Help! Espionage Dogpile

[Yudishtira]

I'm trying to keep on a level with the AIs re espionage, but two major civs have their entire espionage output on me - 9000EP between them with me in Renaissance. I'm trying not to use the slider because I'd like to gain ground in tech or at least not lose any more. So I've got all but three of my 48 cities building espionage, and it's not enough.

Any ideas? Should I ignore it with the attitude: what's the worst that could happen?... Maybe I should attack them, but (up till now anyway) that's not my style - I don't feel that provoked. And one of them is in the Modern era, so...

 

[Toffer90]

I'm trying to keep on a level with the AIs re espionage, but two major civs have their entire espionage output on me - 9000EP between them with me in Renaissance. I'm trying not to use the slider because I'd like to gain ground in tech or at least not lose any more. So I've got all but three of my 48 cities building espionage, and it's not enough.

Any ideas? Should I ignore it with the attitude: what's the worst that could happen?... Maybe I should attack them, but (up till now anyway) that's not my style - I don't feel that provoked. And one of them is in the Modern era, so...

Increase the espionage weight on them within the espionage advisor, you shouldn't invest the same percentage of your total espionage into all rival civs, small rivals can have low weight and large rivals big weight.

If there are 4 AI's and you produce 100 EP each turn, the default is that you invest 25 EP against each of the 4 AI's
The weight is set to 1 for all of them (1,1,1,1).

If you increase the weight on one of them to 2, then it will be 2,1,1,1 totaling 5.
You will then invest 40 EP against the rival that has its weight set to 2; and 20 points towards each of the other three.

 

[Yudishtira]

Increase the espionage weight on them within the espionage advisor, you shouldn't invest the same percentage of your total espionage into all rival civs, small rivals can have low weight and large rivals big weight.

If there are 4 AI's and you produce 100 EP each turn, the default is that you invest 25 EP against each of the 4 AI's
The weight is set to 1 for all of them (1,1,1,1).

If you increase the weight on one of them to 2, then it will be 2,1,1,1 totaling 5.
You will then invest 40 EP against the rival that has its weight set to 2; and 20 points towards each of the other three.

Believe it or not, I know the toddler basics of the espionage screen. I'm not trying to put 5000EP per turn on every AI.

I can see how many EP each AI has on me, and I'm trying to match that. Many of them are way behind me, so I'm not putting any on them.

I can also see how many EP each AI put on me last turn, and when we are close to equilibrium, I try to match that the following turn.

But I am only one civ, and more than one of them has their entire output on me (as can be seen in the 'Spy vs Spy' tab).

 

[Toffer90]

Even though you are familiar with that advice, it is still sound advice for those who are not, and also 100% relevant to the thread topic. I did not assume whether you knew or not before responding, so if you felt offended, please don't.

If you are the score leader then you can forget about beating everyone in espionage, it is close to impossible to beat everyone when everyone is trying to beat you specifically.
Someone lower in the score list has a better chance at beating everyone even if having a lower EP output than others.

AI target major rivals more with espionage, and can often ignore, or react weakly, if a smaller team beats them in espionage. Though each AI, regardless of their score, will react to being out-espionaged by any other team regardless of their score too.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is always the option to use torture... in medieval and beyond anyhow.

 

[Yudishtira]

As it happens I'm 3rd in score, although I am the power leader, so could they be basing it on that? I'm certainly not the only threat, so the fact they feel they can afford to put all or virtually all their EPs on me almost seems like anti-human vendetta...

 

[Yudishtira]

There is always the option to use torture... in medieval and beyond anyhow.

Can you expand on that please? Does it require captives? Which device building(s) are best value? How much impact can it have?

That reminds me of something I should have mentioned: I have a few Cutthroats and Scoundrels constantly shuffling to a nearby AI city performing the espionage mission. One that I took note of netted 4000EP, so it's almost equivalent to 1 turn's worth of 'normal' EP (although 800EP at other times seems to be the typical 'return').

 

[Toffer90]

As it happens I'm 3rd in score, although I am the power leader, so could they be basing it on that? I'm certainly not the only threat, so the fact they feel they can afford to put all or virtually all their EPs on me almost seems like anti-human vendetta...

Yes, the threat estimation of other rivals is a bit more complicated than just simply the score. But score is a good estimation of what player an AI would target, they target neighbours more than far away civs too as that is part of the threat evaluation.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Can you expand on that please? Does it require captives? Which device building(s) are best value? How much impact can it have?

That reminds me of something I should have mentioned: I have a few Cutthroats and Scoundrels constantly shuffling to a nearby AI city performing the espionage mission. One that I took note of netted 4000EP, so it's almost equivalent to 1 turn's worth of 'normal' EP (although 800EP at other times seems to be the typical 'return').

The torture buildings which require a castle, dungeon, torture chamber then you can access them (they're creepy af though) are very strong in adding a lot of espionage BUT come at a high price.

Those infiltrate missions on criminals and spies are always a good way to beef your espionage against opponents as well, yes.

 

[tmv]

There are the punishment buildings, the towers, some special buildings like messenger doves IIRC, the @Thunderbrd Chief Hut, and I think there are specialists who increase as well.