HELP: Can't win on Monarch:(

[Zahariev]

Hello to all the fans of this great game. I'm having a lot of difficulties playing on the Monarch level. I play the base game, not the add-ons...
I have the feeling I'm not doing something right. Please tell me where my mistakes are. I usually play on huge map - continents or Pangea. On Prince I play well and I win most of the times, but I want to move to the next level. I'll try to point out the major difficulties and the style of play I have:

1. Usually I play with Genghis Khan. When the game starts I prefer this way - build a scout >worker >barracks >archer> settler. Then I build grannaries in the two cities. Then more archers to stop the barbarians. After that another settler. Then I go for Keshiks, libraries and etc...

2. I always go for the Oracle and then get Bronze working or Code of laws. The Oracle then stays my only Wonder for a lot of time, maybe until Oxford Uni or Wall Street.

3. In the beginning I built a lot of cottages. Of course first I deal with the resources... I use one worker for 2 cities. When I can, I use 1 worker for 1 city...

4. I have a favourite way of placing my cities and I always place them like this - on the fifth square from the other city. Lets say my capital is in central position, then I have cities 5 squares up, down, left, right, and the 4 diagonales (also 5 squares diagonally from the capital). That makes 9 cities. I always try to create 9 cities - never less, never more...

5. I try to use at least 80% from my money for research. But still on Monarch I'm always behind my rivals. I don't know how they get so many points and technologies!!!

6. I always build all the possible buildings in every city. So bassicly all my cities have all the buildings that I'm allowed to build... First I try to build libraries, forges, courthouses, theaters and markets...

7. I don't built large armies, I always go for a quite victory (I have the feeling that on Monarch difficulty it will be hard). Usually 2 Archers or Keshiks stationed in a city.

8. From the civics I prefer Hereditary Rule and then jump directly to Universal Suffrage. From Barbarism I go to Nationhood and stay with it all the game. From Tribalism I go to Serfdom and then to Emancipation. From Decentralization, then Free Market and then Environmentalism. From Paganism I jump directly to Free Religion. I try to combine them so that I don't loose too many days in anarchy...

Basically this is the way that I play. I've been trying for over a month to win a victory on Monarch difficulty, but I can't. I'm really desperate. I tried to change some of my tactis, but it got worse. I really don't know where my mistakes are. I will be REALLY grateful if you can point out at least 1 or 2 things that I must change in my game.
Thank you...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

One thing immediately jumps out - you go from barbarism to nationhood? Nationhood is a civic for drafting large numbers of units for warring. You want to adopt bureaucracy as soon as it becomes available.

 

[Krazy]

Well, I haven't won on Monarch either (come close) but I can still suggest some things

City placement should be done to maximise resources not to a nice geometric pattern and in general more cities are better. Land = power and all that.

You certainly need to specialize cities more based on the resources around, ie those that can get lots of hammers or one that would be more suited to raising cash and then only build the things that enhance those attributes. Building everything in every city is wasting hammers.

By going for a cultural victory or space race you are not using your Aggressive trait nor your Unique Unit. It might be worth building a large army and taking out a neighbour or two for their nicer cities - generates cash for research too.

 

[DaveMcW]

6. I always build all the possible buildings in every city. So bassicly all my cities have all the buildings that I'm allowed to build... First I try to build libraries, forges, courthouses, theaters and markets...

Stop that. You don't need ANY buildings to win.

Only build stuff that supports what the city is doing RIGHT NOW.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Addressing some of your numbered points too...

1) OK, everyone has favourite leaders. Adapting to the map is more important than adapting to the leader though.
2) Consider switching wonders around a bit. If you see stone, get the pyramids. The Great Library is probably the best earlyish wonder.
3) Good idea (EDIT: aiming for 1 worker per city), sometimes 2 workers to improve the capital early on is good though. You should aim to not work any unimproved tiles.
4) Place cities in the best location for them, not because they look neat.
5) More land = more cottages (I sound like DaveMcW now). Expand more if you are running 80% research. Also, trade techs. The AI gets a bonus teching at Monarch level.
6) Specialise cities. Production centres don't need a library or markets/grocers (unless you need them to raise health/happy caps).
7) If you look weak you will get attacked.
8) See my post above. Religious techs are good too (organised religion to build all those buildings quicker, theocracy for war, pacifism for great people). EDIT: Oh, and slavery is good for producing buildings and units in low production cities (probably the best early civic). Serfdom is pretty lame.

 

[homeyg]

Notice how you say that "I always do this" or "I always do that".

This is what's wrong. You don't get to really know the game unless you expiriment, not only a little, but alot, with different things.

 

[madscientist]

Welcome to the the forums.

1. Usually I play with Genghis Khan. When the game starts I prefer this way - build a scout >worker >barracks >archer> settler. Then I build grannaries in the two cities. Then more archers to stop the barbarians. After that another settler. Then I go for Keshiks, libraries and etc...

Good leader for warring. You should be teching bronze working earlier and not waiting for myst/med/priesthood. Make sure you get at least one early food tech.

2. I always go for the Oracle and then get Bronze working or Code of laws. The Oracle then stays my only Wonder for a lot of time, maybe until Oxford Uni or Wall Street.

See above. The Heroic and National epics are valuable, and should come earlier than Oxford. Nothing wrong with a few wonders from old GK but that's his expertise.

3. In the beginning I built a lot of cottages. Of course first I deal with the resources... I use one worker for 2 cities. When I can, I use 1 worker for 1 city...

Sounds fie, corraging is a sound strategy

4. I have a favourite way of placing my cities and I always place them like this - on the fifth square from the other city. Lets say my capital is in central position, then I have cities 5 squares up, down, left, right, and the 4 diagonales (also 5 squares diagonally from the capital). That makes 9 cities. I always try to create 9 cities - never less, never more...

Problem. Settle where you can make the best use of resoruces, worker improvements, block off the AI.

5. I try to use at least 80% from my money for research. But still on Monarch I'm always behind my rivals. I don't know how they get so many points and technologies!!!

80% is a decent rule of thumb but I would be building more cities. 60% slider with more cities may be getting you more research. Also get techs from trades and off bulbing from those great people. Example, bulb philosophy and see how many techs you can get!

6. I always build all the possible buildings in every city. So bassicly all my cities have all the buildings that I'm allowed to build... First I try to build libraries, forges, courthouses, theaters and markets...

Specialize your cities, no need for everything in all cities. libraries/universities in the cities with most science. Forges in you production cities. culture building on your borders with AIs.

7. I don't built large armies, I always go for a quite victory (I have the feeling that on Monarch difficulty it will be hard). Usually 2 Archers or Keshiks stationed in a city.

WHAT??? You are the Mighty Khan man, go build an army and smash some heads. That's what he does. Take the AIs other cities, call them your own. target those shrined holy cities if close by. IF you don't do that your pretty much wasting his talents.

8. From the civics I prefer Hereditary Rule and then jump directly to Universal Suffrage. From Barbarism I go to Nationhood and stay with it all the game. From Tribalism I go to Serfdom and then to Emancipation. From Decentralization, then Free Market and then Environmentalism. From Paganism I jump directly to Free Religion. I try to combine them so that I don't loose too many days in anarchy...

USe more civics. Bureacracy is great if you have a heavily cottaged capital or a production powerhouse. slavery is great for whipping building or units early, don't worry about complaining citizans, they will get over it. Religion civics are very helpfull too.

Basically this is the way that I play. I've been trying for over a month to win a victory on Monarch difficulty, but I can't. I'm really desperate. I tried to change some of my tactis, but it got worse. I really don't know where my mistakes are. I will be REALLY grateful if you can point out at least 1 or 2 things that I must change in my game.
Thank you...

To become good you gotta have a little flexibility in your play style. And play other leaders. I am assuming your playing Beyond the Sword as we are all CivFanatics and must have the latest.

There are alot of good articles for advice and limitless walkthoughs of example games. Sistual's ALCs areexceptionally good.

Enjoy

 

[ParadigmShifter]

He says he's playing base game, no add-ons mad. We call that vanilla round these parts Zahariev, just to confuse people

 

[madscientist]

The GK with the expansive trait is a decent enough peaceful leader.

All the advice still holds though, excpet nationalism in Vanilla is weak.

 

[Zahariev]

Thank you all for the answers. I will try everything you suggested. Just one more thing - about point 1 - is the way I start the game good enough. I mean the building order - scout, worker, barracks, archer, settler. I think I'm a bit slow in the beginning...
By the way - the city building system I use (on the 5th square from the capital) doesn't waste land, because like this each city has 21 tiles to work on...

 

[Xurr]

Thank you all for the answers. I will try everything you suggested. Just one more thing - about point 1 - is the way I start the game good enough. I mean the building order - scout, worker, barracks, archer, settler. I think I'm a bit slow in the beginning...
By the way - the city building system I use (on the 5th square from the capital) doesn't waste land, because like this each city has 21 tiles to work on...

take out the barracks. You don't need that in the very beginning.

My build order is usually something like this.

worker, warrior/archers until happy cap( 5 pop) settler, worker, worker, settler after the second settler you can switch your capital to building an early wonder and have your second city(assuming you made it a production city) build more units, workers and settlers.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

By the way - the city building system I use (on the 5th square from the capital) doesn't waste land, because like this each city has 21 tiles to work on...

Are those the best tiles you can work for a city though? Food (EDIT: and resources) is the most important thing to have, do all your cities grow to size 20?

 

[absimiliard]

I agree with HomeyG.

I'm seeing way too much orthodoxy in your rules. You ALWAYS do this, or build exactly nine, never more, never less cities. You always place cities the same distance.

Many of your rules seem solid. Many others have circumstances where they are invalid. A few are right out bad ideas in some situations. But all, ALL, of them share the same basic flaw.

That flaw is that you always obey them.

I have found that to learn new things you need to try new things. This will occasionally involve failure, sometimes it will involve exceptional success, most of the time it will merely be different. But no matter what, you learn new things. You learn when to build which building in what city, and thus spare yourself the massive expenditure of production you incur by insisting on building all buildings in all cities for example. (Occasionally you'll discover entirely new strategies, like when Obsolete introduced a bunch of us to the Settled Specialist Economy.)

But regardless of specifics, remember this one thing, if you remember anything at all.

Rigid rules-sets will not make you a good Civ player. To improve, you must try new things and break rules.

Good luck.

-abs

 

[Duke Anselmi]

Hello!

I've learned too that jump from prince to monarch is a big step, but not biggest i think (warlord-noble propably biggest) personally i can make it to victory on monarch, but with quite bad score, so i still prefer prince, still i can give you some advice:

1. Why genghis khan?! From what you said, i got image that you dont do warmongering, and thats what genghis is really for, being one of the greatest warmongering leaders with his traits and UU. For peacefull game, choose your leader more carefully.
2. Build all buildings in all cities?! Why? You should specialize your cities to do what best for. You should always have atleast one commerce city (GP farm or cottages) and some production cities, and one city that pumps out military (atleast if you do warmongering). So dont waste hammers building unusefull buildings. For example, commerce city doesnt need barracks, forge, etc. but library is a must have and production cities need forge and propably barracks. Jack of all trade cities are not very usefull, but you still need some of them, capital is normally good for this.
3. Like paradigmfighter mentioned, you should choose your civics more carefully. Nationhood is for building armies, and theres many usefull civics between paganism and free religion.
4. ever tried SE? (specialist economy) Search and article for it, read carefully and try, at middle difficulties it works really well. You should also try HE (hybrid economy, combined cottages and specialists).

Theres some advice for beginning, good luck playing monarch

 

[Duke Anselmi]

Edit: sorry, posted same reply twice because of lack Welcome to forums Zahariev ;D