just my 3

EDIT

It also sounds like you are whipping alot. Try a game without Slavery at all, as an experiment (I usually play without Slavery and I do fine on Prince). The reason for your backdropping could be the reduced amount of - and therefore worked tiles, and therefore , that you have, compared to the AI (that on Prince has a bonus, AFAIK). Slavery might bring in hammers, but you will be lacking , therefore, you might be doing well militarily, but lack tech.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've just won my first Prince game, usually play on noble, so I might be of assistance. I have some basic pointers based on the Original post.
If you lack advantage, maybe even after a rush, be sure that you have anough workers, and run enough cottages (or specialists if SE). My Prince game was with Willem (randomed) and I went cottage-crazy. I even cottaged nearly all grasshills, and I had some nice gemmines. What I think is wrong is that your bottom line is too low.

Mistake number two could be not techtrading enough. I always tech trade almost feverishly with the AI, and I am willing to accept paying more than a tech is worth as long as I am giving something non-crucial away. Adopt diplomacy and techtrading more, and you might catch on even if your GNP drops after early conquest.

Reason number three could be that you do not plan ahead concerning techtree. Certains techs are crucial, especially earlygame (Pottery, BW, Alph and CoL comes to mind). Also, play some games and get the feel for what the different AI personalities are like.

Just my 3

EDIT

It also sounds like you are whipping alot. Try a game without Slavery at all, as an experiment (I usually play without Slavery and I do fine on Prince). The reason for your backdropping could be the reduced amount of - and therefore worked tiles, and therefore , that you have, compared to the AI (that on Prince has a bonus, AFAIK). Slavery might bring in hammers, but you will be lacking , therefore, you might be doing well militarily, but lack tech.

Well, I generally avoid the whip unless I'm pressing hard with axes (or worse ). As a former civ 3 guy i still <3 pottery and given the cost of cities in civ4 i quickly learned to prioritize COL too. Only recently did I learn how powerful monarchy is to a CE, so i'm starting to prioritize that.

I do try to tech trade, but my diplomacy is often too weak. I almost never found an early religion and spread it, though I occasionally convert to manipulate relations. I generally beeline certain military techs which give me an advantage. Getting cavalry vs longbows is a terrible joke and gamebreaking if managed. I've yet to manage it on prince, and yet some people have infantry (!) by that time. Almost every post on this page has encouraged me to emphasize commerce further one way or another (usually adapting my play depending on the map and opponents, which i'll of course try and get better at). Since I don't tend to whore GP so much I'm going to listen to this suggestion. I'm at school right now and posting when i get bored from doing homework (i'm in grad school, no class doesn't mean no school ). I'm playing a bit of civ here too, but without a mouse it's very frustrating...so i'll do more once i've returned home late tonight.

Once again, thank everyone here for the help (and fast help at that!). One of the reasons I joined this forum is that the community seems great. Once I get enough skill i'll participate more .

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Thanks for the advice. I actually prefer canned, cookie cutter suggestions like bronze working ----> pottery ----> monarchy ----> construction and such.

Worker / Work Boat first.
Research the techs necessary to improve your Capital's resources first.

That's about as canned as it gets. Everything else is subjective based on leader, map type, map size, game speed, civilization, neighbors, victory condition, difficulty level, etc.​

If you wanna have some fun below Monarch, build 4 Warriors (3 + your starting Warrior) and rush the nearest neighbor's capital.

 

[Gooblah]

Early Rushing becomes important to solve diplomatic problems and to get a land advantage. Also, "Worker First" becomes important as well. It allows you to hook up the resources near, since starting health/happiness bonuses become less. Aside from that, get ready for the AI's bonuses to increase. I believe its an extra starting unit and production/research bonuses.

 

[Verge]

Thanks for the advice. I actually prefer canned, cookie cutter suggestions like bronze working ----> pottery ----> monarchy ----> construction and such.

I just gave you 3 in this thread's third post

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes indeed. I'm obsessive about improving at things once I'm into them. I assure you, your tips (along with everyone else's) were not missed. I intend to beat prince this weekend, one way or another.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well, thanks to you guys I did as promised and beat Prince. Now, before I got my garbage cultural win I had 63.4% of 64% land needed to dominate a map in the game before! The problem was that it's a continents map, and there are three civs on the only remaining landmass in the game, they're all one religion, and all have a defensive pact. I couldn't get a beachhead there...even trying different things in my preparation leading up to the war (there would be no bribing them to hurt relations apparently). They just had too many units at equal tech and I just couldn't take and hold any cities against all the artillery, infantry, tanks, and so forth. One of them would invariable build the ship while the other two kept me plenty busy.

Still, I took everyones advice into that game and soundly dominated 2 entire continents. In hindsight, I should have left hatty alone and gone for the budha buddies before they consolidated and became unbeatable. Hatty might have pressed the space race a little earlier, but the budha buddies had more land...and it's not like I needed that much more .

I might have the save of before I massively steamrolled hatty with fresh infantry vs her rifles and...catapults (I beelined to catch up after crushing england and france, but wound up getting a superior unit several turns early in force before she could upgrade...thanks to a powerful economy.) She had marines by the end of the fight, but 3-4 marines don't beat 40 infantry.

If if have the save, instead of attacking hatty i'll go for the other continent. I'll also post it if i can figure out how. This game has something very rare for me...a fullscale intercontinental invasion using galleons.