Help! I think I've forgotten how to run a cottage economy.

[george547]

Shortly after I had my first ever finished game (I remember it was a space race win on noble using Hannibal; this was some time ago, and I have since had to reinstall Windows, losing the data) I decided it was about damn time I learned to run a specialist economy, because a lot of leaders I had really wanted to like, for a long time (Alexander, Pericles, Lincoln, Frederick, possibly also Peter) have the philosophical trait and I thought it'd be good to learn how to run a specialist economy as a part of learning to play those leaders to the fullest.

So, I learned, and I got pretty good at it, I guess. I got libraries up in my research/great person farm city (usually, but not necessarily, my capital) ASAP, I would prioritize the Great Library above any other wonder, and sometimes I would even manage to get the Pyramids. I would get as many religions as I could in that city and build a monastery for each. I was getting great people at rates I never thought possible before. I'd build the academy with my first great scientist, and if I did manage to get the Pyramids and run representation, I'd later settle great scientists and see entire turns melt off whatever I was researching thanks to insane research multipliers. In one game, I had a mere two cities and yet I was the leader of the tech race for quite some time.

So then last night I decided I'd start a new game and try using a non-philosophical leader and run a cottage economy, primarily. Where did I find myself?

Well, instead of leading the tech race, I was lagging behind. By the early years AD, my capital was still still just like any other city, no crown jewel of the world as my previous specialist cities that would have the Oracle, the Great Library, and sometimes the Pyramids. I got beat to two wonders I really could have gotten a lot of use out of--the Colossus and the Great Lighthouse--which made me think that I was forgetting how to navigate the tech tree between the early worker techs and feudalism/civil service because I was so used to getting aesthetics/literature relatively early.

This debauchery of a game might have just been a poor start on my part (my civilization was founded on a thin, far south (a little further south and it would have been ice) peninsula, and I was nearly boxed in by Tokugawa, but the point is, he was also beating me in every other aspect of the game. I got my cottages up and running pretty early, but no dice, and I only had about five or six cottages in my first two cities each. Production in each city was passable. So was food. Commerce/research, not so much... so, anyone want to give me tips on how to run a COTTAGE economy?

 

[Samuel_996]

The eternal answer is 'play the map'. Take a look at your surroundings before you decide to use cottages; rivers are good, plains are bad.
Prioritize monarchy or calendar for raising your happiness cap so you can work more cottages. Remember which techs raise the output of cottages (namely Printing Press, Democracy for US and Emancipation, Liberalism for Free Speech).

Also, make sure you still have a GP farm (academy in the capital pre-1AD whenever possible, also useful for bulbing to Lib) and military production cities, rather than just mindless cottage spam.

 

[stopstopp]

Cottages!

 

[Metzi]

Play the Map.
or
You can try a cottage Economy. By trying it you learn 2 things:
1) Where to build them,
2) Why you build them.

These are 2 key statements when building any improvement.

I also find that SE economy's are INCEREADIBLY powerfull early on, but post reineisance a CE becomes better.
I tend to SE while cottaging, this I can switch to the more 'powerfull' one per era.

 

[stopstopp]

I also find that SE economy's are INCEREADIBLY powerfull early on, but post reineisance a CE becomes better.
I tend to SE while cottaging, this I can switch to the more 'powerfull' one per era.

That really depends on how much land you have. The more land you have, the more powerful a CE is.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Play the Map.
or
You can try a cottage Economy. By trying it you learn 2 things:
1) Where to build them,
2) Why you build them.

These are 2 key statements when building any improvement.

I also find that SE economy's are INCEREADIBLY powerfull early on, but post reineisance a CE becomes better.
I tend to SE while cottaging, this I can switch to the more 'powerfull' one per era.

Only england gets the stock exchange, and the space elevator tends to suck in all eras.

Specs are good early on because of the massive returns you can work off GPP. However, it's not quite accurate that cottages run away in renaissance. Rep + bio and caste/guild/chem workshops in state property are both viable alternatives, and unlike cottages bio farms and workshops need not grow.

Running one vs the other is really a question of tile distribution and available land. Don't shy away from cottages in places that won't be able to farm GPs ever and don't have good alternatives (no mines for building units/wealth/research). Cottage commerce +50% base in bureaucracy is nice too, although I've found that I need to use less bur so that I'm more apt to survive dicey classical/middle age DoWs.

The best play comes when you pick tile improvements based on that site vs the rest of your land and overall game strategy/plans. Cottages are a piece of the puzzle, no more or less.

Don't forget that FIN changes the returns of cottages sharply.

 

[stopstopp]

at all the meanings of SE

 

[Gumbolt]

Cottages!

If you go for a cottaged capital.

Building cottages does help!! It needs to reach a good size come 1ad/1000ad and it needs to be working cottages if you intend to run bur civic. If you have a low food capital with lots of grassland irrigating a few grassland helps early growth. They can be cottaged later on. (Granary also for early faster growth)

A size 10-14 capital working 10+ cottages can soon help you rake in 90+ beakers a turn with library/academy and other multipliers. Add on buraecracy civic and you soon have a strong capital.

This is perhaps why people don't run their GP farm in their capital. Don't be afraid to move your capital at times if it is clear another site is better suited.

Deciding specialist or cottage ecomomy is a difficult decision. One that has been debated over heavily on here. Mix of both can work. I think long term cottages have a bigger payoff. That being said abusing great people to bulb down the tech tree is useful.

Best thing is to post a game or look at completed games on forum or mid game saves on here.

 

[Mutineer]

Main problem of cottage economy is production.
Basically you can compensate for that by getting mass early production form chopping.
Cottage cities will grow slow, that make negative effects of chopping less (Health issue, Number of improved ties you need to have), so you can you more workers turns for chopping.

That basically mean playing the map, as that will perform well if you have space alone forested grassland rivers for example.

 

[ahcos]

Main problem of cottage economy is production.

So is a SE, or am i overlooking smth here?


@topic: use a combined economy first, a mix of SE and CE. imo there's almost no sense in "restricted" econs, means: in economies focusing on just one aspect. just as you'll need great persons so that your commerce can be converted to maximum research (academy!) you'll need some commerce to pay the bills, although this can be achieved by using merchant specialists even though you might not want those GMs as GPs after all...

for the time your cottages grow you'll need some specialists anyway to maximize research, so don't be too restricted about the economy. the good thing about cottages is that they pay for theirselves foodwise (as long as built on grassland), so you can work more cottages then you could feed specialists. ofc it's about happiness and health aswell.

just feed some specialists in one city while letting grow the cottages in the other city, and then switch over to cottages after the cottages have matured.
imo you'll only be falling behind if you're focussing on one aspect too much - personally, i hardly had games where i could get along with a SE alone.

 

[hal08]

Riverside cottage capital + bur + academy + oxford = great research. Depending on the situation, the capital is often the only city you will need to build any cottages in, but often an additional riverside cottaged city is helpful. Or if you are isolated, or plan to stay peaceful for a time, you may opt for more cottage cities. Just don't make the mistake of cottaging all of your cities just so that you feel you are running a "cottage economy".

For example in my current game I cottaged my capital extensively, and to support my rex, dropped a few cottages in other cities that ended up being prod or farm/whipping cities. But that's it; everything else is farms/mines/windmills. I am currently mass whipping cuir/cavs to swallow up my neighbors' land. Once I have taken my continent I will re-evaluate and most likely build some more cottages depending on the land/cities/buildings that I conquered. I.E. if my neighbor has a nice city with plenty of cottages and/or academy, well that city is probably going to build more cottages. If I plan on going emancipation and warring late game or going space race, then for sure I am building more cottages in appropriate cities while still keeping enough production cities w/ farms/windmills/workshops/mines/watermills. Playing as financial in this game I will probably favor windmill/watermills a bit more than usual.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So is a SE, or am i overlooking smth here?


@topic: use a combined economy first, a mix of SE and CE. imo there's almost no sense in "restricted" econs, means: in economies focusing on just one aspect. just as you'll need great persons so that your commerce can be converted to maximum research (academy!) you'll need some commerce to pay the bills, although this can be achieved by using merchant specialists even though you might not want those GMs as GPs after all...

for the time your cottages grow you'll need some specialists anyway to maximize research, so don't be too restricted about the economy. the good thing about cottages is that they pay for theirselves foodwise (as long as built on grassland), so you can work more cottages then you could feed specialists. ofc it's about happiness and health aswell.

just feed some specialists in one city while letting grow the cottages in the other city, and then switch over to cottages after the cottages have matured.
imo you'll only be falling behind if you're focussing on one aspect too much - personally, i hardly had games where i could get along with a SE alone.

Spec cities can be whipped in emergencies if you are still in slavery. In caste, specs are indeed just as foul for production as cottages and specialized hammer cities reign in both.

The opportunity cost of rushing infrastructure is different in each case too by the way. If you REALLY want to play optimally and take your time, every single thing you put in the queue and whether you hurry it should be justified as best among all alternatives. Same goes for worker tile improvements - where, when, and why. There's not going to be an easy answer for this, if there were it would be a shallow game.

 

[iggymnrr]

Help! I think I've forgotten how to run a cottage economy.

Build worker. Tech pottery. Have worker build cottages.

 

[george547]

Thanks for the replies, everybody. The jist of what I've gotten from all these replies is that "economy" should be run on a city-by-city basis, not an empire-wide one. Which makes sense, it'd be dumb to try and run specialists when all you have is grassland and perhaps one food resource in your city's fat cross. On the other hand, that kind of land is quite suitable for cottaging.

So in a large empire later in the game, I could reasonably expect to have more than one specialist-oriented research city, and also more than one cottage-oriented (or would we call it commerce-oriented?) research city.

I just have a few more questions.

-Let's say we have a city with all grasslands in its fat cross. First off, this city will grow exceptionally slowly once the population gets just a little high--is that just something we have to deal with? Also, do we cottage every square? If we do, where does this city's production come from? Should we reduce the city's maximum size it can support by food to build some workshops?

-It seems to me that multiple cities doing research using specialists would result in fewer great people being generated, in absolute terms, over time than one city producing each new great person would. Is this true...? And if so, is it still a wise decision to have more than one specialist-oriented research city/great person farm? I would think it would be, because the city would still be producing all that research, the only difference would be the great people.

 

[jwez11007]

@george547
To your first question those are judgment calls you have to make. It does little good to boost a city's growth with farms if your happy cap is too low to support additional cottages that soon. That said most cities pre-bio should probably have at least one food resource in their BFC even if it's only a farmed Flood plain. There are many ways to generate production on grasslands near the end of the renaissance(watermills and workshops being some of my favorite), but in the early game usually farms and slavery are the way to go. Also if this city is acquired later in the game don't always assume a grassland city would be best as a cottage city. Once workshops are viable (two of either caste, guilds, or chem) any flatland city can be easily turned into a powerful production city. Of course this is all situational (are you in caste or eman?; are you at war or is this turning into a peaceful space race?)At the end of the day there is no right answer...try them all and see what you like best.

To your second question about spreading out GP generation there is a convincing argument in the war academy: game mechanics section supporting the concentration of your GP generation in one city with National epic. Again there are always exceptions for example it might be better to generate GPs in a secondary farm early in the game while attempting for some wonders in your GP farm or once Nat park is opened up looking to pop one or two from forest preserve generated specialists. Here however it is almost always best to task one city ASAP with all your generation of GPs. If you're uncomfortable with maths, take my word for it (or rather the person who took the time to write a convincing argument). Otherwise look at the analysis in the war academy to convince yourself.

 

[Cusanus]

-It seems to me that multiple cities doing research using specialists would result in fewer great people being generated, in absolute terms, over time than one city producing each new great person would. Is this true...?

In absolute terms?
No, that's not true.

If you have more than one city producing GPP's, you are usually wasting some of them, but you still get at least the same number of GP's in the end.

 

[drlake]

In absolute terms?
No, that's not true.

If you have more than one city producing GPP's, you are usually wasting some of them, but you still get at least the same number of GP's in the end.

To add to this, having multiple cities running specialists offers the possibility of a "surge" in great people, where you pop out at least 2-3 in relatively rapid succession. That isn't going to happen if you have a single GP farm.

 

[hal08]

-Let's say we have a city with all grasslands in its fat cross. First off, this city will grow exceptionally slowly once the population gets just a little high--is that just something we have to deal with? Also, do we cottage every square? If we do, where does this city's production come from? Should we reduce the city's maximum size it can support by food to build some workshops?

If the city is all grasslands and no food sources there are a couple different ways to utilize it:

1. Farm the entire place (may have to wait for CS) and use it as a whipping post to make infrastructure, units, missionaries, etc. Later on you can workshop/watermill as necessary for prod once whipping is no longer worthwhile (caste/emancipation, workshop/watermill upgrades, or larger population and happy cap).

2. With a higher happy cap you can farm 4+ tiles and cottage the rest. The farms allow it to grow into cottages quicker as well as allow whipping of basic infracture, granary being the most important building, and then monument if necessary. A library and courthouse can come later, but some veteran posters might say libr/courth should take a backseat to cottage growth.

3. You could farm most tiles to run specialists as a secondary GP farm, or simply to get research under rep. Biology would supercharge the city. This is a versatile city that can whip away its specialists in an emergency, quickly whip building to unlock national wonder (oxford). At any time you could refer to *1* and make a nice production city.

It took me awhile to learn using the whip and farms appropriately, but once I got a grip of the possibilities of utilizing food and farms, I became much more effective.